PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Dec 02 - 07:56 PM

It is pronounced Serne, sounds like burn.

The elected member of West Dorset District referred to we, when talking about having to take enforcement action, which would have been against the wishes, I would suspect of just about everyone in this district.

All this silliness is taking place and being justified on behalf of those people. How much longer are we going to put up with our elected representitives and ther paid employees telling us what we are going to get? When they should be doing as we tell them?

For if your Council's wish is to prevent mummers plays, case law, as it stands will allow them to do this, but equally - they can enable these events if they wish to or are forced by you, their electors to do so............The choice is yours.

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 06:58 AM

The dates for the 2nd Weymouth Folk Festival this year are 9th - 11th May.
Top names already confirmed include Oysterband, The Yetties and Martin
Simpson.
Keep an eye on the website for more information on artists performing.
www.weymouth.gov.uk

Now I find myself in very difficult position. I would really like for this
to be a success and for you all to come and enjoy Weymouth and Portland.

However, Weymouth and Portland Borough Council are organising/funding this
festival and most of the events take place in their theatre.

This council have used their broad interpretation of the 'two in a bar'
exemption to prevent an unpaid folk sessions and are just about to use it
against another long-running session. They have also insisted on a licensing
condition that banned Morris dancing.

I have been trying for two years to get the councillors to change their
current definition of the word 'performer'. A change to a narrower
definition, open to them, that would enable these events, not to be classed
as public entertainment and be in line with Human Rights legislation, but to
no avail.

They do not see this as an important enough issue and are under the
impression that few people care.

Now whether you come and support this council's Folk Festival must be a
matter for you. But whether you intend to come or not, can I ask that you
make your views known to the Chief Executive Tom Grainger as to how best he
can ensure future support from the folk community for their folk festival?

[e-mail]

And copied to the local paper.

Dorset Evening Echo newsdesk@dorsetecho

Many thanks

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: AggieD
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 09:43 AM

Have sent my tirade in your support. It will be interesting to see if I get a reply.

Do you seriously want to support a Council run event? Surely the best way to get your own back is if no-one turns up. I know that it may seem that you will be cutting off your nose etc. but it may be a good way to show the council that the folk community does have some clout?

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 01:58 PM

Many thanks.

You have to understand that many local folk will already be working hard on this event, and I have no wish to see these honest efforts come to nothing. So I am not asking for folk not to support these efforts to bring a folk festival here, just to make their views known, to the council and to the local paper.

If those views are that they will not support a local authority with such an uncaring attitude and will not attend (or perform) until this attitude changes, that is the way it will be. The local folk will just have to accept these honest views and maybe then they will also put some pressure on the council? But that is up to them to decide, what is more important to them. Being true to their priciples or having a council funded festival.

I am supposed to be leading a session this year as part of the festival. If the council do not move and press home this latest enforcement, I will probably be starting an ALT festival, on Portland on these same dates. You will all be invited and made most welcome.

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: Snuffy
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 04:35 PM

What, even singers?

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge (cookie and format C)
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 06:44 PM

Nice to see EFDSS putting head above the parapet.

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 07:02 PM

A folk festival without informal sessions and singarounds, and dancing in the streets isn't a folk festival. Given that there are a lot of real folk festivals around, and it's impossible to get to more than a fraction of them, I can't see that there will be much reason to go to Weymouth that weekend.

Looking at the Folk Roots list for the equivalent weekend this year, it looks as though there won't be any shortage of alternatives. Weymouth looks a pleasant enough place - but then so does St Neots, for example, where they never seem to have these kinds of hassles from the council...

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 09:27 PM

I am quite sure that the council's officers will be on their very best behaviour for the duration of the festival.

But it is a bit like putting on ones Sunday best. A bit misleading to judge from this get-up, what you will be wearing on the following Monday.

Yes Snuffy, even singers. For we can have as many types of sessions as required. We don't have to put all flavours of jam into the same jar, do we?

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 06:06 PM

I wonder how the St Neots licensing officers would enable the activity, given a situation where they had been made aware that a mumming play or a session was taking place on unlicensed premises? Perhaps they could be asked and the answer provided to Weymouth and Portland?

I would like to thank those who have sent a message to the council and copied this to the local paper.

Please keep them coming, for already as a result of these, the local paper want to do a piece on the petition and on the Bill.

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 01:27 PM

Spoke to the paper today and had my photo taken for the article. I will let you know when/if it appears.

The reporter said that they had received lots of messages already and that folk seemed to think it was WPBC that had prevented the mummers play. I pointed out that given the same circumstances and givn their policy, they would have acted exactly the same as West Dorset.

If we can keep it up, it may make a big difference. If we can get a change of policy here, it certainly will influence every other local authority.

[e-mail]

And copied to the local paper.

Dorset Evening Echo newsdesk@dorsetecho

Many thanks

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 06:13 AM

West Dorset District Council who prevented the mumming play, are Billy Bragg's local council.

Can someone give him a nudge please?

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: breezy
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 10:53 AM

How can one complain about something that has not taken place?
So who is the 'Tell Tale'? any evidence.?
I feel sorry for the good mummers people of C A. so why not get a PEL for a day of music to coincide with the council sponsored fest, and go for heavy leaf-letting and ask for voluntary contributions or a subscription to join the 'society for the upholding of traditions' for a PEL fund to be held by the mummers and for such PEL to be obtained in advance for future events, if the pub's turn-over benefits then negotiate with local publicans for them to make a suitable donation.
Go for it dont let the buggers grind you down, especially the sad case who first complained.
I faxed my M.P., have you?

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 11:13 AM

That sounds very like colluding with a law that needs to be overturned. Far better to go ahead with performing and challenge the buggers.

That can't be done in poubs, because the publicans are at risk, and are unlikely to go along with it, but in the street or elsewhere it's still a breach of the law, and that's where to do it

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Dec 02 - 01:50 PM

BBC on pub carols tradition - catch it

Q;You couldn't turn a blind eye to it?

A;We couldn't turn a blind eye to it.

Q;Do you recognise though, would you have preferred to have turned a blind eye to it?

A;Err, I'm don't turn a blind eye to any situation that could put the public at risk.

That was Jill Haines, chairwoman of the West Dorset District Council, interviewed on BBC Radio 4's Today programme 20th December. She was trying to justify why the council had prevented a traditional mumming play, in two local pubs, that did not have Public Entertainment Licenses (PELs).

These two pubs, and many others have been hosting these plays for all the years that the law, the council claims is preventing them now, has been in existence!

The current entertainment licensing legislation that allows the above hypocrisy, is bad legislation. It is due to be replaced by equally bad if not worse legislation and even more hypocrisy.

Only 5% of licensed premises currently hold PELs. This is the only way that any live musical activity, that is not specifically exempt from the requirement, can legally take place.

Council's claim (like the above example) that they do not turn a blind eye, and for them to do so would be not only illegal but would place the public at risk.

We all know of many activities that would be considered by these local licensing authorities as public entertainment, and which is taking place in the 95% of premises that do not have PELs.

It is quite clear that licensing authorities are in fact turning a blind eye and as a result, they are ignoring the law and placing the public at risk. A fact, if made public, that will badly embarrass both them and the Government who are championing local authorities as being safe to take responsibility for all licensing under the Bill.

Government are bad enough by pressurising the local authorities for funds, but it is the latter who have made such mess of things, with many examples of patchy and petty enforcement, by placing unreasonable conditions and using the licensing regime to raise revenue. Not that there is any evidence of this reflected in the Bill.

But it is the demonstrable fact, that local authorities have been turning the blind eye, that is the 'Achilles heel' and does present many opportunities for us to demonstrate the poor quality of the current legislation and of the new. For if their defence will be that they do not have the resources to find all unlicensed entertainment, the question must be posed how they are to carry out their proposed increased responsibilities any better, and why we should trust them to do this?

It is difficult to exploit this blind eye issue and expose local councils for not following the law and placing the public at risk, without placing at risk both the activity and the licensee, however.

It really is the fault of councils who just turn a blind eye (until the point they claim they cannot), that give the current legislation a respectability it does not deserve and have made changing it so difficult.

This is most probably the last year annual events like mumming plays and in particular the pub carols in south Yorkshire and Derbyshire, will be taking place under the current legislation and these events at best, face an uncertain future under the new Bill.

The pubs that stage these annual events without PELs, but do not hold any other musical activities that would be risked, can now be safely used (preferably with the licensee's permission), as very effective evidence of the complete sham that the current legislation is. And of the totally bogus defence made for the continuing of blanket entertainment licensing, made by both Government and local authorities.

As there is now very little to be lost (only in the pubs I refer to), I feel the opportunity must be used before it is too late! For the fact remains that these activities are just as illegal in South Yorkshire and Derbyshire and the public made just as unsafe, by the councils involved tuning a blind eye, as anywhere else.

Unless these councils are prepared to stand up publicly and state the opposite? Or our current Home Secretary Mr Blunkett is going to explain why the pub carol events he attended were not illegal 'raves'?

Perhaps it could be arranged that some journalist could ask him?

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 04:04 AM

The following from Hamish Birchall

The creators of the none in a bar Licensing Bill are stuck in the 18th-century. The Bill is constructed as if 21st century safety, noise and crime and disorder legislation had never happened. The maximum penalty of a £20,000 fine and six months in prison for an unlicensed performance of live music is greater than for a serious breach of health and safety, or noise, legislation (which does not carry a potential custodial sentence). This was one reason why existing PEL legislation was rubbished in Parliament earlier this year as 'archaic and just plain daft.' But, unbelievably, the government has just confirmed that the penalty would continue to apply to carol singers:

"People singing carols in a supermarket or a railway station and so on would need to be covered by a premises licence or a temporary event notice." [Lord McIntosh, government whip, 1st Committee stage debate of the Licensing Bill, House of Lords, 12 December 2002]

Criminalising live music without a licence was an 18th century innovation. It was a crime and disorder measure, applying only to pubs in Westminster, at a time when there was no unified police force for London. Public safety and noise legislation was rudimentary or non-existent.

The Bill is a gift to jobsworths. Rest assured local authorities will enforce 'none in a bar' if this Bill is passed without amendment. Licensees, and musicians, will be treated as criminals where there is no safety risk and no noise complaint.

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: AggieD
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 08:36 AM

Well we managed our music session in the pub before & after the traditional Boxing Day Mummers Play & Morris dance in Silsoe, Beds. Not a council jobsworth in sight. One of the men tried announcing the concerns re the PEL, but as usual the general public seemed to turn a deaf ear.

Still we'll all have to keep on fighting as best we can.

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 05:55 PM

Dorset Evening Echo 27 December 2002.

Music enthusiasts blast council in public entertainment licences protest

Boycott threat to folk festival

By Matt Pitman [e-mail]

Music lovers are threatening to boycott a major festival in a row over entertainment licences.

Enthusiasts are set to stay away from next year's Weymouth Folk Festival because they are angry at rules which means a licence is needed for more than two people providing entertainment in pubs.

Local campaigners helped organise a national petition protesting about the rule and more than 10,000 people signed within a week.

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?2inabar&1

And they have also bombarded Weymouth and Portland Borough Council with complaints that folk performers are being unfairly treated, and hit out at new proposals which they fear could mean making music in public a crime.

They claim that the council has rigidly implemented the rules and done nothing to support local campaigners' attempts to address the problems.

Many now say that intend to boycott next year's folk festival, due to be staged between May 9 and 11, where top folk names Oysterband and The Yetties are set to perform.

The row comes after The Wessex Morris Men were forced to stage their traditional Christmas mumming play in the streets of Cerne Abbas because West Dorset District Council officers insisted a licence was needed for them to perform inside.

Roger Gall from Portland, who has enjoyed folk music for more than 50 years and started the petition said:
"The situation in both Weymouth and Portland and West Dorset is crazy. People don't want these activities banned."

He added "I would have liked to have seen the folk festival go well, but many people's attitude is that the council only seem interested in folk music for two days because their attitude towards licensing is unsupportive for the rest of the year."

In a series of letters to the borough council folk music enthusiasts have said they will stay away from next year's event.

Mary Humpheys, from Ely in Cambridgeshire, said: "I would not consider coming to the festival and I am certain that many of my performing colleagues would also be of the same mind."

Peter Skinner, who has been a professional folk musician for 40 years , blasted the council, saying: "By not supporting these traditions and showing your support to ridiculous draconian measures you are abusing your position and only using folk music to make money."

Peter Cripps, an officer of England's Glory Ladies Morris, said they were considering staying away from the town's folk festival.

Tom Grainger, borough council chief executive, defended the authority's handling of the situation.

He said, "The folk festival was a great success last year and we hope people support the event next year. There's no suggestion that people's enjoyment of folk music will be spoilt by any unreasonable level of implementation over entertainment licences."

Tom Grainger
[e-mail]

Copy to

echo letters
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 06:08 PM

"There's no suggestion that people's enjoyment of folk music will be spoilt by any unreasonable level of implementation over entertainment licences."

That's an interesting concept - especially given all that same council has said in the past, to the effect that it doesn't have the power to interpret the law in a way that is not unreasonable. And wasn't it Mr Grainger who said that?

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 06:19 PM

That and many other unhelpful things, he was also unaware until I informed him, that his council were even organising the first folk festival!

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 06:27 PM

Well at least one pub got round it yesterday by making it a ticket only, private party day and inviting the Mummers to join in.

If only recorded sound is exempt, how about if each carried a tape recorder with their parts on them... they could play them and mime.... ?

(just trying to inject a little humour into a terribly serious subject... I've signed the petition, joined the demo's and harangued my local MP.....)

LTS

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 06:28 PM

Er - does that quote not mean (if properly construed) that the council can be as unreasonable as it likes and no-one will care?

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 08:15 PM

http://www.thisisdorset.net/dorset/weymouth/news/WEYMOUTH_NEWS_NEWS3.html

You can read and respond to the story on the above site.

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 04:54 AM

In my experience (10 years total working for Local Government, father had nearly the same) they will be as unreasonable as they want to be. The council named above is the same council that made a man redundant 2 weeks before his 60th birthday, so they could save the long service increment and thus increased redundancy pay they'd have to award him if he'd been employed by them for 10 years.

They are not spoilsports, they are genuinely trying to stop people being hurt in public buildings - because we as a community are becoming more liable to sue, and they want to cover their own asses. If they say 'they were there against regulations' then they are untouchable.

The fact that the guidelines are no guide at all, the interpretation of intent is at the discretion of people who probably have no idea of the actual circumstance, and 'reasonable' is at the interpretation of the same people, means that they have Auchweis to stop what ever they wish. Do not for one moment think that they will stop everything equally. If it is making money for the council you can bet your last Poll Tax bill that they will not stop it.

LTS

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 05:51 AM

http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/trg/SCoFF/weymouth.htm

The above is a report presented by the officers and endorsed by the members of Weymouth and Portland Borough Council. You can judge for yourself how reasonable and how genuinely concerned this council were about the public's safety.

This council were also responsible for starting proceedings, that resulted in a 70 year old lady being sent to prison for feeding the birds in her garden.

Liz, after two years of trying, I do not disagree with you about the size of the problems involved in challenging local authorities, but you do seem to make even the attempt of trying, to sound futile.

I know that, if enough pressure is placed upon this local authority, and this time, in the way of E mail messages to them, copied to the local paper, we can get a result! A result that will
affect every other local authority in England and Wales. Please help?

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Dec 02 - 07:12 AM

From the council report linked to above.

Human Rights Considerations
5.1 Mr Gall has argued that by requiring the premises at which sessions take place to obtain a PEL Council officers are interfering unlawfully with his right to freedom of expression contained in Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights.

As has been explained to Mr Gall, the right to freedom of expression is not an absolute right under the Convention. By applying the relevant licensing the Council has imposed conditions and restrictions on Mr Gall's rights which are legal, necessary and proportionate in the in the interests of public safety, control of nuisance and the prevention of crime and disorder.

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Dec 02 - 09:26 AM

The council named above is the same council that made a man redundant 2 weeks before his 60th birthday, so they could save the long service increment and thus increased redundancy pay they'd have to award him if he'd been employed by them for 10 years.

That's Weymouth or West Dorset? It'd be useful to know, because, regardless of what they do about folk music, the people who did something like that deserve to be pilloried, shunned and humiliated.

Give us the details, Liz, and maybe we can have a Song Challenge about it.

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 05:15 AM

Opinion in the daily Telegraph 30 December 2002

By next Christmas, carol singers will be criminals
By Billy Bragg
(Filed: 30/12/2002)


A sense of wonder and excitement fills the air as the earnest participants shuffle into view, their movements constricted by their elaborate animalistic face masks. Here, among the tombs of the ancestors, beneath the honoured names of ancient warriors, they solemnly assemble before the elders.

The whole community has gathered in this place of spirits for the annual telling of their most sacred story. The village headman steps forwards to address the enthralled audience.

"Welcome to St Mary's Church and this year's Nativity play," says Mr Powell, headmaster of our local school. "As some of you parents will know, we alternate between a pantomime in the school hall next door and a Nativity here in the church. Last year, we had a panto with the older children, so this year we have the Year Ones and Twos giving us their Nativity play."

The headmaster picks up his guitar and the children begin to sing Away in a Manger, each child dressed as one of the barnyard animals that attended Christ's birth. Every parent present gets a lump in the throat.

Here in west Dorset, the festive season is the busiest time for community traditions. The village players have rehearsed their pantomime, the choir its carol concerts and the mummers have dusted down their costumes and recalled their lines. Dorset has a strong mumming tradition and the village of Symondsbury near Bridport is felt by many to be the best example that has survived. I recently travelled up the valley to Litton Cheney to witness a performance.

Thorner's School was founded in 1690 and, as schoolchildren and parents huddled in on a dark winter's afternoon, it seemed a fitting place to see the Symondsbury Mumming Play. In common with all mumming plays, it features St George, who fights and slays his enemies, only to ask the Doctor to bring them back to life.

More characters appear, are killed and revived, and the play concludes with the singing of the Travels. A holly bough is brought in and the lady of the house - in this case, the Thorner's headmistress - is asked to tie a ribbon to it. The whole thing lasts about 45 minutes and is conducted in a knockabout style, with many asides to the audience.

The true meaning of the play is lost, even to those who perform it. The death and resurrection theme may allude to midwinter solstice celebrations, in which the sun is symbolically "reborn" as days begin to get longer. Whatever its original function, the Mummers Play nowadays serves to remind us of the pagan elements that linger just beneath the shiny surface of the modern Christmas.

The understanding of the play is much less important than the performing of it. Like all community traditions, mumming relies on continuity in order to survive and flourish. These yearly keeps may seem risible to some, but they are a means of bringing people together in an increasingly disjointed society.

The mummers, the Nativity play, the panto, the carol concert all provide opportunities for newcomers to meet their fellow villagers and appreciate the age-old values of the local community.

Yet all these activities are under threat from the licensing Bill that is currently passing through Parliament. While dealing chiefly with the sale of alcohol, the Bill seeks to amend the regulations regarding the provision of entertainment. Almost all public music-making, singing, dancing and acting becomes a criminal offence unless first licensed by the local authority. Even private performance is caught, if it is to raise money for charity, or the performers are paid, or a charge is made for admission.

The maximum penalty for hosting an unlicensed performance is a £20,000 fine and six months in prison.

The catch-all wording of the Bill seeks to criminalise all manner of hitherto legitimate activities. It defines "premises" as "any place". Thus, public demonstrations of musical instruments in a shop require a licence, as would a rendition of Happy Birthday in a restaurant. Making merry will be licensable not just in pubs and clubs, but also in private homes and gardens, in churches, schools and community halls.

If enacted without amendment, the Bill would have a devastating effect on our community traditions here in west Dorset. Churches are exempt only if the music is incidental to a religious service. For the purposes of the Act, our school Nativity was a play and therefore requires a licence.

If any members of the school band wish to form a group, their rehearsal space will have to be licensed, too. The WI will be faced with a huge increase in costs if it hopes to stage the village pantomime next year. The carollers will be confined to licensed premises. Even carol singing in shopping centres or railway stations would be illegal without a licence.

The mummers are also under threat from the scope of this legislation. Their brief season traditionally ends on New Year's Day with a performance at the Ilchester Arms in their home village of Symondsbury. Soon the landlord could be risking imprisonment unless he can afford a licence for such entertainment.

Most galling of all is the fact that this law will not apply in Scotland, despite the fact that other noise and safety legislation is UK-wide. Provided music is secondary to the main business, it is not licensable north of the Border. Scottish musicians will remain free to gather together in bars and clubs and hold impromptu "sessions". Although the Welsh will be subject to the Act, they have their own national assembly to protect their community traditions.

Here in England, however, we have no one to speak up for the Symondsbury Mummers and the countless other amateur players whose annual observances have ensured the continuity of our English traditions. For all of their dedication and commitment, they may soon find themselves squeezed out of existence by over-zealous bureaucracy. It seems that St George, for so long the victorious hero of the Mumming Play, is about to be defeated.

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 05:23 AM

There have now been quite a lot of letters in the Guardian, the Times and the Telegraph (for US readers, these are the main national 'serious' newspapers.) What, if anything, has been in the Sun, Mirror, etc? (i.e. the mass sales papers)

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 05:26 AM

It is a shame that government are being heavy handed, yet passing the buck to local councils to deal with. Had it stayed a national issue, it could have been argued that
"Great Britain is a suitable place for the playing of traditional music, dancing of traditional dance (and possibly Morris Dancing) and presenting of historical plays, ;
Can we apply for a PEL for Great Britain please?"

Nigel

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 02:08 PM

There have now been quite a lot of letters in the Guardian, the Times and the Telegraph (for US readers, these are the main national 'serious' newspapers.) What, if anything, has been in the Sun, Mirror, etc? (i.e. the mass sales papers)

Very little, .......a small piece in the Sun, is about all so far.

There may be hope. Just by luck, on the front page of the same Daily Telegraph that Billy Bragg's opinion appears in, Hamish Birchall assures me there is a photo of him. He just happened to be in Brighton and was photographed on the beach watching a rusting Victorian relic, crumbling in the modern age. This was the old West Pier but maybe it is also a sign that the days of other rusting Victorian relics, like entertainment licensing, are also numbered?

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 05:10 PM

http://www.weymouth.gov.uk/main.asp?svid=7&svaid=187&svapid=1581

Details of the folk festival on Weymouth and Portland Borough Council's website.

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 12:01 PM

Letter to the editor, published in the Dorset Evening Echo 01 January 2003. [e-mail]

Perhaps they will listen to another festival organiser who is also a councillor?

Folk fans deserve warmer welcome.

I am afraid Tom Grainger, chief executive of Weymouth and Portland Borough Council, is sadly mistaken if he thinks his council's over-zealous enforcement of outdated laws relating to live music venues will not affect the council's own folk festival in 2003.

One of the most important elements of any folk festival is the informal music session in a local pub.

Traditional singers and musicians, along with traditional morris dancers, provide the bedrock support for any such event.

Sadly, it seems that such singers and dance sides are not welcome in Weymouth and Portland, where the council has gained a reputation for ruthlessly enforcing the so-called 'two in a bar ' rule to prevent informal sessions taking place, even when the council has not received a single complaint about the (unamplified) music.

Weymouth and Portland is almost the only council in Britain to be adopting such an attitude.

As a result several hundred folk enthusiasts who would normally have flocked to the Weymouth and Portland Festival may instead boycott the event.

It seems ironic that one council department is spending thousands of pounds of council tax payers money on promoting a festival which another council department is effectively under-mining.

It seems that one side of the council doesn't know or doesn't care what the other side of the council is doing.

As a festival organiser and elected councillor myself in Hampshire, I would be screaming blue murder if my local authority was wasting council taxpayers money in this way.

The council is paying good money to book some first-class acts for the formal festival. Sadly, many of the people who would have enjoyed seeing them will not visit Weymouth and Portland so long as the informal music sessions are banned by the council

Councillor Peter Chegwyn
Gosport
Hampshire

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 01:45 PM

I had been hoping that the Cerne Abbas giant might get the story a bit of attention in the Sun. Maybe if it had been a Cerne Abbas giantess instead it might have done the trick.

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 08:12 PM

They make a nice Cerne Abbas Giant wallclock locally.

The giant's outstanding feature forms the seconds hand, whirling around at some speed. I can't see a giantess clock having quite the same tasteful effect.*Smiles*

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: Nemesis
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 12:06 PM

Perhaps someone can bring the giant along on 27th January 1pm Parliament Square to the demonstration?

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 01:22 PM

http://www.unc.edu/~debest/monster/cerne.htm

Can't really go around digging up scheduled ancient monuments, especially as this would mean digging up half the hillside!

There are already plenty of long standing members in and around Paliament Square. Some of them even bigger 'dicks'!

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: clansfolk
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 04:14 PM

Weymouth Council appear to be putting the block on Folk Music sessions and dancing but are still happy to take money for Festival tickets?

I have emailed the major artists at this years festival with details of the incidents - Maybe if they recieved more emails they may make a stand, presuming they remember who made them "major artists" and how most of them started out.

I certainly won't be atending Weymouth this year or any other festival that is run by councils who close sessions with one hand and grab ticket fees with the other - how about YOU??????


Pete

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: Nemesis
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 08:16 PM

I'm sure a metaphorical paper version of the Giant would be more than accurate..

Just on a placard surely would at least focus media attention?   

ooooooooooooh, ok I'll see what I can do ......

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: clansfolk
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 04:33 PM

Further to my emails to Artists playing Weymouth.....

From:- Bonny Sartin of the Yetties...............

Hi Pete,
Thanks for your e mail about the problems down here. No one from Wessex has mentioned this to me but I'll do some research and some stiring with the council if I feel I can do any good. It may be best just to let it die down, the official involved may have had a rap over the knuckles by now. I just don't know. Certainly we have had no problems at all so far.

All the best,

Bonny Sartin   

The Yetties
Any comments with local problems to the above????

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 05:51 AM

There have now been quite a lot of letters in the Guardian, the Times and the Telegraph (for US readers, these are the main national 'serious' newspapers.) What, if anything, has been in the Sun, Mirror, etc? (i.e. the mass sales papers)

I woke up with the answer to how we get into the Sun etc. We need the writers of TV 'soaps' like Eastenders to include licensing in their story lines first.

Then the tabloids and all the magazines will splash the story all over their front pages. How about?

Peggy organises a good old cockney singalong and 'knees-up' around the Queen Vic's piano and is reported to the council (by the night club), for oganising an unlicensed public entertainment............

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 06:49 PM

The following exchange is a year old, but nothing appears to change much in the workings of Weymouth and Portland Borough Council.

From: "Tim Walker" [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 6:12 PM

Dear Mr Grainger

The English Folk Dance and Song Society is the country's premier advocacy organisation in the field of folk related activities and represents a membership numbering 5000 individual members and affiliated clubs. In total we represent in excess of 25000 individuals around the country who are actively involved in folk music and folk dancing.

In addition to our national education activities (some of which take place in your borough), we also house the national archive of folk related materials (books, manuscripts, recordings, photographic and films resources, research papers, costume and artefacts) in the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library here in north London. This multimedia archive is the largest and most diverse resource of English cultural materials and documents in the world and many of the materials cannot be found elsewhere. As such we can genuinely be considered the country's authority on English folk culture.

I have been following, with great interest and concern, Mr Roger Gall's search for an equitable solution to the PEL issues that have marred the activities of the folk sessions at The Cove Public House and would like to register the EFDSS's support of Mr Gall in his persistent questioning of Weymouth and Portland Borough Council in this matter.

It is the view of the English Folk Dance and Song Society that, in cases where there are no registered noise complaints and where no hazard to public health and safety can be identified, Local Government Authorities should responsibly put all practical effort and consideration into reading, interpreting and giving effect to the Entertainment Licensing Legislation in such a way as to actively encourage and promote locally organised, participative, cultural activities for the benefit, through richness of experience, of the community at large.

As we understand there to be a lack of clarity on the term 'performer' and a degree of discretion on your part with regard to fee structures, the EFDSS would welcome constructive discourse with WPBC on this matter and would invite either yourself or one of your colleagues to contact us either by email or on the telephone number below at your convenience in order that a non-confrontational way forward may be identified.

Yours sincerely Tim Walker

From: "Tom Grainger" [e-mail]
To: "Tim Walker" [e-mail]
Cc: "Sue Allen" [e-mail]; "Ian Locke"
[e-mail]
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 9:58 AM

Thank you for your enquiry. The reality is that the live music scene in Weymouth & Portland is thriving. Also the there is no bar to live music at the Cove House Inn. The licensee has applied for and been granted a PEL. There is of course a view being expressed by other parties, including Mr Gall, that a PEL is not necessary under current legislation, for the kind of activities operated at the Cove House Inn.

It is not a view that is shared by the Council, nor from our research any other licensing authority. The matter has been debated widely and at length in this Council and has been considered by Councillors. There are no new points being added in any discussion and consequently the Council is no longer prepared to continue detailed discussion on the matter. Our view is that ultimately it is a matter of law, which would have to be tested in the courts, not one of policy or local interpretation. We have no wish to pursue the matter to the courts and I am sure neither does the licensee.

At least one party to the very detailed discussions that we have had does not accept this view and has therefore taken the matter up with the local government ombudsman, to whom we shall of course respond.

You mention a non confrontational way forward and local discretion on fees etc. Our view is that the present law is in need of reform and that is the best way forward in the longer term. In the meantime, our licensing staff will continue to work with musicians and licensees to try to ensure that the present law is applied fairly, sensibly and consistently.

The fee structure in Weymouth & Portland is realistic and not prohibitive and as I said at the start of this note the live music scene is thriving. It would be inappropriate for me to pass on third party comments, without their consent, but there is plenty of evidence to support the comments I have made in the previous sentence.

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 07:18 PM

The Times
January 13, 2003

Pensioner evicted for feeding the birds
By Simon de Bruxelles

A PENSIONER is to be evicted from her housing association flat because she refused to stop feeding the birds in the back garden.
For three years Barbara Simpson, 64, has attracted flocks of pigeons, sparrows and starlings to the block of flats where she lives by throwing bread out of her window. Her elderly neighbours complained that the hundreds of birds were a health hazard and exposed them to illness because of their droppings.

Anchor Housing Association, which owns the flats in Weymouth, Dorset, took out a court injunction last year to stop Mrs Simpson feeding the birds. It had even put a mesh up at her windows in an attempt to stop her feeding the birds.

The housing association took her to a county court to repossess her flat, but she was reprieved by the judge on condition that she agreed to stop feeding the birds.

After she returned from court she was filmed by a private investigator hired by the housing association pushing bread through the mesh as birds perched on the window sill.

The association reapplied for an eviction order at a county court, and a judge has now upheld the application, describing Mrs Simpson as "a thorough nuisance to her neighbours".

Mrs Simpson now has two weeks to leave her home and will have to find bed and breakfast accommodation.

This is the lady I referred to above. Weymouth and Portland Borough Council's officers were responsible for starting the process, 4 years ago that ended in this lady being sent to Holloway Prison. The council will now have to find a home for her and will no doubt continue to make her life a misery. Bed and breakfast will be the option as she is considered by our council to have made herself homeless.

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Jan 03 - 02:39 PM

Dorset Evening Echo 29 January 2003

Council letter pledges action over breaches in law.

Fresh warning over unlicensed shows
By James [e-mail]

Landlords and entertainers face a new warning over unlicensed performances after a morris dancing fiasco in Cerne Abbas.

West Dorset District Council, in a new letter to be sent out in response to inquiries, says it will investigate any breaches.

The move comes after pubs in Cerne Abbas were warned not to let the Wessex Morris Men perform inside because they do not have public entertainment licenses.

Bob Hanton, council corporate services manager, said that the traditional events such as morris dancing should be exempt from a licence. "It is not open to local authorities to arbitrarily decide that the legal requirement for a public entertainment does not apply to a particular type of entertainment, such as folk or traditional type events. Authorities have a duty to apply the legislation fairly and impartially."

The Wessex Morris men were forced to perform their Christmas mumming play in the street in December after the licensing swoop in December. They hit out at the licensing laws and an informer who tipped off the council after staging the drama inside pubs for the past 18 years.

The new development follows fears in Weymouth that musicians were being treated unfairly in the run-up to the town's folk festival. Now members of the district council will hear about the new letter at an appeals and licensing committee meeting today.

The letter emphasises that premises must have public entertainment licences if events are being staged by three or more people. Mr Hanton said in the letter: "Where it comes to the attention of the council that public entertainment is being provided without the benefit of a licence, the council will investigate the matter and if appropriate will take further action."

He added: "The legislation is not intended to ban any type of entertainment but rather to ensure that such events meet the relevant health and safety standards for the protection of the public."
ENDS

Are council officers conspiring together, against the public's interest, to ensure that singing from the same hymn-book? Do the following statements look familiar?

This from the 05/06/01 report, to the councillors of Weymouth and Portland Borough Council. "It is not open to the authority to disapply the legal requirements to hold a PEL in respect of one particular type of entertainment. This Authority has a duty to apply legislation fairly and impartially."

And from Weymouth and Portland Borough Council' Chief Executive's 23/12/02 letter to all councillors. "Where it comes to the attention of the Council that a public entertainment is being provided without the benefit of a Public Entertainment Licence on anything more than a one off, accidental basis the Council will intervene to explain and if necessary enforce licensing legislation."

In fact these two councils are following the officers of Oxford City Council. This council's elected members had instructed their officers to enable unpaid folk sessions as they did not consider these to be entertainment. However, their officers came back and told them that that they could not - this from a report to their members on 20/03/01. 18.

"It is not possible for the Council to have a policy of non-enforcement of the legislation especially in respect of one particular type of entertainment. Whilst each application for a PEL is considered on its own merits a uniform and fair approach must be adopted in respect of enforcement. The Council MUST NOT fetter its discretion in this way and would be open to challenge if it did. The test is whether or not public entertainment is taking place."

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jan 03 - 03:44 PM

"It is not possible for the Council to have a policy of non-enforcement of the legislation especially in respect of one particular type of entertainment. "

That really is a load of cobblers. Any organisation with a duty of law enforcement has coinsiderable leeway in deciding when to act and when not to act. The police do it all the time, as demonstrated with the easing up on cannabis, in advance of any change in the law.

And there are all kinds of totally crazy bits of law still on the statute book in all countries which are sytematically ignored. (Here is a site from America that lists various crazy laws that exist or have existed until recently in the States.)

Councillors who believe this kind of stuff from officers and go along with enforcing things they feel are wrong aren't fit to be councillors. Yes, there are limits on the freedom of a council, but they aren't as narrow as these councillors were given to believe. And chose to believe.

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: Mr Happy
Date: 29 Jan 03 - 08:21 PM

does this suggest a parallel with another 'silly bill' enacted in the USA in the 1920's: Prohibition! [of alcohol, in a significant number of states]

the federal govt. had its 'g' men to seek out underground drinking clubs known as 'speakeasys''& prosecute both the proprietors & customers.

sounds familiar, doesn't it? £20k fine for each landlord, proprietor, 'audience members' 'performers' + 3 months 'porridge'.

will all the folkies have to retreat to 'folkeasys'?   

the jazzers to 'jazzeasys', fledgling pop groups to 'popeasys' etc?

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 09:59 AM

Dear Sir or Madam:

LOCAL GOVERNMENT (MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS) ACT 1982
PUBLIC ENTERTAINMENT LICENCE

With regard to the recent discussions and media attention concerning traditional "folk entertainment", the council would like to re-iterate that under the current legislation, all events (including folk music) where public dancing, music or similar activity takes place and is performed by three or more people, regardless of whether an entry charge has been made, and whether organized or impromptu, a Public Entertainment Licence is required. This does not of course apply to a private function or an event within the bounds of a members only club.

Where it comes to the attention of the Council that public entertainment is being provided without the benefit of a licence, the Council will investigate the matter and if appropriate, will take further action.

The legislation is not intended to 'ban' any type of entertainment, but rather to ensure that such events meet the relevant Health and Safety standards for the protection of the public.

The new proposed licensing bill may clarify, confirm or indeed reform some aspects of this long-standing debate. However, until such time as new legislation is enacted the afore mentioned statement will continue to apply

Yours faithfully

R P Hanton LLb MBA
Corporate Services Manager

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 10:06 AM

WEST DORSET DISTRICT COUNCIL
    APPELAS AND LICENSING COMMITTEE – 30th January
    2003
    REPORT OF THE CORPORATE SERVICES MANAGER
    LICENSING OF TRADITIONAL EVENTS

    FOR INFORMATION
*   PURPOSE OF THE REPORT
*   To inform Members of the circumstances surrounding the
    recent publicity about the licensing of 'traditional' events,
    such as 'mumming plays'.
*   REPORT
*   Background
    On 17th December the Council received a complaint from
    a member of the public concerning a performance that was
    due to take place that evening at the Red Lion and New
    Inn pubs in Cerne Abbas.

    It was alleged that the Wessex Morris men were due to
    perform their 'mumming play' inside both of the pubs
    concerned. Both of the events had been advertised in the
    locality, although the Council's records showed that
    neither of the premises concerned were in possession of or
    had made an application for a public entertainment
    licence.

*   Developments
    An officer attended both of the pubs concerned before the
    performances took place in order to obtain more details.
    Based on the information provided, both landlords were
    informed that without the necessary licence, the planned
    entertainment, if performed inside the premises, would be
    illegal.

    Performances by the Wessex Morris men held during the
    summer are usually undertaken outside on the public
    highway – under the current legislation, such events do not
    require a licence. Advice was given to the landlords on the
    requirement for a licence and how to apply.

    In the event, the pub landlords concerned took the decision
    not to allow the Wessex Morris men to perform inside the
    pubs, and the performances were held outside the pubs
    instead.

    In the following days, the issue of the performance of
    'traditional' events was raised in the local and national
    media. The Chairman of the Committee was invited to put
    the Council's views as part of a feature on BBC Radio 4's
    'Today' programme.

*   The Current Position
    Weymouth & Portland Borough Council have also recently
    received publicity for taking a similar enforcement line
    with regard to unlicensed events. The Weymouth Folk
    Festival is due to take place from May 9 – 11 this year and
    campaigners there are concerned that folk performers are
    being unfairly treated.

    The 1964 Licensing Act is quite specific and prevents any
    public entertainment being provided in any place except in
    accordance with a public entertainment licence issued by a
    local authority. Entertainment is defined as 'public
    dancing, or music or any other entertainment of a like
    kind'.

    The legislation also permits some exemptions to the need
    to obtain a licence. This includes events where no more
    than two performers provide the entertainment.

    Whilst many of the comments received following the
    media reports suggest that 'traditional' events should not
    be treated in the same way as a disco or a pop concert and
    should be exempt from the requirement for a licence, the
    legislation makes no such distinction.

    It is not open to local authorities to arbitrarily decide that
    the legal requirement for a public entertainment licence
    does not apply to a particular type of entertainment, such
    as folk or 'traditional' type events. Authorities have a duty
    to apply the legislation fairly and impartially.
*   CONCLUSION
*   For Members information, and attached as an Appendix to
    this report, is a copy of a letter that has been drafted in
    order to respond to any further questions concerning the
    Council's response to this event or any similar future
    events


    R P Hanton
    Corporate Services Manager


    Any Questions arising from this report should be directed to
    Mike Hickman (Tel.: [phone], Email:
    [e-mail]).

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 03:28 PM

The following to West Dorset District Council from Molly Barratt.

Dear Mr Hickman

Having been involved in "traditional" music for the last 37 years, you can imagine that it comes as something of a shock to realise that the vast majority of that involvement has been totally illegal. Yes, I realise that being smuggled into a country pub at the age of 13 when I pestered my parents to take me along to hear the singing was not strictly within the law, but my mother assures me that the local bobby was usually there anyway...

Since then I have learned such skill as I have in singing from venerated "old boys" on the Suffolk coast, grand Scottish women in all sorts of odd venues at folk festivals and from half-cut roustabouts and Irish ex-patriots who have stepped in from the public bar and shyly sung in quiet corner-pub sessions that I have run.

I have seen at least one youngster catch the creative spark in the back room of a pub before falling asleep (full of cola and crisps) on the bench. Two years on he was playing his dad's melodeon, and in his twenties became a fully professional performer with a love and knowledge of the tradition that can only be caught, not taught. I have had the astonishing compliment of hearing a young woman come back home from college and sing in public for the first time - and sounding exactly like me!

I have worked for a while as a reminiscence/ craft worker in local authority run residential homes, and had the unique honour of being able to partake in what was clearly a very meaningful encounter with a withdrawn, elderly man. I took along a harmonica. "I used to play one of those" were the first words he said to me, after months of silence. "No", it wasn't the only instrument he played. "No", he didn't play alone. One word at a time he gave the information that there had been a whole community of players of different instruments - melodeon, dulcimer, fiddle... the next week he wasn't there.

Before I went home I asked the manager how W...... was. Not good. Yes, I could go and visit him in his room, so I did. Not knowing the man, I did the only thing I could be certain to evoke a memory, hoping it would be a good one. I started singing "The Farmer's Boy". He joined in every chorus, or at least his lips moved in time to the words. During the following week he died. It felt important that someone was around who knew the kind of music that said something to him.

I am eternally thankful that I grew up when I did, at a time when the licensing authorities by and large took a more pragmatic view of such things and provided people's health and safety was not at risk chose not to enforce what has always been a very odd piece of legislation. If they had not taken that attitude, we would be living in a cultural desert as far as the "tradition" goes.

I realise that West Dorset council is well aware of these anomalies. What I would like to know is this: is the council willing to engage in a positive effort to help to reform the proposed reforms so that we can end up with a truly deregulatory piece of legislation which does not cause problems for people's health and safety, nor their freedom of expression, nor nuisance, nor burdensome responsibilities for either local authorities or the police?

I do not know what form this effort might take, indeed, you probably have a much better idea of that than I, but what I do feel is that something needs to be done, but that the proposed legislation will create even more difficulties all round in this respect than the current law does.

Sincerely

Molly Barrett

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 03:57 PM

Some coverage on the Folk Drama Forum.

http://www.folkplay.info/Forum/TD_Forum_6_Cerne_Abbas.htm

Subject: RE: PEL: Mummers stopped Cerne Abbas
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 09:22 AM

There would appear to be some good news for the Cerne Abbas Mummers and mummers everywhere. This WAS the position re mummers plays and the new Licensing Act.

http://www.folkplay.info/Forum/TD_Forum_8.htm

It would appear that talks over the statutory guidance (or secondary legislation) of the Act has decided that mummers plays are Morris Dancing or of a like kind - as such will not be regulated entertainment and require adavanced permission and a licence.

Quite how this performance of drama only, with little music or dancing can be so considered is beyond me - but it must be welcome if these events can now be free of official intervention - however strange the reasoning may be.