New? Tradmusic Site

Subject: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 02:47 PM

Tradmusic Link

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Aidan Crossey
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 06:02 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Maryrrf
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 06:18 PM

I browsed the site and bookmarked it. It's an iteresting site and I'll be going there often!

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 06:23 PM

it doesn't have much on 'traditional' music. though. It's all revival stuff

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 07:56 PM

oughta be a law against using the term 'trad' for a site like that.....but the commercial world being what it is, I should have expected it.

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Maryrrf
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 10:30 PM

"Trad" music or "traditional" music has come to mean music in the traditional style. After all, the true "traditional" musicians/singers, meaning that they learned the music as passed down in their communities and not from recorded sources, are getting scarce. There's nothing wrong with that site calling itself "trad".

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 01:18 AM

I'm with you there, Mary. Who was it that said "Folk music is not a pickle -- it doesn't need to be preserved"?

Indeed, it needs to be nurtured and grown, and updated to fit the times, so that coming generations will take it over and keep it going.

Keep up, dinosaurs, or become extinct.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 04:30 AM

Absolutely --- one of the brains behind the site is Aaron Jones of Craobh Rua who are one of the better bands around the U.K. doing their own 'Traditional' compositions.

BJ

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Declan
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 05:51 AM

This is an excellent site devoted to bands who are (mostly from what I've seen) playing music which is firmly based in a tradition which has come down through several generations to a new generation of musicians who are for the most part extremely faithful to that tradition, while adding their own input based on their experience of life and music.

If you want to make this traditional/revival distinction in the States, no one here can stop you, but there's enough BS being talked about music here in Ireland and Scotland without bringing this meaningless distinction into the melting pot as well.

There was an interesting thread here a while back where a guest who was a serious student of music was trying to work on an acceptable definition of traditional music, until one of our "witty" contributors chased him off with a "polite" post.

If you're reading this Aaron, keep up the good work and F*%^ the begrudgers !

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Maryrrf
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 11:43 AM

Actually, when I think of "revival" music in the United States I think of those old religious "hellfire and damnation" meetings. Frankly I don't know what to call myself anymore! I used to call myself a "folk singer" but that has come to mean more singer/songwriter or protest singer. I've called myself a "traditional singer" not meaning to be a phony but because 90% of what I sing is traditional material and I try my best to remain faithful to the traditional style of singing. I really don't feel the need to label myself but you have to come up with some kind of description so people will have an idea of what to expect. Kind of like the "celtic" dilema - what I do isn't necessarily "celtic" (and that's another can of worms I don't want to open) but that's a term people tend to associate with the music I do, so I've used that too.    But it seems like any kind of terminology offends somebody!

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: GUEST,derrymacash
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 12:10 PM

Aaron, Billy and crew are a fine bunch of lads doing their bit to fly the flag. Traditional/revivalist ... I think Billy and Aaron know where their music comes from and it's not from books, that's for sure!

Great site. Pity the message board doesn't see a bit more action, but sure ... early days.

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 12:16 PM

"Trad" music or "traditional" music has come to mean music in the traditional style."

well, I guess so, *wry grin*..."gay" has come to mean lots more than ITS older meaning of 'happy & cheerful' also, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.
I always ask "what am I to call that older stuff that was truly 'traditional'?" Do I have to write whole paragraph to describe it because both 'folk' and 'trad' have been co-opted by those who find the original use of the terms too limited for their purpose? *sigh*...I suppose so.

yep, Maryrf,,,it sure is a dilema. You hafta say something, but usage is slippery, and you can't control those who WILL dilute the language.

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge (cookie and format C)
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 06:20 PM

If you sing songs that are truly traditional, then the correct term is "folksong singer". You'll find it on the sleevenotes of early Martin Carthy and Louis Killen albums.

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Dec 02 - 09:18 AM

well, there you go! I guess that settles it!.. With impeccible sources like that.........

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 20 Dec 02 - 09:41 AM

I once read an interview with Manus Lunny, in which he referred to his older brother Donal, as one of the leaders of the revival in Irish music.

If the word "revival" is good enough for the Lunny clan, it's good enough for me.

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Declan
Date: 20 Dec 02 - 09:55 AM

Bill,

As I've said in this country (Ireland) and in Scotland the tradition is very much alive and vibrant. The same couldn't have been said back in the 1950s when the revivalists came along and helped to revive the tradition, which was in a weakened state but never died. Many of the young musicians in these countries spend a lot of time going back to traditional sources in archives, documents etc to find out how the music had been played in their locality back into the past. Where possible they will go and meet the older musicians in the area and learn from them orally or aurally, but its pretty hard to do this if they're dead so sometimes they learn them off tapes and recordings. So when does this stuff stop being traditional then? As soon as someone records it ? If so traditional music as it was known 100 years ago would be dead and incapable of being resurrected.

But it is alive and well thanks to the older musicians who passed the music on to younger ones and the younger ones who are now carrying on that tradition and helping to keep alive and promote this fine music that has been passed onto us, and to pass it on to an even younger generation of musicains now growing up. If that isn't a living tradition I don't know what is. An if they use all the media available to them to do it so much the better, the internet and minidiscs have come to be the media for passing the music on where it might have been a manuscript or a tune swap at a session in the past. Times change but the tradition lives on, Thank God.

I'd be interested to know which bands listed on the site do you think are NOT playing traditional music and why? Which Irish or Scottish musicians would you consider to be more appropriate to be featured on the site and why? Or do you choose to criticise the work being done by these people without this very relevant information.

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Maryrrf
Date: 20 Dec 02 - 10:49 AM

I usually don't get into these wearying debates on Mudcat - I'll just drop out of the thread or quit reading it when it starts. But why can't somebody like Kenny post a link to an interesting site without generating a nitpicking controversy over terminology? Honestly, I don't post very much on this forum for that very reason - somebody is likely to get offended or will start an argument no matter how innocuous the subject. With all due respect to Martin Carthy and Lou Killen (and I DO respect them) just because they used a term in their liner notes doesn't mean that is definitive and MUST be used by everyone. To say that the bands on the trad music site shouldn't be called "traditional" is ludicrous. Personally I'll call myself whatever I want to and won't worry about the judgemental opinions of others - knowing that I've always tried my best to honor and respect traditional music. The same can be said for the bands on the trad site - I agree with everything Declan and Derrymacash said. To Kenny, again thanks for posting the link to the site. I for one enjoyed browsing it.

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 02 - 11:08 AM

Nice to see Liz Carroll at the top of the "featured artist" list this month. She is one of a number of my favorite American Irish musicians.

I do wish the site were more depth than breadth, though. We've seen what seems like a million of these sorts of sites come and go over the past ten years online.

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Aidan Crossey
Date: 20 Dec 02 - 06:24 PM

Mary ...

Maybe you should whack yer CDs over to Billy Jones for a listen. Having heard your stuff and having a little idea of where Billy & crew are coning from, I think he'd be well interested. I gather there's a possibility of a reviews section at some stage!

In any event, if you haven't done so already, get your details on the artists' page!

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Maryrrf
Date: 20 Dec 02 - 07:50 PM

Oh, Derrymacash, I was just going to ask you if I could send you my new CD to review on Pay the Reckoning. Much, much better produced than the other two. Good idea about the artist's page on the new site, too.

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 20 Dec 02 - 08:09 PM

At the risk of being accused of getting repetitive in my old age, I'll quote (yet again) a Burl Ives statement which I find applies to me, and may possibly apply here, or at least is relevant:

He said something like: "People say I'm a folksinger. I'm not. I sing songs I like. It just happens that most of the songs I like are folk songs."

Unfortunately, there's a lot of pressure out there to categorize, categorize, categorize, to pigeonhole, to draw lines to include or exclude.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Dec 02 - 08:36 PM

catagories allow choices to be made more easily. Those who don't 'think' they like categories can just pile everything in the same bin, but there will come a time when they are in a mood to hear "X" and not "Y".

I do not enjoy ALL music...or even all acoustic music. If the album or concert is mis-labeled, I waste time & money. If you go to a restaurant the says "Italian Cusine" on the door, and order Fettucine Alfredo and it comes with BBQ sauce on it, you will KNOW why I like categories explicitly spelled out. I may even decide to try Italian food with BBQ sauce someday, and I may even like it....but it is NOT traditional, and I want to know what I am getting.

One of our local folk DJs has a program which says it plays "Traditional Music....and music in the traditions" which differentiates between stuff done "as it was" and stuff which simply owes a debt to 'trad' of has 'trad' roots.

Years ago (18?-20?) I went to hear "Battlefield Band" and loved them and bought all their records..and 85m% of what they did 'felt' traditional...same with 'Ossian'.....a few years later, Battlefield came back, and they were different...different members, different tunes, different pace, different VOLUME, different character! They were good, but they were NOT what I wanted.

At about the same time I heard "The Tannahill Weavers"...and they, also, were not what I wanted...loud, brash, young,...with amplified bagpipes that simply wore me out!
..Categories? You bet I want categories!....I dont care how talented a man or group is; I need to have some sort of label to tell me "This is new age Celtic pop/punk/folkish stuff!"

Is that too much to ask?...Those who LIKE new age Celtic pop/punk/folkish stuff will be happy and line up...and I will be happy staying home and playing old Ossian or Battlefield Band records......

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Declan
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 10:40 AM

Bill D,

We will have to agree to disagree on this one, but if you actually have a listen to some of the bands featured on this web-site you may find that a lot of them sound more like the Ossian/old Battlefield style you seem to like. I think you might be pleasantly surprised at listening to bands like Malinky, Deaf Shepherd (despite the name) and many of the others listed.

Incidentally John Martin who was the fiddle player with Ossian has been playing with the Tannahill Weavers for many years now. I'm not sure when he was de-traditionalised !

(In fact John is one of the finest Scottish Traditional fiddle players I have heard)

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: GUEST,derrymacash
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 10:52 AM

Mary ...

It would be a pleasure to give your new CD a listen.

Much better produced? Well ... frankly I didn't har uch wrong with the production of Volumes 1 and 2, but we all strive to get a little better, don't we?

If you've still got the address just send them on. If you've mislaid it, PM me and I'll give it again.

Aidan

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 11:30 AM

wel, Declan, one of the benefits of Mudcat is that you can get some insights from others.

If it is indeed true that there are some more 'trad' sounding Celtic bands in that group, then I have learned something without having to go out and play "Celtic roulette" *grin*

I am willing to be educated...and even more willing to be pleasantly surprised. My point that categories and labels are often misleading still stands, but I am happy to have a list of exceptions to explore....thanks.

Subject: RE: New? Tradmusic Site
From: michaelr
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 01:43 AM

Bill -- categories and labels are subject to change, whether you and I like it or not. I get your point, having had to sift through tons of stuff labeled "Celtic" to find the music I like.

But hey, you and I have the advantage over the market forces: we're more flexible and adaptable. And we have minds of our own. So sod what they call it -- there's great music to be found just about anywhere you can bother to look.

And THAT is a good thing!

Holiday Cheers,
Michael