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Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)

Related threads:
Lyr/Chords Req: isle of dreams? (2)
Tune Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (18)
Lyr Req: Song about Irish imigrant girl arriving (17)
Tune Req: Isle of hope isle of tears backing trac (5)
Info Ellis Island (25)
Lyr Req: Isle of Hope and Tears (9)


boglion 30 Dec 02 - 10:36 AM
Declan 30 Dec 02 - 10:40 AM
nutty 30 Dec 02 - 11:43 AM
boglion 30 Dec 02 - 12:45 PM
Herga Kitty 30 Dec 02 - 02:30 PM
Marion in Cornwall 19 Apr 03 - 02:30 AM
Marion in Cornwall 19 Apr 03 - 01:45 PM
ardmacha2 15 Sep 08 - 07:12 AM
Mysha 16 Sep 08 - 03:20 AM
Mysha 18 Sep 08 - 10:54 AM
Teribus 19 Sep 08 - 02:05 AM
Mysha 19 Sep 08 - 06:42 AM
Teribus 19 Sep 08 - 03:14 PM
Mysha 07 Dec 08 - 08:17 PM
GUEST 08 Dec 08 - 07:50 AM
Folkiedave 08 Dec 08 - 11:30 AM
terrier 08 Dec 08 - 03:13 PM
ardmacha joe 09 Dec 08 - 06:26 AM
Mysha 09 Dec 08 - 07:08 PM
ardmacha joe 10 Dec 08 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,nathalie 25 Aug 10 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,mg 25 Aug 10 - 04:43 PM
Mysha 29 Jan 11 - 01:17 PM
GUEST,Becky Dietrich 31 Aug 14 - 04:41 PM
Acme 31 Aug 14 - 05:10 PM
GUEST,M?che?l Creabhar ?'Duinn 04 Jan 18 - 10:14 AM
Tattie Bogle 06 Jan 18 - 07:21 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope?
From: boglion
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 10:36 AM

I've just heard a song on liveireland.com. It's one I've heard a couple of times in Kerry sung by a local singer. I'm not even sure of the title. It's about Ellis Island. Does anyone have the lyrics and know who's recorded this?

Cheers


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope?
From: Declan
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 10:40 AM

It has been recorded by Sean Keane, and possibly also by his sister Dolores (I seem to be able to hear her singing it in my head, but I'm not 100% sure she recorded it).

I probably have it on a CD at home so I'll post the lyrics later in the week, if no-one beats me to it.


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Subject: Lyr Add: ISLE OF HOPE, ISLE OF TEARS (B Graham)
From: nutty
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 11:43 AM

I hope these are the words you are looking for boglion.....

They came from this site
lyrics


ISLE OF HOPE, ISLE OF TEARS
Lyrics By: Brendan Graham

On the first day on January, eighteen ninety-two,
They opened Ellis Island and they let the people through,
And the first to cross the threshold of that isle of hope and tears
Was Annie Moore from Ireland who was all of fifteen years.

Chorus: Isle of hope, isle of tears,
Isle of freedom, isle of fears,
But it's not the isle you left behind.
That isle of hunger, isle of pain,
Isle you'll never see again,
But the isle of home is always on your mind.

In a little bag she carried all her past and history,
And her dreams for the future in the land of liberty.
And courage is the passport when your old world disappears,
But there's no future in the past when you're fifteen years. CHORUS

When they closed down Ellis Island in nineteen forty-three,
Seventeen million people had come there for sanctuary.
And in springtime when I came here and I stepped onto its piers,
I thought of how it must have been when you're fifteen years. CHORUS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope?
From: boglion
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 12:45 PM

Thanks lads...

4 minutes for a reply and 7 minutes for the lyrics. Excellent.

I missed Sean Keane by one day in Kerry last year. He was on in our village hall the day after I was leaving.

Thanks again.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 02:30 PM

I've posted on this before, because Big Mick has recorded it, and was asking who wrote it.

Ellis Island was featured on 2 BBC radio programmes earlier this year. On one, it was said that Annie Moore was in the records as being 13, not 15. There was a discrepancy over the dates when Ellis Island closed as well.

Poetic licence I guess - but it niggles a bit!

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope?
From: Marion in Cornwall
Date: 19 Apr 03 - 02:30 AM

I heard this song at a session in Clonakilty (when KJ and I were there in February) and would love to have a go at singing it. I'd really appreciate it if someone could post the dots.

Regards
Marion


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope?
From: Marion in Cornwall
Date: 19 Apr 03 - 01:45 PM

Refresh


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: ardmacha2
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:12 AM

hi marion, beautiful orchestral version on phil colters cd called tranquilty Classic track5 Ellis Island


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: Mysha
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 03:20 AM

Hi,

To sum it all up without poetic license:

When they closed down Ellis Island
In nineteen fifty-four,
More than twelve million people
Had sought refuge at its shore
And in Springtime when I came here
And I stepped onto its piers,
I thought of how it must have been
When you're thirteen years.

                                                                  Mysha


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: Mysha
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 10:54 AM

Hi,

I checked with the Ellis Island people, and they tell me "Nearly thirteen million is sufficiently accurate". This allows for a better meter:

When they closed down Ellis Island
In nineteen fifty-four,
Nearly thirteen million people
Had sought refuge at its shore
And in Springtime when I came here
And I stepped onto its piers,
I thought of how it must have been
When you're thirteen years.


                                                                Mysha


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 02:05 AM

Thanks for that Mysha, if it's OK with you, I'll adopt your rewritten last verse should I sing this song in future.

Always strikes me with people writing songs about historical events or places in retrospect, the least they can do is get the thing right. Other "popular/well known" folk songs that have failed to do this:

"Back Home in Derry" - Sands

"Band Played Waltzing Matilda" - Bogle

"Fields of Athenry" - StJohn.


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Subject: There's always one more
From: Mysha
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 06:42 AM

Hi Teribus,

It's not Ol Klear with me as, as most programmers will tell you, there's always one more bug.
In this case, I just realised there are no piers at Ellis Island, today. People seem to picture Ellis Island as an Alcatraz-like rock, while it's really just flat sand etc., be it with man-made additions. You don't need piers to be able to off-load passengers on the island, and the ferries simply moor on the quay-side.

Unfortunately, it's the final rhyme, and going through all the verses, so there's little we can do about it. I guess the easy way out is to return to IoHaT:

And in Springtime when I came there
To that Isle of Hope and Tears


Better, if you could make it work, would be something along the lines of:

And in Springtime when I came there
Their voices seemed to fill my ears
(They) made me think of how it must have been
When you're thirteen years.


It's hard enough getting the present right, I guess, never mind the past. But I'd rather have songs that make sense, including getting the facts right. Still, the folk process wouldn't work as well if every version had to be true.
Fields of Athenry, I don't like much, but that's because I think the lyrics are not good. If they're also not accurate, do we have that on forum? Same question for the other two, I guess.
                                                               Mysha


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 03:14 PM

For "Back Home In Derry" and "Fields Of Athenry":

The transportation of convicts to Australia which took place from 1778 until 1868 was extremely well documented. After the sailing of the "First Convoy" in 1778 from Spithead off Portsmouth, each sailing to land convicts ashore in Australia and Tasmania is documented. No convict ships sailed from Galway (nearest seaport to Athenry) or from Derry. No convict ships sailed at all from Ireland in 1803, the only ship to sail that year was the "Coromandel" out of England. After the first three convoys, you stood a better chance of surviving the voyage to Australia as a convict as Masters were only paid for each convict that reached his destination alive, so every convict ship carried a doctor, overall losses (Some 160,000+ transported) were minimal.

For "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" - The young man would not have been given a tin hat on joining up in Australia in 1915, British and Empire Forces were not issued with tin hats until 1916. No-one was killed at all during the landings at Suvla Bay as the landings were unopposed.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: Mysha
Date: 07 Dec 08 - 08:17 PM

Hi,

Apparently, with all the problems with the local net and with Mudcat, this comment never made it to the site:

One of the Ellis Island people suggested "sailed", and I think that strengthens it just enough to allow the fancy:

When they closed down Ellis Island
In nineteen fifty-four,
Nearly thirteen million people
Had sought refuge at its shore

And in Springtime when I sailed there
Their voices seemed to fill my ears
They made me wonder how it must have been
If you were thirteen years.


I'm not sure about the final line. The original one seems slightly incorrect to me, but maybe it's a common way to say that. The replacement I used may be a bit bland, though I hope it's correct.

In defence of the other songs: They do not actually say that these things happened differently, as they don't actually speak of them at all. The only thing is that tin hat: Is there something else the soldier might have gotten in 1915, together with the gun?

Of course, that I didn't consider it Ol Klear should not keep anyone from using it: Folk songs have to be sung; folk songs have to be altered. Only if we do both, the tradition will stay alive. So, by all means, pick any version mentioned, though I feel the latter ones are better. (Do remember to sing "thirteen" in all verses if you do so in the final verse.) Let me know how it goes.

Bye,
                                                                Mysha


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 07:50 AM

The correct lyrics are as shown by nutty and written by Brendan Graham.No one has the liberty to change the authors composition without licence no matter the reason


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 11:30 AM

No one has the liberty to change the authors composition without licence no matter the reason

I am not sure what "without licence" means. If you mean "permission" - are you saying it can't be done even if the author is dead?

And how - pray - is the author going to stop them even if alive? And what if the author approves of the change?

And does that mean it has to be sung in its entirety. And what if you forget a verse? Does that mean you can't finish it?

And what if the change is done by a mishearing? Does that still count?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: terrier
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 03:13 PM

This Youtube clip is one of my favourites:

Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: ardmacha joe
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:26 AM

to smartass folkiedave.
If you wish to besmirch the meaning of this song written in the memory of all those people who sailed from Ireland and other countries during hard times, feelfree. But please refrain from replying to my comments and keep your smartass comments to your self


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: Mysha
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 07:08 PM

Hi Joe,

I hope, from the earlier messages of the thread, it can be understood that the reason I posted alternative lyrics was that the original lyrics aren't entirely factual. You seem to feel those alternative lyrics show disrespect, somehow. Can you tell me what the problem is that you feel with those lyrics? Maybe there's a way to have them both factual and giving the respect you would like them to show.

                                                                  Mysha


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: ardmacha joe
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 08:20 AM

Hi Mysha.I take your point although i think Brendan Graham would have had the subject of Ellis Island well researched when he wrote the song.I have no issue with you It was Folkiedave I took issue wit for his smartass remarks.You appear to be of better ilk than he is


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: GUEST,nathalie
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 03:54 PM

hello,
when and why was this song wroten?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 04:43 PM

That reminds me...an aquaintance had a father who worked at Ellis Island. she is now elderly. She has a number of papers and did not realize that there would be interest in them. Where would be a good place to donate them? mg


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: Mysha
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 01:17 PM

Hi,

Joe, while you'd generally research the general topic you're writing about, it's not always that easy to go look up every little detail that you mere+y rhyme in. As the documentation about an event grows, and as our access to documentation grows easier, it's often easier to find out about the details in later times than it was at the time a song was written.
I guess David has a point in writing there can't be such an absolute limitation on modifying songs. He would seem to be overstating it a bit, here, though.

Nathalie, the song was written by Brendan Graham; it's copyrighted for 2001, as far as I know, but I don't know whether there was a specific reason. The first artists I saw performing it were The Irish Tenors. It maybe that it was written especially for their special and album on Ellis Island, from 2001. (If not, it may be that just the The Irish Tenors' version is copyright 2001.)

Mg, your acquaintance might contact the Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Foundation. I don't know whether or not their documentation is limited to the immigration records, but even if that should be the case they are likely to know who does keep further documentation.

And finally: Sometimes even the corrected truth may not be all it appears.

                                                                Mysha


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: GUEST,Becky Dietrich
Date: 31 Aug 14 - 04:41 PM

The Irish port of Cobh has a statue of a young girl and two small boys
depicting the immigrants leaving for distant shores. The girl is known as Annie Moore. The lyrics by Brendan Graham depict the sad
story of this young girl as a result of the devastating famine in Ireland of the late 1840's.
   What a fine teller of tales he is. And the music is so fitting.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: Acme
Date: 31 Aug 14 - 05:10 PM

Ellis Island was opened originally in 1892, wooden buildings on the island in New York Harbor. The buildings burned in 1897 so processing took place in Manhattan at the Barge Office, what now is the Coast Guard station. It reopened in 1900.

The busiest year was 1906. The number of immigrants processed is cited as "12 to 16 million" by the National Park Service because a lot of records were lost in the fire and elsewhere but it is assumed that 12 million is probably most accurate.

Very little is known of Annie Moore. Ellis Island has now and had then no piers. There was an awful lot of poetic license taken in that song.

In 1921 and 1924 massive immigration reform bills were passed (this is where a lot of Social Darwinism was codified into the U.S. immigration policy toward various groups, religions, and nationalities). By 1924 immigrant processing was happening at the nation of origin, and if there were problems people would be detained at Ellis.

During World War II it was primarily a Coast Guard facility and the hospitals were used for rehabilitation of injured military. I don't have a lot of information about that period. It closed in 1954, though after that a couple of groups tried and failed to make a go of using the island. Ellis was added to the National Park Service in 1965 and is part of the Statue of Liberty National Monument. I worked there as an interpretive historian for two years back before the restoration of the island began. For more information I would refer you to Strangers At the Door, a book by Ann Novotny that gives an excellent overview of immigration before and through the Ellis Island years.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: GUEST,M?che?l Creabhar ?'Duinn
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 10:14 AM

let's face it "Isle of hope, isle of tears" is not really a folk song or even a song in the folk tradition. It is a commercial pop song written to appeal to a specific audience and to make money for the writer.

The song is written to appeal to a Bing Crosby phony Irish audience from Yankland who can sing it as they cry in their beer. The 3 month shy of 18yo ?ine Moore travelling with her 15yo and 11yo brothers to join her resident parents in New York is changed into a 13yo brave little match girl travelling in a coffin ship across the Atlantic to escape a famine that had ended 60 years earlier.

This woman was not travelling to "America" which is a continent but to the USA which is less than 1/3 of that continent. She was leaving a land just as free and much more civilised than the land she was going to and she would face just as much fear, teas, and loss of liberty in her new land as the land she left. As proof of this she dies at 50 and left 11 children behind.

There really is a folk song in ?ine's story but not the one that would sell to the plaghmas Irish myth lovers or that appeal to the YankEireanach. You won't find historical reality in this song - it might spoil it for the Yank mythology lovers the song is aimed at to make it a commercial success.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Isle of Hope, Isle of Tears (B Graham)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 06 Jan 18 - 07:21 PM

Pretty cynical view, even with the current plague of question-marks!
As I posted on another current thread, it's maybe the rather nice tune that draws people in? Certainly did for me, the first time I heard it. Only later did I hear all the words/find out what it was all about, historically accurate or not.


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