BS: Latin Query

Subject: Latin Query
From: InOBU
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 11:49 PM

Hi Folks... I need a wee Latin translation for a work in progress... how does one say in Latin... "Pretentious, ME!?" Gratius... Larry

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: Haruo
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 12:19 AM

Cras, Laurenti...

Haruo

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: Amos
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 12:40 AM

Deda teaches the stuff -- PM her for a sure bet if no answer appears here.

A

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: GUEST,Marcus Didius Falco
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 01:06 AM

Gloriosus sum.

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: mack/misophist
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 01:35 AM

Falco: Your Mother wants you home at once. Your wife is there too.

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: InOBU
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 05:46 AM

I believe Marcus has the likely sounding answer! THanks, Larry

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: Amos
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 09:03 AM

The irony of the line -- "Pretentious---MOI???" is lost in the simple statement "I am vainglorious".    Guess it depends on how precise you need it!

A

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: Hippie Chick
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 11:15 AM

simulo, simulare simulavi simulatum - to make like; to imitate, copy represent; to pretend, feign, counterfeit, simulate, assume the appearance of.

Langenscheid's Pocket Latin Dictionary

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: Amos
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 12:09 PM

Quod -- me simularens?

LOL!


A

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: SINSULL
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 12:37 PM

How about:
Simularens...ego?
Although simularens just doesn't do it. And my dictionaries are packed...STILL!

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: GUEST,Marcus Didius Falco
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 12:41 PM

Amos, you are close to what Lorcan wants, but the problem is that the Romans didn't seem to have that type of reflexive humor. Questioning a man's image of himself would end with knives in the alley, wielded by hired bully boys. Not that 99 44/100 of the audience would know that.
Simulo has more the meaning of pretend.

(Falco is the name of an informer-private eye in a series of humorous mysteries set in ancient Rome, written by Lindsey Davis)

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: Amos
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 12:44 PM

Thanks, Diddlus!

Falco I know -- love the books.

P'raps the expostulation should just be "Simulo??!!!!!" -- (you say I am pretending?). Close as it's gonna get unless little sister has some deeper wisdom about it.

A

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 01:51 PM

I have no doubt that irony was as prevalant then as it is now, esopecially among subject peoples. Most people speaking Latin weren't Romans. (Now why does that thought sound familiar?)

Classical Latin used to go in for signalling the expected answer when asking questions. On the face of it this would seen to mark a rejection of irony - but no doubt this very factor would have been exlpoited by someone with an ironical intent.

"Am I not Modest?" - "Nonne impudicus sum?" (Expecting the answer "Yes".)

"Surely I am not pretentious?" "Num adrogans sum?" (Expecting the answer No.)

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: Deda
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 02:24 PM

The participle for simulo should be simulans, with an "a", first conjugation. Here are possibilities.
Ne simulo quidem. -- I don't even pretend.

Humilior equidem sum -- surely I'm too modest. I think this conveys some of the sarcasm that's wanted.

Cicero could be incredibly sardonic and ironic, and extremely witty and fast, but it would take a much greater scholar than I am to guess how he would put this. What I don't hink they did was ask a question (me?) as a way of sarcastically conveying "never!".

Alii simulant, certe -- ego, numquam. Some people pretend, sure. Me, never. Then you can plug in other adjectives or verbs -- alii ostentationem agunt, certe -- ego numquam. Some people show off (display ostentation), sure -- me, never.

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: Cluin
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 02:27 PM

"Etentiouspray, EMAY!?"

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: InOBU
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 02:46 PM

Actually, here is the context... I recieved a rather pretentious note, wherein the writer peppered his letter with Latin (being that the writer was my brother who remembered my poor latin marks fourty some years back... well... ) anyway there was the old joke from Faulty Towers... where the punchline was the fellow said, Pretentious, MOI?... so my reply to my brother's latin pretentiousness (he speaks 18 languages...) was to say that when one makes a point by peppering one's writing with Latin phrases, one should be ready to say, "Pretentious? SUM?!"
Thanks to all,
Pax et solis
Larry

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: fat B****rd
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 03:31 PM

Outstanding, Cluin...outstanding. Igpay atinlay ulesray.

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: fat B****rd
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 03:33 PM

PS Appyhay oonay earyay omfre Atfay Astardbay

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: Haruo
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 12:31 AM

Sermo porculorum regit! Sorry I didn't get back to you as promised, Larry, but it looks like others took up the slack.

Happy New Year
Haruo

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 04:09 AM

I must confess to great curiosity: how would you fine Latin scholars translate the phrase/motto:
"The truth - wherever it may lead"?

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: Deda
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 03:35 PM

Veritas -- quocumque ducit.

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: jeffp
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 03:40 PM

Can anyone give me the English for "Sub pondere sursum"? I ran across it as supposedly our family motto. Thanks in advance!

Jeffp

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 04:03 PM

Taking a guess, just to see if I remember anything- Onward, after consideration.

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: Willa
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 04:38 PM

Onwards, beneath oppression.

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: Willa
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 04:39 PM

Sorry; sursum is upwards, so Upwards, under oppression

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 05:02 PM

pondus, ponderis: weight (real or opressive)
pondero-are: consider, weigh
sursum: up, upwards, (onward).

Easy to go wrong on these mottos when your Latin training was over 50 years ago. The first is a noun, the second a verb. Willa is right.

Subject: RE: Latin Query
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 05:28 PM

Anyone remember Mad magazine?

Quid me anxius sum? (Alfred E. Neuman)

Subject: RE: BS: Latin Query
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 09:48 AM

The original question: Pretentious?
As Larry points out, his friend shows off his learning in using Latin quotations. There is a fine classical verb for it, viz. ostentare, and such a person is an ostentator, in English: ostentatious.
My solution: Ostentator? Num ego?

The Alfred E. Newman question: Quid? Num me sollicitum? or Num me dolorem capere? The auxiliary esse is mostly left out in classical use. Here the a.c.i. is chosen, dependent on an omitted putes (potential conjunctive).

Wilfried

Subject: RE: BS: Latin Query
From: jeffp
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 09:18 AM

Thanks a bunch, folks. "Upwards, under oppression" I like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Latin Query
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 06:48 PM

Mad Magazine actually had a cover with their chosen Latin version - as I quoted it. I think it maybe makes the point that in polemic what is understood may be more important than what is said - but InOBU's question is not affected by this and he needs a grammatically and linguistically precise text to rebuke his "learned" relative.