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Hymn tune named Affection

Haruo 03 Jan 03 - 11:09 PM
Haruo 03 Jan 03 - 11:19 PM
Haruo 03 Jan 03 - 11:23 PM
Uncle Jaque 04 Jan 03 - 11:58 PM
Uncle Jaque 05 Jan 03 - 12:18 AM
masato sakurai 05 Jan 03 - 01:03 AM
GUEST 05 Jan 03 - 10:46 AM
Dave Bryant 06 Jan 03 - 10:27 AM
Uncle Jaque 06 Jan 03 - 12:47 PM
Haruo 06 Jan 03 - 02:13 PM
Uncle Jaque 06 Jan 03 - 02:32 PM
Burke 07 Jan 03 - 11:01 AM
Burke 07 Jan 03 - 12:52 PM
Haruo 07 Jan 03 - 02:09 PM
Burke 07 Jan 03 - 05:06 PM
masato sakurai 07 Jan 03 - 08:02 PM
Haruo 07 Jan 03 - 09:20 PM
Uncle Jaque 07 Jan 03 - 10:09 PM
Burke 08 Jan 03 - 05:11 PM
Haruo 09 Jan 03 - 11:04 PM
Burke 14 Jan 03 - 06:35 PM
Haruo 18 Jan 03 - 02:52 AM
Burke 20 Jan 03 - 02:17 PM
Haruo 10 Feb 03 - 08:56 PM
Burke 11 Feb 03 - 06:25 PM
Haruo 12 Feb 03 - 11:56 PM
Haruo 14 Feb 03 - 03:52 PM
Haruo 23 Feb 03 - 12:17 AM
Haruo 05 Mar 03 - 08:55 PM
Haruo 05 Mar 03 - 10:05 PM
Haruo 19 Mar 03 - 05:07 AM
GUEST,Dick Hulan 06 Jul 04 - 09:19 PM
Haruo 06 Jul 04 - 10:04 PM
Haruo 29 Jul 07 - 11:33 PM
sian, west wales 30 Jul 07 - 04:50 AM
GUEST,GUEST, Tim Henderson 30 Jul 07 - 12:56 PM
Snuffy 31 Jul 07 - 08:43 AM
sian, west wales 31 Jul 07 - 10:50 AM
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Subject: Lyr ADD: My Jesus, I love Thee
From: Haruo
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 11:09 PM

There is a hymn text, "My Jesus, I love Thee", by one William R. Featherston[e?] of Montreal, Canada, which was first published in 1864 (but written a year or two earlier, at age 16) and still has some currency in the evangelical circles I inhabit. I have always heard it sung to the tune GORDON, as given in The Cyber Hymnal, but I have just found another tune for it, AFFECTION, in Hope Publishing's 1990 hymnal The Worshiping Church. Here is the text of the hymn:

My Jesus, I Love Thee

William Ralph Featherston[e?], 1864


My Jesus, I love Thee, I know Thou art mine;
For Thee all the follies of sin I resign.
My gracious Redeemer, my Savior art Thou;
If ever I loved Thee, my Jesus, 'tis now.

I love Thee because Thou has first loved me,
And purchased my pardon on Calvary's tree.
I love Thee for wearing the thorns on Thy brow;
If ever I loved Thee, my Jesus, 'tis now.

I'll love Thee in life, I will love Thee in death,
And praise Thee as long as Thou lendest me breath;
And say when the death dew lies cold on my brow,
If ever I loved Thee, my Jesus, 'tis now.

In mansions of glory and endless delight,
I'll ever adore Thee in heaven so bright;
I'll sing with the glittering crown on my brow;
If ever I loved Thee, my Jesus, 'tis now.

I'm also interested in knowing how the author's name was really spelled. "Authorities" vary on that final -e. There's an Esperanto hymnist in London named David Featherstone (here's his only hymn in my hymnal) but he professed a few years ago not to have heard of William R. Still, I wonder. Any info welcome.

Haruo


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Subject: Tune ADD: Affection (by E F Miller)
From: Haruo
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 11:19 PM

Here's the "new" old tune, AFFECTION, which The Worshiping Church attributes to "E. F. Miller, 19th C."

MIDI file: Affexion.mid

Timebase: 192

Name: Affection (Miller)
Text: By E F Miller, 19th Century
Copyright: melody MIDI for MIDITEXT
Key: Ab
TimeSig: 4/4 24 8
Start
0000 1 63 110 0160 0 63 000 0032 1 68 110 0336 0 68 000 0048 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 63 110 0336 0 63 000 0048 1 63 110 0160 0 63 000 0032 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 63 110 0192 0 63 000 0000 1 61 110 0160 0 61 000 0032 1 60 110 0160 0 60 000 0032 1 63 110 0160 0 63 000 0032 1 68 110 0528 0 68 000 0048 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 70 110 0336 0 70 000 0048 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 72 110 0336 0 72 000 0048 1 73 110 0160 0 73 000 0032 1 73 110 0160 0 73 000 0032 1 72 110 0192 0 72 000 0000 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 68 110 0528 0 68 000 0048 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 72 110 0336 0 72 000 0048 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 70 110 0336 0 70 000 0048 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 68 110 0288 0 68 000 0000 1 67 110 0094 0 67 000 0002 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 65 110 0192 0 65 000 0000 1 63 110 0336 0 63 000 0048 1 61 110 0160 0 61 000 0032 1 60 110 0192 0 60 000 0000 1 63 110 0160 0 63 000 0032 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 68 110 0336 0 68 000 0048 1 63 110 0160 0 63 000 0032 1 63 110 0160 0 63 000 0032 1 68 110 0192 0 68 000 0000 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 75 110 0160 0 75 000 0032 1 75 110 0160 0 75 000 0032 1 72 110 0288 0 72 000 0000 1 70 110 0094 0 70 000 0002 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 70 110 0336 0 70 000 0048 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 72 110 0336 0 72 000 0048 1 73 110 0160 0 73 000 0032 1 73 110 0160 0 73 000 0032 1 72 110 0192 0 72 000 0000 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 68 110 0528 0 68 000
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the latest version of MIDItext and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:Affection (Miller)
M:4/4
Q:1/4=120
K:Ab
E2A4A2|c2E4E2|F2E2D2C2|E2A6|A2B4B2|B2c4d2|
d2c2B2A2|G2A6|A2c4c2|c2B4B2|c2A3GA2|F2F2E4|
D2C2E2A2|A2A4E2|E2A2c2e2|e2c3BA2|A2B4B2|B2c4d2|
d2c2B2A2|G2A11/2||

Performance note: This tune repeats the words "If ever I loved thee" in the last line three times. As given in The Worshiping Church, the first time through is Sopranos and Altos only, Tenors come in on the second run, and finally Basses on the third attempt.

I do not find any "E F Miller" anywhere as a composer; Edward Miller (composer of "Rockingham", England's answer to Mason's "Hamburg") is too early, d. 1807. Any details would be welcome on this composer: gender, nationality, dates, whether other works are extant. And as for the tune itself, where was it first published (there's no "Affection" in either Southern Harmony or Sacred Harp); was it the original tune for the text... ?

Haruo


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Subject: Tune ADD: Gordon (My Jesus, I Love Thee)
From: Haruo
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 11:23 PM

Finally, here's the customary tune, GORDON, named for its composer.

MIDI file: Gordon.mid

Timebase: 192

Name: Gordon
Text: By Adoniram J. Gordon, 1876
Copyright: Public domain
Key: F
TimeSig: 4/4 24 8
Start
0000 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 69 110 0336 0 69 000 0048 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 69 110 0256 0 69 000 0032 1 67 110 0094 0 67 000 0002 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 67 110 0336 0 67 000 0048 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 65 110 0528 0 65 000 0048 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 69 110 0336 0 69 000 0048 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 69 110 0256 0 69 000 0032 1 67 110 0094 0 67 000 0002 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 67 110 0336 0 67 000 0048 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 65 110 0528 0 65 000 0048 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 72 110 0336 0 72 000 0048 1 74 110 0160 0 74 000 0032 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 60 110 0160 0 60 000 0032 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 65 110 0336 0 65 000 0048 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 69 110 0336 0 69 000 0048 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 69 110 0256 0 69 000 0032 1 67 110 0094 0 67 000 0002 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 65 110 0736 0 65 000
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the latest version of MIDItext and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:Gordon1
M:4/4
Q:1/4=120
K:F
F2A4B2|B2A3GF2|A2G4E2|E2F6|F2A4B2|B2A3GF2|
A2G4E2|E2F6|A2c4d2|c2B2A2G2|C2A2c2B2|G2F4E2|
F2A4B2|B2A3GF2|A2c2B2A2|G2F6|-F7/4||

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 11:58 PM

Ahoy, Huaro!

That's one of my favorite old Hymns, too.

It appears in my collection of 1800's Gospel Music as No. 314: "My Jesus, I Love Thee." on pg. 292 of "Gospel Hymns Combined"; Church, Biglow, & Main: 1879.

Annotations on this original score as printed include a passage from John 17:10 under the title, "London Hymn Book, 1864" at the left top and "A.J. GORDON, by per." at the right top. There are 4 verses of lyrics.

I havn't fussed with the Text/Midi thing; the old version of it was a bit of a pain to use, perhaps I'll try the newer one.

But the tune in one flat, 4/4 time, is probably the one which you and I are most familiar with, and is the one commonly used in Evangelical Christian Worship on occasion today. I have seen it in more than one contemporary Protestant Christian Church Hymnal.

I have improvised guitar chords for it which work well for me in the primative fingerpicking style on a gut-strung old parlor guitar, but it is a really tricky piece to play. At least it is for me; Segovia would not have all that much of a problem with it, I suppose. The part that goes; "My Gra-cious Re-deem-er, ..." has a seperate chord for EACH syllable of that part, not counting an optional Em for the bridge in "Redeemer"; G-Bm-Em-Am-C-(Em)-D7... It will give your left hand (assuming that you play right-handed) a tremendous workout!

When you get this one mastered and are feeling pretty hot, let me know and I'll send you another mid-1800's piece entitled "Weep Not For Me" to the tune of "All Through The Night". It's wicked pretty, but also demands some fast tap-dancing on the fingerboard between chords!

If you would PM me with your E-mail address I could scan my working copy of the score, annotated with chords as an ATT *.JPG or *.GIF file for you if you would like. Have patience; I don't lurk around in here as frequently as I used to.

Hope this helps, and may our Lord & Savior bless & keep ye!

Uncle Jaque in Maine


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 12:18 AM

"Affection" is listed as No. 163 in "The New Sacred Star", MARSHALL, Leonard; Boston: Oliver DITSON & Co., 1865, in my Index listing.

I'm not going to dig it out tonight as most of the original books in my collection are quite fragile and raggedy, and I keep them in museum archival storage boxes, and try not to handle them very often. When I find a score I like, I scan/photocopy it and work from the copy in a 3-ring binder.

If you would like, however, I can pull the book and scan the score for you. I might point out, however, that it is not at all uncommon to find 3 or 4 (or more) of these old late-18th - mid 19th Century tunes which are quite different from each other, yet share the same title! It seems that Titles, melodies, and lyrics really didn't settle down and start living together regularly until around the time of the Civil War. Using the "Metrical System" mixing-and-matching tunes and lyrics was a common practice for nearly a Century. Another thing you will find is that an "alternative" melody for a certain song is actually just another harmony part for it; they swapped those around with gay abandon, too!

The study of American Music during this transitional period can get really interesting!


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: masato sakurai
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 01:03 AM

This is the entry of Featherstone (with e) in Samuel J. Rogal, comp., Sing Glory and Hallelujah!: Historical and Biographical Guide to Gospel Hymns Nos. 1 to 6 Complete (Greenwood, 1996, p. 57):

FEATHERSTONE, William Ralph (1842-1878). A native of Montreal, Canada, his parents held membership of Wesleyan Methodist Church, Montreal.
#586. My Jesus, I Love Thee. My Jesus, I love Thee,/I know Thou art mine
M= Adoniram Judson Gordon
--Written between 1858 and 1862 to mark the occasion of the writer's religious conversion at a Toronto revival meeting
--London Hymn Book (1864)
--Charles B. Snepp, Songs of Grace and Glory (1872)
--I.D. Sanky, Sacred Songs and Solos (1881), #374
--No reference to the author of the text in Gospel Hymns Nos. 1 to 6, since the discovery of authorship did not come about until well into the 1950's

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Affection
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 10:46 AM

Ahah! I was hoping that our Resident Professor of Hymnology would check in here! Thanks, Prof. masato!

Am I correct in assuming that the Lyrics were written by Featherstone to a score previously composed by Gordon? Or did the two work together on the piece - or was the music written to go with that particular set of lyrics?

   Haruo's observations tend to indicate that it was one of those common metrical match-ups that just worked so well that the lyrics and the tune formerly known as "Affection" have been stuck together ever since.

How old is "Affection"? The earliest I have it is in a Collection published in 1865 (ibid), and not having dug it out of the Archives yet am not sure that it is either one of the tunes Haruo posted.
I'll keep an eye out for it while perusing the collection, next time I go through it. There are some real Doozies in there which I have yet to really investigate properly or play out. I would love to have someone come and go through the collection at our piano, who really knows how to sight-read music (I do not, all that well)so we might hear what some of these old relics really sound like. A few that I have thrashed out like "Disciple", "Delight", and "Morning Star" are really beautiful music. I feel that it is a pity that they are not heard more often than they are. They certainly have the power to touch and move Souls now every bit as much as I am sure they did then.

Through these old songs, I feel as if I have been able to somehow reach back through time and touch the Faith of our Christian Ancestors... and that is a precious and Sacred experience.

   Some of these old lyrics, such as the WATTS or BEECHER ones (we have oodles of those in the archives) are tremendously powerful, although the music given with them might not be particularly noteworty.

Sometimes it's the other way around. I get the impression that the mixing and matching of lyrics and scores which has resulted in some of the greatest classical Hymns of early America was never really completed after the Civil War.

The "raw materials", if you will, are still waiting in these mouldy old music books to be discovered and eventually brought to fruition.
No doubt Souls might be blessed and our Lord honored by such an endeavor.

What thinkest Thou?


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 10:27 AM

"I do not find any "E F Miller" anywhere as a composer; Edward Miller (composer of "Rockingham", England's answer to Mason's "Hamburg") is too early, d. 1807"

Why ? - Hymn tunes are often around in conjuction with one set of lyrics for many years and then someone realises that they'll work with another set. It's also not unusual for lyricists to set words to existing tunes which they like - I can think of at least three sets to "The Londondery Air". If he died in 1807, E. F. Miller had seven years to write (or publish) "Affection" in the 19th C.


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 12:47 PM

I actually looked up "Affection" in the "New Sacred Star" last night, and it does not look like anything I have ever heard before.

While my RAFG (Responsible Adult Female Guardian) was balancing the checkbook and playing computer cards, I continued to paw through some of my end-bound Hymn books from the mid-1800s, and since I do not play the piano but do play a tin whistle, looked for tunes in one or two sharps that I can handle, and gave some of them a whirl. A few of 'em are pretty neat!


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Haruo
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 02:13 PM

Thanks for all the comments, Uncle Jaque. You can email me at cignetoATyahooDOTcom. On using the TXT2MID, if you find that a pain try ABC2MID at the following site: http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html (just paste in the ABC part of the tune as I posted it, i.e. the part in black beginning with "X:1" and ending with "||" and hit submit; it'll give you not only a simple MIDI file (along the lines of those in the DT) but also a GIF and PDF score of the melody line. Give it a try.

As for GUEST's point about the alleged "too-earliness" of Edward Miller, that's right; I should have said "too early if the tune was composed for the text", which is of course one of the questions: was it?

Masato, I think there's an earlier American publication of the text than 1872 (though the first publication anywhere was London, 1864); can't seem to find the reference right now. Basically, it seems to me, the easiest way to start researching this is to answer the question, "what tune or tunes were associated with this text before 1876?" Anyone?

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 02:32 PM

My copy of "My Jesus..." indicates that it was found in an unidentified hymn Book in London in 1865. Now as to whether the said Hymn Book was published in 1865 or was an earlier edition FOUND in said Church in 1865, we can only speculate.

I'll keep an eye out for earlier appearances of this tune and let you know if it shows up.

Thanks for the leads on the music conversion utilities; I'll check 'em out!

Stand by for an e-mail with ATT scans in the next couple of days.

UJ in ME


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Burke
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 11:01 AM

I learned this hymn when I sang in the choir at a Billy Graham crusade in 1973. For comparison, take a look at these words for Exrpession from the Sacred Harp.

Expression 125
Lyrics: Caleb Jarvis Taylor, 1803
Meter: 11s (11,11,11,11)

Oh, Jesus, my Savior, I know Thou art mine;
For Thee all the pleasures of earth I resign.
Of objects most pleasing, I love Thee the best;
Without Thee I'm wretched, but with Thee I'm blessed.

Thou art my rich treasure, my joy and my love,
None richer possessed by the angels above;
For Thee all the pleasures of sense I forego,
And wander a pilgrim, despised below.

Thy Spirit taught me to know I was blind,
And taught me the way of salvation to find.
For when I was sinking in dreadful despair,
My Jesus relieved me and bid me not fear.


I have been told there is an older hymn that used the sentiment & metrical pattern of these hymns. "O Jesus my Saviour, to thee I submit" by Sarah (Mrs. Tygnal) Jones, who died in Mecklenburg County, VA in 1794. Its first publication was probably by Richard Allen in Philadelphia in 1801. There is also a broadside of it at the American Antiquarian Society, almost certainly later than 1801.


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Subject: Lyr Add: O Jesus, my Savior, I know thou art mine
From: Burke
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 12:52 PM

The Southern Harmony
uses a different tune & provide 7 verses for this 1803 version.

1. O Jesus, my Savior, I know thou art mine,
   For thee all the pleasures of sin I resign;
   Of objects most pleasing, I love thee the best,
   Without thee I'm wretched, but with thee I'm blest.

2. Thy Spirit first taught me to know I was blind,
   Then taught me the way of salvation to find;
   And when I was sinking in gloomy despair,
   Thy mercy relieved me, and bid me not fear.

3. In vain I attempt to describe what I feel,
   The language of mortals or angels would fail;
   My Jesus is precious, my soul's in a flame,
   I'm raised to a rapture while praising his name.

4. I find him in singing, I find him in prayer,
   In sweet meditation he always is near;
   My constant companion, O may we ne'er part!
   All glory to Jesus, he dwells in my heart.

5. I love thee, my Savior, I love thee, my Lord,
   I love thy dear people, thy ways, and thy word;
   With tender emotion I love sinners too,
   Since Jesus has died to redeem them from woe.

6. My Jesus is precious--I cannot forbear,
   Though sinners despise me, his love to declare;
   His love overwhelms me; had I wings I'd fly
   To praise him in mansions prepared in the sky.

7. Then millions of ages my soul would employ
   In praising my Jesus, my love and my joy
   Without interruption, when all the glad throng
   With pleasures unceasing unite in the song.


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Haruo
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 02:09 PM

Since I don't own a Sacred Harp and their online version doesn't have the music (which amazes me!), it'll be a while before I can check out Expression, but thanks ever so much for Imandra and the texts!

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Burke
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 05:06 PM

My link from Expression will take you to the music.


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: masato sakurai
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:02 PM

There were several tunes named AFFECTION before 1820 (See The Hymn Tune Index), none of which are by "E. F. Miller."
~Masato


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Haruo
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 09:20 PM

Thanks for the UMich link, Burke! I've only had fasola.org's Sacred Harp Index bookmarked, and it is musicless. BTW I really like the Southern Harmony's text (much better than the Sacred Harp's).

Uncle Jaque, I'm afraid the index you sent is too big for the machine. Appreciate the thought, but...

Thanks for the reference, Masato.

Leland


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 10:09 PM

Oy; I was afraid of that!

Like I said; in order to get decent resolution, we start pushing the envelopes file-size-wize.

Would you like me to cut that index down to size a bit (like to 30%) and give it another go, or is your machine still too constipated to deal with it for a while?

We get a little spoiled now that we are on cable, and it's easy to get carried away; what takes us six seconds to upload can take someone on the recieving end with a 56KBPM tele modem a half hour to download, if their ISP even lets it in the door at all. I've inadvertently strained a few relationships that way - but usually don't know how big a file is that I'm sending until I hear from some disgrundled friend or Family Member who got plowed under by it.

What I seem to be learning is that I need to edit my graphics into 2 seperate files; one to archive for high resolution printing, and another "mini" version to share on websites that allow it and as E-mail attachments. Even then, some files have a mysterious way of growing exponentially as soon as I att. them to an e-mail, and I have no idea why.

I tried to go to the TEXT-to-MIDI site, but the link seems to have gone dead. Do you have any other sources for the updated version?


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Burke
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:11 PM

Thank Masato for finding the Online Sacred Harp in the first place.

I had not noticed the difference in the 2 versions of the earlier hymn. I also prefer the 'pleasures of sin' over the 'pleasures of earth' line. I suspect the different verses is because of omitting different verses. I've sung this from a word only book (Lloyd's) almost as much as I've done the Sacred Harp version. I know it has some of the Southern Harmony verses. I'll check it later & see what else it has. In any case, I like these words much better than the Featherston words.

There's a streaming video of the Wooten's singing thier unpublished tune, which is the one I've learned from them. Sweet Is the Day is the name of the program. It starts about a minute into chapter 6. You really should watch the whole thing, though.

For your original question. Hope Publishing's web site lists a companion to the Worshiping Church. You could try to get hold of it & see what background the compilers provided. I found it listed in World Cat. as:
Companion to The worshiping church : a hymnal / Richard J. Stanislaw and Donald P. Hustad. Carol Stream, IL : Hope Pub. Co., c1993. ix, 403 p. ; 24 cm.


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Haruo
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 11:04 PM

Thanks, Masato! Thanks, Burke!

I've put in a purchase request for the Dictionary Companion to the Worshiping Church at the library.

I like the Southern Harmony words best, but haven't decided on the tunes yet.

I'm hoping someone will come up with the text of '"O Jesus my Saviour, to thee I submit" by Sarah (Mrs. Tygnal) Jones, who died in Mecklenburg County, VA in 1794. [Referred to by Burke above] Its first publication was probably by Richard Allen in Philadelphia in 1801. There is also a broadside of it at the American Antiquarian Society, almost certainly later than 1801.' How does one get a copy of a broadside at the AAqS?

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Burke
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 06:35 PM

I poked around in the AAS catalog & found 2 broadsides with the words. The first one should be available in some large university libraries as part of the microcard or microfiche collection Early American imprints, first series, you need the Evans number I've supplied. (This collection is being released electronically & may be found in some very large universities called Evans Digital Edition. It will be 1.5 years until the whole thing is out there & the cost to institutions is @$50,000.)

On the death of General Washington. Commander in chief of the combined forces of America and France, during the Revolutionary War, and afterwards president of the United States of America--who died December 14th, 1799. Evans 38157
Notes: In verse; first line: What solemn sounds the ear invade.
Followed by The Christian's song by a lady; first line: My soul's full of glory which fires my tongue; and Love to Christ; first line: O Jesus my Saviour, to thee I submit.

The Christian's song / written by a young lady ; together with a hymn called Love to Christ. Love to Christ, first line: O Jesus my Savior, to thee I submit. (not on microform)

Richard Allen published 2 books in 1801, that look like possibilities. Microcards & Microfiche of these books have been produced & are available in a collection called Early American imprints.; Second series. I suspect that more libraries have the 1st series than the 2nd or both. You'll need the number I've provided with each.

A collection of hymns & spiritual songs from various authors. 88 p. Philadelphia : Printed by T.L. Plowman,; United States; Pennsylvania; Philadelphia. Early American imprints.; Second series ; no. 38.

A Collection of spiritual songs and hymns selected from various authors. 72 p. Early American imprints.; Second series ; no. 39.


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Subject: RE: Love to Christ by Sarah Jones, a Lady
From: Haruo
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 02:52 AM

Thanks, Burke. Turns out Brown University is the only library in the country that OCLC shows as owning the actual On the death of General Washington broadside you mention. So I have put an Interlibrary Loan request in on it. Not hoping they'll actually send it to me, but just that they'll send me a photocopy. Failing that I may have to see if there are any helpful-feeling 'Catters in Rhode Island. BTW OCLC shows "38517", not "38157", and calls it a "Shipton and Mooney" number, not "Evans" (though elsewhere I did find references to the Evans numbers). Do you know if you might have copied the number wrong? (I gave ILL both numbers.)

Leland


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Burke
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 02:17 PM

It's definately Evans 38157, I double checked in the bibliography itself. Shipton and Mooney is a title index to Evans. It uses the Evans numbers. I don't know why a cataloger would list it that way instead of as Evans. Whoever it was managed to flip the numbers because 38157 is the number there as well.

Few institutions are willing to even photocopy an old publication like this. You should try to find the microprint. The micro set is >40,000 titles & all titles are not in OCLC. Few libraries have all of the individual titles listed in their catalogs either.

The number comes from:
Author: Evans, Charles, 1850-1935.
Title: American bibliography; a chronological dictionary of all books, pamphlets, and periodical publications printed in the United States of America from the genesis of printing in 1639 down to and including the year 1820. Vol. 10.

The Microprint is:
Early American imprints, 1639-1800 [microprint text of titles listed in Charles Evans' American bibliography] Clifford K. Shipton, editor.   Worcester, Mass. : American Antiquarian Society : New York : Readex Microprint, [1955-63] The microfiche was issued in the 1980's Check in OCLC for a library near you that has the set. There are half a dozen records you'll need to check the holdings on. You can get to it by limiting your search to publications after 1950, otherwise, you'll get too large a search result.

I'm thinking you're in Washington & I can tell you that the University of Washington has the 118 box microprint set. Libraries within the state may be able to get copies made from it. The publisher might be willing to sell you the single microfiche or a print copy from it. You can contact them at: sales@newsbank.com. You could also ask them what libraries near you have the set. They know.


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Haruo
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 08:56 PM

I posted the Southern Harmony's text in my online hymnal, but set to Affection.

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Burke
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 06:25 PM

Thanks. The link to the Expression midi does not work.

Several years ago I was referred to an article that I finally requested on ILL. Now that I have it, I have discovered there is yet another hymn that follows the form of this hymn. It's by John Adam Granade, called "I love thee, I love thee, I love thee, my love."

At least 2 publications of it are in:
Pious Songs: social, Prayer, Closet, and Camp Meeting Hymns and Choruses. 3d ed., enl. and improved. Baltimore: Armstrong and Berry, 1836. Methodist

Mason, Thomas Zion's Songster; or, a Collection of Hymns and Spiritual Songs, Usually Sung at Camp-Meetings, adn Also in Revivals of Religion. 10th ed. New York: Harper and Brothers, 1841. Methodist.

Here's the article I got this from:
Hulan, Richard "John Adam Granade: the 'Wild Man' of Goose Creek," in Western Floklore v. 33, no. 1 (1974) p.77-87

I think I'll finally send him a message & ask for the words. The answer is usually that it's buried in a box, so don't hold your breath.


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Haruo
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 11:56 PM

Yeah, I'm working on my Expression midi; it'll be up in a few days.

If you get the words to the Granade song, pass 'em on! And if it helps when you're asking for them, you may say there's more than one of us what wants 'em (alluding to me).

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Haruo
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 03:52 PM

The "Expression" MIDI is up now. Here.

Leland


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Haruo
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 12:17 AM

Turns out what Hope was calling "Affection" and ascribing to E F (apparently Emily!) Miller is the same tune the Cyber Hymnal ascribes to J. Ellis, and gives as the tune for "Boundless Salvation", by General Booth. I'm inclined to think they're right. Are there any Salvationists hereabouts who can check on that for me? Supply any further info on J Ellis?

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Haruo
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 08:55 PM

Well, the library managed to get a print of the 1801? broadside (Evans 38157), so I will shortly be posting "The Christian's song" and "Love to Christ" in my hymnal. Both are metrically suited to the tunes here discussed.

Haruo


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Subject: Lyr Add : The Christian's Song and Love to Christ
From: Haruo
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 10:05 PM

Here it is: The Christian's Song and Love to Christ by a lady.

Haruo


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Subject: RE: From Dictionary of American Hymnology @Oberlin
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 05:07 AM

Mary Louise VanDyke, the librarian of the Dictionary of American Hymnology, based at Oberlin, sent me this in response to my query on the subject of this thread:
I assume your query is related to the origin of tunes and we specialize in texts. However, you may be interested in these quotations from Leonard Ellinwood's Essay on Hymns of Confused Authorship, which is copyrighted with the Dictionary of American Hymnology. As the entry for "My Jesus, I love thee, I know" Ellinwood writes: A copy of this hymn has recently been discovered as an anonymous text on page 640 of THE PRIMITIVE METHODIST MAGAZINE published in London, England, on October, 1862. Earlier it had been believed that William Ralph Featherston of Montreal, aged sixteen, had sent the text to an aunt in Los Angeles who urged him to have it published. It was reputed to have been published first in the LONDON HYMN BOOK (1864 edition) compiled by C.R. Hurditch, a London worker in the YMCA. Recently also, William Volk of Princeton, NJ, found the text in a letter written by William Anderson and dated January 26, 1865. Anderson was a volunteer with Battery B, First New Jersey Artillery, serving with the Army of the Potomac in Grant's drive to Richmond and Petersburg from 1863 until critically wounded. The letter was written from a hospital in Beverly, NJ, to his wife in Flemington, NJ. It is quite possible that he learned the hymn through YMCA contacts which were strong between Montreal, England and the States at that time. The earliest American publication appears to have been in Dwight L. Moody's NORTHWESTERN HYMN BOOK (Chicago: 1868) and Joseph Hillman's THE REVIVALIST (Troy, NY: 1868). Moody had been leading prayer meetings in the London YMCA the year before and may well have learned the hymn there. The hymn remained anonymous until the publication of the Wesleyan Methodist SACRED HYMNS AND TUNES (Syracuse, NY: A.W.Hall, 1902) where Featherston is named as the author for the first time. During his short lifetime, Featherston was a member of the Wesleyan Methodist Church in Montreal." And Ellinwood's entry for "O Jesus, my Savior, to thee I submit" contains this information: "O Jesus, my Savior, to thee I submit" is first found in Richard Allen's COLLECTION OF SPIRITUAL SONGS AND HYMNS SELECTED FROM VARIOUS AUTHORS (Philadelphia: 1801) which he compiled for his African Methodist Episcopal Church. It next is found in Jeremiah Ingalls' CHRISTIAN HARMNONY (Exeter, N.H.: 1805). Then it is in Stith Mead's GENERAL SELECTION (Richmond, VA: 1807) where it is attributed to Mrs. Sarah Jones. She had died in 1794, having lived all of her life in southern Virginia where she had close contact with the itinerant Methodist preachers. Because of the variants of this hymn as published in the above collections, ranging from New Hampshire to Virginia, it is appearent that it circulated in oral tradition before it was published. Stanzas two through seven soon came into use as a separte hymn, again with variants due to oral transmission. There is another hymn which shares only the first-line of Sarah Jones' second stanza, also published by Stith Mead in 1807. There it is anonymous, but in Thomas S. Hinde's PILGRIM'S SONGSTER (Chillicothe, OH: 1815) it is attributed to John Granade. There was an edition of Hinde's collection in 1810 but no copies have been located. Thereafter, both versions of "I love thee" were widely circulated, sometimes anonymously and other times either version has been attributed to Granade." Ellinwood quotes both versions, Mrs. Sarah Jones' , which begins "O Jesus, my Saviour, to thee I submit..." and one questionably by Granade which begins "I love thee, I love thee, I love thee, my love". Since these texts are associated with very old tunes, perhaps Nicholas Temperley's Hymn Tune Index would be of some help to you. I'm afraid this doesn't answer your question, but you may find it of interest.

Mary Louise VanDyke
for Dictionary of American Hymnology, Oberlin College Library
... to which I replied:
Dear Mary Louise,

Thanks for the data! In this case my interest is in both the textual and the melodic history (and their intertwining), and what you sent provides much info I didn't have about the textual end. However, it does not seem to mention the earliest publication of the "submit" text (which contains a "i love thee xX" stanza), namely the 1800? broadside on Washington's death from which I took the text for my online hymnal. Here is that text (it is not clear to me whether "The Christian's Song" and "Love to Christ" are to be taken as two separate poems/hymns, or as two parts of a single one):

URL in my online hymnal: http://www.geocities.com/cigneto/thctxt/en/mysoulsfu1.html

and I then quoted that page in its entirety.

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: GUEST,Dick Hulan
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 09:19 PM

I just hit this on a search about something else. I don't believe Burke, whoever that is, actually got around to asking me about this text, which has been discussed by me in my MA thesis and elsewhere.

I also don't think requests to me are usually answered to the effect that the information is buried in a box. Most of my folk hymnody collection is readily accessible, and I answer queries about it regularly on the Fasola Discussions list... if asked. I don't know from Mudcat, just hit this thread while Googling camp-meeting broadsides. And I realize it's not especially hot, the discussion having taken place last year.

The things that are buried in boxes (in my garage, unless Burke asked me something over 5 years ago, when the said boxes were in the basement of a different house) are of little value to the world at large, and little interest to me. But even those are still out there; I rarely get around to throwing things away.

Dick Hulan
Springfield VA


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Haruo
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 10:04 PM

Thanks Mr. Hulan. I very much doubt Burke meant anything personal by that aside about a box. I think he meant when you ask anybody on average for details about research they did a decade ago or whatever, the answer is usually that it's buried in a box.

I must get back on the Fasola Discussions list, and ask you some things... ;-)

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Haruo
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 11:33 PM

(refresh)

See my blog post My Jesus, I Love Thee/Boundless Salvation.

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: sian, west wales
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 04:50 AM

I offer the following solely on the "elimination of suspects" principle.

Some years ago Huw Williams published 2 collections of information on hymn tunes used in Wales and he has this under "Affection":

AFFECTION (M.H.), 123. This comes from "Psalmody harmonised in score, with accompaniment for organ and pianoforte" (John Greenwood: Halifax, 1838), a volume which is often referred to as "Greenwood's Psalmody." It is collected in the current collection from "The Church Hymnary" (1927 / 471). The musician, John Greenwood - a teacher in Leeds - blossomed around 1790 - 1840.

The above is a translation from the Welsh and I've left 'blossomed' as is ... although it doesn't sound so 'cute' in Welsh!

I'll take a look in some of the older hymn books later to see if it's there. I only have the newer ones to hand, and I don't see it.

sian


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: GUEST,GUEST, Tim Henderson
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 12:56 PM

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/mid/a/f/affection.mid

has this tune for Affection allegedly from Greenwood's psalmody - but it doesn't match the blog post midi tune !


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Snuffy
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 08:43 AM

How about "flourished", Siân?


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: sian, west wales
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 10:50 AM

Yeh, that might be it, Snuffy, although one tends to think of groups, rather than individuals, 'flourishing'. At least, in this day and age.

Tim H., no - I assumed it wouldn't be a match but masato had referred to the listings in the Hymn Tune Index which I found interesting, but seemed not to include this one. So, in grand Mudcat tradition, I just threw it into the pot.

Interesting thread, and I reckon Sarah (Mrs. Tygnal) Jones, had to be of Welsh descent either herself and/or by marriage.

sian


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Burke
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 09:36 PM

Love to Christ

O Jesus my Saviour, to thee I submit,
With love and thanksgiving fall down at they feet:
In sacrifice offer my soul, flesh and blood,
Thou art my Redeemer, my Lord and my God.

I love thee, I love thee, I love thee, my love,
I love thee, my Saviour, I love thee, my dove;
I love thee, I love thee, and that thou dost know,
But how much I love thee, I never can show.

All human expressions are empty and vain:
They cannot unriddle this heavenly flame:
I'm sure if the tongue of an angel were mine,
I could not this myst'ry completely define.

I'm happy, I'm happy, O wond'rous account!
My days are immortal, I stand on the mount:
I gaze on my treasure; and long to be there,
With Jesus and angels, my kindred so dear.

O Jesus my Saviour, with thee I am blest!
My life and salvation, my joy and my rest!
Thy name be my theme, and thy love be my song;
Thy grace shall inspire my heart and my tongue.

O, who's like my Saviour? He's Salem's bright King;
He smiles and he loves me, and learns me to sing;
I'll praise him, I'll praise him, with notes loud and shrill,
While rivers of pleasure my spirit doth fill.

This is a broadside:
The top third is a poem entitled:
On the death of General Washington. Commander in chief of the combined forces of America and France, during the Revolutionary War, and afterwards president of the United States of America--who died December 14th, 1799. [United States : s.n., 1800?] Evans 38157

The bottome 3rd is titles "The Christian's Song. By a Lady. The text I've typed above is preceeded by another poem of the same meter, but set off with it's own title.


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 12:10 AM

Just a note that "My Jesus, I Love Thee," No. 153, Anon., A. J. Gordon, 4 verses as given at the start of this thread, also is in:

Sankey, Ira D., James McGranahan and Geo. C. Stebbins, 1896, "Sacred Songs No. 1," The Biglow & Main Co., NY, Chicago.

Advent Christian Publication Society, 1898, 1902, "The Golden Sheaf," No. 184, cited from London Hymn Book, A. J. Gordon.


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Subject: RE: Hymn tune named Affection
From: GUEST,Linda
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 07:56 PM

Could someone please tell me where the expression "And say, when the death dew lies cold on my brow;" derives from? Thanks so much, Linda


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