Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 17 Jan 03 - 01:01 PM

What about 'lách'? (that's la/ch in case the fada on the 'a' didn't come through)?

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Haruo
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 11:28 PM

Guest Q, you say we have "dropped the feminine simpatica", but I would guess we never really had it. I think "simpatica" in English is a humorous variant, akin to "macha" or "loca". I presume you're thinking of it because of its occurrence in the 1864 OED citation, but note the noun it describes! I don't think the same writer would have said "Mrs. Jones was less 'simpatica.'" Because Mrs. Jones is a straight-faced person to talk about, while "The Frau-Professorin" is, before her title is out of your mouth, a catalyst of wit. English is quite stingy with its tolerance for gender in adjectives.

As for the á, that's only in the Spanish etymon; in its Italian cognate, which is probably whence it entered English (notwithstanding its recent popularity in the US SW), it is naked of diacriticism.

As for a Gaelic word being "necessary", of course not, but if we only used the words that were necessary this would be a pretty skimpy Café dontcha think?!

Alice, you write "I just looked in my Irish-English dictionary, and simpatico is not there"; this comes as no surprise, but also as no proof. If you try using it in conversation with Irish-speakers, imbedded in Irish sentences, and are generally understood and no one objects, then lo and behold if it wasn't previously it is now an Irish word, and the fault is the dictionary's.

"The word most like simpatico I found was under sympathetic (likeable) 'báúil'." I don't know a whole lot of Irish ;-|, but my guess is that Declan's 'Dlúth-chara' is closer, in terms of emotive semantics. But of course it's an adjective, not a noun.

Haruo

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 03:09 PM

Bingo Guest Q, I agree.

Like I said some time back, I doubt they would use a Gaelic word or phrase. If/when they reach for a word, they probably grab simpatico, just like English speakers do.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 02:20 PM

Declan's word is close. Simpatico came into English because it is a one-word way to express what otherwise would be a phrase. I understand most Irish speak English; I can't understand why a Gaelic word is necessary.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Declan
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 10:34 AM

Another phrase that has sprung to mind is Dlúth-chara, which I think translates approximately as an inseperable friend.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Alice
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 08:42 PM

I just looked in my Irish-English dictionary, and simpatico is not there.

The word most like simpatico I found was under sympathetic (likeable) "báúil".

Alice

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Snuffy
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 08:28 PM

Isn't Ceilidh the Scottish version? I thought the Irish was Ceili. So Kayleigh could well be English.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 01:33 AM

Compatiable should read compatible... at least in my American Heritage Dictionary. Typos are trippy. ttr

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:59 AM

Simpatico- we have dropped the feminine simpatica, hardly the PC thing to do. Neither Webster's nor the OED retains the acute accent over the letter a. Truly an English word in its present form, as Haruo says.

Another English word (since 1875) is Ceilidh, whose spelling needs to be modernized- suggest Kayley. (Looking for a place to hide)

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Haruo
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:24 AM

compatiable - yeagh!

How somebody can take a word that's attested in the OED from 1864, in what appears to be the same general sense in which it's current today, and say it's "not English" - now, that's beyond me. Sounds at least as English as ketchup.

Haruo

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Shall
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:06 AM

I checked with Amazon and placed an order for the Irish Grammar: A Basic Handbook, Oxford Pocket Irish Dictionary and Focloir Poca English-Irish Irish -English Dictionary. Looks like I will have some heavy reading to do in a few days. Thank you for your comments and direction.
Simpatico-of like mind or temperament; compatiable. Having attractive qualities, pleasing.(American Heritage Dictionary)

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 12:19 PM

Darnit! I read through the whole thread intending to post the mañana joke, only to find that I've been beaten to the draw yet again!

BTW, I don't think buan-chara or anything like that gets the point, because as I understand it, "simpatico" describes an innate, immediate and unilateral characteristic of the person referred to, independent of who he/she might form friendships with. That's certainly the sense in which the equivalent French word "sympathique" is used.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From:
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 11:02 AM

For sure, Jim! Great one. Tapadh leibh.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 10:46 AM

There's a story about a Spaniard asking a Highlander if there was a Gaelic word for 'mañana'.
His reply 'I don't think we have a word which expresses the same degree of urgency'.
Slainte,
Jim McLean

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 02:04 PM

...or "compatible with"... thanks for the kind words... ttr

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 01:51 PM

Give up! Simpático is simpático!

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 01:40 PM

oiriúnach do means suitable for, I don't think it can be used in the context desired ...

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 01:37 PM

How about 'oiriunach (do)'..., or 'anam ceile'... or 'go comhuaineach sasuil'... So, it's all for the best if we don't ask me how to pronounce them though... ;^) ttr

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 01:06 PM

Declan, you can read a bit about John O'Donohue here:

http://www.carlmccolman.com/odonohue.htm

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 12:55 PM

De Bhaldraithe's dictionary is probably the best for English to Irish, but I don't know if "simpatico" (not English) is in it.
It's usually best to back check with an Irish-English dictionary (Ó Donaill)to be sure the translation given is correct in the sense you want to use it. that method would apply to any language you are translating

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Shall
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 10:50 AM

Is there a dictionary available that translates from English to Gaelic? I am interested in the Irish Gaelic. I was in Ireland in 2001, I asked several of our B&B host about different words. They confessed that they had nearly forgotten the language (Gaelic) lessons they had in school. I considered their ages, over 50, and completely understood. I am in the same age group, the things I have forgotten in the past years....................

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Declan
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 05:58 AM

As others have said context is everything in translation.

I don't know who this John O Donoghue is but "anam cara" is simply putting the word for soul next to the word for friend and is not, in my opinion very good Irish. Cara m'anam friend of my soul would be a better form of translation, but not a phrase I've heard in everyday use. "Caire mo chléibh" is a phrase used in a few songs I know (e.g Tá mé mo shuí) which means a bosom friend/companion. Another phrase might be cara dhílis (a faithful friend).

I've just noticed that the word cáirdiúl is very similar to cordial in English (and French). The words probably come from a common root.

Cómh-bhrón (shared sorrow) is an Irish word for sympathy, but not in the context of the word that we're talking about.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST,ceejay
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 11:18 PM

'buan-chara' in Irish can mean 'a firm friend' or 'friend for life', maybe even 'eternal friend'.'Báúil' also means sympathetic. In Irish it would be more likely that the construction would be noun-based rather than adjectival-based. In English you might say 'he is very simpatico' but in Irish it would be constructed 'he is a simpatico person'. It is very true that trying to translate single words outside of any spoken or written context only leads to frustration, much better to translate the meaning of an entire phrase. Often the nicest translation (and one that comes nearest to the original meaning in the other language) can be far removed from any literal substituting of one word for another, which is really more like decoding and can lead to quite hilarious unintentional results. The Chinese are experiencing this right now as they review all their English-language public sinage in preparation for the Olympics.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Brían
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 09:58 PM

There are adjectives in the Irish language that might be similar. Cineálta, or kind is one as well as Cairdiúil which I have already mentioned. An Irish expression that seems to come closer to what people seem to be getting at is mór le duine or great with someone, they really hit it off.

Brían

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 04:35 PM

Actually, the more I think about this, the more I think most Irish speakers would just use the word "simpatico" and likely wouldn't use an Irish word. As others have pointed out, there is no English word which is equivalent. I would guess the same is true for Irish. When that happens, the Irish, just like English speakers do, use the word itself, which doesn't translate. Nowadays, you hear Irish speakers using many contemporary usage words that aren't Irish, but may be English, French, etc. and have crept into usage in the same ways those words have in other languages.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Felipa
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 09:12 AM

If you mean nice, you could say "gasda" or "gasta" - in Scots Gaelic; a word that sounds the same usually means speedy in Irish

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 08:11 PM

I wasn't aware of it, but the word has a long history of usage in English because there is no substitute.
OED: E. M. Forster, "Where Angels Fear to Tread," 1905. "The person who understands us at first sight, who never irritates us, who never bores....that is what I mean by simpatico.
OED: H. Sidgwick, "Memoir," 1864. The Frau Professorin was less 'simpatica.'

Webster's Collegiate: Being on the same wavelength (no date). First known date- 1864 (same ref. as the OED).

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 07:34 PM

Mesophist has the right reading on simpático. Living for many years in New Mexico, Texas, and in frequent contact with Mexican citizens the word is often used in referring to a close (bosom) buddy with shared interests and attitudes.
One must use a Mexican-English dictionary because the usage in unknown in Spanish-English word books.
Many of us, Latino or gringo, who live or have lived in the southwestern States, use the word in our own relationships because there seems to be no real English equivalent.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Brían
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 06:31 PM

Cairdiúil or friendly.

Brían

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 06:24 PM

In Mexican, a person who is 'simpático' is a person you could work beside, live next door to, go camping with, or help to rob a bank; all in a spirit of trust and comfort. Don't make the mistake of thinking words ONLY mean what the dictionary says. In Spanish, this is a special word.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 02:01 PM

Yeah, "simpático" is a Spanish word, too, at least according to all the Spanish online dictionaries I just checked. Seems to mean "nice" in Spanish, though.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 01:39 PM

Oh yeah, and what's the context? Give us the sentence you're translating, not just the word; makes it easier.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 01:39 PM

Scots or Irish Gaelic?

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From:
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 01:23 PM

MacFarlane's Dictionary

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From:
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 01:21 PM

Weird! Try #3

MacFarlane's Dictionary
McBain's Dictionary

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 12:38 PM

George, neither link worked for me just now.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Shall
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 12:35 PM

Thank you, everyone, for your help.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 12:24 PM

So, I'm guessing that Hispanics in the US use simpatico the same way English speakers do, borrowing it from the Italian. It is a common term among Spanish speaking Americans.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 12:07 PM

"Anam Cara" is a shorthand that seems to have been reinvented for contemporary use by the Irish poet and author, John O'Donohue. He translates it to mean "soul friend" which would be a rough approximation of the special connection between two like-minded people alluded to in the word "simpatico".

Here is the Amazon.com website for the book "Anam Cara: A Book of Celtic Wisdom" by O'Donohue:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/006092943X/002-3434247-8488059?vi=glance

Not being a native Irish speaker, I wouldn't really know if there is an equivalent to simpatico. There often aren't (pardon my pun) sympathetic words when moving from one language to another.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From:
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 12:03 PM

Oops! My mistake. I left out an l at the end. Here is the corrected one as well as a second dictionary:

MacFarlane's Dictionary
McBain's Dictionary

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From:
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 11:59 AM

Cairdeas = Friendship

Caraid = Friend

You might check out the online Gaelic Dictionaries at

http://www.ceantar.org/Dicts/MB2/index.htm

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST,Roberto
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 11:58 AM

The Spanish for the italian "simpatico" should be "cordial", "comprensivo". At least, this is the translation provided by a Dictionary OnLine. The word "simpatico" seems not to exist in Spanish. Roberto

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 11:50 AM

I think the reason English speakers use "simpatico" instead of just saying "nice" is that there are connotations of simpatico that are not translatable into English. Simpatico is more than being friendly. It does connote a connection in the relationship that is a kind of bond between two like-minded people.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 11:45 AM

Italian... and Spanish, no?

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 11:44 AM

Simpatico, although it is Spanish, is a word definitely used by English speakers in the US, although you won't find it common in every region. In context, "To have a voice teacher as simpatico as Suzanne has made a tremendous difference in learning to sing." "To find simpatico Mudcatters in the chat room makes Mudchat an addictive pastime." "An audience that is simpatico turns a performance into a bonding experience." "She was so simpatico that we became fast friends from the day we met."

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST,Roberto
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 11:44 AM

Simpatico is an Italian adjective. When said of a person, it means that that person is nice; likeable; pleasant, agreeable.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 11:21 AM

Anam cara?

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 11:01 AM

Yes, I imagine that there are many...

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 10:45 AM

Simpatico means similiar like-minded compatibility, as in a congenial friendship.

Subject: RE: Gaelic - Word for 'Simpatico'?
From:
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 10:16 AM

Do you mean sympathy?