BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: jimmyt
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 10:09 AM

pretty good line.................but if I had discovered the internet, the possibilities would have been endless on how clever I could have been.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Sam L
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 09:05 AM

I missed the defoliant line?

Musta been when I was posting some photos.

I liked Gore's line back when Bush Sr. was calling him Ozone, calling Clinton and Gore Crazy, and Bozos--Gore said "He seems to like 'z's".

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: jimmyt
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 10:12 PM

I guess the fact that August 27th hasn't arrived yet, and the polkadot dress made me think it was going to be like "a duck walked into a bar"   I didn't think much of my defoliant line either! Sorry, not good material!

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 07:55 PM

1,000 X 1,000 = 1 Million Hilary clones, enough to fill every important political job on the country. There is no punch line coming. sorry jimmyt, but your defoliant crack was not primetime material either. Fred could help, but he is reconditioning his A-bomb shelter in preparation for Aug 27. Provisioned with lots of dried veggies.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: jimmyt
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 06:41 PM

and????????????/ I feel a punch line coming on

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 06:00 PM

On August 27th, 1,000 UFO's landed, all over the US. As each one opened it's door, out came 1,000 Hilary Clinton clones, each dressed in a polka dot dress...

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 04:13 PM

She's a tough one. Did you see the thing about the tabloid headline concerning her supposed torrid nightly rendezvous(s) with the handsome alien gent aboard his UFO? Ha! Ha! The press asked her about it and she said something to the effect of: "That is untrue. We only went out to dinner once." LOL!!! Nice answer, Hilary.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: jimmyt
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 01:54 PM

I am a conservative who didn't hate Clinton! I kinda got a kick out of him!! Our stock in Europe certainly went up! I spoke with lots of folks while travelling who who admired him!!!I do not think as much of the missus, however!

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 01:07 PM

I thought rhinoceroses couldn't jump either. And what about hippos? The makeup/mixture of your posts sounds exactly like mine, pdq. Yup, definitely friends.

Regarding Clinton, I think the main real reason the Republicans hated him was that he was so good at winning elections and staying in power.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 12:17 PM

What a long thread! Didn't have time to read it all, but I thought you may enjoy this web page:

Conservative or liberal? QUIZ
http://www.selectsmart.com/politics.html

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 12:02 PM

Did you know that the elephant is the only mammal that can't jump?

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Sam L
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 09:40 AM

Hey Jimmyt, didn't you see the empty chair saved for you when you came in?
Gee, it's very kind of you pdq to point out my tendency to kill threads. I was hoping I was the only one who'd noticed that.

My liberal mother is still teaching english and when my grammar lapses I revel that she isn't around to correct me. "Of what are liberals made"?--bleah.

Represent working people? I am a working people. Granted, so are some conservative folks, but we strike certain deals together. I'm a liberal vegetarian artist and my buddy John is a conservative engineer deer hunter. He wants me to paint a big abstract expressionist picture for him in a camoflage pattern, to go with his other camo furnishings. It's so funny I might do it. But he doesn't want to believe me that the president of PETA is a nascar enthusiast.

Maybe Goldwater was the first, but I think I've heard that Clinton had some sort of notable whitewater experience too.

I'm sore and worn out. Work yesterday was so busy, we were so swamped, the boss said It's just like the old days. I said yeah, it feels like the Clinton administration. Not that I'm a clinton liberal--I think conservatives hate him so much because he's a conservative who traitorously talks liberal. You get the same hangover without the grand old party.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 12:44 AM

Little Hawk: Note that some of my posts are comical, some are thoughtful, some are silly, some are just intended to throw fat on the fire "to hear it sizzle". Fred Miller can see that, and you should be able to see it too. Conservative is a relative term, but it is never synonymous with cretin. Friends?

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 11:14 PM

You couldn't be more right, Jimmy. Oh, I am so humiliated! :-) Well, zinfandel is okay (had a girlfriend who loved it), but given my druthers I like Canadian and German white wines the best, but not too dry.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: jimmyt
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 09:26 PM

Little Hawk, at least have the good taste to drink a reisling or a pinot grigio! White zinfandel is so 80s yuppie! and I know that doesn't characterise you at all!ps is ironical a word? is it something that just surpasses ironic? just wondering. goodnight gracie!

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 08:58 PM

Good, cogent points there, pdq. :-)

You know, the thing about the classic "liberal" is...he/she represents the working people (supposedly)...but...and this is a BIG but...he/she is clearly a class or two above them at the same time! It's a subtle matter indeed.

Interestingly enough, the classic big bucks, tough-guy, socialist-hating, self-made, Daddy Warbucks type conservative also represents (so he claims) the working people (and may have sprung from their ranks in a few cases)...but...is clearly a class or two above them at the same time!

Ironical, isn't it? The real truth of the matter is that both of those classic political types secretly have a certain measure of contempt for the working people, I believe...in most cases. I'm sure there are some notable exceptions to these broad rules I've drawn, however. Wherever they are, we need them!

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 07:43 PM

Oh Fred, just looked at "BS: What are liberals made of". There is a gramatical error. The thread title ends in a preposition. This is something normal people may notice, but only anal-retentive pedants will care about. I also notice that many times your last statement will kill a thread. I must assume that you are opposed to the death penalty, so what do you call this? Euthanasia or perhaps anesthesia?

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 12:55 PM

Liberals always claim to represent the working people. That must just be on election day.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 12:51 PM

"Nuances", I mean...

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 12:34 PM

Ha! We lost track of that Wilco thread somehow, Jimmy. Nothing more to it than that. You know how it is...you get an escaped gorilla from the zoo bursting into your house in search of bananas and other fruit (not to mention entertaining thoughts of slinging your "significant other" over his hairy shoulder and rushing off into the forest with her to do God knows what...!) and you can get a little bit distracted for awhile...

Anyway, the dust settled and here I am. The Zinfandel is a great idea. I don't care for beer much but I like Zinfandel. I drink a little bit for the taste but never overindulge. I believe this makes me conservative when it comes to drinking.

pdq - The liberal would actually say "That doesn't count, because only rich people can afford a movie camera and besides, he was from Arizona and could get there a lot easier than someone from, say, upstate New York."

It's blue collar and redneck conservatives who use bad grammar like "that don't" and "'cause", causing liberals to regard them and all of their know-nothing opinions with pitying disdain. You will never rate membership in the Liberal Clubhouse if you don't master these little nunances of language. :-)

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: jimmyt
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 12:25 PM

Maybe the reason the Coorado runs through such desert is ole Barry had them drop those defoliant bombs to get rid of that pesky vegetation. Just a theory.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 12:10 PM

In all fairness to the artists, chainsaw sculptue can be very impressive, at least from a distance. Got my eye on a lady Indian made of heartwood Alder right now.

Anyone realize that Barry Goldwater was the first man to lead a whitewater expedition down the Colorado River with a movie camera, mid 1930's. Now a liberal will say "that don't count 'cause only rich people can afford a movie camera and besides, he was from Arizona and could get there a lot easier than someone from, say, upstate New York."

Join in jimmyt, I need all the help I can get to educate these guys!

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: jimmyt
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 10:01 AM

Well, I'll be damned!! I went looking for you space cadets in the old WIlco48 thread, alas you were gone.........I thought you had perhaps given up the thought, but alas, here you all are in the.. .of all places, another conservative threads!!! I am guessing some of you must have been kicked out of the liberal clubhouse.

Anyhow, Little Hawk, if that is true abour you refusing to wear a pink tutu or do ...whatever with Eastern European Soccer teams, you can forget the invitation to revive THE Odd Couple with me. ps I am a little hurt that you all left without telling me where to find you, am I to infer my own lack of welcome? I promise to bring beer (plus a lovely white Zinfandel for Little Hawk)

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 01:15 AM

Well, yeah, there's the Brazilian team...not bad, eh? :-)

I'm also conservative about whitewater rafting. After viewing the video of "The River Wild" tonight I have no desire whatsoever to do it under any circumstances! I am no fan of hypothermia. I believe our rivers should be well regulated so as to dissuade young fools from killing themselves in the rapids. This makes me quite conservative when it comes to water sports.

Good movie, by the way...

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Sam L
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 11:35 PM

oh yeah, I believe you. The sense of humor, the light touch. I would've guessed it. And--nobody is more convincingly disenchanted with "liberals" than a liberal. Full-blooded conservatives just snap at liberals the same way schoolboys pick on the girls they like. So, now are you going to be like one of those ex-smokers or recovered alcoholics and be mean to everyone else? I don't think so.

If you don't have more to add about yourself, would you mind if I invent your entire identity? It's fun for everyone, except the person who is being "deduced" from their posts (you). I do it at work a lot. That guy--is a rodeo clown. Whatshername--she makes chainsaw sculptures. In the movie of her life she would be played by Holly Hunter. Etc.

Hey Little Hawk--did you bring any beer? There are a couple other soccer teams don't look too bad, in the right lighting, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 10:26 PM

OK, pdq is Bach, er, back. If I told you I spent the last 1/3 of the twentieth century as a registered Democrat and voted solid Environmental, you would not believe me, and you would know how old I am. Did you notice that Amos can play "Ragged But Right" in a VI-II-V-I progression? Awsome, as the say in CA. Now that was about music, wasn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Sam L
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 09:05 PM

pdq, I feel your pain. But I guess that's not what you wanted to hear. Let's see--Any Conservatives on mudcat? Well, it depends what your definition of the word "any" is. ...I guess this isn't working.

Listen:

Crickets chirping.

Well, so, who are you? What're you doing lately ? I'm not a conservative on mudcat, but I like to think of myself as a Compassionate Liberal--I even supported the war. But why do people ridicule Al Gore "inventing" the internet and yet they give the president credit for "winning" a war? because in his role as a leader, Gore really did--wait--where are you going? LET'S TALK ABOUT MUSIC! PDQ?!?

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 08:41 PM

Well...to address the original question posed by this thread...I am moderately conservative in both dress and sexual mores. For instance, I refuse to wear pink tutus in public, and I will not copulate with farm animals or the Bulgarian National Soccer Team.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 08:11 PM

Knew I would find you here. Saw a subject you can really get into on another thread:
             "The Banjo, birth control and existentialism"

Yes, this would be the place to sit back and learn what conservatives think, if it were not for one thing.
               RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
                                     No

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Sam L
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 08:02 PM

It occurred to me later that you were probably just giving a shout out to your conservative homies, and I shouldn't intrude. Maybe I'd get to hear what y'all conservatives talk about amongst yourselves if I'd just shut up. I imagine things like "The bad news is my company is going to have to scale back on our illegal business practices, but the good news is we can downsize our legal department".

The horses I meant were the actual positive results of past liberal intitatives, which even most dyed in the wool conservatives today tend to appreciate the constructive value of. Even some of the most awful ones are lesser evils than doing without them.

Besides, did I mention it's also a dessert topping?

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 11:42 AM

Thanks, Fred, I do sell on eBay! The horses trotting around as liberals, born after Janis and Jimi died, are still being given the same battle plan from seventy years ago, even though most of it has been tried and most of it has not worked.

Anyway, Fred, it really isn't much of a Floor-wax!

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Sam L
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 09:08 AM

Pdq it's a little saddening to imagine that you read through this entire old thread and came up with "beating a dead horse" and "class warfare". A lot of live liberal horses trotting around these days were born in that 70 years, and to reject them all would make for a pretty rare antique collection of views. Bet you could sell it on E-Bay.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 12:37 AM

Mr. Webster died long before the liberal agenda was put forth...by FDR 70 years ago. The book definition of liberal does not work when liberalism has been beating the same horse and fomenting the same class war for almost 3/4 of a century.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: DougR
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 12:22 AM

I don't see your logic, Lurker. Who is advocating development of hydrogen to run our vehicles? Reorganizing Social Security so that young people today might have a chance for a better return on their investment in the future? Leaving no child behind educationally? Allowing the working class to keep more of the money they earn rather than giving it to the government? It's certainly not the liberals! It is a moderately conservative Republican president!

Don't rely too much on the dictionary definition of conservative and liberal to define either. Mr. Webster is not always right.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 12:16 AM

Most of the Republicans in power now are rather far from conservatism. While it is true that their economic policy is in line with American conservativism, their policies on civil liberties are quite radical. The conservative philosophy is to leave well enough alone, and fix only what has been changed from its previous, better position. The current government doesn't think like that at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Sam L
Date: 30 Jan 03 - 06:45 PM

I've often wondered how to call the politics in Sir Patrick Spens. I think yes, there are many conservatives on mudcat, enjoy hearing their views, and wind up thinking about them after I've said what I have to say, as I have here. But I still don't understand the anonymity--if you think something, why not sign it?

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 03 - 05:08 PM

I should think there are lots of conservatives in Mud Cat. Though Folk was highjacked by the Left during the Depression, it seems that it is now returning to the place Folk should call home. I am afraid some "give peace a chance" song chorded out on a guitar while someone sings simplistic lyrics off key doesn't count as folk. Besides the Left and it claim to PuesdoKnowledge and truth is as it looks - rediculious - Why a movement that has murdered at last count some 36 million of its own citizens is considered noble and enlightened ....... now that is the good subject of a song .... Ode to Joe, Pol, and Ho.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jan 03 - 02:34 PM

Well, Doug that's a bit like saying Socialism is alive and well and in power in England.

Just because the label is the same doesn't mean the goods are genuine.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: DougR
Date: 30 Jan 03 - 02:26 PM

McGrath: success in the eye of the beholder I guess. Right now, conservatism is alive and well in the U. S. As a matter of fact, the conservative philosophy is in the driver's seat in Washington. In the White House, the House, and the Senate. Right on, I say!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jan 03 - 01:11 PM

Jed, festering ain't nice! You're a good man for sticking to your own standards. Earning respect is better than scoring points any day.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jan 03 - 12:59 PM

washingtonpost.com

Justice Scalia's Lament

Tuesday, January 28, 2003; Page A20

SPEAKING RECENTLY in Fredericksburg, Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia made a remarkable
claim about the First Amendment's religion clauses. The "true tradition of religious freedom in America," he
said, was "a tradition of neutrality amongst religious faiths. The government will not favor Catholics,
Protestants, Muslims, Jews. . . . But the tradition was never that the government had to be neutral
between religiousness and nonreligiousness. That principle, however, has since been adopted by the
Supreme Court" over the past few decades. The justice attacked the Supreme Court's case law that has
sought to separate church from state more rigorously than the founders did as an example of what he
derisively termed the "living Constitution" -- "the new view . . . which says [the document] . . . means what
we think it ought to mean." Justice Scalia speaks passionately on this subject. But his history is
mischievous, and the principle he derives from it is dangerous.

In reality, the founding-era practice of religious neutrality was not one that even Justice Scalia today would
recognize as neutral. For while Justice Scalia's idea of government neutrality among religious groups had
some adherents at the time, it was not the principle that governed the early history of the American
republic. States retained established churches and religious tests for public service, for example. Congress
paid for missionary work among Native Americans. And many scholarly authorities emphatically did not
understand the First Amendment, as the justice now does, as putting Christianity on an even playing field
with other religions. Justice Joseph Story -- a celebrated early commentator on the Constitution -- wrote
in 1833, for example, that the point of the amendment was "not to countenance, much less to advantage
Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity," but to establish federal neutrality
between Christian sects and the states those sects dominated. "[I]t is impossible for those who believe in
the truth of Christianity as a divine revelation to doubt that it is the especial duty of government to foster . .
. it among all the citizens and subjects," he wrote. This sounds little like neutrality among religions. Justice
Scalia's Constitution, in other words, is just as "living" as the one he derides. He merely prefers to draw
the line in a different place.

The trouble is that he draws it in a place that would permit public religious exercises that endorse one
broad religious system -- Judeo-Christian monotheism -- at the expense of all other systems of belief and
would do so with the imprimatur of the state. Justice Scalia can pretend that certain school prayers, to cite
one example, are nondenominational, but any invocation of one God necessarily excludes Hindus as surely
as it excludes atheists. Protecting their consciences from state indoctrination may be, as Justice Scalia
laments, a deviation from the vision of religious freedom the First Amendment was originally intended to
enshrine. But America has changed since the 18th century, and the American understanding of the
principle the First Amendment stated -- Justice Scalia's understanding included -- has changed with it. In
contemporary America, governmental neutrality on religious matters should be true neutrality.

                         © 2003 The Washington Post Company

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: jimmyt
Date: 30 Jan 03 - 09:41 AM

Jed, I can appreciate your apologies, but you only wrote what you did out of frustration, and it tended to crystallize my thoughts,as well as many others. I for one am getting tired of unidentified posters either trolling or taking another identity. Someone used my name as guest yesterday, posting inflammatory material. I can't imagine what people derive from intentionally hurting others, but I can't imagine what motivates vandalism either.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Beccy
Date: 30 Jan 03 - 09:32 AM

Jed- Kudos....

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: JedMarum
Date: 30 Jan 03 - 09:14 AM

I hate to resurrect this discussion, but it's been festering in me since I posted to this thread ... while I may get irritated by the way some folks post anonymously, and demonize points of view opposed to their own from that anonymity - I am no better when I use the F word in defining the annonomous poster's character and liken them to our least attractive body part! My apologies to my fellow Mudcatters and GUESTS alike, for an argument very poorly phrased.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: Sam L
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 03:18 PM

That's too bad Jimmyt, because I found your posts really interesting, though I might not call all of the ideas in them alternate or exotic. I don't happen to agree on some points, but think I largely do on some others. Sorry if I seem closed-minded. Even more sorry to have butted in so much to this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: artbrooks
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 02:47 PM

GUEST,Frank Hamilton: my point was not the positive or negative utility of "separation of church and state", but that there had been a misquote from a historical document.

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 02:41 PM

And there were plenty of examples of religious persecution within the Colonies by the same people who had gone there to escape harassment at home, to serve as a warning. (And that same pattern continued, for example with the Mormons.)

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 12:28 PM

Artbrooks,

Although there is no specific wording "separation of church and states" it certainly is what the founding fathers had in mind. They saw that English laws were governed by religious institutions and were persecuting those who finally wound up in America for that reason.

Also, Thomas Jefferson was adamant on the subject of religion and the state. His idea of Christianity was something akin to what we think of as Unitariansim although that branch of religion had not yet been established.

The idea of the US being a "Christian" nation and the founding fathers wanted it that way is very murky. Jefferson would not have accepted what many fundamentalists view today as "Christian".

Tom Paine was an atheist, I believe.

We know about Ben Franklyn.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 12:21 PM

As people always says about communism - "Conservatism might look OK in theory, but it doesn't work out in practice. It goes against Human Nature."

Subject: RE: BS: Any conservatives on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 12:17 PM

Jimmyt,
I agree with you but the level of information out there is not always accurate. It comes from the meat-packing industry, the dairy industry, the drug corporations, and the tobacco companies. This is what I meant by not enough information.

Frank