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BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History

Amos 06 Jan 03 - 11:41 AM
Dead Horse 06 Jan 03 - 11:45 AM
GUEST 06 Jan 03 - 11:51 AM
Amos 06 Jan 03 - 11:56 AM
GUEST 06 Jan 03 - 12:02 PM
Amos 06 Jan 03 - 12:16 PM
GUEST,guest 2 06 Jan 03 - 02:20 PM
Rapparee 06 Jan 03 - 02:45 PM
GUEST 06 Jan 03 - 02:57 PM
GUEST,Q 06 Jan 03 - 06:08 PM
Cluin 06 Jan 03 - 07:32 PM
Little Hawk 06 Jan 03 - 08:31 PM
Amos 06 Jan 03 - 10:55 PM
Mark Cohen 06 Jan 03 - 11:24 PM
Amos 07 Jan 03 - 12:15 AM
Amos 07 Jan 03 - 12:16 AM
Mark Cohen 07 Jan 03 - 12:38 AM
Coyote Breath 07 Jan 03 - 12:59 AM
vectis 07 Jan 03 - 08:01 PM
SINSULL 07 Jan 03 - 08:14 PM
Amos 07 Jan 03 - 08:26 PM
GUEST 07 Jan 03 - 08:35 PM
Amos 07 Jan 03 - 08:43 PM
ballpienhammer 07 Jan 03 - 08:45 PM
Ebbie 07 Jan 03 - 10:46 PM
Bert 07 Jan 03 - 10:50 PM
Ebbie 07 Jan 03 - 10:50 PM
Mark Cohen 07 Jan 03 - 10:58 PM
mack/misophist 08 Jan 03 - 12:35 AM
Genie 08 Jan 03 - 12:41 AM
Stephen L. Rich 08 Jan 03 - 02:51 AM
Deckman 08 Jan 03 - 03:06 AM
alanabit 08 Jan 03 - 05:50 AM
Rapparee 08 Jan 03 - 06:33 AM
EBarnacle1 08 Jan 03 - 11:10 AM
Dead Horse 08 Jan 03 - 11:11 AM

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Subject: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 11:41 AM

On this day in 1521 Martin Luther was excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church. His primary sin was insisting that the authoritarian hierarchy erected by the Church of Rome (which stepped from sinners to priests tp bishops to cardinals to the Pope to God himself) was unnecessary, corrupt, and venal. He proposed that any individual had the same access to the Infinite as any other, the core concept at the heart of the Protestant Revolution.

An admirable man, it is perhaps difficult to imagine what the hour was like when he received this communique from the Church; I daresay it was a stressful and unnerving time for him.

But I do think we owe the man a vote of thanks!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Dead Horse
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 11:45 AM

Rather more thanks is due to Mr Morse, who on this day invented digital technology. Dashed if I know why......


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 11:51 AM

i'm sorrybutwhat do we have to thank him for?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 11:56 AM

Well, dear Nameless Friend, it's kinda like the definition of jazz or the cost of maintaining a private yacht sorta thing -- if ya gotta ask....


A


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 12:02 PM

so in other words you have no idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 12:16 PM

Oh, fie, shallow troll. I have more ideas than you can shake a stick at, but I refuse to be lead by nameless entities, unlike some theologians I could mention.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: GUEST,guest 2
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 02:20 PM

Just another theologian, best forgotten.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 02:45 PM

Hey, today is also Scruggs' (of Flatt and Scruggs fame) birthday!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 02:57 PM

And the date Gibson patented its "Flying V" electric guitar.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 06:08 PM

Today is the birthday of Tom Mix! Also, supposedly, Joan d'Arc.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 07:32 PM

Well, I'll drink a toast to Marty and Earl, then.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 08:31 PM

If there's anyone out there who doesn't refuse to be led by nameless entities, speak now or forever hold your peace... :-)

I can hardly think of a much greater contribution to human awareness than the proposition that "any individual has the same access to the Infinite as any other". It is the heart of spiritual democracy.

It is akin to the assertion that any individual has the same civil rights as any other.

Liberty, Equality, Fraternity!

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 10:55 PM

I fell in love with a girl a few lifetimes back who believed in those things, Little Hawk. I did everything I could think of to impress her, but she wouldn't even give me a tumbril...

A


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 11:24 PM

Well, tomorrow, which is today for most of you, is the 36th anniversary of my Bar Mitzvah. And Amos, tumbrel is spelled with an E. Unless you were thinking of Bovril...but she was probably a vegetarian, right?

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 12:15 AM

Right you are, mon vieux...see how rusty my past-life memory is?? :>) And congratulations on becoming a man. Some might say it was inevitable, but we know better! :>)

A


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 12:16 AM

(By the way, the American Heritage does list "tumbril" as the First Alternative Spelling, just for the record!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 12:38 AM

Well, far be it from me to devalue anything alternative.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 12:59 AM

I always liked Earl's music and Tom Mix was an early hero of mine, Martin Luther was OK and Joan was, well she was just Joan, it was a full-time job. As for Sam Morse's invention! I struggled with that dotty dasher's deeds for eons, never could get to the 25 words per minute required for the license. Built a 25 watt transmitter and bootlegged for a short while and then went into government service and was trained as a microwave technician. No, not ovens!! Got me to France for three years. Probably just as well I flunked the code part of the test, after all.

CB

PS tomorrow is a pretty good day too. The 8th of January!
nice fiddle tune and funny song by mr. Driftwood (but under a different name)


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: vectis
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:01 PM

Bob Copper born 6th January 1915.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:14 PM

In Catholic School I was taught that Martin Luther objected to the selling of "indulgences" by the Vatican to the wealthy. In other words, anyone who could afford it could barter away his or a relative's time burning in Purgatory before being made pure enough to enter the presence of god. Kind of like what triggered the draft riots in Civil War NYC. At any rate, Luther challenged the "omnipotence" of the Pope. So...even though his heart was in the right place, he was wrong. He of course went to hell. No hope of buying his way out of Purgatory which, I believe, no longer exists. Nor does Limbo,where all unbaptized babies were sent. No indulgences option there.

Sorry for the ravings. Stream of Consciousness, really.

His contribution to history? Religious warfare????


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:26 PM

Mary --

Indulgences was certainly one of the symptomatic problems, but the deeper issue was the usual mix of corruption and authority that seeps in to any power center that doesn't have to earn its keep.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:35 PM

If you will not have me, let me go


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:43 PM

I do, I do!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: ballpienhammer
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:45 PM

Ya know, you folks missed a very important birthday anniversary. None other than Mr. Elvis Presley, who, I might add, is alive and well, living with Bob Marley and Lawrence Welk in Tahiti. Or is it ON Tahiti? Anyway, Happy Birthday, Elvis. You, Billie Jean and Nat Cole will always Kings to me!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 10:46 PM

I believe, ballpienhammer, that Elvis' birthday is tomorrow: January 8th. Or is that Richard Nixon's? Both?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Bert
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 10:50 PM

Dashed if I know why...... I love it Dead Horse. Even if everyone else missed it.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 10:50 PM

I just google-checked: Elvis on the 8th; Nixon on 9th.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 10:58 PM

And John Hancock on the 12th. Which I happen to know because it's also mine. Di-di-di-dit Dah-di-di-dit Di-di-dah-dah-dah Dah-dah Dit.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: mack/misophist
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:35 AM

A little known tale about Martin: On his first trip to Rome, the delegation took along a keg of Bock beer. They wanted to ask the pope to let the older monks drink it as a tonic during Lent or other fasts. When he tasted it, the pope said they could have it whenever they wanted, as a penance.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:41 AM

ballpienhammer, when you posted, it was not yet "The King's" birthday. Elvis was born on Jan. 8, which it NOW is, EST.

(Is Tupelo Eastern or Central time?)

Genie


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 02:51 AM

Amos -- let us not forget the contribution (albeit inadvertant) made by Mr. Guttenberg whose printing innovation made the spread of Martin Luther's ideas possible.It may, indeed, have been part of what sparked the ideas themselves.

Stephen Lee


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Deckman
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 03:06 AM

Well Mark, in honor of your anniversery, let me be the first to say ... "Hauskaa Syntomapaivaa! CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:50 AM

I am not sure that Martin Luther's contribution was religious warfare. From what I know of him he was not a loveable man and I find a lot of what he said and wrote quite repugnant. For all that, I am very glad that he challenged the authority of the Pope and shredded the church's defences of the sale of indulgences. Most of the wars unleashed by the Reformation and the Inquisition were in reality struggles for temporal power. Many of the most powerful people in Europe at the time were essentially robber barons - people who were in position through swords and gunpowder (with the blessing of their version of God of course). Martin Luther was a very unpleasant man who had some integrity and did a very important thing. I'm with Amos on this one. It is a seminal date in history.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 06:33 AM

Martin Luther (back then, we called him "Marty" or "Mart-Boy", of course) caused quite a ruckus that is still reverbarating today. Because he championed the publication of the bible in the vernacular, a bunch of folks started printing bibles and other books that way. In a bit of a reversal of the state of today's education, this led to a shockingly large tsunami of (gasp!) literacy. (E.g., about 1580 someone wrote that it was not unusual when riding around London to see roofers and other artisans *reading* as they ate lunch. Granted, the numbers of illiterates was so great that the bulk of the population remained illiterate, but the groundswell had begun and readin' and writin' were no longer the unique province of clerics.)

Before you knew it, there were enough books around that folks needed special places to house them. These were called "libraries" (from the Latin root "libra") and the body of knowledge for handling them was called "bibliotechal" (from the Greek, "biblios").

The first libraries were for kings, princes, scholars and what-not, but along about the end of the 17th Century some of the middle class got the idea that libraries might be A Good Thing and started their own. Anyone who could afford to contribute (or subscribe) a fixed amount was welcome. A hundred years or so later, folks got the idea that maybe libraries were SUCH a Good Idea that they should be supported by public taxes, and the concept of the "free" public library was born (which is why "free" libraries can charge you when your books are late -- joining is free, but the fines enforce the rules).

Anyway, Mr. Carnegie got into the act because he'd found public libraries to be Good Things in his life. Libraries started up on places that wanted one but couldn't afford to start one, in the US and elsewhere (Ireland, for instance). Eventually computers got into the act and we all know (or should!) what that has led to!

One could say that in addition to freeing folks from Rome, Marty also liberated knowledge.

By the way, Elvis, Billie Jean, Nat Cole, and Nixon are also frozen in that secret place up near Thule in Greenland, with Little Hawk, JFK, Janis Joplin, Marily Monroe, John XXIII, and the rest. Nixon is there so that They can keep an eye on him.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:10 AM

Although I accept that Luther was significant, I also consider that he was the one who institutionalized anti-Semitism as a fundamental part of the German Protestant revolution. Pardon my lack of enthusiasm for him as a person.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Remarkable Anniversary in History
From: Dead Horse
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:11 AM

Elvis Presley Born 8 Jan 1935
             Died (matter of opinion, some say not)


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Mudcat time: 25 September 11:37 PM EDT

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