BS: Tyranny?

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 12:49 PM

There is a third way of viewing history, o nameless GUEST. Most people call it "reality." To assert that everything that ever happens is planned would be ludicrous. The Black Death, the annihilation of the first Native American tribes by smallpox, the eruption of Krakatoa or Mt. Saint Helens, all of these were clearly unpredictable and unplanned. While many events in history are planned, it is equally improbable that a single group could be responsible for all of them. The Gulag and the Nazi concentration camps were clearly designed by different agendas. The French and American revolutions were very different events, with very different causes. If a single force controlled the world's economy, media, and government, it wouldn't need 9/11 to control the American people. It could do a better job with simple control of the news and other mass-media programming.

You need to take a long series of very deep breaths and try re-examining the evidence from a rational standpoint. Until you can make assertions based on verified evidence, your rants about the world banking cartel will be given no more credence than ravings about a Yid-Mason conspiracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: DougR
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 12:51 PM

It would be pretty difficult to sue someone if you didn't know who they were, right? Seems like a safe position to be in from your viewpoint guest.

But you literally have me scared to death! The sky is definitely falling.

And yet, we continue to feed you.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 04:03 PM

Guest; it is with fascination and dismay that I read every one of you posts. Half truths, exagerations and paranoid ramblings do not mix well with high anxiety rants... especially if you actually care whether you bring people in or not. Fact is, I can't tell whether you are trying to help us, or just mislead us... and after writing as much as you have, this is a bad reflection on your approach.

I find your style to be pedantic, preachy, and fear-ridden. My guess is that you are not used to communicating with people, and very inexperienced at it...

Make me care, Guest, don't give me this "you unthinking sheep" carp... there ain't nobody here but awesome, reasonably informed music-lovers... and if you can't talk to us respectfully, then get lost! (like you aren't already...)

I do apperciate the work you've gone to though, it's quite impressive to see such volumes of vigor... you might want to spend a bit more time checking your sources...

You are barking up the wrong tree here, Big Guy! ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: stevetheORC
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 04:54 PM

MY GOD!!! I agree with a TROLL what is the world coming to it must be the Martians !!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST,Another guest
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 04:56 PM

I just went back to the start of this to see what the problem was. Someone was accused of half truth and rambling but then I went back to the start. There are stories there about politics. I only had to look at the first two to know whats going on here. I think the rest of you should go back to those and read them. This man or woman is right about the tyranny. I heard the first story read on Voce of America. They told the rest of the world Americans do not have any more rights. They read it on V.O.A. Every American should be screaming now. I think they're getting the world ready for the loss of America. America is an important symbol of freedom to the rest of the world and this is bad. I'm just another messenger so forget it if the other one can't get the point across. You read the storis for yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: harpgirl
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 06:48 PM

...I am not aware of anyone ever successfully convincing a paranoid individual that his/her delusions are inaccurate. I am nevertheless, always fascinated with the highly creative way paranoids link their delusions together to prove vast conspiracies. Most amusing, really...this paranoid is quite talented at it, actually! (Incidently, fear is projected in this structure. Make the other person afraid or tell them they are!)

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 10:04 PM

What intrigues me is how people are so sure of their own chosen customary view of reality, and how they defend it like cornered pit bulls. This is just as true of the people who consider GUEST to be loony as it is of GUEST himself. What it amounts to is that they are defending their very own conscious indentity, fearing its destruction if they should ever give in and yield their basic position to anyone.

Those who believe any given proposition spend most of their energy seeking out info that supports that proposition and the rest of it heaping scorn on anything that doesn't, and NOT actually bothering to investigate it, beyond, perhaps, the most superficial glance or two, just to give themselves further ammunition for scorn.

I'm aware of this tendency in myself, as well as in others. I watch for it.

Therefore, I will consider any unusual viewpoint carefully, reconsider it, and reconsider it again. I will assess probabilities.

I think GUEST is onto some very real stuff here. I don't necessarily think it's ALL real. But I don't absolutely for certain KNOW what parts are real and what aren't. I am not, however, afraid to give it all some careful consideration while I continue to think about it. And I watch the course of events, and try to see what little I can do to deal with it.

The only things I know for absolute certain are the things I KNOW directly. Know what I mean? The rest is all someone's opinion...or someone's stated "fact", which may or may not be factual, depending on their intentions, their access to information, and a hundred other factors.

I am continuing to consider what GUEST has said. If, Ebbie, as you say, there are six large camps set aside for "potential rioters" in the USA I would be VERY concerned. Genuine democracies do not build camps to house potential rioters, they address the social ills that might lead to rioting in the first place and they do something positive to cure those ills. The USA's response to increasing crime, social breakdown, and despair is to simply keep building more jails and hiring more cops. That is the response of a dictatorship in the making. The whole world can see it coming, and it's not good.

I frankly believe your government has gone mad...in normal human terms...but not in their own, of course.

And, yes, the forum is slowing down. Let's keep an eye on that too.

I would be delighted to find out that things are WAY better and saner out there than I think they are. Absolutely delighted! Count on that. I like a peaceful, stable society. I hope it turns out that way. I would rather be healthy, happy, and prosperous (me and everyone else) than merely be "right" just for the sake of my precious little ego.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 11:14 PM

I've always wondered about that, too, Little Hawk. In 1969, from our home in Oregon, I took my 6 year old daughter on a vacation, traveling byways and back roads as much as I could. Outside Florence, Arizona, I came upon a vast fenced acreage, posted with large No Trespassing signs, with a broad, asphalt road. in the distance I could see buildings, but couldn't see much; the land there has a slight roll to it.

I was curious and in town I stopped at a restaurant. I asked a couple of people who each said they would ask someone else. Finally, an older woman, whether boss or waitress I don't remember, said that it was a "governmental security area". I said that to someone else and he snorted. It's a concentration camp, he said. And they're all across the country, he said.

I've never known the truth of it. Keep in mind, however, that 1969 was a volatile time in this country.

I just looked up Florence. It has around 17,000 people, as of the 2000 census, and is situated between Phoenix and Tucson.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 11:31 PM

Well damn. Had a nice long harangue all typed out...then it got blasted to electrons. Should have saved it. Happened earlier today, too. I'm being filtered. Or so it seems. It's happened before and it'll happen again, but I don't think I'll be able to come back here to visit you folks. Too bad too, because I've begun to amuse harpgirl. That's probably more reward than I deserve for doing what I have to do, and I DO have to do this. I'm compelled by the oaths I've taken to defend my country.

I forgot what all was in the other post. Doesn't matter. It seems I've amused most of you by showing you an alternative universe. Only, it's a REAL universe. Consider Dick Cheney. He said future terror attacks against America would be certain if money and resources were diverted to the Sept. 11 investigation. Coming from a GOOD Dick Cheney, that would show concern for Americans. Coming from a BAD Dick Cheney, that would be a threat against those pushing for investigations. So, which do you, in your heart, believe said that? The good or the bad Cheney? The only U.S. company allowed to 'trade Iraqi oil for humanitarian purposes' since the Gulf War was Cheney's Haliburton Oil company. The Bushes and Clinton made sure of that. So, in my book, profiteering from human suffering makes Cheney bad. Which means he threatened us with another terrorist attack if we pushed for Sept. 11 investigations. Is THAT what you folks are afraid of? Dick Cheney?

And now we have the lunatic Saddam Hussein outwitting GWBush. What an embarrassment. Here's a re-cap of the Hussein/Bush soap opera:

1980's -- Turkey and the U.S. build up Hussein's army to fight the Iranians. The Bushes and James Baker's family sell tons and tons of bioweapons and chemical weapons to Hussein.

1990 -- American ambassador to Iraq, April Glasspie, tells Hussein that an Iraqi invasion of Kuwait would be regarded as a 'regional conflict' and the U.S. would not get involved in 'inter-Arab affairs'. I've seen the video tape of the meeting a dozen times. So Hussein invades, then Bush # I breaks his promise and attacks Hussein. But he doesn't take him out because (see comment on Haliburton above). Hussein was left in power so the Bushes and Cheneys could bleed the country of oil revenue. He was also left in power because the police state in America needed some finishing touches...concentration camps to be built, more federal funding to turn public schools into prisons, arm local cops with military ordinance they HAVE to practice with to stay sharp. Oh, and ratchet up the 'war on drugs' so you can eventually equate terrorism, guns and SUVs with drugs. Little things like that had to be done in the U.S. over the past 12 years. By the way, did you know the RAVE Act (updated 1986 law) has just made it illegal to own or possess glow sticks, bottled water or air conditioners in the U.S.? Look it up.

2000 -- The Bushes draw up a plan to conquer Central Asia even before GW is in the White House. The plan calls for the removal of Hussein at ANY cost. That was in the Sunday Herald, I think. The plan was circulated to the Bushes and Dick Cheney. Even Jeb got a copy. Just type in 'Iraqi invasion plan before' at www.google.com. That should turn up the story.

2003 -- GWBush has spent over a year tying everything he can to 'the war on terror'. He's wrecked our economy, given all our money to the upper 1% of 'wage earners'...and he's accused Hussein of wanting to use 'weapons of mass destruction'. Plans are in place to shut down cities and bus you to sports stadiums for 'protection'. Our troops are being sent overseas as fast as possible, but then, suddenly, Hussein says he'll consider stepping down and going into exile. GW is cracking under the strain. He's tried everything from tying Hussein to al Qeada (unsuccessfully), saying he's breached the rules laid down by U.N. inspectors, he's said 'he tried to kill my daddy', he's threatened to 'launch a nuclear war in order to prevent nuclear war'...I mean, the guy's cracking because it is his JOB to kill Hussein so the CIA can release smallpox on us. With Hussein not around to defend himself, we can blame EVERYTHING on him. So the Russian mafia and the Windsors and the Rothschilds are expecting GW to deliver, and now Hussein has thrown a wrench into things. So what's GW to do? The U.N. has ordered him to seize the second largest oil reserves in the world, so it looks like GW will be getting another ass-whipping from 'the pretzel' before long. And to avoid that...to avoid another ass-whipping...he's going to go ahead and launch a suicidal war. China will move on Taiwan (GW's already cut the number of U.S. warships in that theater in half), we'll lose 40 thousand troops in South Korea, we'll lose a hundred thousand to CIA nukes in Pakistan, etc. And then there's the Russians. GW has reduced our nuclear warheads from 7,200 to 1,700, but the Russians have kept all theirs. And the sad thing is, I think GW is the reluctant monster in this. He just wants to be baseball commissioner and eat boogers at ball games (look for that video on the internet...it's cool. GW and Laura eating boogers at the Texas Rangers ball park). So the guy just wants to be commissioner, and now his Luciferian father and all his DynCorp friends (look up DynCorp...the CIA front company that may have kidnapped as many as 200,000 kids in Bosnia for sex slave / ritual child sacrifice resale)...those guys send the 'pretzel' over to kick ass when things don't get done on time. So...damn it...all he can do is launch a war. Sure he ducked Viet Nam and just cut medical benefits to WW2 and Korean War vets, but...that pretzel guy...

But enough of that. I made my point. I doubt even this will make it through the Mudcat filter. Y'all are nice folks, and I hate to be so hard on nice people, but DAMN it...this is SERIOUS stuff. And I KNOW most of it is on-target. But the folks consolidating their power right now are getting sloppy. Bush was on Cipro Sept. 11, and the families of the Brentwood New Jersey postal workers who first died of the anthrax are SUING Bush for KNOWING the anthrax was in the mail. Bush # 2 is a DESPERATE man who is going to TRY to start WW3 and wreck America in the process, just so he doesn't get caught being bad. And we OWE it to every one of the people who died defending America to holler about this.

Need to look for other forums now. It's been fun. Going to put on Jerry Lee Lewis' Sun recordings now to get REALLY cranked up...grrrrr

Adios

P.S. -- Just saw your post before I pasted this, Little Hawk. Thank you for your thoughtful comments. You have a sense of non-judgementalism I wished I possessed. But somewhere I heard you don't pick your causes, they pick you. And since Sept. 13, 2001, I knew I was being fed BS. My investigations have led to this point. It's not a world view I like, believe me, but I'm pretty sure it's accurate. Thank all of you for your comments...supportive or ridiculing. You need to express yourself, and that's what chaps me most about our current situation. Freedom of speech is rare in the world, and people are threatening to take it from us. If we don't raise hell about it...well, do what you have to do. I'm doing what I have to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 12:03 AM

I do wish you'd decide whether you want to give us actual information or whether you want to throw in total nonsense. "By the way, did you know the RAVE Act (updated 1986 law) has just made it illegal to own or possess glow sticks, bottled water or air conditioners in the U.S.? Look it up." I did. Not only is NOT a law, it's a proposed ACTand it hasn't even been passed. It was presented to the Senate in 2002 by Joseph Biden, in the name of himself and three or four other legislators and as of January 13, 2003 is still just in the pipeline.

And it does NOT outlaw any of the above: glow sticks, bottled water or air conditioners. (Why didn't you add pacifiers)? Get real.

I must say that the person you remind me of is Schippers himself, or at least what I perceive him to be like. No, that is not a compliment.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: JennyO
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 02:29 AM

I have been following this thread with a fair bit of interest, even reading GUEST's posts right through, and trying to keep an open mind. Strangely enough after Sept 11, I said to a few people "What if the whole thing was orchestrated by the U.S. govt?". Nobody I spoke to thought that was possible, and even I decided it was too horrifying to contemplate, but having seen the movie "Network" years ago, my mind has been open to the possibility that there is a hell of a lot more goes on behind the scenes than we would ever dream of. Usually I tend to think the best of people, and that is certainly true in my everyday life, but I am not gullible, either.

I don't know all the facts about this, and frankly, if it is as bad as you say it is, GUEST, it would be well nigh impossible to uncover them, so I take the same viewpoint as Little Hawk, and watch to see what happens, and don't necessarily believe everything I hear, particularly if it is second hand information. We have enough to worry about here in Australia, with little Johnny Howard champing at the bit to jump on the Bush war-wagon.

By the way, GUEST, the forum slowed down for me too, only when I was on other threads. When you said it was slowing down and hard for you to get to, and "Your protector is doing what he can to save you from the truth", that sounded a tad paranoid. Comments like that don't help you much when you want people to take you seriously!

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: stevetheORC
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 06:54 AM

Sadam actualy lives in the middle east and not asia so I think it might bea good idea for you to point this out to Mr Bush prior to his invasion otherwise it could prove to be slightly embarasing.
i quite agree that he seems to be slightly obsessed with Sadam could be he fancies him though?

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Ireland
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 07:39 AM

"This is what the movie 'Eyes Wide Shut' deals with. The people planning to kill your family don't even have to hide their intentions. It is too heinous for you to believe."

"I could present a case to any grand jury in the country and have them vote to go to trial for 'prior knowledge' against GWBush for the September 11 attacks. The evidence is so overwhelming, I could get any grand jury to vote to go to trial for, minimum, negligent homicide, because Bush did nothing to stop the attacks. And I could convince half the grand juries Bush had a hand in carrying out the attacks."

Guest,are your eyes wide shut? Read what your arguments are based on, you have already gave the defence for Bush "It is too heinous for you to believe". If American Gov. were to investigate every threat and make contingency plans to the threats, it would bankrupt the country in days. Who draws the line? Who says this is for real? What would happen if Bush had the Twin Towers evacuated and all flights cancelled on that day?

The threat wrt Sept 11 was too heinous for you to believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Bagpuss
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 08:02 AM

Erm, Steve.... The Middle East is part of Asia....

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: stevetheORC
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 08:54 AM

Ah do apologise normaly just think of that area as middle east.
Thank you for correcting my error :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 09:57 AM

I can only speak for myself.... but today I still have the right to do everything I did yesterday.

In my own little sphere of existence, I don't feel abused, I don't feel put upon, trampled upon, whatever. I can travel anywhere I want (except Cuba, and there are still ways around that), I can write letters to my Congressmen, to my local newspaper, to whomever I wish; and in the State of Tennessee, I can still buy a gun and get a carry permit if I want. I can still go to work and go shopping and go to the movies and get on the Internet.

And on Friday, I'm going to get tattooed again, of my own free will.

Are there people who don't want me to be able to do some of those things? Well, sure. Do I believe they will ever have enough power to stop me, or anyone else in this country, from doing them? With the exception of international travel, I say, not a chance. (I single out travel, because it has been restricted in times past, and for good reasons.)

I'm not buying it. Maybe I'm wrong. Okay. But I'm not going to fill my brain with a bunch of gloom-and-doom that can't be readily and undoubtedly documented.

Y'all's mileage may vary.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Ireland
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 10:15 AM

Can ye get yer cookie grafted back on? Kim C, hope you get well soon, poor thing! ahh

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Troll
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 10:41 AM

Well, I tried.
Don't misunderstand; I don't necessarily disagree with GUEST that something is wrong, but I want more than unsubstantiated newapaper articles and off the wall conspiracy theories that patch vaugely related events together before I'll start circling the wagons.
Remember, never atribute to malice that which may be explained by stupidity.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 11:35 AM

Hey, it got posted. I did lose a post yesterday and the day before. Someone on the forum asked 'Max' to do something about my posts a while back, and I just assumed someone was filtering. Might be, or it might be the forum needs purging. Too much in storage...pages open slowly. But I HAVE been blocked from other forums, believe it or not...just for spreading innocent little stories like this:

http://www.bushwatch.net/burns.htm

Which is all I'm posting today, on various boards. The story is long and a real bolt from left field. I didn't even know there was another Bush brother...and look what he's involved in.

Eyes Wide Shut...let's see...Tom Cruise is flirting with high society and his wife has a breakdown. As he investigates the breakdown, he discovers a new world. The same old world that's been in front of him all the time, but he starts to see it differently. This is a CRUCIAL movie, (watch it if you can tolerate nudity), and some say Kubrick was killed for making it. It chronicles the main character's dawning awareness of the 'ruling class'. Their ability to make things happen, the way they do what they want, secretly, but still right there in front of you if you bother to look. Kubrick was always a step ahead of other film makers, and some think he was killed for showing the world of the Illuminati. But some said Mozart was killed for writing the Magic Flute about the Masons. Who knows? Kidman's breakdown of her MKUltra training reminds me of what GW is going through right now...the mood swings, etc. I think there's a passable chance GW is a victim of MKUltra...hell, his grandaddy and daddy were instrumental in developing the program. MKUltra was the torture program developed by the CIA using rescued Nazi scientists. The 'death camp' doctors who really WERE doing research...not just killing indiscriminately. They wanted to find out how much pain and trauma a person could take, and in their experiments, they discovered how the mind splits under extreme torture. A new personality (blank slate) is created and that personality can be given a 'trigger phrase'. Later, you can open that personality with the phrase and teach it the art of assassination, prostitution, drug muling, etc. The Nazis who developed this were imported to the U.S. in 1947 by the NSA and CIA and continued to work. That's where all the kids on the milk cartons end up...as CIA operatives who don't even know they are. That's where the kids DynCorp kidnapped went. Or that's what some say.

And Ebbie, dear Ebbie, thank you for doing my homework for me. My mistake there was in thinking the last congress passed that already. The analysis I read of it examined the semi-colons and the 'whereas'es and pointed out how, technically, all the things I mentioned COULD be considered paraphenalia. Bottled water, air-conditioners and yes, even pacifiers. And these steroided, military-armed cops running around today DO like to pick on women, so mommies with children and pacifiers SHOULD be concerned about something as seemingly unconnected to their lives as the RAVE Act. All this oppressive legislation is interconnected. EVERYTHING is being criminalized...

Take public schools. I come from a family of teachers (ex-teachers), and they've been baffled for years over why 'counsellors' rush in to talk to the kids every time one of their classmates dies, etc. Well, the information collected is recorded, and we're told those files are sealed...juvenile record. Fast forward to the present, and you have the Bush Administration forcing public schools to turn over all info on kids to the military. Or they want that to happen, at least, and it will after the next 'terrorist attack'. They want to get a peek at kids' thoughts so they can pick out the anti-socials for the really ugly jobs. And these 'counselling sessions' after tragedies...someday the notes of THOSE sessions will be in the govt. database, and anyone with a 'psychiatric history' will not be allowed to purchase or own a gun. THAT is the primary reason for forcing counsellors on kids at school...to give them a psychiatric history. It is also the primary reason Ritalin (and soon, Prozac) are being shoved on kids...MANDATORY if they expect to remain in school. To give them a psychiatric record. And it used to be just a roundabout way of denying them guns when they got older, but with this new Prozac development, I wonder what else has been added to the plan. I've heard Charolette Isserby (sp?) interviewed on this a couple of times, and she says it is government policy...what I just described. She was #2 or 3 in Reagan's Dept. of Education, and she says the public school system is intentionally being used to train kids how to live in prisons, give them 'records' so they can't advance later in life, etc.

Anyway, I just overwhelm people with information and let them sort it out, Ebbie. Not enough time to debate the minutae. If ANYTHING I say catches your interest, look into it. I love life but HATE the new world I've discovered since Sept. 11. But the world's not beyond fixing. It's only a couple hundred truly evil people pushing the world towards a feudal society where 80% of us will need to be exterminated. And they can't withstand the light of day. Look at the trouble they've gone to to protect a schmuck like Marvin Bush...the guy in the story at the URL above. They are TERRIFIED of the light.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: DougR
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 11:42 AM

For quite some time, GUEST, I thought that you might just be a flamer. I think I was probably wrong though. Seems to me you are just paranoid. Help is available if you seek it. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 11:52 AM

What I would like to know is why would that even be a proposed act? (RAVE act) Now what is up with that? I guess I'll have to look it up myself. In the meantime...PLEASE click here
Ha!
Rustic
P.S. Guest if your still out there, I had the same problem yesterday with posting. I don't think they are filtering you ...Yet...

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 11:59 AM

Sorry that didn't work. ok just forget it unless you want to go to steakandcheese.com and look up what I was trying to do it's under pictures 2000- Bush and Cheney. I was just trying to add a little humor with no success. Go figure.
Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Ireland
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 12:52 PM

"Anyway, I just overwhelm people with information and let them sort it out"

Are you OK dear, do you need to talk about it, this paranoia is really unhealthy you know. I see you as the character played by Mel Gibson in the film Conspiracy Theory, sad.

You overwhelm me with fear, just think if some one like you get their finger on the button.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 01:53 PM

Florida's embattled child-welfare agency -- the Department of Children & Families -- employs at least 183 people who have been arrested and punished for an array of felonies including child molestation, child abuse, sex crimes, drug dealing, even welfare fraud against the agency itself, a Herald investigation has found.

For instance, the HEAD of the agency's data-security team in Tallahassee is listed on the state's list of sexual predators for molesting a 5-year-old boy...

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/4026447.htm

Of course I'm paranoid. All of us are. And you folks need to be MORE paranoid. In the Bush state of Florida, THOUSANDS of children are missing. Taken from their natural families and then they disappear on their way to 'relocation'. They are being sold as child sex slaves, ritual sacrifice meat and CIA mind-control victims. Bush Sr. used these kids to mule cocaine and heroin into the country for the CIA. No one checks kids at airports. And even if they DO get caught, the only sure way out of a drug bust is to flash a CIA badge. Look around. These stories are everywhere on the internet. From reliable sources. And I'd say the truly paranoid people are the ones who refuse to acknowledge this stuff. I'm more or less comfortable with it because, once you know what the problem is, you can work to correct it. And the PROBLEM is our ruling elite is decadent beyond your wildest dreams. They have been in power for so long and are so jaded, they've grown weary of the status quo and are searching for 'alternative lifestyles'. Which has led them to satanism and Nazi mind control and child sacrifice. And these are the people who are about to...

They're getting ready to constrict the money supply in America. This year we start with a re-print of the twenty dollar bill. Going to add color to it to 'thwart the counterfeiters'. But in reality, they just want to collect all the old twenties, and then issue FEWER new ones. Then they'll do the same with fifties, hundreds, tens, fives, etc. And before long, there won't be enough money in circulation for you to pay off your debts. Physically not enough money. That's why we're all being offered zero-down home loans and 0% car financing and free credit cards...they WANT us in debt. Because they are now going to make it impossible for you to get OUT of debt. And then, you'll have to turn over your real estate to them.

I believe there are long-term plans for world conquest and short term plans. The above is a long-term plan, but if they get the chance to do it quickly...to take control of all the real estate in the U.S. by releasing smallpox, for example...they'll do it. These folks drink baby's blood and rape children to create fragmented personalities, so they're capable of anything. And yes, that makes me a bit paranoid.

By the way, maybe I should get a handle, so you folks won't have to read about this stuff if you don't want to. One of you may have a missing child, and that disturbs me. Sorry if I offended you. Someone give me a handle and then you nice folks won't have to click on this stuff if you don't want to. But I HAVE to spread what I learn.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST,Casual Observer
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 01:59 PM

You forgot human cloning and the aliens that are supposed to come back to earth and make us their mind-slaves.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 02:09 PM

You're an agent. I've run into them before. Debunk the story by casting it as a 'theory' or smear the messenger. The Miami Herald (not me) printed the story about the sex offender having total access to the files of Florida's children. The Treasury is issuing the new twenties, not me. You're not very good at your job.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST,Casual Observer
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 02:29 PM

You got me. I'll be going back to the Mother Ship now.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 02:58 PM

He's not a flamer, Doug. He's dead serious. And as far as paranoid goes, well, maybe so... But did you ever observe a bunch of sparrows huddling in a hedge while a sparrowhawk makes passes over their heads? Paranoid as all hell! Only question is, are those real sparrowhawks out there over your spacious skies, your amber waves of grain? Who really has the weapons of mass destruction, and is prepared to use them? Who? Saddam is a red herring. The excuse of the hour. He's about as important as Manuel Noriega or Anastasio Somoza. Remember them?

The "Eyes Wide Shut" analogy is quite intriguing. Talk about a creepy movie...

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 02:59 PM

Actually, I hope you ARE a monitor. No one could follow my postings and not at least have some SUSPICIONS about what I'm saying. Just today...I posted an URL to a story about a cover-up involving a Bush Baby. That is all COMPLETELY new to me. More evidence...more motive behind Sept. 11. And then the URL about the HEAD of Child Protective Services in Florida being a child molester. I mean, if you ARE a govt. agent and are following 'subversives', how could you not start to worry about your own family after reading some of those stories? Look at who has been punished for Sept. 11...FBI field agents who did the right thing and tried to stop bin Laden. So you would be in a fix as an agent...if you do the right thing and try to stop the monsters taking over the world, you're fired and villified, but if you DON'T stop this evil system, it will chew up you and your family after it's done with me. So yeah, I hope you are an agent. I really have talked to them online before, and they're not stupid. I've told them what I just told you, and they know I'm right on at least ONE point...If the system is as corrupt as I present, then they will die at its hands, too. I think that's why there's a chance to stop this thing from reaching total tyranny...because federal agents are smart, and they see where a U.N. dominated North America would lead. To concentration camps and the deaths of their families. So if you're an agent, at least check out some of this stuff before debunking it. For your family's sake.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: harpgirl
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 03:09 PM

MMMMMMAAAAAXXXXXX!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Kim C
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 03:30 PM

I asked this on another thread and I don't believe I ever got an answer.

Is bullshit one word or two?

Our government is 227 years old. If they wanted to destroy us, why are they taking so damn long?

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 04:08 PM

Because of the civil rights we used to have? ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Kim C
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 05:06 PM

Hey, the colonists could have chosen some other form of government. But they didn't.

Everyone keeps talking about the erosion of civil rights - but even when I asked my husband, what right has been taken away from you personally, he couldn't give me a specific answer.

There may be a bunch of goobers in this country playing with the Constitution - but as far as I know, none of the Bill of Rights has been officially repealed by the Congress.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 05:37 PM

..."During the time of war or during any other period of national emergency declared by the President, the President may, through any agency, that he may designate, or otherwise..."

That is from the 'Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917'. The Act defined the 'enemy' to be people "OTHER THAN CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES" and gave the President the power to strip 'enemies' of the fundamental Constitutional rights enjoyed by American citizens.

On March 9, 1933, the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917 was amended. "...other than citizens of the United States" was changed to "...ANY PERSON WITHIN THE UNITED STATES." So, the power of the President to deny Constitutional rights was extended to include Americans.

THEN, as soon as the Act was changed to include Americans, FDR used the Great Depression as a reason to declare a new national emergency. And AT THAT MOMENT, the President had the legal power to deny all Americans the protections of the Constitution. We came under martial law in March of 1933.

We have been under various 'states of emergency' ever since. Currently, we are under the one declared on Sept. 24, 2001, by GWBush. So you HAVE no Constitution at this moment in time, folks. The President or any of his 'designees' can seize your property, your guns, your family, your bank account, you, your food, your pets...everything you have in this world. And in addition to losing your property, you can have your means of livelihood taken from you, and your liberty. Look up the Acts of 1917 and 1933 to see a list of what you could lose at any time.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title50a/50a_2_1_.html

(Sorry if I burst any bubbles, huckleberries)

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 05:45 PM

There is the option of asking your representatives to endorse an impeachment of Bush.
http://www.rense.com/general33/preoi.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Kim C
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 05:45 PM

And I could walk out in the street and get hit by a truck, too, and lose everything in the blink of an eye. But I don't let it stop me from living my life.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 12:53 AM

It's the life of a slave, Kim C. All these years (if you're American), you've been saying 'well it may not be the perfect form of government, but it's the best in the world', and 'At least we have our freedoms'. But look at what happened in March of 1933. Americans were denied their rights. And it's been all downhill since then. You've been acclimated so slowly to the tyranny that you don't even see it.

Milton Mayer, in his book, They Thought They Were Free, describes this process from his personal observations of living in Germany during the rise of the Third Reich.

"Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow." But who will speak out without a voice? When the press is gone, organized opposition disappears also. "To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it - please try to believe me - unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, 'regretted,' that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures' that no 'patriotic German' could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head."

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 12:18 PM

Someone mentioned Mel Gibson. I heard his father will be interviewed tonight on this radio network:

http://www.infowars.com/index.html

Just go to the site and click on one of the 'Listen Here', buttons at the top left. Streaming audio.

The show is supposed to be aired at 8:00PM central time. The host is 'Pastor Butch Paul', a fire-breather from West Virginia. Radical right-winger.

Anyway, I never knew much about Gibson and his family, but his father is now 85. He was living in New York when America started committing troops to Viet Nam war started cranking up...and he didn't want that for his sons. Gibson knew about the New World Order / globalist domination plans even back then and didn't want to feed his family to the system, so he moved to Australia in the early sixties.

So it would make sense that Mel makes movies about conspiracies and patriotism. Anyway, I don't listen to Pastor Butch because I heard enough of that in my youth, but this show tonight should be interesting, if the guest comes on as announced.

And then AFTER the show, leave it tuned in for Alex Jones. He has a pretty sophisticated web site, so you can read the stories he covers AS he talks about them on the air. The best, most interactive learning set-up I've ever come across as far as current events.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 12:44 PM

GUEST, I do hope you are not gainfully employed in research! If you are being paid anything, you are being over-paid.

In the interest of accuracy, Milton Mayer did NOT write the book from his personal observations while living in Nazi Germany, as you say.

Milton Mayer is an American journalist, of "German Jewish descent", enquote, who in the book quoted a "colleague of mine", enquote.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 01:49 PM

Guest, you say your looking for a handle? Every time you post it seems people say, "the sky is falling"- how about Chicken Little? Ha!
I have not checked out that site you posted, infowars, it always seemed ominous to me. Don't ask me why.
Hey Harpgirl, what is that all about? Your last post? Are you crying for censorship on the cat?
Peace, Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 01:53 PM

Of course I don't research for a living. I'd starve. You know that. But I post so much stuff I make a lot of mistakes. Sorry. That doesn't diminish the power of the quote, though, does it? That quote describes EXACTLY the situation we are in now, no matter who said it.

So anyway, I was thinking of using 'Sparrownoid' as a handle so you folks can ID me...avoid the painful truth if you want. What do you think? From Little Hawk's mention of sparrows having REASON to be spooked. I do value you imput, Ebbie, so what do you think?

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 01:56 PM

Yeah, Chicken Little. Probably taken already. I was also thinking of spArrow ... with a capital A showing I'm armed (arrow).

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:01 PM

Misattribution does indeed devalue a quote which has been attributed precisely to lend it credibility. It also detracts from the future credibility of the person making the attribution. When one's stock-in-trade is citing evidence from "credible sources" and one misidentifies those sources, one dilutes the impact of anything one has to say. I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST,ho hos
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:06 PM

Guest-

Garbage in, Garbage out. Think about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:18 PM

You're right about attribution of sources. I'll try to do better. But if even one percent of what I present is on-target, then we're in a lot of trouble. The tyranny which has just been opened up full-throttle is beyond description in it's power to be destructive. With all the weapons available to our leaders, and with the blatant disregard for human life, if the Bushes and Clintons are even one percent as bad as I claim, then we're dead. All of us.

I've run into other forums where minutae is debated, and that's good. Accuracy is important. But it is SO LATE IN THE GAME now, and we are so close to total enslavement, that I just PUSH BUTTONS. ANY BUTTONS. WHAT UPSETS YOU...U.S. GOVT INVOLVEMENT IN SEPT 11? CHILD SEX-SLAVE RINGS? A FEDERAL COURT UPHOLDING A RULING THAT WE HAVE NO RIGHTS? WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET THROUGH? So I use the scattergun approach and hope someone will get upset about something. But then, the thing people get MOST upset about, is my posting 'style'. Geez. Gimme a break, folks. I really AM trying to alert people, not scare, and I make mistakes...

Like right now, I'm thinking I need to post a thing for y'all about the Wackenhut Prison Industry. Owned by the Bushes. 8 million people in the U.S. in prison. Most per capita in the world. That's why the 'war on drugs' was launched (one reason) to get young 'workers' into the penal system. They work for pennies an hour and prisons are awarded state, county and federal contracts. Slave labor, right here in the U.S. And it's a growing industry, thanks to the Cocaine Cartel and 'war on drugs' Bush # 1 was able to set up. And he helped FOUND Wackenhut...the # 1 prison builder in the U.S. I mean, some of this stuff is SO OBVIOUS I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING BUT MENTION THE NAME 'WACKENHUT' FOR YOU TO DO A SEARCH AND GET MAD!

End of sermon.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: DougR
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:19 PM

Rustic Rebel: Excellent suggestion! "Chicken Little" it is!

Kim C: Do you mean that in 1933 you didn't protest losing all those rights? Oh that's right, you weren't even the figment of anybody's imagination in 1933. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:25 PM

But I have no reason to think that even 1% of what you say is true. I have no reason to think the "Bushes and Clintons" are ven 1% as bad as you say. I have no reason to think that you're anything but a loony. If you want me (or anyone else) to think otherwise, you'll need to rethink your approach. I know, you don't really care if anyone believes you, you're just spreading the word and the rest of us can believe or be damned, but if that were really true, you wouldn't keep beating your drum, would you? You'd move on to someplace where you were appreciated.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:42 PM

I forgot to pose this question last post, but
Exactly Who Is Dubya's Army? Our brothers and sisters? Sons and daughters? Do you know where I'm going with this? Who will be the ones to try to bring us down, in your opinion spArrow? I'm interested in hearing that.
Peace, Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:45 PM

The Masons, the Illuminati, the Rosicrucians.... the NWO. "Them."

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 03:23 PM

The problem with this kind of malarkey (apart from the fact that it is malarkey) is that it distracts people's attention from the real issues.

Don Firth