Folklore: Odd pub names

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Schantieman
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 05:36 AM

Andrea: Glad to hear the baby got his share of the Bass! Is he now a confirmed addict?

There is a claimant to the 'Smallest Pub in England' near here, in Southport. Called the Lakeside Inn (coz it's guess where) it has good beer too. It has been demonstrated to be big enough for Longsord and Rapper dancing - and a small audience too - so is probably not actually the smallest!

Steve

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: IanC
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 05:19 AM

Actually, HH is by no means the shortest pub name. Many East Anglian towns with large numbers of pubs seem to have got fed up with giving them names at all and started calling them simply by a single letter.

Whittlesey, for example, had an "A", a "B" and a "C". Though latterly they were usually referred to as "The Letter A" etc, the pub signs and the names were originally simply the one letter. In Whittlesey, only the Letter B survived into the 1990s and the last landlord / landlady renamed it the "Bee" a few years ago.

:-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Shuffer
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 04:46 AM

There is a pub called "The Pelican in her Piety" at Ogmore in South Wales, History of the name and the local area can be found on their website http://www.pelicanpub.co.uk/

Good food, good beer and a roaring logfire just right after walking the dog on the beach on a cold winter's Sunday morning.

Geoff

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: HuwG
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 04:42 AM

Dave Bryant and Bert, the "Elephant and Castle" is a corruption of the "Infanta de Castilla", which is how Catherine of Aragon was known before she became first Mrs. Arthur, Prince of Wales, then Mrs. Henry VIII.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: GUEST,Jon Dudley
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 03:58 AM

Folkies may not know that Bob Copper was once the landlord (in the mid 50's) of the pub with England's shortest name -The 'H.H' Inn, Cheriton, Hampshire. HH stood for Hampshire Hunt, and the name is still on the building, long since converted to a private residence...indeed for a while it served as a Bat Hospital...yes that's right, when the injured nocturnals had flying accidents they were taken there to recover. It was in this beautiful area of Hamshire that Bob collcted some fine songs from some remarkable people and thus formed the basis of his book 'Songs and Southern Breezes'.

Sorry, I digress but I wonder how many 'oldest' and how many 'smallest' pubs there are in England? I've visited two that claim these distinctions...Ye Olde Trip to Jerusalem (oldest, in Nottingham) and The Nutshell (smallest, in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk). Now let's wait for further claimants!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Bert
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 03:44 AM

Thanks Dave,

I knew about the Elephant and Castle but not about The Angel.

Manitas, thanks for the update on The Princess Alice. I'm glad it didn't die for ever.

And as a kid, I used to live in a flat just across the road from The Eagle and Child. Us kids shared a front bedroom and were often woken up by the drunks rolling home at chucking out time. We'd go to the window and watch them reeling up the street singing. Ah! precious memories.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: mouldy
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 03:32 AM

Schantieman - no he wasn't outside on his own, and he got his share of the draught Bass when we got home.

There is/was a pub in Wakefield called the "Tut'n'Shive", part of a chain of the Tap 'n' Spile type of thing. The term is used in the building trade for a bit of a bodged up job, I think, and there were all sorts of odd joinery, plumbing and hardware effects in the place, including doors on the ceiling. My abiding memory of it is seeing Castleford Longsword standing in a circle sharing a half-pint glass of a 9% beer because, even though they were going to share it, the jobsworth behind the bar said she wasn't allowed to serve that one in more than half pints. They'd only wanted a bit each to try, but a half between about 8 men...

Andrea

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: BanjoRay
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 08:23 PM

The Dynevor Arms, Pantyffynnon near Ammanford in South Wales is a good one. It's always known locally as the Tenby, because a charabanc trip to the seaside town only made it as far as this pub, back in the twenties. Details of this superb pub are here.
The Bell Hagg near Sheffield lost its name briefly a few years back - it became the John Thomas. I wonder why they changed it back? Maybe somebody told them what it meant.
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Neighmond
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 07:31 PM

My great, great etc. great grandparents ran an inn near Prophitt's Crossing (Sp?) that was called the Lion and the Lamb...pretty common name I am told. Their kids had one called the Broken Drum and They had a nephew that ran one called the Blue Yodel someplace down south. I can't tell you if any are still open.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 12:35 PM

Martha Grimes wrote "The case has Altered" and we have a pub in Bolton called "Sally Up Steps" but can't find any history on why it should be called so. I must call in and ask one day.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Micca
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 12:26 PM

Schantieman, "The Royal Standard of England" at Beaconsfield also claims to be the oldest pub!!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: GUEST,NH Dave
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 11:32 AM

Back in the late 70's, when I was living in Thetford, in Norfolk, there was a pub located in what was supposed to be the birthplace of Thomas Paine called, fittingly, The Rights of Man.

    Good place. A free house with some of the old pub games.

    Dave

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: IanC
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 08:30 AM

"The Push" reminds me of "The Scratching Cat", though the story's rather sadder. In the middle of nowhere, in deepest Cambridgeshire, was a pub called "The Downing Arms". It said that on the sign, and it really was in the middle of nowhere. I don't think that there were more than 6 or so people within walking distance of the place, so it had no real locals to speak of. It was a road house, and had quite a few visitors, even though it was off the beaten track.

For decades, it was well known for good beer and real honest English food (steak and kidney pudding and such like) though the "restaurant" only had room for about 8 people. For decades, certainly since World War II, it was always known as "The Scratching Cat". Nobody ever called it "The Downing Arms". The pub changed hands once or twice, but it never changed.

Then, finally, it got a landlord who had ideas. He got it into Egon Ronay, the food went decidedly upmarket and decidedly non-English. He also got rid of the old "Downing Arms" pub sign and replaced it with a new one saying "The Scratching Cat". The pub became very fashionable and very popular. For about 18 months. Then the punters went elsewhere and the regulars had already gone.

The next landlord, after the last one had gone bust, struggled with keeping it going and introduced microwaved freezer food. Nobody called (well, I did one day but never again).

The pub was closed and stood deserted with the 2 year old "Scratching Cat" sign falling off. Finally it was sold as a house and the barns converted into dwellings.

Gone forever.

:-(

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Noreen
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 08:15 AM

gnomad says: There was a Clickem Inn in N Lincolnshire (said to be from counting sheep) but I've a feeling it reverted to being the Talbot
I remember it the other way round... it's always been known as the Click'em, but the sign said the Talbot, with a picture of the dog. In more recent times the pub sign has been changed and it's now officially called the Click'em. Can't remember whether there's a picture / what it is, though.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 08:02 AM

I am amazed that no Hullaval9tes have told the Story of the "Push" in Beverley.

Especially as I believe it was called the Punch and Judy or some such before the 70's.

Apparently it had a large sign on the door as you entered that said "PUSH" so it became lovingly known as "the Push". And eventually it was only known as "the Push" and the name was changed officially. The last time I saw it, it was stilled called that.

And that is no leg-pull.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 06:38 AM

Sorry, I should have added this link where you can find out about all the beers which they brew.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 06:33 AM

Although "The Jerusalem Tavern" (55 Britton St, Clerkenwell, London) is hardly an unusual name, I recommend it to anyone who hasn't tried it. They serve "St Peter's" beer brewed at St Peter's Hall microbrewery near Bungay, Suffolk. The selection of unusual draught and bottled beers is incredible.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: winterchild
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 06:25 AM

The author that uses pub-names (actual pubs, btw) for her book-titles is Martha Grimes, and she had a couple of neat ones you guys haven't hit on yet, but I can't find the information just now, or quite remember them....

This is one cool thread!

WinterC

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Suffet
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 06:24 AM

There is Maggie's Left Tit in Halifax, Nova Scotia. The sign board pictures a close up of the midesection of a serving wench carrying a tray of ales with her naked left breast sticking out from her blouse. Her nipple is just about touching one of the foamy heads.

I haven't been there in more than 20 years, so maybe the Tit is but a memory.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Schantieman
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 05:01 AM

Happy memories of the Trip when I was a student in Nottingham. Sand in the beer was part of the fun, I seem to remember.

Was your son OK onhis own outside at 8 days? ;-)

Said to be the oldest pub in England.   Any other offers?

S

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: mouldy
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 02:52 AM

Ahh.... The Trip to Jerusalem! That was where my husband's stag night crawl "mislaid" the best man in 1976 when he went to the loo (and they moved on). He never located them again that night. It was the first pub I took my son to at 8 days old (had to sit outside 'cos of licencing laws). Unfortunately I think public health has cleaned the pub up from what it was all those years ago. They removed the cobwebs several times in the past from the model ship that hung over the upstairs bar, and I bet they've done something to combat the sand that dropped into your beer from the cave roof of the upstairs bar. God bless beermats.
Re the Four Alls sign: I think there is a king's head on there. The Hanging Gate rhyme also used to be on a gate-style sign at a pub on the Ashbourne road out of Belper.

Andrea

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: PageOfCups
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 05:17 PM

When I visited Ireland last year I was somewhat appalled to see a pub sign in Ennis that featured Homer Simpson (M.T. Pockets). I traveled 3000+ miles and still couldn't get away from that guy! D'oh!!

PoC
who actually likes the show, but at home, thanks!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Jimmy C
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 05:06 PM

There is one on the New Lodge Road in Belfast called " The Starry Plough" not very unique I admit. My brother managed one somewhere in England called " The Knight Inn" again not unusual except it leads into a great motto " Have a Night out at the Knight Inn".

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 04:14 PM

I've drunk in 'The trip to Jerusalem' in Nottingham, reputedly the last port of call before the crusades for whichever king it was, probably a Richard or an Edward.... had amazingly huge dinners, I had a big Yorkshire pudding with veggies, served in a plate that looked remarkably like a glazed flat cap.

There is a 'Quiet Woman' in Dorset, near Wareham... it has a 'motto' above the door "Let no man cause a riot, now that the woman be quiet". Can't remember the story behind it, but the pub was used by Thomas Hardy in 'Return of the Native'.

There is an author who writes crime novels based around strange pub names, she has written books called 'The trip to Jerusalem', 'The case is altered', 'I am the only running footman' and one called 'The horse you rode in on' which I'm assured is a bar in Baltimore.

LTS

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: gnomad
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 03:07 PM

There was a Clickem Inn in N Lincolnshire (said to be from counting sheep) but I've a feeling it reverted to being the Talbot. I was also puzzled by the Spider's Web in Cleethorpes.

Whitby boasts(?) a Bottom House, also one called First In, Last Out.

One of the lake district passes used to have a Drunken Duck, was it you GtD?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 11:42 AM

J D Wetherspoons seem to take more care in naming their pubs. Locally (Cardiff) we have the:
"Cayo Arms" named after a Welsh Nationalist
"Ivor Davies" named after Ivor Novello
"The Prince of Wales", taking its name from the theatre which stood on the site. (remembered more recently as an 'Adult' movie house)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 11:28 AM

I thought that "ant pubs" were usually called "The Nest".

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Schantieman
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 10:53 AM

Thanke you Manitas. They come from round here (Liverpool) but there don't seem to be ant pubs of that name here!

Steve

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Gareth
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 10:22 AM

In Chatham, on the Lower Rd., to Gilligham there used to be a pub called the "Good Intent" now demo;ished for the northern access road.

The sign was a storm swept yacht.

Incidently doesn't the "Frog and XXXX" series arrise from the late Tony Handcock's fictional local, "The Frog and Nightgown" ??

Gareth

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 10:13 AM

There are several Hanging Gates in Cheshire. One used to have a small five barred gate as the sign with the following painted on the bars:

This gate hangs high
And hinders none
Refresh and pay
And travel on.

Manitas is right about about the Eagle & Child. Plenty of them in Liverpoll/South Lancs, round the ancestral homes of Knowlsey and Lathom

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 08:39 AM

Reply to Malcolm.

The Sair Inn did indeed have a large duck in residence at one time, I knew it well. It also had a dopey looking dog and several scrawny black cats which pissed in the corners. I think the menagerie belonged to Ron the Landlord's ex ex partner and all disappeared when she left. I must say it smells a lot sweeter now (now the pets have gone, that is).

Cheers
Sarah

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: GUEST,Redhorse at work
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 08:19 AM

The "4 Alls" are usually the king who rules all, the bishop who prays for all, the soldier who fights for all, and the farmer who pays for all. The first three may vary in content or number, the last doesn't.
Does anyone know the significance of "The Gate Hangs High" ?(Hook Norton among others)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 08:16 AM

Bert,

The Princess Alice was rebuilt in the same location and is still a geogrphical marker for London Transport.

Schantieman, the Eagle & Child is from the arms of the Stanley family who were Earls of Derby. There are several pubs near me named after them, The Eagle & Child, Forest Gate, The Lord Stanley and the Earl Derby (aka The Banjo House) in Plaistow and I think the Eagle at Snaresbrook was originally an Eagle & Child. The family owned quite a bit of land in the area when the pubs were built.

The story is that a child was dropped by an eagle and adopted into the family.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: GUEST,Geordie
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 07:55 AM

Mu favourire is Lamorns"s Wink in south Cornwall. Also, The Split Crow, can"t recall where. Then there is the Bell and Steeleyard in East Anglia.
Great thread.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 07:47 AM

Bert, I can think of two famous London Pubs which were demolished, but where the name lingered on:

The Angel, Islington
The Elephant & Castle (I think that they built a new one later)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Schantieman
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 05:33 AM

I stand corrected. Just done a google search for printers devil and found this:

http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/journalism/mikesbio.html

So there we are.

S

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: JennyO
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 05:23 AM

I found a few when I googled with "unusual pubs names", but anyone can do that.

Here are a few in Oz - just in Sydney:

Blue Cattledog Tavern
White Cockatoo
Doo Duck Inn
Elephant's Foot Hotel
Bald Faced Stag Hotel
Bald Rock Hotel
Nag's Head Hotel
Red Cow Hotel
Red Tomato Inn
Cauliflower Hotel
Bird in Hand Hotel
Friend in Hand Hotel
Four in Hand Hotel
Jolly Frog Hotel
Jolly Swagman
Bat and Ball Hotel
Rag and Famish Hotel
Rose Shamrock and Thistle Hotel(we call it the Three Weeds)

Also, the Erskineville Hotel is known as the Erko, and you can get food named after it, such as Erkoburgers and Chicken Erko.

There's another pub worth mentioning, not in Sydney, but a couple of hour's drive away, called the Loaded Dog, after a famous story by Henry Lawson, also the name of an excellent folk club run by Sandra in Sydney - Hi Sandra.

Jenny

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Schantieman
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 05:20 AM

All this business about bowdlerising the Grope: There used to be (still is?) a Gropec*nt Lane in london - used chiefly for that purpose.

I think a printer's devil is a piece of equipment, possibly a piece of moveable type.

And what's the story behind the frequently seen Eagle & Child ?   

S

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: GUEST,Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 04:58 AM

Huw g: "The Halfway" is halfway between the cities of Cardiffff and Llandaff, although urban sprawl now means Llandaff is part of Cardiff
Mr H: "four foot from his tail" was not a snappy rejoinder, just a quote from Lonnie Donegan.

And to add to the list: "The Adam and Eve Inn", Paradise.

Nigel

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 04:02 AM

Andrea, there's a pub near me called the Five Alls, with a picture of 5 Kings on it.

The Moon and Sixpence in Tintern...

Ella

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: GUEST,Chippinder
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 03:51 AM

The Four Alls on the A64 - how well I remember. that's the first place, apart from Church, I ever sang in public. Sooooo long ago!
Chips

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 03:46 AM

In Oakland, California, USA there's a bar called "Egbert Souse's," named for a W.C. Fields character (Fields's character insists it's pronounced "SooSAY").

Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: mouldy
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 03:19 AM

Oh, and there's another "Pineapple" on the road between Normanton and Wakefield.

Andrea

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: mouldy
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 03:18 AM

There's one on the A64 just out from York on the road to Scarboro/Whitby called the "Four Alls". The sign is quartered with four heads painted on it. I think it may have something to do with the "Hear All, See All..." type of motto, but I'm not certain. I'm sure somebody out there knows.

Andrea

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Bert
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 10:30 PM

Aw dammit Dave, that's sad, My Ex wife used to work there.

Then there's pubs where there's nothing left but the name. The Princess Alice on the corner of Woodgrange Road, Forest Gate, got bombed during the war and the dirty great hole in the ground was still called The Princess Alice for years. I don't know if it ever got rebuilt.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: HuwG
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 02:07 PM

Malcolm Douglas, I remember the "Bell Hagg" from sixteen or seventeen years ago; I may be wrong but I think that Bell Hagg is an area of rough, boggy moorland not far from that bit of Sheffield.

Sheffield still does have a "Frog and Parrot" which serves its own-brewed rocket fuel (e.g "Conqueror, o.g. 1066; "Old Croak" etc); I recall that the place was (is ?) notorious for the piles of comatose students outside at closing time, which caused obstruction to traffic on the highway.

Near me (in Glossop, at the other end of the Snake Pass) is the "Lantern Pike" in Little Hayfield (Lantern Pike is a nearby hill). The "Moon and Sixpence", which once featured folk evenings, can be ignored; it is a made-up name, dating from only ten years ago, it used to be the "Fleece".

Odd places I have drunk in; the "Printer's Devil" on New Fetter Lane in London (apparently a printer's devil was some sort of publisher's gopher in days gone by); the "Halfway House" on Cathedral Road in Cardiff (I never did find out, halfway to where ?); the "Cat and Fiddle", on the road of that name between Buxton and Macclesfield, notorious for kamikaze motorcyclists; the pub of that name has been there for centuries, where on earth did the name come from ?

Glossop boasts a "Grapes" inn; there is nothing apparently sinister about that, but York has a Grape Lane, which was a hastily-renamed "Grope Lane"; it was a mediaeval red-light district.

An oddity; the "Snake Pass Inn", on the Snake pass, mentioned above, was once just the "Snake Inn", named for the coat of arms of the Cavendish family; and the road (the modern A57) took its name from the inn, rather than vice versa.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 12:36 PM

The Sair Inn also used to feature an enormous pet duck that hung out in the bar, didn't it.

This thread is naggingly familiar, somehow; but at my end of Sheffield are The Closed Shop, The Old Heavygate and The Bell Hagg; plus, perhaps, The Noah's Ark, The Freedom View and The Firwood Cottage; and there used to be a Bull and Mouth in town, but I don't know that that's particularly unusual.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Schantieman
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 12:31 PM

There's a Cheshire Cheese on the Wirral, but I s'pose that as it's in Cheshire that might not be too surprising

S

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 12:26 PM

The downstairs bar at the Mono Cliffs Inn in Mono Centre, Ontario, Canada goes by the name of "Peters Cellars" It has several pictures of the Pink Panther Inpector around. You have to take what you can find over here :)
JohnB

Subject: RE: Folklore: Odd pub names
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 12:08 PM

Bert - "The Rorty Crankle" which was at Plaxtol was closed down the last time I drove past.

There's a pub near Plumstead Common called "The Who'd 'a thought it".

I'm surprised that Leadfingers didn't mention the "Crown and Treaty" where Uxbridge folk club runs. Originally called "The Treaty House" it was the site of an unsuccessful attempt to draw up a treaty to bring an end to the Civil War.

Central London has some interesting pub names:
"The Crown and Two Chairmen" - there's also a "Two Chairmen",
"The Magpie and Stump",
The famous "The Olde Cheshire Cheese" (rebuilt in 1667 - I wonder why),
"The Sun and Thirteen Cantons".

Near Hextable, Kent, there is a pub called "The Ship at Puddledock" which sounds very nautical except that Puddledock Lane which is the reason for it's name is nowhere near the sea or any waterway.

I have heard that the reason why so many pubs in SE England are called "The Chequers", is because of the "Chequer Tree" (Wild Service Tree) from the berries of which a form of ale was brewed in the autumn.