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BS: If there is a God why is he hiding?

GUEST,Soma 11 Jan 03 - 07:10 AM
GUEST,soma 11 Jan 03 - 07:36 AM
*daylia* 11 Jan 03 - 08:26 AM
Rapparee 11 Jan 03 - 08:29 AM
MMario 11 Jan 03 - 08:35 AM
*daylia* 11 Jan 03 - 08:53 AM
Sam L 11 Jan 03 - 08:57 AM
Bobert 11 Jan 03 - 09:00 AM
*daylia* 11 Jan 03 - 09:01 AM
Clinton Hammond 11 Jan 03 - 09:28 AM
Peter T. 11 Jan 03 - 10:05 AM
Troll 11 Jan 03 - 10:36 AM
smallpiper 11 Jan 03 - 11:00 AM
mack/misophist 11 Jan 03 - 11:33 AM
Clinton Hammond 11 Jan 03 - 11:35 AM
*daylia* 11 Jan 03 - 11:54 AM
Rustic Rebel 11 Jan 03 - 12:03 PM
Amos 11 Jan 03 - 12:07 PM
GUEST,kendall 11 Jan 03 - 12:56 PM
GUEST,Forum Lurker 11 Jan 03 - 01:03 PM
GUEST,Al 11 Jan 03 - 01:19 PM
Little Hawk 11 Jan 03 - 01:43 PM
rangeroger 11 Jan 03 - 01:44 PM
Amos 11 Jan 03 - 01:48 PM
mousethief 11 Jan 03 - 01:51 PM
GUEST,Les in Chorlton, Manchester 11 Jan 03 - 02:30 PM
Little Hawk 11 Jan 03 - 02:31 PM
Peter T. 11 Jan 03 - 04:24 PM
Bill D 11 Jan 03 - 04:34 PM
ballpienhammer 11 Jan 03 - 04:35 PM
JedMarum 11 Jan 03 - 04:41 PM
GUEST 11 Jan 03 - 04:46 PM
Little Hawk 11 Jan 03 - 05:45 PM
Sam L 11 Jan 03 - 05:47 PM
Tinker 11 Jan 03 - 05:54 PM
GUEST 11 Jan 03 - 06:08 PM
smallpiper 11 Jan 03 - 06:11 PM
Cluin 11 Jan 03 - 08:03 PM
Hrothgar 11 Jan 03 - 09:07 PM
Cluin 11 Jan 03 - 09:18 PM
*daylia* 11 Jan 03 - 09:34 PM
John Hardly 11 Jan 03 - 09:37 PM
Art Thieme 11 Jan 03 - 10:19 PM
Little Hawk 11 Jan 03 - 10:22 PM
GUEST 11 Jan 03 - 10:46 PM
*daylia* 11 Jan 03 - 11:07 PM
Cluin 11 Jan 03 - 11:14 PM
Bill D 12 Jan 03 - 12:19 AM
Little Hawk 12 Jan 03 - 12:31 AM
Little Hawk 12 Jan 03 - 12:37 AM

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Subject: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: GUEST,Soma
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 07:10 AM

Why is God playing hard to get?


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: GUEST,soma
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 07:36 AM

Well why?


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: *daylia*
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 08:26 AM

Soma - you sure he's hiding?


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 08:29 AM

Probably embarassed at how badly his creation is messing things up.


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: MMario
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 08:35 AM

I was going to say - many people who are crafting something put it away when it starts to "go wrong" and ignore it for a long time - Why should God be different? (If He is ignoring us - YMMV)


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: *daylia*
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 08:53 AM

Here's a little poetic prose for pondering (gads I love pondering!)

"... And you who seek to know Me, know that your seeking and yearning will avail you not, unless you know the Mystery: for if that which you seek, you find not within yourself, you will never find it without. For behold, I have been with you from the beginning, and I am that which is attained at the end of desire".

I AM that I AM that I AM that I AM!! (I am?!?)

Hmmmmm daylia


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Sam L
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 08:57 AM

I always liked that scene in the movie Tin Men when a man discovered God hiding in an all-you-can-eat salad bar.


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 09:00 AM

He ain't. Like I've said in other threads, I do not believe that GOD has total control of everything. This is evidenced by the situation that the world now faces. I'm not going to say the HE has *no interest* in heathens but I think He spends a lot more of His time and energy on God loving people.

If one personally thinks God is hiding in their life, then I would suggest that one merely open one's eyes, mix a little praise and a little Faith and, waalaa... God will reveal Himself plainly thru His powers to calm, to give, to bless, to love... to...to...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: *daylia*
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 09:01 AM

How divinely delicious! (nutritious too!)

yumyumyum


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 09:28 AM

If there is a God why is he hideng?(sic.)

Wouldn't you?


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Peter T.
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 10:05 AM

From the Tales of the Hasidim:


"The Rabbi's son went out to play Hide-and-Seek with the other children, and when he became "it", the other children played a trick on him, and all ran away home. The boy waited and waited, and then went home crying. His father met him at the door, and asked him why he was crying, and the boy told him, and the Rabbi said: "So it is with God. He hides, and no one seeks Him."

yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Troll
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 10:36 AM

Why do you want to know?

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: smallpiper
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 11:00 AM

He's behind you!


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 11:33 AM

When a thing cannot be found, it is not necessarily hidden.


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 11:35 AM

"When a thing cannot be found, it is not necessarily hidden."

No... most likely it never existed in the first place...


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: *daylia*
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 11:54 AM

When playing peek-a-boo with the Big Guy, try (1) using a mirror and (2) uncovering your eyes regularly!

;-) daylia


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 12:03 PM

God is; 'All that is'
Every flower, rock, animal. Everything, including you and me. All energy, light and color. God 'Is'
So, in my belief Soma, perhaps you have only abandoned yourself momentarily.

"The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy.What the caterpillar calls the end of the world,the master calls a butterfly."

"The original sin is to abandon the Is. Don't"
Peace, Rustic


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 12:07 PM

Only he who asks possesses the answer, and is the answer. The question might work better rephrased to ask "I am God -- why am I hiding?".

A


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 12:56 PM

Stop thinking like a human being. It's too restrictive. We have not the intelligence to figure it out. Consider this; the three score and ten we spend on this earth IN THIS LIFE, is a blink of an eye in time. What happens in this tiny time frame, in this mortal body, does not matter, and, it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter.-There is a school of thought that we chose this particular life to learn certain lessons on our way to enlightenment. This is why God allows what we see as bad things, to happen. We are paying our dues, that's all. Who among us is smart enough to match IQ's with the creator? Ridiculos. You dont believe in the Great spirit? That omnipotent life force? Well, you don't have to. The great spirit believes in you.


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 01:03 PM

If God is really all-powerful, then any inability we have to comprehend him is entirely his fault for making us that way. In that sense, God is not hiding, He has simply blind-folded us.


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 01:19 PM

He is hiding from his followers. Al


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 01:43 PM

God isn't hiding, Soma. You are. God isn't playing hard to get. You are.

God simply IS at all times and places, and so are you, so face it. You and God have the same basic quality on that level...existence...as does everything.

God is that which says "I Am". Consciousness. Awareness. If part of the I Am says "There is no God" then it doesn't even fully know itself yet, let alone know God. (Or it's working with a completely fallacious definition of the word "God", probably gleaned from archaic religious traditions).

Bobert has suggested that God doesn't control everything. Correct. How can you control beings whom you have invested with individual consciousness and *** free will ***? It wouldn't BE free will if you stepped in and controlled them!

It's like, suppose I create a marvelous computer game of a world (or a universe of worlds), and the program is written in such a way that the various beings and groups of beings in it can and probably will act in unique and unpredictable ways, which even I can't necessarily anticipate.

Now doesn't that sound like a great game? Any really GOOD game IS like that. A whole lot better than a game where the outcome is known before you start, isn't it? (In that case why even play?) This isn't a game where you play to Win, it's a game where you play in order to see what will happen next, and in order to expand the possibilities of reality. Knowing that it IS simply a game, within a much larger context of eternal reality, I have no reason to be deeply fearful if the events in the game don't go quite the way I would most like, but I may still have a notion of the BEST possible way the game could play out at any given time, and I will certainly hope for that best possible result and constantly work towards it...through providing inner help, inspiration, hope, courage, tenacity, humor, good will, love, and every other positive contribution that Spirit can provide.

In playing the game, I will discover a lot of new things. This will be a useful guide for the NEXT time I play the game.

The special wonder of the game is that all the human participants in it have free will, and that makes it endlessly interesting, challenging, and full of possibility. It also makes it rather sad when they make choices that hurt them or others deeply, but that is often the price of free will, and it's a profound learning experience when it happens. A being who never once makes a mistake, in fact, may quite possibly learn absolutely nothing! Suppose you picked up a bow and arrow for the first time in your life, fired at a target on an archery range, and hit the bullseye. You would probably be surprised and elated. Suppose you fired again, and split the first arrow. Hmmmm. Suppose you did that five or ten more times. Dead center every time. Better than Robin Hood. Yawn... You would soon get fed up with it, and go off to do something more interesting would't you? What would you have learned? Not much, I'm afraid. The mistakes people make are simply a failure to hit the mark, and each one leads them forward to becoming greater beings...if they rise to the challenge.

If some of the created beings in the game don't believe in Me, well, okay...does that destroy Me? I don't think so. It just means they have not got the whole picture yet. Maybe that's okay, because part of the game is based on seeing what a given being will do, given ANY set of beliefs, wise or unwise, and how well those beliefs will hold up...or will they change in time?

So, have fun being exactly what you think you are, and enjoy your opportunity to pretend there is no God, as long as it pleases you to do so. You are loved anyway, without reservation, and you shall not die, but merely change, when you are ready to.

And that is just ONE of a million or so ways it could be explained.

Amos - Nice job. You said it in a mere 26 words! What efficiency! I figure if Bob can write songs with 25 verses, why shouldn't I? :-)

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: rangeroger
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 01:44 PM

God is right here, everyday, in my life. As the saying goes: Seek,and you shall find.Knock,and the door will be open. Ask,and it will be given.

rr


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 01:48 PM

Here ti is in even fewer: "You're it-comma-Buster!"

A


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 01:51 PM

God told me to tell y'all to look a little more to the left.

Alex


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: GUEST,Les in Chorlton, Manchester
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 02:30 PM

Not so much hiding as working on a far less ambitous project


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 02:31 PM

Doesn't matter where you look. There It is.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Peter T.
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 04:24 PM

In the immortal words of Ivan Karamazov: "Phooey". yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 04:34 PM

perhaps "God" has a sense of humor? I am NOT God, and I see the inherent funniness of the human situation.

once you ask 'if', most other questions are moot.


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: ballpienhammer
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 04:35 PM

which reminds me of the story about Sunday School Class. The instructor is asking each 7 yr old where he or she thinks God is.
" And Mary, where do you think God is?" asks the teacher. "Oh, I think God id in the sky and the sun and the moon and the stars," replies little Mary. And the instructor asks little Timmy, "Where do you think God is today, Timmy?" "That's easy!" answers Timmy, "He's in my bathroom at home!" The teacher, surprised asks, "Why on earth do you think God is in your bathroom, Timmy?" " Well, every morning my Dad
goes to the bathroom door, knocks real hard and says, "Jesus Christ, are you STILL in there?"


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: JedMarum
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 04:41 PM

... not hiding, she's just busy!


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 04:46 PM

wouldnt you hide from us?


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 05:45 PM

GUEST - No. You're not as scary as you think. Besides, where would I go? I am omnipresent.

Bill - Of course God has a sense of humor! Where do you think you got yours? And yes, you are God, you just don't know it. :-) (Of course you're not the totality of God, but...well, a little piece of God is what you are. You're the cell that denies its interconnection with the rest of the elephant, and a clever little cell you are too! The elephant appreciates you for your valuable contribution to the whole ongoing process.)

If there is a "Bill D", where did he come from and how long will he last?

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Sam L
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 05:47 PM

I think seriously the Christian idea was that we were given a gift of freedom to believe, or not believe (like Ripley's, sort of) so there would be no miracles or proofs or show unless we chose to see it. So that's one idea. Believe it or not.


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Tinker
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 05:54 PM

Behold, Behold, I stand at the door and knock, knock, knock
Behold, behold, I stand at the door and knock, knock, knock
If anyone hear My voice, If anyone hear My voice
And will open, open, open the door I will come in....

Vocatus atquenon vocatus Deus aderit






Bidden or not God is Present


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 06:08 PM

Interesting to see how certain posters ascribe gender specific identification to their concept of deity. And the one who seems to think he is channeling on the deity's behalf uses "It" to avoid the conundrum.

Have any of you yet heard the good word about the rather obvious relationship between theology and mythology? That belief in supreme deities is learned behavior?


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: smallpiper
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 06:11 PM

Look no further, s/he is here right now


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 08:03 PM

Time to break out the good china then.


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 09:07 PM

Not hiding. Just busy burying Nietzsche.


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 09:18 PM

He's taking his sweet time about it then. Must work for the Civil Service.


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: *daylia*
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 09:34 PM

Maybe He's just out looking for the

Goddess

. She's been in exile for a long time now ...


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: John Hardly
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 09:37 PM

It hurts.

Lots.

...just 'cause He's not in the places we wish or choose to look.

If religion was a thing that money could buy
The rich would live, and the poor would die.


I believing was a thing that intellect could "buy"...
...the wrong folk would live...
.....and heaven would be hell.


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 10:19 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 10:22 PM

Anyone can channel on behalf of the deity, GUEST. All they have to do is speak from the finest that is within them (from love, in other words). Anyone can also channel on behalf of the demonic too, simply by speaking from the fear, hatred, greed, etc, which are within them. People do both of these things frequently. Those who do the first more and the second less are helping improve matters around here.

Your problem with the "deity", I think, is this: you imagine it to be a huge theoretical someone who is separate from you...out there somewhere. It's not. It is a universal process that you are part of. You are within it. It's a field of consciousness and intention, manifesting as energy, matter, waveforms, thought, and so on. Since it's not separate from you, you can't get away from it (except you can, in the isolated consciousness of your mind, which says, "there is no God", after having invented a spurious, really silly definition of God in the first place.) Very clever!

Your assertion that belief in "supreme deities" is learned behaviour is a half-truth. Belief in Jehovah, Rama, Krishna, Allah, etc, certainly is behaviour learned in various cultures, as are the various forms of religious ritual. Brushing your teeth is also learned behaviour, by the way, and it's quite useful! Belief in the power and presence that all those names and rituals are meant to merely represent, however, is not learned behaviour, it's something that arises out of actual direct experience, and its an experience not tied to any religion. Most people are frankly, too stunned and distracted and addicted to various stuff most of the time to have such an experience, except in moments of tremendous personal crisis, when it may be thrust upon them, so to speak. Animals have that experience in a quiet natural way daily, and it affects their behaviour, specially around dawn and dusk, but I can't prove that to you. Nor would I care to try. I doubt it would mean a thing to you.

It is atheism which is a learned behaviour. It is learned only in highly mentally sophisticated human societies in which people have became so enamoured of their own intellect, science, politics, and various material creations that they have forgotten the more instinctive and subtle side of life (which animals have not)...and in fact they fear it greatly.

Atheism is the statement of a limited and mortal mind that IT is the only God, albeit a God that is doomed to a short, rather meaningless life, aging, and death. Atheism is also a reaction to archaic and oppressive religious traditions, which is why highly intelligent and logical minds can easily justify it and be drawn to it. I was an atheist when I was young for that very reason, and quite proud of it too.

In the end, however, the pride of the mortal mind is cold comfort. You are welcome to it if it suits you. But...the mortal mind dies. If you're young at this point, my saying that will have little or no effect on you whatsoever. To paraphrase the old proverb...there's no fool like a young fool. Most young people seem to think they are going to live forever, and that's why so many of them smoke, among other reasons, like peer pressure. They're whistling past the graveyard. They've got time to waste, so they think...

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 10:46 PM

Fascism disguised as primitivist enlightenment is still fascism.

Keep channeling, Little Hawk, and then go help your anon guest kindred spirit clean his guns.


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: *daylia*
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 11:07 PM

anon guest could do that all by his lonesome, with dental floss!

Oops, sorry, I thought you said "clean his gums"!


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 11:14 PM

Well, thanks anyway, Little Hawk. You tried.

Though I think deity/demon, god/goddess, Martin/Lewis... two sides of the same coin. And coins are for spending, not worshipping. That's another way to not let our ego get in the way.


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hiding?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 12:19 AM

"Bill - Of course God has a sense of humor! Where do you think you got yours? And yes, you are God, you just don't know it. :-)"


well...reading this at midnight,,,,and I don't DARE reply right now..*grin*

(but I got 'most' of my sense of humor from my daddy)


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hideng?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 12:31 AM

GUEST - How does free will equate to fascism? How do love and nonviolence equate to fascism? Where I agree with that other fellow is in his identification of certain possible political/social problems, but not necessarily in his method of responding to them. That's up to him. I don't have a gun.

As for "primitivist", I suggest you try plowing through just one book by Sri Aurobindo Ghose, such as "The Life Divine". He was a scientific and intellectual giant, and also an atheist in his youth, but not later. I doubt you could handle it. Too unprimitive for you. And no, I am not a follower of his. But I respect him. He was one of the great anti-fascists of all time. You have me, just as you have God, confused with some thing you have made up in your own head. You don't know me, you just want to "win", verbally speaking.

Such a victory would be meaningless. I've seen my father, a very opinionated and insecure man, win any number of arguments with other people when he was WRONG! It's easy to do if you're aggressive, articulate, determined and unscrupulous, and it doesn't mean diddly-squat.

If you paid even a modicum of attention to my definition of God and analyzed it it little, instead of falling back on old, tired rhetoric that is better aimed at some fundamentalist church, you might learn something new. Do you actually think you are totally alone? Do you think you are nothing more than an isolated body and mind, incapable of channeling anything or being a part of anything but the workings of your own mind? Do you think life has no purpose other than surviving and experiencing pleasure? If so, then to all intents and purposes, you truly are alone. That's tough. People who are irrevocably (by their own choice) alone would usually rather be "right" than be happy or even be alive. They'd rather be right than anything.

You're not here just for you. And if you think you are, then you're an outlaw of a sort. There was no one on this land (before the white men came here with their fanatical religions and their greed) so unutterably stupid as to assert that there is no spirit within people, animals, and things and no divine purpose behind Life. No one. It takes a very spoiled people to believe something that stupid. And the American Indians were not a primitive or a spoiled people. They just had a simpler material lifestyle. It was the Europeans who were the barbarians, and whose society and religion were rife with corruption and hypocrisy.

Let me rephrase the original title of this thread: If there is a Life why is it hiding?

Answer: It's not! It is all around you, and you are part of it. Open yer friggin' eyes, paleface!

If there is Love, why is it hiding?

Same basic problem. Open your heart. I can't do it for you.

Cluin - Right. God doesn't require "worship" anyway. There is nothing God requires. It's people who require things, I find. They're empty inside, so they look to you or me to fill their emptiness for them.

"Though the rules of the road have been lodged, it's only people's games you've got to dodge"   - Bob Dylan

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: If there is a God why is he hiding?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 12:37 AM

Sounds, reasonable to me, Bill. :-)

- LH


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