Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?

Subject: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 17 Jan 03 - 11:34 PM

Well it does have something to do with music, namely guitar playing. I've been diagnosed with a form of arthritis called psoriatic arthritis. So far the most important joint affected is the index finger of my left hand, making fingering that famous C chord very difficult. I can hardly clench my fist.
    Anybody else have psoriatic arthritis? What are you doing? Anyone treating this condition with homeopathy? Any other alternative medical practices? Yes, I am seeing a doctor.
    I sure do hate the thought of giving up guitar and banjo playing altogether as this condition progresses. And I've a hunch it will progress.   Fortunately, the condition has not affected my fiddle playing, yet. Mandolin is a little difficult; it's the G chord postition.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 17 Jan 03 - 11:48 PM

Drink apple-cider-vinegar

Morning, Noon, and Night

A Tblspn dose with a cup of water

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 17 Jan 03 - 11:59 PM

Well I know that cider vinegar has loads of vitimin C. Tell me more about this.
Jim

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: NicoleC
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 12:06 AM

First, use it or lose it. Don't stop playing unless your doc thinks it will help you heal in the long run.

Second, I've had great luck treating osteoarthritis with fairly high doses (3g a day) of vitamin C in a non-acidic form called Ester-C. Regular C works the same way, but it upsets my stomach. It does interfere with some kinds of medication (like blood thinners and birth control pills), so a web search of drug interactions is called for. It improves mobility by encouraging healthy cartilage formation. I happily haven't had a twinge of pain from it in over 7 years now.

Good luck. I wonder if there are exercise balls and such that could help?

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: NicoleC
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 12:07 AM

Hmmm. Cross-posted on the Vitamin C thing!

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 12:12 AM

Nicole, this sounds pretty good. I like the vitimins and minerals approach.
    I certainly am not considering giving up playing guitar and banjo. It's just that I really have to warm up to get that finger going again. And if I stop, such as during a song swap when it's some one else's turn, my finger starts to stiffen up again.
Jim

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 12:17 AM

I know that when I stopped eating chocolate, I stopped getting arthritis. It was that simple for me. Liquids, lots of them. BTW, how's the action on your instruments? Keep it low, play forever! I also had a problem with pressing way too hard with my fingers... it took some practice, but I lightened up, and now I play better too! Good luck! ttr

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 12:23 AM

Thanks Guest. Actually, psoriatic arthritis is nothing like osteo arthritis, or rhumatoid arthritis. Psoriatic arthritis often, but not always accompanies a skin condition called psoriasis. Oh, and the action on my guitar is low, just high enough so that the strings don't buzz on the frets. I do a lot of fingerpicking.
    Psoriasis seems to be genetic. Dear Old Dad had it. But I don't think he had the accompanying arthritic condition. Hmmmm, I'll have to ask Mom.
Jim

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 12:43 AM

For a good introduction to psoriatic arthritis, check out the article at the mayo Clinic website, www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm?id=DS00476.
Lets see if I can link without a mistake. Might be something useful there for you, I haven't read it yet, but they are good. It is a long article: Psoriatic A.
I have arthritis + osteoporosis, mostly in back and hips and legs, but also have that slightly numb, tingling feeling in a couple of fingers and thumb in my left hand.

So far, for me the doctor recommends exercises, and vitamins in addition to Fossamax and calcium-magnesium supplements. Haven't got recommendations on any particular C vitamin yet. I am still being evaluated. My wife uses exercise balls in addition to the vitamins and an inflamation prescription (VIOXX), and it has helped her.

Gargoyle, the vinegar seems drastic- but I am allergic to vinegar and have to avoid it in any form.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 12:50 AM

Click on P in the Index and scroll down to the topic. That will find it. Fouled up somewhere on the link..

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: open mike
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 12:51 AM

we use vinegar externally as well for strains and sprains.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: NicoleC
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 01:03 AM

The vitamin C approach, as far as I know, hasn't ever been through a clinical study on humans -- and likely never will, since it can't be patented. But I ran across it as a treatment for dogs with arthritis and hip dysplasia, and it had been through double blind crossover trials with flying colors. I'll admit to trying it on my crippled dog first! He improved so much I had to try it on myself :)

I gather it's an autoimmune disorder (I have hashimoto's). There's a wealth of dietary info out there for treating autoimmune disorders, which is pretty much identical to diets designed to reduce inflammation. Top of the list is always eating LOTS of fresh veggies and avoiding very much red meat. I'd think that lots of deep water oily fish and veggies high in A, E, and folates would help with the skin portion of the condition.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 01:06 AM

Raw apple cider vinegar such as Braggs which you can get at a health food store or online. (Warning: There's a flash player thing that comes up on that page.)I add a small amount of raw honey to mine and have that three times a day as gargoyle noted.

Also, I highly recommend acupuncture as well as an evaluation of any kinds of medications you may already be taking. We've found out that I am allergic to lasix, a diuretic. It was causing skin, joint and muscle problems as well as a cloud in one eye. They kept telling me it was arthritis; now their tune is different.

Also, as natural and raw a diet as possible. Any processed foods will exacerbate skin and joint problems.

I agree on the plenty of liquids, only it should be water. Other liquids do not count.:-)

For analgesic purposes, I highly recommend Zheng Gu Shui.

Good luck!

kat

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 01:40 AM

In Mexico years ago, a doctor there told me to drink only the bottled apple juice drink (very popular in Mexico, can't remember the name) and beer- drink water only in a good hotel (preferably as a chaser, he said, downing a tequila). Like here, most soft drinks in Mexico at that time were high in caffeine, but this apple drink wasn't.

I think all doctors recommend lots of water, but mine suggests it be at least half fruit juices- grape and cranberry being two she recommends.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Genie
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 02:45 AM

"So far the most important joint affected is the index finger of my left hand, making fingering that famous C chord very difficult. I can hardly clench my fist."

Well, Jim, I have, functionally speaking, the same condition. Only mine is osteoarthritis, and there is essentially no cartilege in my middle knuckle on my left index finger, resulting in a large "Heburdin's node". (I think that's the name.) So diet is not a major influence on my joint flexibility or pain in that joint.

Nevertheless, I do find (as my guitarist doctor prescribed) that my hand functions best when I play guitar often but not more than 2 or 3 hours in a day and not for long stints at a time. (My marathon gig days like Christmas Eve or St. Pats, where I may have to play for 5 or 6 hours total, are really hard on my left hand.) I also find that taking large doses of Ibuprofen or buffered aspirin (or, on alternate days, acetomenophine) really helps overcome the stiffness and pain.

Sometimes I take Vioxx, seems to work pretty well.

I also take glucosamine sulfate regularly, in the hope that it may stimulate cartilege regrowth. Hard to tell if it's helping, though, since I have no control group.

All I can say is that I noticed this difficulty in the mid to late '80s and was diagnosed with the condition then, and despite playing guitar for an average of 4 hours a day since 1993, that finger is still the only one affected in a major way and it seems not a whole lot worse than it was 15 years ago.

Cutting out coffee, chocolate, etc., probably wouldn't hurt, but I'm not that desperate yet.

Anyway, I don't know whether psoriatic arthritis involves any loss of cartilege or whether it responds to similar treatments as osteoarthritis. But to the extent that muscular stiffness is involved, you might find arnica montana helpful. It can be taken orally (itty bitty pellets that you dissolve under the tongue) and/or topically (a cream to massage into your skin at the afflicted area). It's really effective in dealing with muscular soreness and stiffness.

Good luck fighting the stiff joint(s).

I figure if/when my left hand gets too stiff to play guitar normally, I'll learn to play lap style guitar (e.g., a dobro) or dulcimer. :-)

Genie

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Mudlark
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 02:59 AM

A few cautions...read up on vioxx before taking...some nasty side effects more common that initially thought. I found a mixture of glucosamine/chondroitin/msm very effective in reducing pain and increasing mobility in arthritic hip, but it seemed to stimulate problems with trigger finger in hand (chondroitin supposedly the main culprit here). In a certain percentage of people fruits of the nightshade family (potato/tomato/pepper/eggplant) increase general joint pain and stiffness. Advil still works the best for me and is vastly cheaper than the Rx anti-inflamatories, w/far fewer side effects. Birch oil, juniper oil helpful for pain relief, and since psoriasis implicated, rubbing vit. E oil into your finger might help.

My hand is getting steadily worse...have to really work my way up to C and especially G7 chords every time I play. But it is amazing, once the endorphins kick in, how much is still possible. It's great that you are still playing.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Morticia
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 08:57 AM

Taking cod liver oil and a low dose of aspirin each day will help too, or at least they have helped me enormously.Also, and don't laugh, taking up something like knitting or crochet to keep your fingers moving and flexible as well as the guitar will probably help.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: TNDARLN
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 09:25 AM

I wonder if a lot of your pain is not a repetitive strain injury-caused by having your hand/fingers in the same position for long periods. I had a similar problem years ago caused from holding a putty knife/sanding block/paintbrush on a house project. The hand specialist put me on anti-imflam's with the result being worse than the pain [GI] My chiropractor [who I saw regularly anyway] said let me try something, and over several visits helped a lot!

Stretching your fingers, resting the hand, not "popping" the joints will help too. I mention this possibility because part of the problem could be non-joint...

But I also agree with Genie- glucousamine/chondroitin/msg is good; lots of water to keep joints hydrated is good; stretching/working the fingers in non-guitar motions to keep 'em limber; you might also read articles on the 'net- there are doctors/therapists who are "up" on the connections between playing an instrument and arthritis pain.
The subject has come up several time on the autoharp list...

'Hope you get better soon!

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: harvey andrews
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 09:28 AM

It's such a complicated disease with so many variations. I had it in my hands for about two years. Playing the guitar became very painful, but I took Ibuprofin and pressed on. Every morning just opening my hand was agony, however after two years it seemed to burn itself out and I have no problems at the moment and have had none for three years all told.
Hope yours burns out too.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 12:08 PM

Yeah, I hope it burns itself out, too. One of the reasons I'm positive the doc is right is because since 1998 I have had psoriasis. So I know the swelling and stiffness in my left index finger is not due to repetitive movement stress. There are some good pieced of advice here. Thanks to all. I'll be seeing my doc next Tues. the 21st. More later.
Jim

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 12:46 PM

Jim, I have it and take heart - you can manage it. I was diagnosed over 20 years ago and at that time it was BAD, I can't tell you how much it hurt. But unlike many forms of arthritis, it isn't necessarily degerative - it just can flare up sometimes and not be felt at all at other times. Don't stop using your finger unless it gets so bad you HAVE to rest it, but you want to keep whatever joint it's affecting as active as you reasonably can. When I have a flare up, which is now relatively seldom and not very severe - I find that at the same time I feel very tired and run down - and if I look back at what was going on in my life during the period previous to the flare up I was usually running myself ragged. Extra rest seems to work miracles with speeding up my recovery if I do run into a bout of the arthritis. Also, it's an autoimune disease which seems to be very much affected by your state of mind and especially by stress - so make sure you deal with stress by practicing some form of meditation, excercise, or whatever works for you. I've lived with it for a lot of years and I have to say it hasn't slowed me down a bit - well, maybe just a little. A couple of weeks ago it bothered me some so I sat rather than stood during a performance. But nothing you won't be able to handle. Oh, my advice is to avoid medication if you can. They had me on some strong stuff years ago but the side effects were unpleasant I decided not to take it anymore. I haven't used anything more than a tylenol every now and then for a long, long time. You can make a world of difference by just taking a little extra special care with your health and body. Considering all the forms of arthritis around, this isn't the worst kind to have by a long shot!

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 01:15 PM

Jim, the thread about Folk/Psychic healing made me think about a couple of folk remedies I've tried that worked. They are easy and cheap and I can't see how they could harm you in the least, so here they are. For psoriasis (this isn't practicall unless you're dealing with a small patch in a place that isn't too prominent, because it will leave a stain for about 10 days) - go to a health store and purchase some henna (it'll probably be under the "natural hair care section" and it may not say "henna" on the box, but check the ingredients. Try to get something that only contains henna. You can sometimes find a colorless kind and I don't know if that will work but it would be less messy - usually henna is reddish brown. Mix it into a thick paste using water (it should look like mud)and just a few drops of alcohol - spread it on the area affected by the psoriasis and wrap it up securely in a bandage so you don't get henna all over everything. Leave it on overnight and just wash it off in the morning. I had a small patch on my foot that didn't respond to any of the usual creams - the henna got rid of it in a couple of days! A man from Algeria, who told me about it, said that people in the Middle East use henna for all kinds of skin ailments.

For the arthritis, I don't know if you've ever heard of Edgar Cayce the psychic healer, but he was always prescribing "castor oil packs" for all kinds of ailments. A while back a man was telling me that his great grandmother from Georgia used them for arthritis, and I doubt if she'd heard about Cayce, so I thought maybe there was something to it. This would be super easy for a finger - I used it on my knee and the knee did get better quickly. Whether it was from the castor oil or not I don't know, but it won't hurt to try. Just get a piece of flannel and saturate it with castor oil, which you can buy in the drugstore for under $2.00. Place the saturated flannel on the affected area and wrap it up well with saran wrap, so it doesn't leak or get on anything because it will stain upholstry, etc. Then apply a little heat, (a heating pad works well for this) and leave it for around half hour. You can do this twice a day but once a day was enough for me. Like I said, I can't see how these remedies could harm you, they won't cost more than a couple of bucks, and if they work so much the better.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Genie
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 05:02 PM

My doctor-sisters don't think that chondroitin helps much, but they recommend a combination of glucosamine sulfate and glucosamine HCI for me, and that's what I take. They're also sold on arnica montana (a homeopathic) for stiffness and both use it them selves. My mom says the topical cream helps her hands a lot, but I'm not sure it does anything for my arthritic index finger.

FWIW, partly because of my arthritis ( and partly because it helps in playing melody lines), I nearly alway play G7 as:

323003

instead of

320001

And one serendipitous side-effect of my arthritis (and of cutting off the tip of my left index finger, so that it's got less padding and thinner skin now than it used to) was that I learned to play C as a barre chord. Now I often do that, as well as playing those moveable F-and Em chords all up and down the neck. So, in a funny way, my disabilities improved my guitar-playing ability!

Genie

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Hollowfox
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 05:27 PM

FWIW, I was taking Vioxx until I noticed it gave me a small problem with edima (water retention). Now it's over the counter glucosimine for me.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 06:34 PM

Heat seems to help. I just got through doing the dishes. For a little while I'll be able to clench my fist. If I sit and play, play, play guitar, the finger seems to loosen up. However straightening it out then smarts a little.

I like the henna experiment. I have some pretty large patches on my back. So I don't know how practical that would be. Hmmm, maybe if I wore an old t-shirt during the day. I have lots of those. I save 'em up for for painting, and other dirty, messy jobs. Thanks for the encouraging words, Maryrrf. (Yes, I have heard of Edgar Cayce. She Who Is Always On My Mind is a big fan of his.)
Jim

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 08:01 PM

Prescription anti-inflamatories (Vioxx, etc.) may not be necessary- they are for pain control. Ibuprofin, aspirin, etc., non-prescription, may be fine for you, as mentioned in a post above. Ask your doctor.

Heat plus exercise seems to be a sine qua non.

There are a thousand and one hearsay remedies, some harmless, some potentially dangerous. Recent laboratory tests on HENNA indicate that it is a potential carcinogen. It is a fashion thing with East Indian women, decorating their hands.
Coal tar is the most ancient treatment, and even the Mayo Clinic mentions it- how it works, no one knows, but it seems to help many minor cases. They say it seems to have few side effects. Also use moisturizers (sp.?).
Read the Mayo Clinic article and then talk to your doctor. Ask him if your psoriatic condition is D. I. P. (no, I won't try to spell it) which is very common. Affects terminal joints of fingers and toes. See Mayo article.
By the way, I can find no reliable recommendation of vinegar- which suits me, because of my allergy to it.
A new treatment seems to be ultraviolet therapy.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 08:36 PM

I have read the Mayo Clinic article. And ultraviolet therapy rather intrigued me. Who would have thought that sunbathing might be beneficial, after all?

More Tuesday after I've seen my doc. Thanks everyone. Mudcat's a great place.
Jim

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 09:16 PM

Just had a mental image of someone sitting on the beach in Tahiti, completely covered except for two fingers.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 09:23 PM

I agree with others (Geanie, TNDARLN, etc.): Glucosamine/Chondroitin?MSM.

Good luck, and it's gonna take about 30 days.

Been there.

Bobert

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: mg
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 10:18 PM

getting sun in the proper amounts is absolutely essential. Read up on Vitamin D deficiency and try to persuade yourself you can remedy it with pills and fortified milk etc. Krispin O'Sullivan is a dietician who writes on it. mg

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 11:16 PM

Vinegar has ascetic acid....NOT ascorbic acid!!!

There is virtually ZERO vitamin C in vinegar.

Sincerely
Gargoyle

Sorry you are so confused...perhaps it is best you seek a Darwin Award.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 12:37 AM

Jerry's doc suggested glucosamine without chondroitin. He tried it for three months and the symptoms disappeared. Got off it for two months and the symptoms returned. Back on it and symptoms disappeared in two months.

Recommended dosage is 500 mg three times/day but 1000 mg capsules cost about the same. So, he took 1000mg one day, 2000 the next until the symptoms were gone and then 1000mg/day first thing in the morning. Works like a charm but only for some people.

If you try it, shop around. Prices vary widely. Best price we found so far is Walmart - Oh, no, not the dreaded Walmart!

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 03:25 AM

Green-lipped mussel is supposed to be good - don't know, but arthritic friends swear by it.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 03:52 AM

I don't know that it would help your condition, Jim, but for regular arthritis, my grandmother (who was crippled with it in old age) found that a teaspoon of gelatine taken each morning seemed to replace some of the lubricant that was missing in her joints.
Given that family history and the creaks I was experiencing as the years went by, I now mix a teaspoon of gelatine in my morning cuppa and (fingers crossed) my fingers, wrists, joints etc no longer click as much as they did before and are still supple enough to play my small pipes or any other instrument I need to play.
Look for gelatine from a bulk food store - it can be expensive in the little packets sold in supermarkets. And definitely DON'T get the flavoured jelly stuff - too much sugar. It only takes about 2 - 3 weeks before you notice the benefits, if it's going to work for your condition, and it's cheap enough to give it a try. Also, it's not harmful (unless you're a vegetarian) because it's just a little extra protein - calves foot jelly basically!

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Genie
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 06:08 AM

Bev & Jerry, if you have Trader Joe's in your area, they usually have very high quality supplements like glucosamine, as well as NSAIDS and vitamins, at the lowest prices in town (except for the super sales and loss leaders the big grocery and drug stores sometimes have); often they even beat those stores sale prices. TJs are easy to find in California and some places in OR and WA, but they're more scattered on the other coast.

Now, calves foot jelly -- that sounds really appetizing, Robyn!

Genie

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 08:51 AM

If I recall it was black henna that was said to be a carcinogen (and I would seriously question this, but anyway)so get the red henna - if it just says "henna" then it's red, which is the usual color for henna. Once you have washed the "paste" off it won't stain your clothing, it's your skin that will be stained for around ten days. But I've never had it rub off on my clothing. Sunbathing DEFINITELY helps psoriasis, although you're between the devil and the deep blue sea there since you're not supposed to get a suntan because it might lead to melanoma.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 01:37 PM

My doctor says try glucosamines if you wish, they seem to help some people, although there are no reliable tests on it yet.

Henna (Lawsonia inermis)- hope this works: henna
Acrobat necessary. The report gives a review of testing carried out on henna. The opinion is at the end of the technical article. "Lawsonia inermis 10% in petrolatum was considered non-iritating on human skin..." "Can be considered a weak sensitizer."
Nevertheless, "henna rot (red)contains 1-4 napthoquinone which appears to be a genotoxic chemical." Many tests are considered inqdequate. The opinion has the statement: "The present submission on Lawsonia inermis is inadequate."
If my link doesn't work, the site is: http://europa.eu.int/comm/food/fs/sc/sccp/out178_en.pdf

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Bellowbelle
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 08:57 AM

Umm...I just posted a note here and it disappeared...

was telling you to maybe try some home exercise equipment that gives a good cardio workout, like the cross-trainer type, like Tony Little's Gazelle Edge-Trainer. It's at Wal-Mart.com, and the basic version is just fine.

It's better than an exercise bike, I think, and doesn't stress the muscles.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 03:11 PM

try rubbing neatsfoot oil on any aching joint. I reckon on twice a day for a week. It is a palliative not a miracle cure. Leave enough time for the stuff to soak in and wipe your hands before playing. I have seen a lass whos fingers are gnarled play for the first time in 18 months. If it is is a placebo it is a rather good one. Get it from an equestrian shop - it smells much better.

When I first bought some for my bodhran the pharmacist told me the old "black country" (mid UK) folk remedy. I didn't use it on bodhrans after it ruined the first one. AND I shouldn't have bought it from the chemist - it smelled rank.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Genie
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 03:40 PM

Glucosamine seems to help some people (at least symptomatically) and not others. That's not surprising, whether it's placebo or not. As far as I'm concerned, if a placebo can help me, that's even better than taking "real medicine."

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Burke
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 07:12 PM

My physician recommended glucosamine. Starting with 1500 mg. a day & then reducing to 1000 or 500 based on experience. He's very up on the literature & said glucosamine was found to work in the double blind studies but the chondroitin didn't do a thing.

Maybe we will get those C studies eventually as well. The medical establishment is not so anti-vitamin as they used to be.

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 08:54 PM

Our doc suddenly became pro-vitamin when he acquired a new patient by the name of Linus Pauling. No kidding.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 23 Jan 03 - 12:22 AM

Well, I tried the Bragg vinegar/honey/and distilled water beverage. Actually, I don't care whether that one works or not. I rather like it anyway. By the way, there is an 18th Century name for that beverage. It was called switchel. Good stuff on a hot summer day.

I went to visit my rhumatologist on Tuesday and after a day of thinking about it, and getting a second opinion, decided to fill the rhumatologist's RX for methotrexate, and a folic acid suppliment. From what I understand, methotrexate has been prescribed for psoriasis for some forty years now. I'm aware of some of the side effects, and so is my doc. I'm not too worried about them. And yes, I am aware of its potential effects on my liver.   It also means no beer after the show with the guys in the band. So, I guess I'll treat myself to a bottle of pop or something.

There isn't too much sun right at the moment, so that's out. Anyhow it's too bloody cold out. The high tomorrow is expected to be around 15 degrees F. (I don't know what that is centigrade, sorry.) But I told my rhumatologist about that, and she allowed as how that wouldn't hurt any. Just don't overdo it, she cautioned.

Thanks for all your advice, stories, and thoughts.
Jim

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: GUEST,fox4zero
Date: 23 Jan 03 - 11:04 PM

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: GUEST,fox4zero
Date: 23 Jan 03 - 11:15 PM

Sorry about above premature e*********n.

Methotrexate by mouth or injection works about 100% of the time in the treatment of psoriatic arthritis, usually within 2-3 weeks. There is some risk, but treatment should be instituted and supervised by a rheumatologist. If you really want to play, see the rheumatologist!

If you want to screw around with all kinds of folk crap, you can try all of the aforementioned remedies. All of the anti-inflammatory drugs, steroidal and non-steroidals, also have side affects and little results in psoriatic arthritis. It can also eventuallyburn out.

Larry Parish

Subject: RE: Help. Arthritis, now what do I do?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 03 - 11:16 PM

Burke = RE My physician recommended glucosamine several friends have used it with great success...BUT it was TERRIBLE for me...made the condition even worse....joints not as painful but speed, flexibility, dexterity was gone.

And then, I discovered, from another friend five balancing/strengthening exercises to bring the joints back into alignment...that works for me.....along with avoiding sugar and white rice (don't know why...but for me they can both create flare-ups.)

My family has been a fan of Linus Pauling for 35 years - and somewhere on the book-selves is a bound copy of his original "Vitamin C" publications.

Best of Luck,
Sincerely,
Gargoyle