Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square

Subject: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: jimlad
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 09:19 AM

Looking for Lyrics of above song which may be local to Manchester in Lancashire UK. It mentions 2 places around Manchester.
(1) Albert Square,is the main square in the city
(2) Pomona,was the name of a Pub,Dance Hall and Dockyard in the city.

I think the song starts...

It was down in Albert Square,I never shall forget
Her eyes they shone like diamonds and the weather it was wet,wet,wet.

Also...

We roamed all night,in the pale moonlight
We roamed down to Pomona

It tells the tale of a feller who goes out on the 'pull' and then finds out he has 'pulled' his own wife.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: masato sakurai
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 09:30 AM

Seems to be a variant of "Lamorna" (Click here), which is a Cornish song.

~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: IanC
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 09:39 AM

Masato's correct. There's more than one Albert Square ...

Albert Square, Bowdon, Altrincham, Cheshire, WA14
Albert Square, Chester Le Street, County Durham, DH3
Albert Square, Dundee, DD1
Albert Square, Fleetwood, Lancashire, FY7
Albert Square, Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, NR30
Albert Square, London, E_15
Albert Square, London, SW8
Albert Square, Manchester, M_2
Albert Square, Manchester, M_60
Albert Square, Rugby, Warwickshire, CV21
Albert Square, Shrewsbury, SY1
Albert Square, Silsden, Keighley, West Yorkshire, BD20
Albert Square, Skipton, North Yorkshire, BD23
Albert Square, Weston Rhyn, Oswestry, Shropshire, SY10
Albert Square, Whitehaven, Cumbria, CA28
Albert Square, Widnes, Cheshire, WA8
Albert Square, Yeadon, Leeds, LS19

... the one in Lamorna, a "West Country" song (probably of Music Hall origin) appears to be fictional.

:-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: Snuffy
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 09:49 AM

Masato, not even that website claims it is Cornish: it says

The origins of this song are unclear. Davey thinks it might be a music hall song. The reference to Albert Square certainly makes it post 1840 (when Albert married Victoria) and probably much later. Despite several well-known squares of that name, including a real one in Manchester and a fictional one on the BBC soap opera Eastenders, there is no Albert Square in Penzance or Lamorna. See my Main Cornwall Page for an image of the village of Lamorna. Regardless of its origins, it remains one of the most popular songs in Camborne and the rest of Cornwall.

Albert Square in Manchester would have been a likely place to pick up ladies of easy virtue, and Pomona docks at the terminus of the Manchester Ship Canal. Even the Yetties concede that it was probably originally Pomona.

In this case the song would probably be no earlier than the 1890s

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: IanC
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 10:03 AM

Big problem with that, Snuffy, is it's only ever really been sung in the "West County".

:-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: IanC
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 10:07 AM

Also, here's the sheet music entry from The British Library.

Title: Lamorna. Song, words by L. Johnson,etc
Composer: Goffrieì. Louisa Juliana
Publication details: London. Leonard & Co. 1910
Description: fol
Shelfmark: G.807.vv.(39.)

Pretty good on the date, Snuffy.

:-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: Compton
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 10:12 AM

Isn't Albert Square, where the Queen Vic and the Mitchell's live??

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: breezy
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 10:29 AM

And I do it with actions
'and the evening it was wet wet wet' the least you can do is clap here
Big hit in the S-W
Could do it tonight Mon 20th Jan 2003 at the Staines folk club at the Three Tuns,63 London Road, staines and show you how to do it to the 'max'
If not there are other venues,
White Bear,
St Albans f.c.
The Blue anchor tomorrow

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: Train Guard
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 11:06 AM

The song does have a Manchester origin, and it was sung in Manchester at one time. I remember a correspondence in the 'postbag' section of the Manchester Evening News, sometime in the 1960s, I think. The original lyrics of the song were given by some readers, and it certainly appears to be have been current in Manchester around the turn of the century. Perhaps a resort to the Local Studies, Manchester Central Library, or to the newspaper's cuttings files might turn it up.
   My guess is that it was a local music hall song, probably from the 1870s or 1880s. 'Pomona' refers to an old Manchester resort - pleasure gardens that had a rather rakish reputation. They were swept away by the construction of Pomona Docks in the 1890s.
   Somehow, the song appears to have migrated to the West Country. There were shipments of china clay to the port of Manchester, and Pomona Docks were used by coasting craft, so maybe that's the connection. After all, Pomona is easily adaptable to Lamorna.

    Regards,
    Train Guard

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: IanC
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 11:45 AM

It's really no good sting things as fact without any evidence. If there is any, I've been unable to find it so far. Perhaps someone else has some?

:-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: vectis
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 11:48 AM

In times gone by a lady gent or lady (married as well as single), wishing for some discrete company from a member of the opposite sex, could hire a closed (curtained) carriage and go for a drive. A favourite trysting place was Lamorna Cove in Cornwall (an olde worlde lovers lane. That's what I was told.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 12:58 PM

A version of the story is a key element in the Barber of Seville...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: Schantieman
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 01:41 PM

I've always *thought* it was Cornish but dunno really. Thanks for reminding me of it, anyway - I'd forgotten I knew it!

Steve

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 04:07 AM

It's quite easy to decide realy. If you think the song is good it is from Manchester. If you think it is bad it is from the west country...

DtG
(Ducking behind the parapet)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 04:20 AM

The plot of the story also turns up in Die Fledermaus and many other places. It probably reflects the fact that most men fancy other women, but often choose ones of a similiar type.

Subject: Lyr Add: DOWN TO POMONA
From: IanC
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 11:28 AM

Well, it looks like Snuffy and Train Guard almost certainly have the right of it. Here's a broadside, clearly earlier than 1910, from the Bodleian collection. I've transcribed it below. From the look of the sheet itself, it's from the 2nd half of the 19th Century (which will be no surprise). No publisher is given, but it's part of the Harding Collection so it might be possible to trace a date from that.

DOWN TO POMONA

Now I'm going to sing,
A nice young lady fair,
I met some time ago,
At the corner of Albert Square.
She had a lovely jet black eye,
I thought I should like to own her,
For in a voice so sweet she asked of me
The way down to Pomona.

We met in Albert Square,
And I never shall forget,
Her eyes they shone like stars,
Thought the evening it was wet.
The hair it hung in curls.
Of this lovely little Donah,
As we drove that night in great delight,
Away down to Pomona.

My heart beat like a drum,
As I answered her with pride,
Yes, and if you have no objections,
I will take you there beside.
She blushed and answered yes,
The I fell in love all over,
For a cab I sent and off we went,
Away down to Pomona.

We'd scarce got in the cab,
When she asked me for my name,
I gave it to her then,
And asked of her the same.
When she lifted up the fall,
Which her face had covered over,
Upon my life she was my wife,
I was taking down to Pomona.

She said sir you know me now,
that we're not in the dark,
I saod, yes love, before now,
But I thought I would have a lark,
Then for your larking you shall pay,
And forgetting your lovely Donah,
You shall have it to say, you had to pay,
For your wife into Pomona.

I'll admit to being wrong in my suspicions on this one, put off - I think - by the fact that it's so popular in the West Country.

:-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: breezy
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 12:42 PM

wet wet wet ,mmmmm could be Manchester
Donah = face
v3 lifting up her veil?
Thanks for the 2nd verse which I've never heard sung since first hearingthe song upon my early visits to Cornwall.
Dont forget the actions, see it on Padstow harbour.

Subject: Lyr Add: LAMORNA
From: vectis
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 06:29 PM

I knew I had the words somewhere

LAMORNA

Twas down in Albert Square I never shall forget
Her eyes they shone like diamonds
And the evening it was wet wet wet
Her hair hung down in curls She was a charming rover
We danced all night In the pale moonlight
Way down to Lamorna

So now I'll sing to you Its about a maiden fair
I met the other evening In the corner of the square
Her hair hung down in curls She was a charming rover
And we danced all night In the pale moonlight
Way down to Lamorna

As we got in the chair I asked her for her name
And when she gave it to me, well mine it was the same
So I lifted up her veil For her face was covered over
To my surprise It was my wife
I took down to Lamorna

She said I thought you knew I knew you all along
I knew you in the dark but I did it for a lark
And for that lark you'll pay for the taking of a doner
You'll pay the fare I do declare
Way down to Lamorna

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: breezy
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 07:12 PM

according to my Cornish source it opens with
this song I'll sing to you,tis of a maiden fair,
and in the chorus
and we rowed all night, 'neath the pale moonlight.
last verse
I did it for a lark -in the grass
for thay lark you'll pay -30 bob- for the veiling of your donah

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: Kernow John
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 07:17 PM

Breezy
To add to that if you get a bunch of Cornish fisherman singing it, half will be singing wet, wet, wet and the others will be singing 'pissin down a rain'.

John

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: Snuffy
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 08:21 PM

Great work, IanC. The only "evidence" I had for a Manchester origin was from a Yetties songbook, where they advanced the theory that it was likely to have been Pomona before it became Lamorna.

Quite a few songs have "gone native" far from their point of origin.

"Lamorna" is NOW Cornish, just as "The Black Velvet Band" is now Irish, having moved from Barking to Belfast.

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: alice white
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 08:15 AM

anyone got the tune,dots

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: GUEST,chris cole
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 10:16 AM

As a Manc myself, i have to believe it was Manchester, although I remember that The Yetties made it popular and simultaneously confused the issueby substituting Lamorna for Pomona! The song became a folk club "standard" in the early seventies,

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: GUEST,AlanG
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 11:28 AM

Snuffy,

Following your logic would lead us to believing that Dirty old Town is NOW Irish because it's sung more in Ireland than it is in Salford!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 11:31 AM

To add to that if you get a bunch of Cornish fisherman singing it, half will be singing wet, wet, wet and the others will be singing 'pissin down a rain'.

Down yer in Bude or St Kew we substitute just one "wet wet wet" for "pissin' down a-rain" after a wink from the "lead singer" (now there's a concept...)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 12:26 PM

So, according to taste this is either from Cornwall, or Manchester.
Also claims for a similar theme/storyline in "The Barber of Seville" & "Die Fledermaus".

The theme/storyline seems to have been continued in more recent times (1979) by Rupert Holmes in "Escape" (The Pina Colada song)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 01:43 PM

I've had a glance at the broadside 'Down to Pomona' at the Bodl and the style of type is about 1880 onwards. Nothing in Kilgarriff.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: GUEST,Treacle Bolly
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 05:05 PM

After "she was a charming rover" it has been known to do a couple of dog barks !

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 05:26 PM

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square
From: GUEST,Treacle Bolly - PM
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 05:05 PM

After "she was a charming rover" it has been known to do a couple of dog barks
known? only if you are in Barking, or out at night dogging