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Death of PR Cassette

Jim Colbert 24 Jan 03 - 12:01 PM
clansfolk 23 Jan 03 - 04:27 PM
clansfolk 23 Jan 03 - 03:51 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Jan 03 - 10:31 AM
Jim Colbert 23 Jan 03 - 10:19 AM
clansfolk 23 Jan 03 - 07:45 AM
Stilly River Sage 22 Jan 03 - 09:17 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Jan 03 - 05:51 PM
Ed. 22 Jan 03 - 04:11 PM
Jim Colbert 22 Jan 03 - 02:25 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Jan 03 - 01:37 PM
clansfolk 22 Jan 03 - 01:24 PM
Stilly River Sage 22 Jan 03 - 11:05 AM
Ron Olesko 22 Jan 03 - 09:22 AM
clansfolk 22 Jan 03 - 06:00 AM
Clinton Hammond 22 Jan 03 - 05:10 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Jan 03 - 05:01 AM
Ian 22 Jan 03 - 04:02 AM
Jim Colbert 21 Jan 03 - 05:34 PM
Ed. 21 Jan 03 - 04:40 PM
Ron Olesko 21 Jan 03 - 04:37 PM
Clinton Hammond 21 Jan 03 - 04:23 PM
BanjoRay 21 Jan 03 - 04:05 PM
Clinton Hammond 21 Jan 03 - 03:52 PM
Ron Olesko 21 Jan 03 - 03:50 PM
dick greenhaus 21 Jan 03 - 03:26 PM
Clinton Hammond 21 Jan 03 - 03:21 PM
treewind 21 Jan 03 - 02:41 PM
Ron Olesko 21 Jan 03 - 02:29 PM
GUEST,Q 21 Jan 03 - 01:34 PM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Jan 03 - 01:21 PM
Bill D 21 Jan 03 - 12:55 PM
paulo 21 Jan 03 - 12:42 PM
Bill D 21 Jan 03 - 11:36 AM
GUEST 21 Jan 03 - 11:32 AM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Jan 03 - 11:10 AM
treewind 21 Jan 03 - 10:55 AM
GUEST,Jim Ward 21 Jan 03 - 10:36 AM
Roger the Skiffler 21 Jan 03 - 09:28 AM
Dave Bryant 21 Jan 03 - 09:24 AM
Ron Olesko 21 Jan 03 - 09:19 AM
clansfolk 21 Jan 03 - 09:10 AM
Jim Colbert 21 Jan 03 - 08:59 AM
GUEST,Jim Ward 21 Jan 03 - 08:52 AM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Jan 03 - 08:43 AM
BanjoRay 21 Jan 03 - 08:37 AM
GUEST,Sooz(at work) 21 Jan 03 - 08:04 AM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Jan 03 - 07:59 AM
clansfolk 21 Jan 03 - 06:07 AM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Jan 03 - 06:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Jim Colbert
Date: 24 Jan 03 - 12:01 PM

Hey, great analogy, sound and photography! Kind of like an audience or soundboard tape of a concert you were at- the quality isn't going to be the same as the official live release you bought, but just like a bad photo remembering a certain time in your life or memory you cherish, it is cool cause you were there!

And great point about having to mix for the masses and listening on a variety of sources. "authentic-sounding" was probably the wrong choice of words- what I meant was, was there a plug in that added warmth without sounding cheesy, you know some of those shared or dirt cheap bottom-feeder things (from what I've heard) are kinda fake sounding. Probably fine mixing a huge-bottom dance thing with a lot of layers, but nastier sounding when used in starker acoustic formats.

Cheers!

Jim


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: clansfolk
Date: 23 Jan 03 - 04:27 PM

Jim

......but is there an inexpensive, authentic-sounding plug in or program that allows you to do that on the PC? (That's not looking for an argument, just a question!)

argument???? where sound is concerned - everyone is right! - a very personal thing - what say you??

Authentic-sounding - "to whom" tends to be my answer - I can tell the difference - but sound is "what I do" - and I would guess that 90%+ of the music listening public certainly wouldn't notice other than saying they preferred the sound when applied to the right kind of music (I sure you know what I'm referring to without listings!) - I use the sound forge plug-in (with a lot of tweaking) - not what I would call "cheap" (in either sense of the word) and not for the occasional user - but I have had some very pleasing results both for myself and the artists concerned - only problem being the compression added by our friends at the broadcasting studio's - buggers up the sound no end!!


Having monitors, portable players, budget range hi-fi's plus and expensive system in the listening suite at the studio - our recordings get a wide range of listening prior to final mix-down - and unfortunately the final mix is aimed firmly at the best sound for the middle of the range - to give an acceptable sound for the majority of the buying public. sad but life....

Sound tends to be a bit like photography - Gran loves those old 110 photo's of her grand children - a profession photographer would view them with a different eye - but he won't change Grans mind - quite rightly - too often do I find myself listening to "problems" on a recording and not what the artist wanted me to - the music - my loss.

cheers Pete


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: clansfolk
Date: 23 Jan 03 - 03:51 PM

McGrath - the quote was refering to recording back-ups of Records and Caassettes not to Live recordings ;-)

However - recording in pubs - must be something there re PRS/PEL!

Most of the time when I record "on Location" I use a minidisc or portable hard disc recorder - the last minidisc I got was from our local "catalogue" shop 4x play built in radio mike input - line and optical inputs all £65 - a lot less than we paid for our reel to reel tape deck back in the 50's!

cheers

Pete


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 03 - 10:31 AM

It is as easy to set up to record onto PC as it would be to record on a stand alone CD recorder

Not in a pub it isn't (well, I suppose if you had some pricey laptop, maybe). And my PC at home hums too loud.

Of course cassette tapes are a menace at times, especially when the tape gets wound round the spindles and that. Sometime I'll afford a mini-disc recorder, and I look forward to that. But I won't be junking my cassette recorder for a good long while, and probably never.


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Jim Colbert
Date: 23 Jan 03 - 10:19 AM

re wow/flutter - hiss ridden copies - I was actually referring to cassette tapes - and no matter how good the equipment you use you cannot improve on the basic lack of quality inherent with the system used to record onto in the first place.


Absolutely true!

You can't polish a turd, as they used to say.

For my needs, I like the standalone, but if you're really into the editing mode a PC is the clear choice. I also find that, after a minimum 8 hour day at the computer, I really don't want to be on the computer at home... so that may be part of my preference, too. (Kind of part of the reason I prefer a portable digital recorder for the actual "taping" part of my songs, I suppose, now that I think about it!) Oh yeah, and throw in that I have my component stereo setup in a comfortable listening environment and our main computer in a different room.. yet another choice for me personally!

And yes, the discs are somewhat cheaper. I normally dub discs at home at 4x speed; actually even here at work (ad agency and magazine publishing) we seldom use faster than 8x dubbing- we have good equipment, but just have more consistent results with the slower speed. Now something worth noting- I'm not aware of any standalones that let you record an analog source at anything other than real time... which seems to take forever when you've gotten used to digital transfer speeds!

Re: warmth being added, on even a semi-pro or demo level adding an analog step is pretty common, but is there an inexpensive, authentic-sounding plug in or program that allows you to do that on the PC? (That's not looking for an argument, just a question!)

-jim


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: clansfolk
Date: 23 Jan 03 - 07:45 AM

Jim

re wow/flutter - hiss ridden copies - I was actually referring to cassette tapes - and no matter how good the equipment you use you cannot improve on the basic lack of quality inherent with the system used to record onto in the first place.

Noise is also a problem with vinyl and the natural wear and tear on playing a record (whoever careful you are and how ever good your equipment is) is a mechanical contact problem and cannot be resolved other than by not playing the record and storing it in the correct manner (not the reasons I bought records - how about you?)

It is as easy to set up to record onto PC as it would be to record on a stand alone CD recorder - 1 or two lead connection - and the introduction of editing programs is down to the individual and their aim.

CD for CD stand alone systems are dearer and very few can write CDs at the higher rates of the PC (although I would recommend recording at CDs at a lower rate)

Analogue warmth can be added - most sound engineers (including myself) are aware of the brashness of digital recordings and have an analogue stage in the recording of music that is enhanced by it AAD ADD DAD etc..

If anyone wants to record any of my early recordings and change the sound I am more than happy for them to do so......... I get the sound that's right for me and the artist! But every listeners to a recording has their own sound listening capabilities and the sound will also be greatly affected by the system they are playing it on.

Home CD recorder have their place (I have one - somewhere) but recording onto a PC gives a lot more choice - each to their own!

I would advise trying recording onto PC first as it's the cheaper (and in my option) better choice.

each to their own -

Pete


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 09:17 PM

Thanks for the analysis of how this might work. I'll print out the information, and that, along with trial and error, will help me work out something. Transferring LP's to CD is a small part of the task before me. Mostly I'll be transfering home-recorded cassettes onto CD. And I expect I'll discover the merits of various pieces of equipment that my father purchased over the years as he worked to get the best recordings he could in a non-studio environment.

I can see why someone said that recording from LP to cassette made it easier when ultimately moving it to a CD. An extra step, but also an extra copy of the music if you need one. "Belt and suspenders," as Dad used to call it.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 05:51 PM

"They don't want" - I'm not implying a conspiracy by the various private companies involved so much as an act of abdication by our servants in government and so forth, who have the responsibility to to ensure continuity and so forth, and to think longterm.

"If I have that, I'd assume that libraries will do too." I don't it is possible any longer to assume that kind of thing.

Not even for 50 years, and that is is a pretty short period in this kind of context. I've got books on my shelves which go back four times that long, and I wouldn't call them particularly old. That's physical books. When it comes to the contents of books, most of us I imagine have some which go back several thousand years.

But it seems that in our present time short-termism rules. And short-termism is potentially terminal.


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Ed.
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 04:11 PM

McGrath,

My instinct is to assume that they don't want to encourage people to go copying LPs on to CDs

So who would they be? It's hard because of the differing nature of the technologies. It isn't some conspiracy.

This whole business of material being recorded in ways that rapidly become inaccessible is quite a big thing

I'm not sure. It's an arguement that is often raised, but I'm not convinced. There are certainly some issues, but so much is being archived via the web, that I can't see it.

Who knows where we'll be in 50 years time, but unless I get cancer or get run over by a bus, or whatever, I'll still have equipment that can read html, real audio files, gif and jpeg images etc. then

If I have that, I'd assume that libraries will do too.


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Jim Colbert
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 02:25 PM

(snip) The obvious advantages when copying a tape/record etc onto the computer is the added advantage of being able to "clean-up" the recordings - by using a stand-alone CD recorder all you will do is have a copy of a noisy wow ridden recording but on a format that won't degrade at the same rate as the original.


Noisy wow ridden recording? Maybe if you've got a crappy turntable or cartridge or a lotta surface noise on your records... I was always pretty fastidious about taking care of my vinyl and think I'm kind of particular about sound quality; the few I've dubbed from vinyl have sounded great. If you want to talk about getting the sound the way the engineer wanted it, most of this stuff was mastered for analog vinyl, and I think a few engineers would be alarmed at how some folks armed with sound editing software just plain go too far, taking (for want of a better term) the edge, or warmth, off their mix. But, whatever works for you!


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 01:37 PM

They don't make it too easy do they? My instinct is to assume that they don't want to encourage people to go copying LPs on to CDs, they want us buying them all over again. Of course, more times than not the best records, and the best tapes, never come out as CDs anyway, even if you could afford them.

This whole business of material being recorded in ways that rapidly become inaccessible is quite a big thing, not just affecting our music - see this article in the Guardian recently - Digital dark age looms:

"When monks were compiling William the Conqueror's Domesday Book in 1085, they probably didn't expect it to last 1,000 years. But they would surely have been shocked by the idea that it would be unreadable in 10 to 20 years, or even 50 years. That, sad to say, is the position most of our digital data is in today. When our descendents look back at the dawn of the "information age" in the UK, they may see a black hole...."


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: clansfolk
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 01:24 PM

SRS

Belkin (here in the UK) do several leads (the one I used (prior to purchasing a Creative Extigy sound card that has stereo minijack inputs - Digital phono (RCA) - and optical input/output and highly recommended) was actually put out for transferring video to usb and consist of three phono (RCA) jacks - 1) Video signal plus left and right audio to USB at the time this was the only lead available locally through audio only ones are now instore.

The signal from the record deck is too low to feed into the computer (or even a normal amp input - the phono input on an audio amp has extra pre amplification) and although you could take the output from your amplifier (e.g. tape output) the quality of signal would depend on the quality of the amp...... with a purpose built pre-amplifier (should be available from good h-fi store) less noise would be introduced to the signal (another reason why it's best not to use the "line input" on your sound card is that most sound card pe-amps are very noisy.

If recording from Cassette - the output from the cassette deck should be OK as it has a higher "line level"

A pre amp is a small box (some battery and some mains powered - or both) that amplifies the signal from the pick-up and increases what is a very low signal to a line-level signal suitable to be input into an amp/PC etc - not very expensive and very quiet in operation (depending on quality of unit)

Initially you could take a phono to phono stereo lead from the tape output of your amp to the Belkin lead and into your computer's usb port - from this you could record either cassettes or Records onto the computer via sound forge etc. Clean them up and save them as 16 bit wav files which you could then write them to CD. - If you are happy with the results a pre-amp wouldn't be needed.

hope that's a help and makes sense to you

cheers Pete


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 11:05 AM

Pete--

    When copying to the PC it's best to go in through the usb port (leads are available) and a pre amp for a record deck would be "handy" - thus cutting out pre amp stages on your sound card.

The leads you're discussing, they would have standard RCA jacks on one end and the USB plug on the other? Or a Stereo or mini jack to USB? I've been out looking at leads and finally found the right configuration of standard plugs to mini. Where would one find an RCA/jack to USB lead? I had assumed I would have to plug into the back of the tower, using a stereo mini-jack. The USB plugs on front (also have a firewire) would be much more convenient.

What is a "pre-amp?" Are you suggesting going through the amplifier and not straight from the turntable? (I had assumed you'd have to go through the receiver to get the best sound). I'm only just now getting time to address the business of transfering lots of music from cassettes and vinyl to CD. I have two options: a newer all-in-one inexpensive unit (Aiwa, a couple of years old) with turntable, cassette players, receiver, CD player, and the RCA and standard jack and speaker outlets available. My second option is to move the computer next to the wall of older but really solid equipment that is all linked together into the receiver. I think the turntable needs some adjustment or repair (its a Dual).

Any thoughts? (Other than I'm deplaying my ignorance for all to see, but I'm a quick study!)

SRS


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 09:22 AM

Ian, there may not have been TV specials or banner ads announcing the demise of cassette tapes, but it was pretty much a foregone conclusion when new technology evolved.   Just as the when ice man disappeared when electric refrigeration came into vogue,the writing was on the wall. Cassette tapes won't disappear entirely, but their usefullness is rapidly fading. Not many people wash their clothes by beating them on rocks these days, likewise consumers won't be bothered with the fidelity issues and practicality of cassette tapes now that the bar has been raised.   Consumers have spoken and the votes are in.


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: clansfolk
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 06:00 AM

The obvious advantages when copying a tape/record etc onto the computer is the added advantage of being able to "clean-up" the recordings - by using a stand-alone CD recorder all you will do is have a copy of a noisy wow ridden recording but on a format that won't degrade at the same rate as the original.

With a bit of work via a PC and a good wav editing program (I use Sound Forge XP with all the plug-ins)an old tape/record can sound so much better and nearer what the Artist and recording engineer intended for you to hear!

Of course if you feel the "pops hiss and crackle" is an essential part of your listening pleasure - you can always re-record your new cds onto the computer and add these essential qualities to them!!

When copying to the PC it's best to go in through the usb port (leads are available) and a pre amp for a record deck would be "handy" - thus cutting out pre amp stages on your sound card.



Pete


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 05:10 AM

"the demise of the cassette was unannounced and so rapid"

See, I'm pretty sure it was pretty much dead about 10 years ago...

Especaily the Commercially Recorded tapes...

And thank gods for that...


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 05:01 AM

It wouldn't be very sensible not to have a cassette player in your system, just as it's a bit silly not to have a turntable - the cassettes and the records are still around after all, and people are still making them. Why limit your options?


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Ian
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 04:02 AM

Thanks folks I guess I can live with the change of data store format CD MD whatever but I am upset that the demise of the cassette was unannounced and so rapid. I hope that all those people that recently bought new systems incorporating cassette players can be forgiving to to the manufacturers. If they are not then perhaps the consumer may not be willing to accept or choose between new formats and refuse to buy any of the hardware.


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Jim Colbert
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 05:34 PM

RE: Get your old vinyl, put them onto tape, get the right connections, load them into your computer and produce a c.d.   Simple.   


Why add the hiss and second generation of putting them to analog? A stand-alone audio based CD recorder has the DA conversion shit built right in and makes copying vinyl as easy as making a tape. Assuming, of course, that you have a lot of stuff the will never be reissued on CD. Frankly I've been amazed at some of the esoteric things that have come out in digital format, y'know?

And MD- I think MD is just getting started, although it's not turning into what the big companies originally thought it would be, the ideal consumer format to replace CDs or tape. It seems to be growing in popularity among live recorders, songwriters, etc., being used in place of DAT...


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Ed.
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 04:40 PM

Ian,

In answer to your original question:

Am I the only one upset by this sudden unannounced demise?

Yes, would appear to be the consensus


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 04:37 PM

I've ordered from MiniDisco and they do good work. Great prices and a diverse product line. Fast and helpful. I've emailed them with questions and received prompt replies.

Ron


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 04:23 PM

Walmart, no... But we have one local Radio Shack that has had a MD recorder or 2... But I knew way more about them than the sales dude did...

But if ya really want MD, go to a Sony Store, or a Future Shop...

Best Buy in the US as well, I think...

Or go to MiniDisco.com and order something from them... that's where the best selection and best prices are...


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: BanjoRay
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 04:05 PM

I enquired about minidisc recorders at various stores around Galax VA last year - including Walmart and RadioShack, and none of them had ever heard of them.
Cheers
Ray


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 03:52 PM

It might be Fords next years modles?


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 03:50 PM

I agree with you Clinton. MD's are superb. I use them for field recording of interviews for my radio show and they are very convenient, the sound quality is excellent, and the functionality and ease of use is perfect for most applications. I interviewed Peggy Seeger a few years ago and she marveled at the size of my recorder. It was a few ounces and fits in the palm of my hand.   She remarked how she and Ewan MacColl dragged a "portable" real-to-real recorder around for field recordings in the 50's and 60's. This "convenient" recorder weighed about 150 pounds!

The only problem is that here in the U.S., MD's are not being marketed properly. I know there are MD units for cars, but I haven't heard of Ford or anyone else installing them here. From what I hear, the MD is bigger in Europe and Asia.

I own a Sharp portable and a Sony deck for my home unit. My brother-in-law gave me a Sony NetMD player for Christmas. I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but it looks like fun!

Cassettes do make good doorstops and you can use them to scrape mud off your shoes.   I wouldn't recommend using an MD for that!

Ron


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 03:26 PM

A couple of points--
PRCs are, and always have been, a poor medium for recording. They don't permit random access, they have a high failure rate and they're more expensive to produce than either LPs or CDs.

CDs are more permanent (and easy to back up) and sound better. My solution to auto playing is to buy a portable CD player with a cassette adaptor. Works fine, lets you play cassettes or Cds (and some let you play self-recorded MP3s) and inexpensive ($50-100 or so).


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 03:21 PM

You folks who seem to think MDs are on the way out better have another look! We MDers know that MD is just getting started!

I think it's Ford these days, putting MD players in their cars...

MD is the BEST!

:-)


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: treewind
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 02:41 PM

MD is based on Magneto-Optical recording technology which has a very high life expectancy and is not affected much by heat and light - better than CDR.

I suspect CDs will be readable quite a long way in to the future. The next generation is DVD and all DVD players can read CDs so that looks quite promising for the physical format remaining a standard while the capacities and speeds go up.

My operating system (Debian GNU/Linux) was installed from double sided DVD - 9Gb on one disk, shiny on both sides. Binary on one side, source on the other. Unspeakably neat and cool.... but I digress

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 02:29 PM

Q, if you buy a decent CD-R then the disc will outlive you. It is true that some of the cheaper CD-R's, and some original CD's, were crap. The technology has fixed many of these problems, but you still should avoid the bargain basement generics.

Of course, CD's are not permanent solutions. Scratch a CD and you have a coaster. Hard drive digital storage with redundant protection is around the corner.

As for MiniDiscs, they are fairly indestructable. Because they are encased, you never touch the media so scratches are nearly impossible. Again, there are cheap MD's and defects will occur - mainly the gate that covers the disc will break.

Bill D - I would advise that if you have the time to listen to 2000 vinyl recordings you probably have the time to dub them onto another media. I have a similar situation and I've only transfered a few of my favorites, mostly material that I doubt will be re-issued on CD.

And a reminder from the late John Hartford - don't leave your records in the sun!


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 01:34 PM

What is the life expectancy of minidiscs? Looking for reliable information.
Many of the recordable cds out there are poor quality, some with a quality life of about 5 years. Some of the better ones may last up to twenty. There was a thread on this a short while ago.


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 01:21 PM

And then the industry will have moved on and there won't be any machines available that play the CDs we have produced...

It never ends.


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 12:55 PM

yep! fine idea...except I figure about 2000 hours time embedded in the words 'put' and 'load' and 'produce'...*grin* ..wanna come over to my house when you have yours done, Paulo?


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: paulo
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 12:42 PM

Get your old vinyl, put them onto tape, get the right connections, load them into your computer and produce a c.d.   Simple.   then you can release a lot of shelf space for music books.

Paulo


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 11:36 AM

oh, pooh! I forgot that my Opera browser has been refusing to keep my Mudcat cookie this week! That was me above.

*mutter, mutter*....(Why wont it stay?...grump)


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 11:32 AM

I have hundreds of tape cassettes, and will try to maintain a player as long as possible...but I sure wont miss NOT having to trust new stuff to that little thing that gets wound up and jammed!...At least a bad CD doesn't prevent me from playing other CDs.


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 11:10 AM

Cheapest minidisc recorder seems to be over £140; personal tape recorders (when you can find them) range from under £10 up. Apart from that they clearly have advantages.

But now it looks as if the minidisc are likely to be drive off the market even before they've become affordable, with the mp3 machines replacing them...


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: treewind
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 10:55 AM

Nearly all the people I know who have and use MD are working (not necessarily full time professional) musicians. For them MD is a terrific working tool. It's also brilliant for discreet location recording.

It's also good for lots of other uses, but there it has stiff competition with existing media.

Prerecorded: there's not enough room for printed cover information. CD is about as small as you want to get for this.

If you just want to listen to commercially recorded music though headphones, solid state MP3 players compete.

The first generation of 4 and 8 track minidisc "Portastudio" style recorders have been followed by hard disk recorders because it's higher capacity, faster and cheaper.

CDR is reliable and cheap, and if I want to make someone a copy of something I've recorded I'll put it on CD because it's what I know the'll have and may even have several places thay can play it like a computer or maybe the car- even though it might have started on minidisc.

Mary H. and I have a CD recorded at home which we sell at gigs. It was recorded on 4 track MD and mixed down to stereo MD. We've had just one request for a tape (so we made a handful of tape versions) and none at all for minidisc.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: GUEST,Jim Ward
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 10:36 AM

Reel to reel tape machines might have gone from the domestic market but you may be surprised to know that many studios still use tape, if not for the initial recording, in the final mastering process to get that 'analogue' sound.


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 09:28 AM

I've also noticed that blank C60 cassettes seem to have gone from the major outlets, only C90s on sale in supermarkets & hi fi chains. C60s were ideal for recording 30 min or 1hr radio progs for later listening. Now if it's an hour you have to put 45 mins one one side then 15 mins with half hour blank or find something to fill it up.

RtS
(Who still has piano rolls, 78s and reel to reel tapes)


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 09:24 AM

Pre-recorded mini-disks were even around for a short while. While I like MDs and use them for any live recording these days, I'm beginning to wonder how long they'll survive. It's a pity because the fact that you can record volume and track titles on them, makes them very useful. They're also wonderful when I'm learning classical music, because I can stick track markers wherever I want - and delete them as easily.


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 09:19 AM

Ian started this thread with a comment asking if this the music industry dictating to us again.    Quite the opposite, we are dictating what we want to the industry. The same thing led to the demise of vinyl.   Once people heard the sound quality and realized the convenience, the vinyl album became a dinosaur. Same thing with cassettes. They sound miserable. Always have, always will. CD's became portable and recordable and there was less need for cassettes. I also think MiniDiscs are incredible, but here in the U.S. they are being marketed without any apparent strategy. People here just don't know about them.

I will be glad to be rid of cassettes. May they rest in peace alongside eight tracks.

Ron


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: clansfolk
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 09:10 AM

mini - disc - can be quite cheap now - 50p compared with cassettes at 75-95p by same company........

How many out there record onto their video recorders - audio that is.... 3hrs for £1 - far better quality than PR cassette near to mindisc quality!!

we used to master to stereo video before minidisc became available!

But now is the reign of the CDR/w (for the moment) DVD recorders are becoming cheaper - if they'd only decide on a standard! and hard disc records are about to enter the race proper.....

so many ways to record - and so little time to do it......


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: Jim Colbert
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 08:59 AM

I have no qualms with the demise of the PR cassette. I have a lot of cassettes in my collection that I made years ago, on quality blank cassettes, with great care given to levels, fades, etc. (Mostly dubs from vinyl, or later, from CD.) These have held up incredibly well, but in general the prerecorded cassettes I used to buy were generally high speed dubbed on cheaper magnetic tape, and commonly died with age and use.

Now there were exceptions- Tom Rush's New Year's Eve tape was of excellent quality, for instance, but these were indeed the exception.

I still make cassettes to listen to in my garage, or for friends sometimes. But I love my standalone audio CD recorder. (Which cost less, incidentally, than my last 3-head cassette recorder!)


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: GUEST,Jim Ward
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 08:52 AM

McGrath of Harlow is wrong when he says home recording was not possible between the demise of the cylinder to the introduction of tape recording. One of my sources of income at the moment is re-capturing the sounds (de-noising, de-hissing, etc) from 78rpm acetates and transfering them to a digital medium. These acetates are usually metal blanks covered in a thin layer of plastic material and were cut direct from source as is tape. Most towns in the 40's and 50's had a radio shop or local enthusiast who provided this service both on 78's then later for 45 or 33.3rpm. The music industry still used this medium for demos, well into the 60's.
    The obvious replacement for the cassette for home recording is the mini disc, which is far more versatile than recordable CD, but I think the cassette will be with us for a long while yet though.


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 08:43 AM

And much more expensive too, at this point.


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: BanjoRay
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 08:37 AM

All my live recording gets done on minidisc these days - sounds much better than cassette and is much more manageable.
Cheers
Ray


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: GUEST,Sooz(at work)
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 08:04 AM

I usually buy CD's from artists at gigs - they rarely have cassettes, except old one reduced to clear. Promotional material is always on CD now as well.I think our club chairman must be the only person I know who doesn't have a CD player.


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 07:59 AM

The interesting thing about wax cylinders was that the machines that played them were also able to record them. When they were replaced by records there was a period of many many years when home recording ceased to be a possibility, until the tape recorder came around.

To some extent the shift from audio-cassettes has a similar effect, since it's still a lot more awkward home recording on a CD. The same goes for the move from VHS to DVD. There is a constant pressure from the people who control the entertainments industry to turn us all from producers to consumers insofar as they can


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: clansfolk
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 06:07 AM

can't get me 8 tracks cartridges either!

Nor wax cylinders and 78's haven't been around for ages.......

"all the good times are past and gone...............   "


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Subject: RE: Death of PR Cassette
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jan 03 - 06:04 AM

Cassette recorders are still a whole lot cheaper and handier than CD recorders. Especially when you're dealing with live music.

All the different formats have advantages as well as drawbacks, and it's normally pretty easy to transfer music from one to another as desired. The idea that, just because there's a new one around, the older ones are no longer useful is daft. As daft as imagining that the invention of the electric guitar makes acoustic guitars obsolete.


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