Music and Depression

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Amos
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 07:48 PM

Brett:

You are GODAMMNED right it isn't the drugs.

You hauled her about and put her on tack and trimmed her up just as she should be.

Sure, a little sunshine helps. But there is no substitute for the Thou in the equation. Drugs are an occasionally necessary bridge for some people under some circumstances, but for anyone who can do so, I cheer for the walking away and the standing up, and the exercise of Sovereign Self-Determination. Way to go, laddie!!

A

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Naemanson
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 07:40 PM

I know it isn't the drugs. When I went to California I forgot all my prescriptions. The insurance company wouldn't let me refill them because I had just refilled them a few days before. So I went two weeks without the antidepressants. And I felt great. I still do.

And life hasn't exactly been a bowl of cherries. I injured my knee in California and have been in pain ever since. I am to have surgery on it next Friday. There are other difficulties as well. But my new emotional state takes the punches and rolls with them.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Bernard
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 04:24 PM

Good for you, N! It's great to read about success stories!

However, depression has a deeply selfish side, and it is making me write 'but when will it be my turn?'...

That said, Art - my heart goes out to you. It's one thing not wanting to do something that you are able to do, but wanting to do something you are no longer able to do... bugger. Bugger, bugger, bugger.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Greenbeer
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 02:24 PM

Just my two cents worth...
I also suffer from low-grade persistent depression and I would like to suggest that you continue to work with the medication. While they are all in the same family they all have somewhat different effects. I have started using effexor on the recommendation of some friends and I am happy with it. It is a second-line drug meaning it addresses both depression and anxiety, which has helped me a lot.
I don't like the idea of taking drugs, but I like the debilitating effects of depression less. If your doctor won't work with you then get another one. And counselling can be more helpful than you might think, and if you can't afford it maybe you can find someone willing to barter or some other creative arrangement. Just having to articulate problems can be very helpful.
Keep on doing the good things, and I'm glad to hear you're feeling better.
all the best,
Greenbeer

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 02:05 PM

I'm glad that you have managed to pull yourself out of the hole that you were in. From what you have said it seems like the main thing that helped you get better was that you recognised your problem before it completely swallowed you. So you were still able to make those sorts of decisions about your life that could help you pull yourself out even further. My descent into depression is usually so quick that before I know anything about it, I am rock bottom, and incapable of making any positive decisions, or any decisions at all. And even when I try to do something, I don't have the skills anymore to make these things work. I remember one period of depression where I had just left a job to move to a new area with my other half. I applied for lots of jobs and never got a single interview. However once I started to get better, I got interviews for practically every job I applied for. Too depressed to even fill out an application form properly.

Because my depression is mainly seasonal, the upside is that I almost always get better around april time and it disappears as quickly as it came. Its very hard to see the significance of this in the middle of January when I can't see the point of living my life, but I try to keep telling myself about it anyway as much as I can.

I hope you manage to keep the black dog at bay in future and good luck with your travels.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Naemanson
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 01:45 PM

I've been doing a lot of thinking about what has picked me up. I present my thoughts here as a seed for others to consider and apply to their own lives or ignore as they wish.

The incidents that sparked the latest round of depression were the breakup, my last daughter going off to college, and winter. The daughter and the breakup were close together and were followed by what we can all agree was a tough winter.

I have been a full time father for 22 years. Last August my daughter left for college and I was left with an empty nest. It hit me harder than I thought it would and I am sure my reaction must have contributed to the breakup. Essentially with the departure of my daughter my future was thrown into question. What would I do if I wasn't a father all the time?

Then my fiancee jumped out of the relationship and that tipped me farther into the black cloud. I may have invested too much of my future into that relationship. Whatever the cause and whatever I did, the two incidents left me with no idea of what lay ahead of me.

And this last winter didn't help me at all. I was in a little apartment with crushing debt and cold weather outside and no decent idea of what to do with the rest of my life. For a while I devoted my life to working, putting in lots of unpaid overtime, coming in on the weekends and doing almost nothing else.

In December I realized that I had no attachments and could go overseas. I didn't even have to keep working for the same branch of the service. So I started to apply for whatever jobs I could find as long as they were in Europe. Then as the winter wore on I expanded my search to include tropical climates. And I started to see that I no longer carried an obligation to or for anyone but myself. That was a liberating thought.

Then I went to California. It was a taste of my future life and that blew my depression out of the water. I only needed to commit one act of social surgery and I was clear and happy again. I quit Roll & Go with whom I'd been singing for 10 years. I won't go into details but the group was part and parcel of my relationship that had gone bad.

Now I am waiting for word on going to Guam. I have rediscovered that I can dream and there is no one who can crush my dreams and take them away from me. If the job on Guam doesn't come through then I will be interviewing for a job in Italy. If that one doesn't work out then I will try for one of the other two jobs coming up in Italy or the one in Spain.

And I am singing again. I enjoy playing my guitar and I like singing. I have made a serious turn around and I don't want to go back to the depths from which I have risen. I can now work to realize a long standing dream and nothing will stop me.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Art Thieme
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 11:31 AM

For me, it was deep but at least a decent percent of it was "situational"--- in that my body was falling apart for the last two decades. Those physical symptoms were misdiagnosed --- and that led to all four spinal surgeries with continued degradation of my total health with more misdiagnosed episodes of a bewildering negative nature. Suicide seemed a good way out before total poverty reared it's head. (As I've said, jokingly, "Suicide is the sincerest form of self criticism.) My brother made me see what was happening and we got help--and medication. Then Mayo Clinic found I'd had MS since about 1980. It was liberating !!

And MS itself has cognitive aspects that cause depression. Observable with MRI, placques on the brain and spinal cord can be the culprits here. Recent memory problems are very real too with MS---much more than simple aging. I do believe that is why I continually re-post lines and jokes etc. here in this good forum. ;-)

But Zoloft has helped unbelievably. Along with important talk therapy, my many "losses" of many physical things I once could do easily (like picking) had to be grieved and dealt with much like your loss here, Naemanson.

Don't blow off your dark feelings and the suicidal compulsive hands that are possibly, you think, reaching for you----if indeed they are.
If you, or any others who are depressed, need intervention, get it.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: fat B****rd
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 06:58 AM

What everybody else said and good luck from fB.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: magician
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 05:34 AM

Hi Brett,

Even all these miles away in England, I can identify with your pain. I also have beeen through deep depression, through the loss of my husband and other factor's which compounded things to the extent of my almost giving up on life.

I coped with burning various thereputic oils and insenses, talking to my friends and not lossing sight of the fact, that the true ones where there for me. I hardest thing was to let fo and realise that what had happened was not my fault!! I lived for years with a guilty conscience blaming my self for his death. NO it wasn't, I think that what ever happened he would have gone any way.

That is definaltly the hardest thing!! The doctor wanted to put me on pills, but I said no, I wanted to do it on my own. 20% help is given my the pills as a kick start to balence the chemical imbalance, the rest is up to you.

I have just come across this thread and have read with interest as it is something I have been through. I hope that you continue to get better. The thing is that once you are through it, if/when it happens again you can turn round and say,"I've been here before and I know that there is a light at the end of the tunnell"

Set yourself little goal posts - for example your wood-working, that sounds very thereputic for you. Good luck.

Gille

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 06:59 PM

As said above, with true depression, there is no instant fix. There may be a momentary lightening of mood, but there is no fix. It's been a year since bits of my world fell apart, and although some parts of it are coming together, there are still big holes that need to be patched over. One of these is music. I still have no regular outlet for music and I miss it dreadfully. Trouble is, to regain that outlet, I have to commit to something I'm not ready for yet. Because I can't do that, I have no outlet, and so get more and more down. I've found who my true friends are, and it's surprising that they aren't the ones I thought they should be. And that is also depressing.

However, I've picked a goal, and I'm working towards that one. If I reach it, I will go for another. If I don't, I've done no harm, and maybe some good, which will see me through another down time.

The trick is to keep the goals attainable. Go for it.

LTS

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Bernard
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 02:48 PM

Ella, please don't take this as criticism - I do understand what you are saying - but if you are able to go from 'the blues' to 'happy' just by changing a record, you aren't depressed in the clinical sense, even if you are pre-disposed to bouts of depression.

The loss of a loved one either through bereavement, or by being 'dumped', does not necessarily induce clinical depression, though it obviously can.

I have suffered with depression for years, and lose the will to live on a regular basis. No music on earth is capable of fixing that for me. Sady, it is very rare that I listen to recorded music for pleasure, and I often find it hard to enjoy going to a folk club - so much so that I frequently stay at home instead.

Well-meaning people say 'You'll enjoy it when you get there!' - but it doesn't work like that. If I ignore my gut feelings and go, I'm more likely to get a panic attack, maybe insult someone, then head for home as quickly as I know how.

Bagpuss is right - it's symptomatic of depression that you lose interest, and there is no 'instant fix'.

If you have good, supportive friends around you (as I have), it helps, but another symptom of depression is the ungracious treatment of these friends - though as true friends they understand and ignore such behaviour.

One thing is certain - depression sorts out who your real friends are!!

Sorry this is a bit rushed - I haven't had time to read the thread properly, and I hope I'm not trampling all over people's feelings (as I often am wont to do!).

TTFN

B

Patience is the companion of wisdom.
--St. Augustine

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: MMario
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 10:19 AM

good to hear that.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Naemanson
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 10:06 AM

Just as an update, I have made the transition from depressed to happy. I am singing again and enjoying my music.

Thanks for your support.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Amos
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 04:11 PM

Brett:

I had the great pleasure ofg hearing you sing in San Diego last weekend. You do remember last weekend, right? **bg**

Tell ya, Brett, if that's what you sound like when you're singing the blues, I can't wait to hear you when you get cheered up. It was mighty fine singing for true, and FWIW, it left all of US feeling better, anyway! :>)

A

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Kim C
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 03:57 PM

I've been reading an interesting book, called The Van Gogh Blues: The Creative Person's Path Through Depression.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Naemanson
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 03:33 PM

As I mentioned in my post to the thread on being in Los Angeles I am feeling better. I managed to leave my antidepressants behond and the insurance company wouldn't help pay for a refill so I've been over a week without them. I am dreading going back to Maine but that must happen anyway so we will see what comes of that.

I have started to sing again. Last week, after a tiff on the email, I quit Roll & Go. Almost immediately my interest in music reappeared. I may have accidentally found the reason I lost it. That too remains to be seen. At least now I am plying and singing again.

Anyway, thanks for your support.

Brett

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 03:05 PM

Brett, I was gonna write last night but thought I'd better wait. It sounds like there was something bothering her very much and she couldn't tell you. She swallowed pills perhaps because she needed to at least show you. It sounds like she still can't or won't communicate. Imagine what that lack of communication would have been like if you had married! You could have wound up miserable for quite a long time and probably still, at the end, had to deal with the intense pain you're going through now.

You can usually figure out what goes on in your own head, but forget trying with other people's. I think most folks have some regrets and I KNOW most people occasionally think "If I had just..." Well, we only know what we should have done because what we DID do didn't work. Can't travel back and fix it and anyway, we might screw up something completely different. Shift, dear. From past to present, from present to hopeful dreams of the future.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Naemanson
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 02:41 PM

Figuring out how to let go of it is the trick. I have never been able to easily let go of anything, either emotional or physical. I still have regrets about relationships that go back through the ages. I hope that's normal.

I try to convince myself that she left because she couldn't deal with what was in her head. I try to believe that there was no other possible outcome. I try to believe that I am better off now than that she is gone. And some day I will get there.

And all is not lost. Today I am feeling better. I am happier and more energetic. I fear it's only temporary but it may not be. I may be looking forward to my trip to California.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 02:07 PM

Brett,

I agree with Mary, the suicide attempt had everything to do with what was going on in that girlfriend's head. Go reread what Mary wrote. It's not your fault. As one who recently lost a loved one to suicide, I know that he had lots of very nice people around him who would have gone to extraordinary lengths to help him if he'd asked. His choice hurt a lot of people. You are deeply wounded by what may have been a serious attempt, or may have been the other type, a "cry for help." It's not your baggage to carry, if you can figure out how to let go of it.

We hit tough spots in our lives, when things seem to go wrong for a while, kind of an emotional domino effect. Things will stop toppling and you'll get through it.

SRS

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 04:17 AM

Well, this christmas whilst putting up the tree. I had the radio on - listening to whatever came on.

I'd been in the attic to get the decorations, and had found my grans old scarf. Still smelt of old ladies, cigarettes and lavender water and hairspray.

My gran died 2 years ago which was a huge blow to me, and this got me thinking about her. I was putting up all the decs on the tree and then one of my songs I turn off usually if it comes on, came on the radio...

Bridge Over Troubled Water came on and the flood gates opened. Then every song after that just capitulated the situation to make it worse. Until I was a gibbering wreck. The only thing that knocked some sense into me, was reaching for some strong, kicking feisty Scottish diddle e dee. Which picked my mood up and had me dancing around the room.

SO.....

Try and find your most favourite piece of music that is a mood lifter, and listen to it and that may help?

I get the occasional black dog - and at the moment it's all a bit hectic, with a very ill father. Moving house, and expecting hospital treatment myself. I just try and keep cheerful, have the odd crying blast and get on with it again. I remember all the good things in life, my loved ones, fantastic friends, gorgeous neices and nephews, and suportive partner and more. And whilst I sometimes don't want to do those gigs I am booked for, the sessions make up for it. And are usually a blast with no pressure.

So, don't give up on it all - just find that music that lifts you most!
Ella

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: mg
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 09:03 PM

Unless you did truly awful things, which I can't imagine you did, such as beating her, telling her awful things, having affairs with other women, locking her up somewhere...you should release yourself from any guilt over her suicide attempt.    it was undoubtedly something that was building for a while and without a nice man around it might have happened much sooner. If she didn't tell you what you did "wrong" and you didn't knowingly do anything that the average person would consider abusive or demeaning to her, there is nothing more you could have done.

Do you suppose you are attracted to damsels in distress?

mg

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Naemanson
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 01:47 PM

Three years ago my lover dropped me for another man. That has to have been the absolute worst pain I have ever felt. In my current depression I am grateful that is not the case this time. It is the only seriously positive thought I can come up with.

My memory of February 2000 is one of endless nights pacing the floor, food with no taste, tears without warning, and actual physical pain radiating from my center throughout my body and limbs. By comparison this break up is child's play.

Today I am friends with her and the other guy. I am sometimes not comfortable around them but I can look them in the eye and not flinch. And to be fair to the other guy it wasn't his fault. He didn't take her knowingly from my side. He was there and she needed someone. I learned a lot from that breakup.

I wish I could learn from this one.

By the way, this weekend I did some wood working and it was very therapeutic. It took most of the weekend to actually kick my arse into gear (Amos) but I did it.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: mike the knife
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 01:19 PM

Thanks for this thread. Going on 5 weeks ago I was summarily scraped off of the bottom of someone's shoe & I still can't eat or sleep. For the first time in my life I was absolutely certain what it was I wanted to do with my life. Nothing has ever hurt so much. Ever. Nothing is working. Thanks for the tips.
Regards,
Mike

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Naemanson
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 12:58 PM

mary garvey
You asked "Did fiancee do a number on you or was it a case of her realizing that the relationship was not one she could continue in, and let you down as gently as possible?"

It isn't so easy. On October 7 I thought we were on track to be married and that made me happy. Late that night she took 33 sleeping pills and we spent the rest of that evening and the next day in the hospital. That night she kicked me out and said it was over. I do not know why and I cannot guess at what happened to make her take such a drastic step. She certainly didn't let me down easy.
*****************
There are a lot of comments regarding what I can do differently in the future. I would be first in line to recognize that it takes two to break up a relationship. Unfortunately I need some input from her to tune me in to what I did or didn't do. Perhaps if she had said something, anything, I could have made changes to improve things. As it is, I just don't know so I am left to assume I was either innocent or so damn guilty that she had to resort to suicide to get clear of me. The other theory that I have been entertaining is that she did it deliberately, waiting till I was truly hooked and then dropping me like a hot rock.

A few months after I lost my previous love to another man she and I managed to have a series of email conversations that explained what happened. I was able to make some changes in my attitude and approach. I have written several times to my ex-fiancee but she remains silent. Without input I can only guess as to what happened.
****************
The debts and the loss of the house are my own fault. I made decisions based on the fact that we would be living together. I also missed some important filing dates for my daughter's financial aid because I let my fiancée distract me from what is truly important. Again, my own damn fault.
*****************
Sinsull
You wrote: "…Maybe it will help to take a close look at all three relationships and try to figure out the common factors. It could simply be that you are attracted to people who are not capable of loving you as you need to be loved. If you can identify the immediate attraction trigger, you will then know who is to be avoided. Of course, that means that you you will probably have to forego that intense "instant gratification" honeymoon time and concentrate on developing long term friendships that may (or may not) lead to commitment."

I know there is at least one common factor between the different relationships and that is me. I think all three women were quite different from each other. The last two were very different from my wife and that one lasted 17 years! However the last several years were pretty hard.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: GUEST,guest Mudjack
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 12:44 PM

S.A.D. Seasonal Affective Disorder. My music has been the pits lately. I have deducted that living in the NW during the winter months with rain and gray days for long periods of time has a way of deppressing and making one feel like sh-t.
Your situation is obviously compounded and likely more serious.
Get help or what ever it takes to get yourself back on track to being a happy camper.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 11:23 AM

I hope that reading all of our testimonials of solidarity doesn't lead to further distress! Take a look at the coping skills discovered and described by all of us, and turn off the negative stuff where you can. And one thing I don't think any of us mentioned, TURN OFF THE NEWS!!!. That is one the THE fastest ways to take a fast trip to the emotional basement. The only news program or news magazine I watch with any consistency any more (but I missed it this week) is CBS Sunday Morning. They actually seek out good news.

SRS

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Kim C
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 10:05 AM

I read a little thing in a horoscope the other day that I rather liked:

Without irritating grains of sand, oysters would never make pearls.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Naemanson
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 09:59 AM

Hi,

I am very strapped for time here at work so I cannot answer as fully as I'd like. However, I am very grateful for the responses. For those of you who sent me a PM I will answer when I get some time.

One of the points made by several people is that they have been through this themselves. I know this is the case but when you are there it seems as though no one could understand. Your posts help me see that I am not alone in going through this. Others have been through it too.

Saturday was the third anniversary of when a previous life love and soul mate left me for another man. In my current condition I am susceptable to reviewing the past failures and letting them drag me down. The shuttle disaster did not help at all. I tried to enjoy some music in Portsmouth on Friday but was too down to stay long. I left early and went straight home. But Jeri gave me a hug and spoke words of comfort that helped me feel better.

Thanks my friends,

Brett

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: GUEST,DaveWy
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 05:39 PM

I went through a deep depression the suicidal kind. Switched off from everything. It had a strong anger base, caused by being devalued at work. Turned the anger into a positive to not let depression beat me. One of the major problems was the destruction of confidence and self esteem. Took to music to fight those by singing and playing guitar in public in local folk clubs.

The first song was one of the toughest personal challenges I had to face and I felt I was not particularly good with the nerves shot as they were.

However it has been a regular therapy since and has helped keep depression at bay.

Find your angle and fight back. Music for me was a positive therapy.

Dave

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Red and White Rabbit
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 04:54 AM

The road is long on which we travel
Through fields of desolation we walk now and then
But even deserts that seem to go on for ever
Bursts into colour when the sunshine follows rain


My shrink told me I would never 'cure' the depression til I learned to love myself

The rejection of your fiancee makes you self critical and develops feelings of unworthliness in all areas of life thus feeding the depression. write down what you feel in whatever way is best for you
song letter diary notes look at all your self criticisms and then look here again

You may feel yourself unworthy but everyone here feels you are a worthy human being each has taken the time to share their concern and love for you - there are a lot of messages here - that should tell you something

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Broadside Johnnie
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 04:25 AM

Breathe.

Cry.

Wail.

Sing... loudly.

Repeat as necessary.

Singing loudly is deep breathing. If you want some topical perspective that doesn't reflect your current circumstance, look to African-American spirituals and capstan shanteys - choruses rich with lingering oh's, ah's, and ay's that render physiologically therapeutic relief very similar to crying and wailing.

Good luck.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: mg
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 03:46 AM

yeah...and I haven't seen you on mudchat yet. Free advice from and for the lovelorn. mg

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: open mike
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 01:20 AM

Music can be a theraputic thing, because it can help you touch that
place in you that feels joy, and sadness and the whole gamut of emotions. But sometimes just going thru the motions of feeling
can bring you closer to that place even if you are numb or not
in touch with your feelingas right now due to obstacles. My
parents both died this year, and I know there is not a set
way to respond to things in your life that are intense like
that. I know I have been fighting back tears recently, even
though it has been months since they were gone. I am sure
that we humans are resilient creatures, but sometimes it seems
that there is more to adjust to that any one should have to
learn about. I am trying to cope with the loss of my parents
as well as going thru divorce and the fact that the youngest
child has left home too--sometimes overwhelmed with loss.
I found that i got a lot of help from reading Pema Chodron's
books: "When Things Fall Apart" (*Heartfelt Advice for Difficult
Times)and "The Places that Scare You" these writings are from
a Buddhist perspective, written by a woman who is a Buddhist
"nun" at an Abbey in Canada. This author was presented to me
as a place to find answers, by a friend who said that among her
circle of friends there is a well-worn copy of the "Fall Apart"
book, and it has helped many people thru times of crisis. I re-
member that when i felt like i was finding loss in every direction,
I tried to look at it as an opportunity to find a new path, make
new steps and re-discover options. I kept visualizing that the
heat i felt coming from all directions was not only removing layers
of past situations, but forging me into a stronger person--the
image that was most helpful to me was a phoenix rising from the
flames and ashes to fly into a new day!! Let yourself find an
image of hope like that and remind yourself of the up-lifting
feelings from it. Pema Chodron's books are published by Shambhala
(www.shambhala.com) and there are books on tape of her at Great Path Tapes and books...http://www.pemachodrontapes.org/
ONe of the most memorable images in the "Fall Apart" book is of a
monk approaching a temple when the temple guard dog comes lunging at
him. instead of running if fear he goes toward it, which surprises
the dog , and it does not hurt him. This is a message of not runnintg from your fears, face them head-on, and you will conquer them!

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Mudlark
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 09:30 PM

I would no more suggest that someone get a dog or cat to help with depression than I would suggest a couple have a child to solve marriage problems. Having said that, however, I have to agree with Kate...my 3 dogs are sometimes the only thing that get me out of bed in the morning. They need action, they need exercise, they need attention, which gets me in motion. And they give affection, sloppy wet kisses, and are always good for a smile or a laugh, which never fails to make me feel at least a little better, usually a LOT better.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Richie
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 08:27 PM

There's nothing better than music to express your loss and feeling in a constructive way. Maybe you can write a song and by singing it- get the feeings out.

Some of my best songs were written out of despair!

-Richie

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: mg
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 01:31 PM

One thing I have noticed is that people talk about repeated relationship breakups. I am of the opinion that we are not designed (or did not evolve if you prefer) to handle numerous problems of this sort...Certainly one broken heart when we are 15 and perhaps another later on and perhaps a loss through death...but multiple people walking out on us...I don't think most of us are capable of it. (I'm either very fortunate or very careful because I haven't had too much of that and I would far rather be a spinster than a revolving door). I think we need to rethink this whole "relationship" thing and, without imposing it on others, decide if we want serial relationships and serial broken hearts or the clear-cut distinction between marriage and perhaps nothing at all. (This is generic rambling and not related to the specific situation...I know this one was hopefully heading toward marriage). And screen really carefully to know that you and the other are on the same wavelength as this, and don't believe for a minute that a "relationship" will somehow grow into a marriage. It may and it may not. mg

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: JennyO
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 09:36 AM

Hi Paul

Yes, we were very lucky to have you, too. I also find singing with the choir or in a session very therapeutic - if you can make yourself go out the door. I didn't quite make it tonight, so here I am on Mudcat, which also helps, just to be sharing thoughts with like-minded people.

I hope you are finding some nice people to sing with over there, until you work your way back to Oz

Jenny

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Clean Supper
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 06:13 AM

The only thing I would add to all the above advice is that performing when depressed can be unpleasant because you are more likely than average to believe your performance wasn't very good. I find it's often helpful to sing with a group. An open singing seesion or a friendly choir could be nice. When I lived in Sydney, I was very lucky to be introduced to the Solidarity Choir, which has no auditions and is large and very welcoming. There I could sing in a room full of song and it was lovely. Similarly with rousing sessions, you can be immersed, and take part, in live music - the most therapeutic form to take it in, I firmly believe. Go well.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 04:25 AM

I've very little to add to all the above good points, but when I've been depressed about a broken relationship, I've written a song or songs about it, then sung them and sung them in private until all the feeling has been sung out of them. I then throw them away. Those songs will never ever become public, they're my personal therapy and for no other ears.

I would also agree that time does heal all wounds. I find it usually takes a good twelve months before I'm back to normality, and different people probably have their own "usual" periods. With each broken relationship, though, I learn better how to cope - I've done it before, I can do it again. Remember back to previous breakups, identify the things that helped you to recover then, and apply those things again, plus other similar things. Time does its healing bit whether you're thinking about it or not, and I find it's easier all round if I think about it as little as possible. Do the physical exercises and get out as much as you can, see friends as much as you can, do things which will take your mind off it, however temporarily.

I would also add that until you are truly over one relationship, you cannot deal honestly with another. Stay away from new relationships until you are absolutely certain that the demons of this one have skidaddled back to wherever demons go. It is totally unfair to any new potential partner to still be grieving about the previous one.

I have been through the apathy of not being able to face going out, but I know if I'm able to make the (almost superhuman) effort, I do feel a lot better by going out. My way of getting out in those situations was to go through the motions of getting ready, going out the door, and getting to my destination, without thinking about it, just working on automatic pilot, only one step at a time, never consciously thinking beyond the next thirty seconds. Like you, there were times I didn't make it, but over time, and with effort, I was able to beat it more times than it was able to beat me.

Stick with it, Brett, you will come through in time.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 05:51 PM

Thanks whoever gave this thing a clinical name.. it sounds much better on the forms at work, rather than 'couldn't be arsed to get up because I can't face a day without.....' Sounds flippant, but it's true.

It also tells me why I've not wanted to sing as much as I used to - aside from the fact that the music director said some very hurtful things he's not apologised for, because he doesn't realise how nasty he was being.

Accomplish small steps. When you've done one step, try another. If you can't do it today, do it tomorrow, because tomorrow you know you've already done the first step without harm.

LTS

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: SINSULL
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 02:35 PM

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. Maybe it will help to take a close look at all three relationships and try to figure out the common factors. It could simply be that you are attracted to people who are not capable of loving you as you need to be loved. If you can identify the immediate attraction trigger, you will then know who is to be avoided. Of course, that means that you you will probably have to forego that intense "instant gratification" honeymoon time and concentrate on developing long term friendships that may (or may not) lead to commitment.

SINS, who wishes she could follow her own advice.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 02:12 PM

"COurse seeking intimacy with a quadruped is not the problem at hand" -- well actually, I found adopting a 14 month old puppy did good things for my depression, in order to meet her needs I had to get out and about 'cause if I don't walk her for at least an hour she turns into a volcano. Some days her walk was all I accomplished...but at least I did that!

Good luck in slaying your demons, it's hard work adn it takes time.

KateG

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: GUEST,jaze
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:25 PM

One thing I'm not sure I've seen mentioned above, is helping others. Volunteer at a homeless shelter or food kitchen. Immersing yourself in others misfortune can sometimes give you a whole new perspective about life and what's really important. This is not to downplay your problems but can help you to not dwell on them and also feel good about yourself. It works. All the best to you.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:08 PM

'COurse seeking intimacy with a quadruped is not the problem at hand, Kim, but I see the wisdom in your words. Loss only occurs in within a rigid horizon, and its power and its madness are built on the desire to stop things from moving. That's the nature of the thing.

The path out of loss is to make things start moving again, one way or another.

A

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Kim C
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 12:42 PM

Y'all follow along with me here for just a minute.

Remember in Dances with Wolves, how Wind In His Hair was so hateful to the Lieutenant at first? Finally they became friends. Wind In His Hair said something to the effect of, I didn't want to like you, because the woman was going to marry my best friend, and he was killed.

And the thing he said next has stuck with me always. He said...

I think he left because you were coming.

I remember that every time I feel a loss. Of course nothing can replace some of the people, things, situations we lose. New experiences have a beauty all their own, and somehow magically arrive when we are ready. And sometimes we discover, the things we lost, were really not that important after all.

Sure, it sucks in the meantime. A lot of us here know that firsthand. Sometimes you wonder if you will ever feel better, if you will just have to find joy in misery and learn to live with it. But look at how the sun comes up every morning; and even in parts of the world where there's 6 months of darkness, the sun still comes back, it just takes a little longer.

I understand how that right now you can feel like all relationships end in tears. But even the very best riders will tell you, you have to fall off the horse a lot before you can stay on. ;-)

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 12:37 PM

Brett:

Start with anything physical you can do at all, even if it is just emptying the trash. Cold or not, leave the house and walk around the block. Move that body. THrow snowballs. Make an igloo.   Plain physical action will at least start you rejoining the "time stream". If you WERE with someone who loved you right now, you'd want them to be kicking your sorry butt back into life as fast as possible. As you care for yourself, do your own butt kicking. You do not have to be terrorized or laid low. Struggle though it be -- and believe me I have been there -- the very best thing you can do is take boot out of mouth and apply to ass. The only way to get life back into your cells and nerves is to pour it on there yourself. Trust yourself to do that, fast.

Affection and regards,


A

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: GUEST,Pinetop Slim
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 12:35 PM

After all the good advice above, I feel a bit silly mentioning the I Ching, but it has helped me get out of the darkness a couple of times. When depressed, I tend also to get confused. Tossing the coins and studying the readings (I often have to read the same paragraph over and over; that counts as studying doesn't it?)seem to help me focus once again. Whether you regard the readings as erudite fortune cookie slips or not, they always seem to point to some basic values that I periodically need reminding of. Mozart certainly sounds better and woodwork looks more interesting. Whatever you do, take care of yourself. You're a very valuable contributor to Mudcat and I bet the same spirit accompanies you in the 3-D world.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Jim Colbert
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 12:22 PM

"anhedonia, or the loss of the ability to enjoy things you would normally enjoy is a classic symptom of depression"

Wow, I didn't know there was an actual name for this symptom. I'm dealing with this right now... I've been feeling like crap for about a week since not making it in our local showcase of our local folk series. (2 openings, only 11 entries. So pretty good odds, but I didn't make it again.) Now, yeah, rejection is a fact of life, and it's no big deal, but it's really made me question my worth as a songwriter and performer. (Truth be told, I am certainly no great performer, but I can get the point of my songs across, and I think I am a decent enough songwriter. Plus, to me doing original material of worth should count a little more than another cover of Paradise or whatever... I wasn't too impressed with the 2 folks that made it last year, but I also don't know what their demo/submission was like- in all fairness, it could have been much better than their live sets were. But anyway...)

As far as anhedonia, I haven't felt like touching the guitar since. There's just a big void where the part of my that usually says "hot dog! Got a half hour, let's get out the Taylor!"

For me, time is the great healer, and talking to the right person is good too...anyway, I think there's been some great advice here and most importantly, know that you're not alone. I think Townes Van Zandt described depression best when he said that it was like a big wave rolling in, and you could see it coming, and there wasn't nothing you could do to stop it...

but hopefully, we dry out soon enough. Take care, believe in yourself and be well.

Jim

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 12:06 PM

The advice to write songs, as given by a couple of people above, is what works best for me. It doesn't matter if they're any good or not. Pain is an excellent motivator, and creating something is good therapy. After all, that's where all those blues and cry-in-your-beer honkey tonk songs come from. Best thing about it is, this form of 'therapy' doesn't cost anything either.

Althought it might be hard to find sometimes, there's always a positive aspect to sad situations. They are opportunities for us to turn them into something useful/productive. And too, it could've been worse. You coulda got married, invested years in a commitment only to have all this crap rain down on you. Better now than later.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: wysiwyg
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 11:16 AM

Brett, my friend,

I have just one item that might help... all the stuff above is great, but... since you have been in this spot before, what is the one thing you could do, this time, different from what you have done before? What is that one thing that may feel like the last thing you'd normally choose to do, but which you COULD do, that would be JUST the thing to do?

Love and hugs,

~Susan