.the Ian Campbell Folk Group

Subject: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Compton
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 11:14 AM

Brummie Mudcatters may be able to help me on this!..For me,at least, at the beginning of my folk revival, I was greatly influenced by "The Ian Campbell Folk Group"...indeed that was where Dave Swarbrick got known. John Dunkerly, Banjo player died...but where are they now??...and who didn't (at one time) have a crush on Lorna Campbell?

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: mg
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 12:08 PM

they were incredibly good. Wish I still had my old record. mg

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Ballyholme
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 12:30 PM

Good question, Compton, and one I've asked several times over the past few years. The strange thing is, no one seems to have an answer. It seems odd that someone as influential as Ian Campbell (particularly during the early/mid 60s)should disappear from view, although we know that his two sons have done sterling work with UB40.

Oh, and don't forget, Compton, a certain young David Pegg was also a band member at one time.

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: harvey andrews
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 12:33 PM

Brian and Lorna divorced and Brian went back to working in wood, at one stage being employed on the restoration of the Orient Express carriages.I understand Ian is in Ireland running a pub, but I'm not sure. Mansell Davies one time bass player emigrated to Calgary and formed the fabulous Calgary folk club resident band,Dave Pegg joined Fairport and I don't know where Lorna is now.Iwas a jug O punch resident from 64 to the late 70's.

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: DonMeixner
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 12:35 PM

If you would like to replace those early recordings there are a number of them currently up on EBay.

Don

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 12:48 PM

Damn I loved those albums!

The first one I heard had Swarbrick playing several tunes and until then I wasn't aware of him. Absolutely loved his playing. It also had that version of "Dirty Old Town" with the completely out of tune mandolin, and oft repeated "wrong" note!

Any one else remember that? I simply couldn't believe they'd left it in there.......and then over the years I got to LOVE it!

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 01:43 PM

Rick, there is a saying as you probably are well aware of: If you play a wrong note play it five times more then people think it is intentional. Both Benbow and Diz Disley taught me that. When air time was limited and cost alot of money could a possible re-take could have been done? who knows? Harvey help me out there.
Once again I will dig around. I will ask Benbow and see if Disley knows anything.
If anyone else digs anything out please keep me informed I myself am quite a fan of Ian Campbell.

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: harvey andrews
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 02:30 PM

I recorded for the same record co, Transatlantic and studio time was at a premium, no overtime, so i guess they may have okayed the take and said let's do it again at the end of the session if there's time..there obviously wasn't.

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 08:54 PM

Ian Campbell turned up at Tonder Festival in Denmark a couple of years ago - looking the worse for wear but very much alive.
I found some of their albums in a second hand shop in Bristol a few years back, and Little Pot Stove Records are offering them from time to time. Two at least are out on a CD.

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: GUEST,Nerd, cookie must have expired
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 11:12 PM

Ian Campbell wrote a letter to the editor of a major paper (was it the Guardian?) at the time that Tpoic records reissued the Radio Ballads, pointing out that the series included two shows on which he, not Ewan MacColl, called the artistic shots. These "lost" programs were for some reason not reissued. This would have been mid to late 1999. The letter was not published, but the Musical Traditions online magazine (www.mustrad.org.uk) put it up as "enthusiasms #13." He certainly seemed as clear-minded as ever in the letter! That's the last I heard of him, though.

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Gurney
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 03:33 AM

I used to like that number that the flatpicker (I thought it was Lorna's brother) played, called 'Nothing To It.' How he hit the right strings with the guitar wobbling about like that.....

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 03:56 AM

Ian appeared on "Folk on Two" or whatever it was two or three years back, interviewed by Ralph McTell. He was living in Ireland, but I don't know what he was doing for a living. Lorna got nodules on her vocal chords some time back and won't sing any more, which is sad.

I expect Old Dave (I & L's father) and their mother (what was her name again?) must be dead by now, but I don't know when they went. John Dunkerly died in 1977 at a fairly young age.

Steve

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: GUEST,Moleskin Joe
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 04:10 AM

Ian Campbell made a CD of modern songs a few years ago. I think one of his sons was on it as well. Anyone remember the 1965 record of the entire Campbell extended family singing?

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 07:30 AM

I only discovered the Ian Campbell Group a few years ago & love them. I have Castle reprints of 4 Transatlantic records.

One has "This is the Ian Campbell Folk Group" - 1963 & "Across the Hill" - 1964, Castle recordings 1996
The other - "Contemporary Campbells" & "New impressions" (both mid-sixties), Castle 1997.

Issue 50 of Living Tradition advertises "Lorna Campbell singing the songs of Ian Campbell" STCD 5701 -
UK distributor Proper Music Distribution, The Power House, Cricket Lans, Beckenham, Kent BR3 1WA

I ordered it last week & am waiting patiently

sandra

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 10:07 AM

THIS Website suggests Pegg & Swarbrick weren't in the band at the same time but I'm sure I saw them in it together and they're together on at least one of the LPs I have. But knowing my CRS....

RtS

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 10:13 AM

THIS site says much the same.

RtS
(but I'm SURE I saw them together, grumble, grumble...)

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 10:20 AM

Google also came up with this quote from the 1999 Tenterden Folk Festival:

Also on this year's guest list are Ian and David Campbell. As David lives locally, in Bethersden, it seemed natural for him to get involved in the Festival. When he suggested that we get his father, Ian, along as well, it seemed like an opportunity too good to be missed. The Ian Campbell Folk Group was very well known in the 1960's and 70's. Ian was born and raised in Aberdeen, until he was fourteen, when his family moved to Birmingham. Although both of his parents were lifelong singers (and were to become a popular turn among traditionalists), his own music making began with The Clarion Singers, a socialist choir, and was kicked into another gear by what he usually refers to as "the great skiffle disaster". Ian formed a group, including his young sister Lorna, whose extra-ordinary voice was soon celebrated as perhaps the most dramatic of her generation and inspired many women singing today.




Under the influence of Ewan MacColl, with whom he was to work on the famous Radio Ballads, Ian abandoned the standard repertoire of Leadbelly, Guthrie and the like, and concentrated on the traditional music and song of the British Isles. The Ian Campbell Folk Group quickly became the most popular such group in the country, and hosted one of the most successful folk clubs, The Jug o' Punch. As well as the Campbells' outstanding singing, the group featured the instrumental combination of Dave Swarbrick's fiddle and John Dunkerley's banjo. Dave Pegg was a later member.

The group retired in the 1970's when Ian went to university, and he has since worked in broadcasting, teaching and community arts. He has continued with various song writing and composition projects, but has performed in public only occasionally, when asked. He's now resident in Ireland, and so is to be heard even less frequently in England so we are extremely lucky to have him booked for Tenterden Folk Festival.

RtS

(I'll get me coat..)

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Trevor
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 11:51 AM

I'm sure I remember somebody I worked with in the early seventies telling me that Ian Campbell had been her teacher - have I got that right?

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Compton
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 07:23 PM

Yes, Trevor, I think teaching was Ian Campbell day job!...and what i think he went back to when the group broke up. The LP "This is the Ian Campbell Folk Group" (TRA110) gave the line up as Ian Campbell, Lorna Campbell, Brian Clark, Dave Swarbrick,John Dunkerly...and also on the record, Dave Phillips, Brian Brocklehurst on Bass. On the LP "Ian Campbell and the Ian Campbell Folk Group with Dave Swarbrick" (MFP 1349)included Dave Pegg and Andy Smith (banjo and guitar) John Dunkerly had died by then.....was this their last LP??

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 06:46 AM

I believe Ian was a silver engraver originally.

Steve

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Essex Girl
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 08:58 AM

The Ian Campbell Folk Group were the first act I ever saw in Harlow Folk Club back in the sixties. I've been hooked ever since. Sad to hear about Lorna, she had a marvellous voice.

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 09:47 AM

The first time I went out to see a real Folk-singer was in ... about 1968, when I was slightly under age. I went to the MEB Social Club in Green Lane, Walsall, to see ... someone whose name escapes me -- and proabaly everybody else -- completely. She was ill, so they got Ian Cambell and Brian Clark to cover for her. And I was a lost soul from that day forward ...

Just for the record, there was a boom in female folkies just then. They all had long straight hair (think of Jacqui McShea, Julie Felix). David Jacobs had an early evening tv show on BBC1 called, with great inspiration, The Wednesday Show (every Wednesday). His resident folkie was ... this young lady. No idea who she was, or what happened to her.

Steve

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 09:51 AM

Steve is right, that's where Ian met John -in the jewelry trade. As well as the "...with Dave Swarbrick" LP Compton mentions, I have 3 others. One is "Something to Sing about" (Pye PKL 5506) which is based on an ATV series that was a sort of tv equivalent of the radio ballads and had a mixture of traditional and Ian-written songs. Personnel is Ian, Lorna (I agree, lovely voice),John,Brian with Spike Heatley on bass and Derek Craft on flute & piccolo.
"The Circle Game" (Transatlantic TRA 163), which includes Harvey Andrews' song "On the M1", has Ian,Lorna, Brian and John with George Watts on flute and Pegg on bass. "The Sun is burning" (Argo ZFB 13) has no personnel listed but is arranged by Jazz vibes player Bill Le Sage. It includes the Apprentices' Song written about Saltley Gasworks - I was born in sight (and smell) of them. (The gasworks, not the apprentices).
I think the concert I remember (oh, give up, Roger!)must have had Swarb as a special guest, and may have been in Birmingham Town Hall 1968 or '69? Before I moved to London end of '69 any road up.

RtS
(soggy with nostalgia -not least for record labels,tv companies, and gasworks long since gone!)

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Nerd
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 11:19 AM

Swarb often performed as a "special guest" with the ICFG even after he went on to be Martin Carthy's partner. He also appeared on a few of their LPS. Thus, there ARE LP sleeves with photos of the band that feature both Swarb and Pegg. But I think by then Swarb was not an Official member.

It was because Swarb knew Pegg from the Campbell group that Pegg got an audition with Fairport. The other members were reluctant because they wanted a rock and roll bassist, not a folkie. Little did they know Pegg had been friends with and played with the Led Zeppelin guys early on, or that he would go on to be in Jethro Tull for so many years. But Swarb persisted, Pegg blew the guys away at the audition, etc.

BTW, one of the Radio Ballads that Campbell worked on was about the jewelry trade. He was asked to do it by Charles Parker precisely because he had experience as a craftsman engraver.

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: GUEST,Tom
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 04:35 PM

Go on, go on, you Roger and anyone else who, like me, is still able to hear(in memory) every note and word of Ian, Lorna and the group. They were my 'epiphany' (is that the correct term) in folk music and for numerous years I attempted, with various combinations of friends, to reproduce their sound and style. They were marvellous.
I am intrigued to hear that Ian is now resident in Ireland...where! where? Not that I would make a nuisance of myself but I would dearly love an opportunity to thank him personally for the pleasure he and the band brought to thousands .Does anyone know where he might be addressed even?
So sad to hear of Lorna's retirement I thought she was even better than Ronnie Gilbert in that genre of music. Also saddening to find out that John is dead, one never thinks that those whose photos always look the same , even on old record sleeves , are no longer performing and enjoying making music.
One question ; why , I wonder, did Ian always plump for the 5-string banjo (Andy's style was almost bluegrass) rather than a tenor? Not that I'm complaining I cannot imagine a better combo than he did put together, but, would not the 5-string have been more identified with American music?

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 03:28 AM

The way Johhn played banjo, he could have played with the CBSO! He could play just about anything, I think: he was very good on the guitar, and astounding on the piano. John was "musical director" at the short-lived Shantasea Music hall (prop B. Roberts), and John Forman, guetsing one night, said "I've heard him play the banjo, but I never knew he was a musiscan! Black notes, white notes, all indiscriminately!" He was entertaining (I kid you not) on the accordian too. And on top of it all, he was such a modest bloke: not a bit the kind of multi-talented pratt you often come across: a thoroughly nice chap, and one we were all happy to have known.

Steve

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: harvey andrews
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 06:53 AM

When John Dunkerley left the group he joined me on the road. We began to write together and co-wrote some songs for the album I recorded later called "Someday". It was very exciting to work with such a fine musician as John and he was really enjoying tackling a different kind of music and song approach. Unfortunately he was never well. We had some great gigs, went to Germany, Holland,Sardinia and Malta and did radio and tv.
Our first gig together was at the cambridge Arts Theatre 8/2/76 and our last gig together was at the Tramshed in Greenwich 27/2/77. All told we made 82 appearances, John having treatment throughout the period and therefore missing gigs I had to do solo.
We got on extremely well. John was a model pro and a great companion, on and off stage.I have nothing but fond memories of that time. We both decided to move from our homes to the village where I now live so as to be close enough to work everyday. John and his wife paid a deposit on a new house and I bought another and we moved in. Because of his illness John never made it to the village.
His wife re-married and she has been to gigs of mine in Colchester. His sister has been to a gig of mine in London, Ontario.

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: GUEST,Tom
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 02:56 PM

Who plays banjo on the group's version of the "Engineer's Song" ?? or is that the name of the song about the railway fireman ?
It gives a great rythym to it and , I feel, could have been based on a song called "The Cockfight" that they also recorded (and which is the subject of another thread)

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: GUEST,Tom
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 02:59 PM

Another thing that always thrills me, which I meant to mention in last post, is the way Lorna's magnificent voice comes soaring in to merge with the fiddle intro on "Hard Life on the Cut", don't you think so?

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: RolyH
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 03:54 PM

Another good one is "The Praties they Grow Small". Lornas voice and Swarbs fiddle seem to compliment each other brilliantly.

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Gurney
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 05:38 AM

Minutiae from memory: Ian took the micky out of Andy's 5-string (While we Scots were singing music, the Americans were inventing drone strings...) As RolyH says, 'The Praties ...' as sung by Lorna was a hard act to follow, I've heard it about twice in 30 years.... I still have a screw capotasta made and sold by Andy, inevitably called 'the Andycappo... Happy memories.

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 08:26 AM

Andy Smith made his own banjos (is that the utmost depth of Sad?!), including a square one, I kid you not. We had one of Andy's long jobs at the Songsmiths FC in Walsall, but Mike James took it with him when he went off to join Scotch Mist. Wonder what ever happened to it/him/them?

Steve

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 11:42 AM

Just to let you know that this thread has some fascinated lurkers. I'm expecting it to end up with more posts than the "UFOs and jesus" threads!

Rick

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 12:39 PM

I do have to say one of my favourite tracks of theirs is "Death come easy." A cracking song Harvey! Another favourite of mine is the "Liverpool Lullaby." I have sung that a few times myself. That is a under-appreciated song.

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: GUEST,frankie-t
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 02:36 PM

Ah, memories, I have in front of me an autographed copy of the penguin book of english folk songs,
   It sez, Best wishes, (with a little face drawing)Ian Campbell, Lorna Campbell, Jack Dunkerly, and Brian Clark.
   They played a narmy folk club in Herford, W. germany, and as I had a twelve string they invited me onstage to play along, I still have a recording of it somewhere. (about 1972)(and they played the engineer's song).

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Compton
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 07:56 PM

It is great that the ICFG have not been forgotten. Whilst I would not wish for Ian to be disturbed with what he is doing now, wouldn't it be nice, if he is in Ireland, for someone to tell him he hasn't been forgotten!

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: smike
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 09:20 PM

Re:Andy Smith's banjos. Andy was a fine engineer, and he made some brilliant banjos with no hint of sadness about the activity, and I suggest you may care to look elsewhere for that, Steve. Mike James is indeed alive and well and , at the moment, I am playing cittern with Birmingham's own Irish convert, Tommy Dempsey, but where on earth you got the idea from that I should have been in possession of Andy's square banjo, Steve, I have no printable conception. I did several gigs with Andy and the Smith Family, and I once made an experimental ceramic tone ring for another of his banjos. Folks may not be aware, as I was only recently informed, that Andy is not in the best of health (I have not seen him for a number of years), and is tragically suffering from Huntington's Chorea, the illness which struck down Woody Guthrie.
As for Ian Campbell, I believe he now lives in Kilkenny, and is also not in the best of health.

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 07:04 AM

Mike! How wonderfull to hear from you! I'm delighted to hear you're still up and doing, and equally delighted to hear that Tommy is too. We don't hear about these things in Milton Keynes, you know. Very sad news about Andy; it's not the sort of thing where we can say "get well soon", is it? I shall dig out "Reflections" tonight and think about things ...

My tongue was firmly in my cheek when I made that crack about sad! (It's now back in its accustomed place, sticking out of the corner of my mouth while I'm typing.) What I meant about the Songsmiths' banjo was that it was another of Andy's, not the square one. So Roberts told me, anyway.

Steve

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 10:13 PM

Maybe one of you fine folks can answer this question for me. My first post on Mudcat was to ask about a song I'd heard in the past, that turned out to be Ian Campbell's "Apprentice Song." I had the tune and part of the words in my memory, and had written other words for it. Does anybody know, though, if the tune had another source? It sounds like it may originally have been a hymn tune. However, I wouldn't be surprised if it had been newly crafted to have that sound.

My query resulted in a fascinating discussion about old tools and such. If anyone's interested, you can find it here. And thanks, Roger, for giving us the name of the gasworks. My first home when I lived in Seattle was within view of Gasworks Park, which had been the site of the municipal gasworks but now is a lovely green expanse at the north end of Lake Union, with some of the massive old equipment painted in bright primary colors.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: smike
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 07:50 AM

Just like you, Harvey, I owe so much to Ian and the group for leading me in such interesting musical directions all those years ago. Only in the last few days, I came across one of John Dunkerly's old handwritten set lists which had somehow found its way amongst junk in one of my old guitar cases. Ian once told me that when he and John worked together in the Birmingham jewellery quarter, John helped to develop his natural pitch by listening to the chiming of a clock in the workshop day after day.
Mansell Davies, who played bass with the Campbells, began with The Settlers and moved on to The Corries (in the days when they were four).I shared a couple of flats with him, and we did the odd few gigs together. He told me you were playing at his club in Calgary ,Harvey, when I emailed him a while ago. Sounds like a great place to play, modelled on Mansell's recollcted image of the old Jug of Punch, so I'm told. My, how the strands weave and tangle!

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: harvey andrews
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 08:18 AM

Yes, the debt I owe the Campbell family and the Jug O Punch is vast.
Great days! I plan to write about it one day, when I have the time.

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 08:20 AM

This has to be one of my favorite kind of Mudcat threads, as a window into times past in a parallel universe.

Thanks to all!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 10:10 AM

No, Charley: this is the parallel universe; it's the real one we're talking about!

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Frug
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 11:33 AM

Fond rememberances of the Campbells include Ian introducing a guitarist who had an Ovation guitar as, "a man playing half a Japanese canoe". Other memories include the session at the Station in Kings Heath in Birmingham where I occasionally played with the resident band. All the Campbells were regulars including old Dave and Betty who were easily coaxed to sing. The UB40s were also in evidence. On one occasion when they were all called upon to do a family turn someone from the audience called for a request........Ians response was "over 600 songs in our repertoire and you want the one in bloody Swahili.....................good times

Frank

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 12:26 PM

Brian Clark: "What did you say your name was, son?"
Floor singer: "Simon."
BC: "What's your other name?"
FS: "Paul."
BC: "Let's have a big hand for Simon Paul!"

Subject: The Hole in the wall
From:
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:05 AM

Can anyone help me to find the lyrics of the song that includes:

"If ever you go to Kilkenny
Look out for the Hole in the Wall
You'll get there drunk for a penny
And porter for nothing at all"

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: VIN
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 10:03 AM

One of my favourites is 'The Old Man's Song', a great song and the message is still, sadly, as relevant today as when the words were first written which is why i try and sing it as often as i can.

Never heard Ian sing it tho. First time i heard it sung was by Gerry Brady from the original 'Beggarmen'.

Also like 'Eight Shillings A Week'.

Subject: RE: .the Ian Campbell Folk Group
From: breezy
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 01:18 PM

the boys are in Barnt Green
bit of a snobby area

Will ask my contacts to ask after Ian