Anthology of American Folk Music

Subject: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 09:39 AM

Floyd Ming and the Pep Steppers, Nelstones Hawaians, The Masked Marvel, Doc Boggs, Clarence Ashley, The Carter Family, Blind Willie Johnson... just the names send shivers down my spine. They are just a sampling of what makes the Anthology of American Folk Music such a treasure, and endless resource for music.

I came to New York City in 1960, and thought folk music was Lonnie Donegan, the Kingston Trio, Bob Gibson and Harry Belefonte. Shortly after I arrived, I discovered Greenwich Village and Dave Van Ronk. For three months, I took lessons from Dave and part of each lesson was to listen to songs he'd play from the Anthology. He'd be sitting on the edge of his bed, and I'd be sitting in an old straight chair, and he'd gently place the needle on one of the records, and out would come these amazing sounds. I first heard the Carter Family then, and I remember the chills going down my spine when he played Dark Was The Night, Cold Was The Ground by Blind Willie Johnson. At one time, I played just about every song on the Songs and Ballads records. Those albums formed much of the foundation of the folk revival here in America. I'm not aware of an exact equivalent in England or Ireland, but I had individual albums by singers like A.L. Lloyd, Ewan McColl and Jean Redpath that excited me in much the same way. But, A.L., Ewan and Jean were very much alive. I never did hear any collection of earlier traditional singers.

Now, I hear people refer to James Taylor, Paul Simon or Joanie Mitchell as their sources, and their eyes glaze over if you mention Clarence Ashley or even Mississippi John Hurt. It seems like over here, there's more Irish Tradional music being played by Americans than American traditional music. Every radio station has their "Irish Hour," but no one has an "American Hour." I stopped playing The Cuckoo, as I learned it from the classic Clarence Ashley recording, because I thought it was as over sung as White Christmas.
That was, until I realized that very few people had heard it.

What I want to know is, which Mudcatters still love the Anthology (or similar recordings) and are carrying on the tradition of American folk music? Who sings Peg and Awl?, or John Johanna? Henry Lee? (I know Sandy and Caroline sing that one) The Butcher's Boy? Fatal Flower Garden? Spike Driver Blues?

And, any thoughts, observations or prejudices about the relative popularity of Irish and American folk music in this country? or being in a band and being more instrumentally focused than being a singer who plays an instrument for accompaniment? Many, if not most of us come out of a rock and roll and pop music environment... are we more attuned to hearing bands than a solo performer? Who can still enjoy unaccompanied solo singing? (I can) Or, any a capella music.

Times change and tastes change. Is there still a love of the old American music? And what counterparts are there with our British friends?

Jerry

---

Click here for the Anthology Website
Click here for Volume 4
NPR Page on the Anthology

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: GUEST,Gern
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 11:27 AM

The music I play in public is a schizo mixture: traditional hillbilly stuff on clawhammer banjo at one gig, ragtime and traditional jazz on piano at another (primarily nursing homes these days). In my banjo persona, I do plenty of tunes from some of the names you list. Among theese regulars are Dock Boggs (Railroad Tramp, Sweet Sunny South), Carter Family (Little Darling Pal of Mine, Little Moses, Gold Watch and Chain, Picture on the Wall), Blue Sky Boys (Knoxville Girl),Mainer's Mountaineers (What'll I Do with the Baby-o, Down in that Old Canoe, On a Cold Winter's Night), Clarence Ashley (Crawfish Song, Shout Little Lulu), Roscoe Holcomb (Little Birdie, Motherless Children) scads of Uncle Dave Macon and others that straddle the dotted line between folk and country. As the folks at the Bluegrass Shop in St. Pete will attest (see related thread), I even forcefeed these tunes into the bluegrass jam, so as to counteract the more modern trappings of contemporary bluegrass. I find that most of my listeners have never heard these songs, yet their quality comes shining thru. I also find Mudcat a priceless source of lyrics and background info on this music. I do also attempt a capella singing (Waltz of the Angels, My Pretty Quadroon, Motherless Children), but find this to be the only regular occasion where I confront substantial stage fright.

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 11:33 AM

All good stuff... add Mary of the Wild Moor (not on the anthology) by the Blue Sky Boys... a favorite of theirs that I still do.. Good to hear someone else is doing the music..

Jerry

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: Francy
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 11:45 AM

I have the entire collection on LP and now have it on CD as well as the two subsequent cd's issued on Revenant Records...Play them all the time.   In fact I've played them on occasion on PalTalk.....A fabulous collection of music....I love them Frank of Toledo

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 11:58 AM

Jerry...Ref British stuff. Watch your letter box. Tape on the way. Burl

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 12:24 PM

Think I'll go check the mail..

Jerry

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: chip a
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 12:36 PM

With the popularity of old time dance tunes (which I also love) it seems that the songs are being left behind. I can't sing but I love to hear and play for singers of these old songs. My wife is learning more and more including Mary of the Wild Moor.
:-),
Chip

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: Mark Ross
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 01:58 PM

I didn't get to hear the Anthology until 6 or 7 years ago, but I was familiar with so much of the material it was llike meeting an old friend, and some new ones. Speaking of which, I did get to meet Harry Smith when I worked at the New York Folklore center in the '70's. He was just as strange as people said he was, but what magnificent work he did!
The Anthology seems to have set the course of the underground music scene since it came out 50 years ago.

HERE'S TO HARRY SMITH, MAY HIS NAME FOREVER STAND,
MAY HE ALWAYS BE REMEMBERED BY THE FOLKIES THROUGH THE LAND,
NOW HIS RACE IS OVER AND THE CURTAIN ROUND HIM FALLS,
MAY HIS SPIRIT EVER LINGER ON THE WABASH CANNONBALL!

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 02:12 PM

Yes! Yes! Yes! I've come to the American stuff round about, being more interested in the ballads in their British Isles versions, initially, but now exploring what there is (was) on both sides of the pond. I put down my guitar a long time ago and now play banjo and concertina -- but the songs come out best when I'm not distracted by either. I like to hear them that way, too.

I've only recently come to the Anthology (taking this stuff up after its time), but it was preceded in my collection by the recordings of traditional singers from the Warner collection, Folk-Legacy, and the Lomax and other stuff from Rounder.

Truly traditional stuff from England, Scotland, Ireland, as well as America, Italy, and more? Check out my favorite site, Musical Traditions for articles and reviews. If you want an Anthology-like sampler of English traditional song (with some of the others thrown in), it's Topic's Voice of the People series. I'd say it's the modern and U.K. equivalent of the Anthology. The big difference is that it's so big very few people probably buy the entire set. Still, some is better than none.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: pattyClink
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 02:35 PM

Good subject, Jerry. I think the Boomers were just way more into rock'n'roll, while trad songs were passe stuff in school music textbooks. After the 60s folk revival passed, I think the minority who discovered they really liked folk best transferred their allegiance to singer-songwriters and never looked back. Everybody else got into blues-rock, southern-rock, bluegrass, or Irish, wherever their tastes led from there. The "Roots" phenomenon further reinforced people's narrow ethnic tastes and leanings, people learned they might 'belong' to Irish songs in a way they just didn't feel "right" singing Appalachian stuff (yeah I know it's all related, but you try singing with a Wisconsin accent at a bluegrass meet).

it's like everything else, we've devolved into 100 cable channels of music instead of mass networks we all know. Which is progress in one way and not-progress in another way. If you are suggesting this is a hole in our culture that needs filling, I think you're right.

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 02:54 PM

Noted on the wrapper of my box of cds is a label indicating distribution by Sony. This may make it easier and faster to obtain through your local recorded music shop.

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: Mark Clark
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 02:58 PM

I don't own a copy of The Anthology but I used to check it out often from the local public library about the same time that DVR was playing cuts for Jerry. I'm sure the records spent more time at my house than at the library.

Those cuts and others like them are still what I think of as folk music. I've never owned a record by either of the Bobs (Gibson or Dylan) and actually wouldn't recognize the songs or voices of most of the modern singers usually associated with “folk” today.

I do own several Jean Ritchie albums though as well as records of some of the individual artists on the anthology. Of course I have several DVR records too.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 02:59 PM

PattyClink,

You're having the trouble that I sometimes have as a New Jersey girl... check out Rounder's recent reissue of Folk Music From Wisconsin, from the Library of Congress Archive of Folk Culture for some inspiration.

What I find frustrating about the field of American traditional song (and tunes) is that there's some assumption that the only interesting stuff is southern Appalachian. There is so much more, but it's sure a lot harder to find recordings and other sources (though they're certainly out there). Maybe it's because of John and Alan Lomax's focus. And, that influential Anthology was pretty strictly southern material, too.

One could argue that the southern stuff is more uniquely American, that the years of isolation in the rural mountains had created something extra special. Some stuff collected in the northeast, for example might be characterized as sounding like stuff from the British Isles merely sung in an American (or Canadian) accent. But I think that's selling it short. There's certainly a lot of material that was written in North American, in the logger's camps, for example, that tells a whole other set of wonderful stories and is clearly American in its own way. And the stuff that was imported and and then adapted by northeasterners has its own charm.

So, yeah, more American trad!!

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: pattyClink
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 03:12 PM

Actually, no, Becky, I'm not having that trouble. You might want to check out some Lee Murdock stuff though, if you're looking for more Midwest material.

Lee's Site

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 03:13 PM

We Are Anchored By The Roadside, Jim, Little Brown Bulls, The Jam On Gerry's Rocks, Lost Jimmy Whalen ... there is a great wealth of northern traditional American music. My friend Chris Shaw, among several others are keeping that tradition (and the associated story-telling alive.)

Jerry

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: Amos
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 03:16 PM

Jerry:

I still sing lots of songs that might have been included in that Anthology, although I do not have a copy of it -- Wild Goose Grasses, The Cuckoo, Polly, Pretty Polly, Turtle Dove, are a few that pop to mind off hand. I really should get a set, from what you say.

James Taylor, Paul Simon or Joanie Mitchell are not folk-music sources, although they are talented singers and songwriters. But the culture overall has been through a watershed change since the days of Blind Willy and the Carters -- urbanization, industrialization, and electronification have markedly changed where music grows from. And we're on the downside of that watershed, in a manner of speaking.

A

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 04:35 PM

Although our first exposure to folk music was the Kingstin Trio and their ilk, we soon discovered the Anthology and, like Mark Clark, the local library's copy spent a lot of time at our house. Now we own the CD version.

Not only do we sing many of the songs we learned from the Anthology, we sing 'em in schools in an attempt to demonstrate to today's kids that there is more to music than the stuff they listen to on the radio. And yes, we do an occasional unaccompanied song in schools, too. Kids love this stuff and we frequently hear them singing King Kong Kitchi Kitchie Ki Mi Oh or When That Great Ship Went Down on the playground. What a treat!

Maybe, just maybe, we're creating a few future mudcatters.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: wilco
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 05:16 PM

In East Tennessee, where I live, much of this has never changed. Festival season starts in two weeks(Dillard's in Rome, Georgia), and there will be about 1500 people there who play all of those songs.
    Last summer, I ran into an elderly mandoline player who used to
drive Uncle dave Macon around to his shows. He had hundreds of great stories.
    Last night, I played with a guy who grew-up with Gid Tanner's family. His son was in his band for a time amny years ago.
    Music by people like James Taylor, Bob Dylan, or the Kingston Trio are put in the same category as Wayne Newton, N'Sync, and Manilla Vanilla: fabricated creations of an commercial urban culture, fed by a entertainment industry.
    I suspect that, if you're in a urban setting, things are very different.

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: Mark Clark
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 05:26 PM

That does it for me… I'm moving to Wilco48's neighborhood.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Anthology of American Folk Music
From: Frankham
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 05:41 PM

Hey Mark,
Maybe you oughta' come down to Georgia.

" Last night, I played with a guy who grew-up with Gid Tanner's family.",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Phil Tanner and the Tanner family live out in Dacula, just a few miles from Atlanta. They get together every now and again.

Frank