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Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie

DigiTrad:
MAGGIE
WHEN YOU AND I WERE YOUNG, MAGGIE


Related threads:
(origins) Origin: When You And I Were Young, Maggie (22)
Tom Rush: When You and I Were Young, Maggie (31)
Maggie and Nora (5)
Lyr Req: When I first said I loved only you, (8) (closed)
Lyr Req: When you & I were young, Maggie - Redpath (27)
Lyr Req: When You and I Were Young, Maggie (17)
Lyr Req: Maggie (9) (closed)
Lyr Req: Maggie (from de Danaan) (11) (closed)
Tune Req: Maggie (16)
Info Req: When You and I Were Young, Maggie (22)


Susan Olin 12 Jul 98 - 07:56 PM
Mick Lowe 12 Jul 98 - 08:01 PM
Dale Rose 12 Jul 98 - 08:45 PM
Joe Offer 12 Jul 98 - 08:55 PM
Alice 12 Jul 98 - 09:13 PM
Alice 12 Jul 98 - 09:22 PM
Dale Rose 12 Jul 98 - 09:28 PM
Barbara Shaw 13 Jul 98 - 12:48 PM
Håvard 13 Jul 98 - 03:56 PM
Bojangles 31 Jul 98 - 11:40 PM
Gene 01 Aug 98 - 06:06 PM
Dale Rose 30 Jun 00 - 11:33 AM
Jacob B 30 Jun 00 - 05:26 PM
Genie 11 Jan 03 - 11:22 AM
Barry T 11 Jan 03 - 01:55 PM
GUEST,Tom Hamilton 11 Jan 03 - 11:51 PM
GUEST,Tom Hamilton (Sydney Devine fan, sorry folks 11 Jan 03 - 11:54 PM
Joe Offer 12 Jan 03 - 12:30 AM
Joe Offer 12 Jan 03 - 01:07 AM
masato sakurai 12 Jan 03 - 01:20 AM
Joe Offer 12 Jan 03 - 02:37 AM
masato sakurai 12 Jan 03 - 05:04 AM
masato sakurai 12 Jan 03 - 05:26 AM
Genie 12 Jan 03 - 03:22 PM
GUEST,jaze 13 Mar 03 - 08:24 PM
Genie 14 Mar 03 - 11:04 PM
GUEST 10 Sep 03 - 09:27 PM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 11 Sep 03 - 12:09 AM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 11 Sep 03 - 01:12 AM
Charley Noble 27 Oct 03 - 02:58 PM
Ferrara 27 Oct 03 - 08:03 PM
SINSULL 27 Oct 03 - 10:16 PM
Mark Ross 28 Oct 03 - 03:31 PM
GUEST,jendiburn85 09 Apr 04 - 04:30 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 09 Apr 04 - 04:40 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 09 Apr 04 - 05:06 PM
Charley Noble 09 Apr 04 - 05:25 PM
erinmaidin 09 Apr 04 - 06:20 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 09 Apr 04 - 07:43 PM
Malcolm Douglas 09 Apr 04 - 08:34 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 09 Apr 04 - 10:47 PM
Reiver 2 10 Apr 04 - 11:12 PM
Barry T 11 Apr 04 - 02:18 AM
GUEST,Pete 13 Aug 04 - 08:03 AM
IanC 13 Aug 04 - 09:48 AM
Big Jim from Jackson 20 Oct 04 - 05:58 PM
GUEST,Meaghan 23 Nov 04 - 09:11 PM
GUEST,mg 14 Mar 12 - 06:57 PM
Elmore 15 Mar 12 - 02:01 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 15 Mar 12 - 04:09 PM
PHJim 15 Mar 12 - 09:57 PM
GUEST,mg 15 Mar 12 - 11:10 PM
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Subject: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Susan Olin
Date: 12 Jul 98 - 07:56 PM

I'm trying to find the words to the older European version of Maggie--not the one on the database.


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Mick Lowe
Date: 12 Jul 98 - 08:01 PM

Susan,
Since you're called Susan and I'm called Mick (Michael to my mother!), I presume you refering to the song called Maggie, or even to the song named "Nora" which I've found to be almost identical, both of which you can find here Irish@prof.co.uk or here
Mick


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Dale Rose
Date: 12 Jul 98 - 08:45 PM

If the song has an older version than that of Johnson and Butterfield, I am unaware of it. The following is an account of how it came to be written in 1864. The references after the title refer to recordings made by John McCormack. There are several songs which seem related, however.

When You and I Were Young, Maggie (George Washington Johnson/James Austin Butterfield)
B 23525-1, -2 (11 December 1919)
BVE 23525-3, -4 (17 December 1925)
broadcast (1 January 1926)
Notes: According to the notes by Philip Lieson Miller for RCA LP ARL1-1698 ("When You and I Were Young Maggie." Robert White, Tenor), this song commemorates one Maggie Clark, born in Glanford, Ontario. George Johnson also was born in this area, where he eventually became a teacher in a local school. The two became engaged and eventually married. The song alludes to features in the countryside there, including an old sawmill located on a creek near Maggie's home. After marriage the two moved to Cleveland, but Maggie died less than a year later (in May 1865). She was buried near her old home, and Washington too came home to Canada, where he was a Professor at the University of Toronto. The poem was first published in 1864. After his wife's death, Washington arranged for it to be set to music by Butterfield, who then lived in Detroit. He was a music teacher and minor composer, whose numerous other works are largely forgotten. The poem and the song attained great popularity in post-Civil War America. Maggie's sister published this background information in 1941, in response apparently to various erroneous tales of its origins that had circulated.

Incidentally, the site (by Paul W. Worth of Manchaca, Texas) which I got this from is an excellent resource on John McCormick, his life and recordings. I recommend it highly.


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jul 98 - 08:55 PM

I'm sure glad you posted that, Dale. That song has special meaning for a dear friend who lost her husband after five short years of marriage - they sang "Maggie" at their wedding.

Susan has me curious about the "older European version." I guess maybe it's not a "version," but perhaps a different song with the same title??? Susan, can you tell us anything more about the song?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Alice
Date: 12 Jul 98 - 09:13 PM

I enjoyed the John McCormack website, but the link you gave didn't work. I had to backtrack to find it at:
http://www.jump.net/~pwworth

My maternal grandmother's name was Maggie, and my grandfather used to sing the song to her. I'm glad to get the historical information, and I am wondering if there is a confusion with some other song Susan is requesting that was written to the same tune.

alice


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Subject: Lyr Add: WHEN YOU AND I WERE YOUNG, MAGGIE
From: Alice
Date: 12 Jul 98 - 09:22 PM

I just looked in the database and see that there are only two verses there. I have a book called "Songs of the Pioneers", compiled by Albert Brumley, which includes another verse. Lyrics by George Johnson:

3rd verse
They say I am feeble with age, Maggie,
My steps are less spritely than then
My face is a well written page, Maggie,
But time alone was the pen.
They say we are aged and grey, Maggie,
As spray by the white breakers flung,
But to me you are fair as you were, Maggie,
When you and I were young.

alice in montana


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Dale Rose
Date: 12 Jul 98 - 09:28 PM

I don't know why it did not work. What it says is not what I typed~~somehow it seems to have gotten mixed up with the Mudcat url. Anyway, here is the correct address, minus all the fancies.

http://www.moontower.com/pwworth/


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 13 Jul 98 - 12:48 PM

There's also a song on the DT just called "Maggie" which I've heard done by Maura O'Connell, to the same tune, but different lyrics from what I'm seeing above in this thread. Do a search on [violets are scenting the woods] to find it.

I've heard this done in 3/4 time as well as 4/4, while the other "When You and I Were Young, Maggie" is usually 4/4. Both are done to the same melody.


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Håvard
Date: 13 Jul 98 - 03:56 PM

Seàn O'Casey used the tune from George W.Johnsons song "When you and I were young Maggie" in his play "The Plough and the Stars" (which I believe is the same one that caused riots among the audience) - changing the title/song to suit the lead character Nora Clitheroe. However, when De Danann (with Mary Black) recorded this song they used the "Nora"-song lyrics, changing only the name Nora back to Maggie (but not singing the original song)
Håvard


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Bojangles
Date: 31 Jul 98 - 11:40 PM

I first heard this song sung by an old entertainer to his wife at the Malamute Saloon in Fairbanks, Alaska. It really hit me, and I wished there was another verse. I added as a last 1/2 verse:

So let us stroll by the old rusty mill, Maggie, Remembering the songs that were sung, And let us sing of the days that are gone, Maggie, When you and I were young.

....and thats the way I sing it to my lovely wife of thirty years. We both love the song. Peter Stanley


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Gene
Date: 01 Aug 98 - 06:06 PM


* CLICK HERE * To hear a recording.


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Dale Rose
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 11:33 AM

Link updates: The link I gave for the John McCormack site no longer works. It is now http://www.jump.net/~pwworth/index.html as Alice gave it.

The link that Gene gave no longer has Maggie on it, but does contain lots of other neat songs.

At the moment, it has Gene Autry, My Hero-Marty Robbins

Who's Gene Autry-Johnny Cash

Mr. Autry-The Statler Brothers

Back In The Saddle Again

Silver Haired Daddy Of Mine-Gene Autry

Empty Cot In The Bunkhouse-Gene Autry

Red River Valley-Me-Gene Autry

Be Honest With Me-Gene Autry

Tweedle O Twill-Gene Autry

Happy Trails-Roy Rogers & Dale Evans

Hoppy, Gene and Me-Roy Rogers

Cigareetes And Whusky-Sons of the Pioneers

Don't Bite The Hand That Feeds You-Johnny Bond

Rawhide-Frankie Laine

Old Rivers-Walter Brennan

Dutchman's Gold-Walter Brennan

Life Gets Teejus-Carson Robison

The Gandy Dancers' Ball-Frankie Laine

Thunder Road-Robert Mitchum

Ringo-Lorne Greene

Redneck-Vernon Oxford

Castle In The Sky-Marty Robbins

Pretty Words-Marty Robbins

Conversation With A Mule - Arthur Smith

Two Little Boys-Country Gentlemen

Ten Little Bottles-Johnny Bond

DamYankee Lad-Jimmie Driftwood

No guarantees that the list will be the same tomorrow!


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Jacob B
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 05:26 PM

For what it's worth, I once heard a brass band perform a piece called Song Of The Brother, which I understand to be a classic piece for brass band. It turned out to be a set of variations on When You And I Were Young Maggie, arranged for euphonium lead.


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Genie
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 11:22 AM

Is this song (or are any of its variants) still under copyright protection? If it was written in the 19th C., it doesn't seem like the original version could be. But the versions/arrangements published in the 1920s and later would be, I suppose.

A friend of mine says he researched it and that the song is not in the public domain yet. But I'd like to be clearer about which versions are and which are not.

Specifically, do any of you folks know which version(s) of the tune and lyrics ARE in public domain?

Genie


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Barry T
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 01:55 PM

Here's the Johnson / Butterfield version from the National Archives of Canada... When You And I Were Young, Maggie


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: GUEST,Tom Hamilton
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 11:51 PM

it's really a Candian song and not Europian song


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: GUEST,Tom Hamilton (Sydney Devine fan, sorry folks
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 11:54 PM

It's became a Scottish Folk song like Nobody's Child
Auld Syd Devine again he's resposiable for bringing the song to become a Scottish Folk song


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Subject: ADD: When You and I Were Young Maggie (1909)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 12:30 AM

The Digital Tradition has two verses and a chorus. This is the version from Heart Songs (1909), with three verses and no chorus. Can we find a date for the addtion of the chorus?
-Joe Offer-

WHEN YOU AND I WERE YOUNG, MAGGIE
(George W. Johnson and James Austin Butterfield)

I wandered to-day to the hill, Maggie,
To watch the scene below;
The creek and the creaking old mill, Maggie,
As we used to long ago.
The green grove is gone from the hill, Maggie,
Where first the daisies sprung;
The creaking old mill is still, Maggie,
Since you and I were young.

A city so silent and lone, Maggie,
Where the young and the gay and the best,
In polished white mansions of stone, Maggie,
Have each found a place of rest,
Is built where the birds used to play, Maggie,
And join in the songs that were sung;
For we sang as gay as they, Maggie,
When you and I were young.

They say I am feeble with age, Maggie,
My steps are less spritely than then
My face is a well written page, Maggie,
But time alone was the pen.
They say we are aged and gray, Maggie,
As sprays by the white breakers flung,
But to me you're as fair as you were, Maggie,
When you and I were young.


This chorus is often sung, but is not included in Heart Songs:

cho: And now we are aged and gray, Maggie,
And the trials of life nearly done;
But to me you're as fair as you were, Maggie,
When you and I were young.


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Subject: ADD: When You and I were Young Maggie (1866)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 01:07 AM

OK, here's a transcription of the sheet music from the Levy Sheet Music Collection. It does have a chorus, and it's dated 1866. The Book of World-Famous Music says the poem by George Washington Johnson was published in Canada in 1864. The poem was written to the poet's sweetheart, Maggie Clark, who died the following year. The song was published in the United States on May 19, 1866, with music by James Austin Butterfield. Publisher was the J.A. Butterfield Co., of Indianapolis. Note that the chorus is a bit different from what's shown above and in the Digital Tradition. The verses are exactly what's printed in Heart Songs.

WHEN YOU AND I WERE YOUNG, MAGGIE
(George W. Johnson and James Austin Butterfield)

I wandered to-day to the hill, Maggie,
To watch the scene below;
The creek and the creaking old mill, Maggie,
As we used to long ago.
The green grove is gone from the hill, Maggie,
Where first the daisies sprung;
The creaking old mill is still, Maggie,
Since you and I were young.
cho: And now we are aged and gray, Maggie,
And the trials of life nearly done;
Let us sing of the days that are gone, Maggie,
When you and I were young.
A city so silent and lone, Maggie,
Where the young and the gay and the best,
In polished white mansions of stone, Maggie,
Have each found a place of rest,
Is built where the birds used to play, Maggie,
And join in the songs that were sung;
For we sang as gay as they, Maggie,
When you and I were young.

They say I am feeble with age, Maggie,
My steps are less spritely than then
My face is a well written page, Maggie,
But time alone was the pen.
They say we are aged and gray, Maggie,
As sprays by the white breakers flung,
But to me you're as fair as you were, Maggie,
When you and I were young.


Note that almost all songs published in 1923 and earlier are in the public domain. The Sonny Bono Copyright Extension changed the schedule, and we'll all be dead before the 1924 songs come into public domain.

Click to play

(not that I like this MIDI arrangement)


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: masato sakurai
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 01:20 AM

When Johnson's poem (title: "WHEN YOU AND I WERE YOUNG") appeared first in his Maple Leaves in 1864, it was without chorus (Click here for the poem). The chorus, I think, was added when it was published as a song (Click here for the Chicago edition in 1866, published in the same year as the first Indianapolis edition).

~Masato


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Subject: ADD: Maggie's Answer
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 02:37 AM

I found the lyrics at this site: http://www.pdmusic.org/1800s/68ma.txt
So I didn't have to do the transcription. I compared it with the 1868 sheet music in the Levy Sheet Music Collection, and made a few corrections.

Inscribed to Miss Kittie J. Putnam
"Maggie's Answer" (1868)
A Response to
"When You and I Were Young"
Song and Chorus
Composed by
James Austin Butterfield (1837-1891)

1.
I know dearest Ralph you are aged and gray,
Your steps are now feeble and slow,
Your once noble form is now bent by the storm,
All must weather while waiting below,
The merry creek's bed you say now is dry,
And silent the creaking old mill.
But "songs without words" are still sung by the birds,
Tho' the green grove is gone from the hill.

CHORUS
Yet Ralph, dearest Ralph, with our hearts strong and true,
Still faithful and trusting and fond;
We'll sing the same songs we sang in days gone,
Till were (sic) called to the bright world beyond.

2.
'Tis true dearest Ralph in that city of stone,
Lie many dear friends that we love,
The casket once fair, is now moldering there,
But the jewel is soaring above,
The young and the gay and the best are all there.
Our own darling's gone with the rest,
It cannot be long e'er we to join the throng,
Moving on to the land of the blest.

(CHORUS)

3.
Although dearest Ralph we are feeble and old,
Still our love time nor age cannot change,
Thro' the journey of life 'mid the toil and the strife,
Naught between us e'er came to estrange,
We feel that this earth life is fading away,
But we know there's a better to come
In that bright world above in its sunlight of love,
Then again you and I will be young.

(CHORUS)

Note: the second word in the last line of the chorus is probably supposed to be we're - but I transcribed exactly what was printed.

Click to play


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: masato sakurai
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 05:04 AM

"When you and I were young, Maggie" sung by Henry Burr (1916, 1918) and Charles Harrison (1920) can be heard at The Virtual Gramophone (Click here). The version by The Original Dixieland Jazz Band (1946) is HERE.
~Masato


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: masato sakurai
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 05:26 AM

From The Record Lady's All-Time Country Favorites [all are RealAudio files]:

'When You And I Were Young Maggie' - Hank Snow [instrumental] (Real Country Page 18)
'When You And I Were Young Maggie' - Slim Whitman (Real Country Page 27)
'When You And I Were Young Maggie/Redwing' - The Stanley Brothers [instrumental] (Real Country Archives Page 13)


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Subject: Origins: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Genie
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 03:22 PM

What about the version that contains the lines:

"They say we are both past our prime, Maggie,
As dated as songs that we sung,
But to me you're as fair ..."

When/where did that version originate?

Genie


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: GUEST,jaze
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 08:24 PM

Genie. I have that version on a Foster And Allen tape. I love the song but it seems there are so many variations but all with the same tune.


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Genie
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 11:04 PM

Yes, Jaze, there are many variations.   But, apparently, the song was published in the mid 19th C., and most variations are either mondegreens or just "from-memory" transcriptions of those lyrics.

What I'm wondering is which versions, if any, can be recorded and published without havintg to pay royalties. Since the song was published over 100 years ago, I'd imagine that most versions based direc tly on the original lyrics published in about 1866 are fair game. Am I right?

Genie


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 03 - 09:27 PM

This song was composed in the town Of Caledonia, Ontario Canada. I believe it was from around 1910.


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 12:09 AM

Guest, sorry, but you might read some of the earlier messages. The song was first printed as such in 1866, from a poem which was written earlier in 1864.

Hope that helps.


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 01:12 AM

Guest, if you would look at Maggie Clark's Homestead

It gives the whole story about Margaret Clark and George Washington Johnson.

I suspect you got your 1910 date from http://www.rienzihills.com/SING/whenyouandiwereyoungmaggie.htm


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 02:58 PM

When my mother was visiting my father at the Arthurdale resettlement project in West Virginia, back in the early 1930's, she learned a slightly different first verse:

Alternative first verse from Dahlov Ipcar

I wandered to-day to the hill, Maggie,
To gaze at the scene below;
The stream and the creaking old mill, Maggie,
As we used to long ago.
The green grove is gone from the hill, Maggie,
Where first the daisies sprung;
The creaking old mill it is still, Maggie,
Since you and I were young.

We'll be using this song at a Remembrance gathering for father next summer.

Thanks for the information relating to this song.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Ferrara
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 08:03 PM

I tried to PM Susan Olin and got a message "No members were found."

There is another old song called "Maggie." It is British, it has a completely different theme and tune, and it doesn't include the idea of "When you and I were young." I think we have it on a MD recording "somewhere" and will look. I suspect Susan Olin gave up.

Susan if you read the thread will you PM me, I'll see if I can find the recording otherwise can give you the e-mail of the man who sang it.


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: SINSULL
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 10:16 PM

Sandy Paton does "Maggie" on one of the golden Ring CDs. I cry every time. Jed Marum does it to a waltz tempo - very pretty.


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Subject: RE: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Mark Ross
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 03:31 PM

Then there is the version from Butte, Montana. I learned it from Mrs. Hugo Kenck of Butte

I wandered today to the hill Maggie,
To get me a rustling card,
I got both the card and the job Maggie,
But the job it was too damned hard.

The tunnel was filled with gas Maggie,
And the stope it was fitchery as well,
The rock come'a tumbling down on me Maggie,
And the shifter was crazier than hell.

There once was a time in Butte, Maggie,
When you could take 5 and hold your job,
But now it's put the rock in the box Maggie,
And then put the waste in the gob.

Oh, my brown hair is turning to green Maggie,
From the water that seeps from the back,
I'm the homeliest mug in the town Maggie,
And you'll soon want your maiden name back.

Mark Ross


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: GUEST,jendiburn85
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 04:30 PM

My grandma use to sing a version of this song, but all I can remember of it is walking by the old rusty saw mill and over the hills Maggie. Is this the same song? Or is it a different one that I'm looking for? I've been trying to get the words to the song my grandma sang ever since she died about 6 years ago, but the lyrics to the song on this site don't seem to match the song my grandma sang. Can anybody help me? PLEASE?
desperately searching for grandma's song
jendiburn85@yahoo.com


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 04:40 PM

Your grandmother, or the singer she learned it from, may have had his/her own or a local version.
In the original song by Johnson and Butterfield, the line is:
"The creek and the creaking old mill, Maggie,"

Like many 19th c. popular songs, variants developed.


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 05:06 PM

Where did the "old rusty" mill in the DT come from?


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 05:25 PM

My mother who is 86 has fond memories of learning this song in West Virginia in the 1930's. We're planning to sing her version at my father's memorial service this summer. It runs like this:

Lyrics by George W. Johnson and music by James Austin Butterfield, © 1866
Dahlov Ipcar version 3/18/2004

When You and I were Young, Maggie


I wandered today to the hill, Maggie,
To gaze at the scene below;
The stream and the creaking old mill, Maggie,
As we used to long ago;
The green grove is gone from the hill, Maggie,
Where first the daisies sprung;
The creaking old mill it is still, Maggie,
Since you and I were young.

Chorus:

Since you and I were young, Maggie,
Since you and I were young;
The creaking old mill it is still, Maggie,
Since you and I were young.

And now we are aged and gray, Maggie,
My steps are less spritely than then;
My face is a well written page, Maggie,
But time alone was the pen;
And now we are aged and gray, Maggie,
As sprays by the white breakers flung,
But to me you're as fair as you were, Maggie,
When you and I were young.

Chorus:

When you and I were young, Maggie,
When you and I were young;
But to me you're as fair as you were, Maggie,
When you and I were young.

Charley Noble


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Subject: Lyr Add: NORA (Sean O'Casey)
From: erinmaidin
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 06:20 PM

The version I sing, attributed to Sean O'Casey is


NORA (from the play The Plough and the Stars, 1926)

The violets were scenting the woods, Nora
Displaying their charms to the bee
When I first said I loved only you, Nora
And you said you loved only me.

The chestnut blooms gleamed through the glade, Nora
A robin sang loud from a tree
When I first said I loved only you, Nora
And you said you loved only me.

The golden-robed daffodils shone, Nora
And danced in the breeze on the lea
When I first said I loved only you, Nora
And you said you loved only me.

The trees, birds and bees sang a song, Nora
Of happier transports to be
When I first said I loved only you, Nora
And you said you loved only me.

Our dreams they have never come true, Nora
Our hopes they were never to be
When I first said I loved only you, Nora
And you said you loved only me.


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 07:43 PM

Erinmaiden, was a title attached to the Nora version?


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 08:34 PM

I think the O'Casey stage re-write has been dealt with in one of the other threads?


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 10:47 PM

Right, Malcolm. "Nora" posted by Snuffy 27 June 00 in thread 22724: Maggie etc.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE OLD RUSTIC BRIDGE BY THE MILL
From: Reiver 2
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 11:12 PM

When in Ireland in 2001 I bought a 4 Vol. set of small books titled, Folksongs & Ballads Popular in Ireland. Vol. 4 has a song I'm not at all familiar with called, "Old Rustic Bridge By the Mill. Curiously, the woman in the song is also named Maggie. The general theme of the song is very much the same as "When You and I Were Young", but the tune (as far as I can tell from the score... I've never heard it played) is quite different and so are the lyrics. Here they are:

THE OLD RUSTIC BRIDGE BY THE MILL
(J.P. Kelly)

1) I'm thinking tonight of the old rustic bridge
   That bends o'er the murmuring stream.
   'Twas there, Maggie dear, with our hearts full of cheer,
   We strayed 'neath the moon's gentle gleam.
   'Twas there I first met you. The light of your eyes
   Awoke in my heart a sweet thrill.
   Though now far away, still my thoughts fondly stray
   To the old rustic bridge by the mill.
   
Cho. Beneath it the stream gently rippled.
    Around it the birds loved to thrill (should be trill, I think)
    Though now far away, still my thoughts fondly stray
    To the old rustic bridge by the mill.

2) How often, dear Maggie, when years passed away,
   And we, plighted lovers became;
   We rambled the path to the bridge, day by day,
   The smiles of each other to claim.
   But one day we parted in pain and regret,
   Our vows then we could not fulfil;
   Oh, may we soon meet and our fond love repeat,
   On the old rustic bridge by the mill.

Chorus.

3) I keep in my mem'ry the love of the past,
   With me 'tis as bright as of old;
   For deep in my heart it was planted to last,
   In absence it never grows cold.
   I think of you darling, when lonely at night
   And when all is peaceful and still
   My heart wanders back in a dream of delight
   To the old rustic bridge by the mill.

Chorus.

A very brief note in the book says: "Recorded by Foster and Allen. Written by J.P. Kelly in 1930." Those names mean nothing to me... do they ring a bell with anyone? I doubt that the songs are related in any way, but it seems quite a coincidence to find another Maggie being mourned by an old lover, whose memories include a stream and a mill. I've heard a version of "When You and I Were Young" that refers to an "old rusty mill" as opposed to a "creaking old mill" and wonder if that might have developed from someone who confused the songs and turned "rustic bridge" into a "rusty mill." Pretty far-fetched, I suppose. Is anyone familiar with this "Rustic Bridge" song and know anything about it? Just curious.

Reiver 2


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Barry T
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 02:18 AM

The Old Rustic Bridge is a popular 4/4 march played on the pipes. I'd bet that few pipers know that there are lyrics to the tune... or that the bridge is located in Ireland. Here are the lyrics with midi as set for the pipes. This web author cites the melody as traditional and the lyrics by T.P. Keenan.

http://cityofoaks.home.netcom.com/tunes/OldRusticBridge.html

- - -


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: GUEST,Pete
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:03 AM

This thread is facsinating, I love the song, and I beleive foster and allen have recorded the song but it originates in Canada, the messages above are historically factual, all other versions are probably just "romantic" varients.


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: IanC
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 09:48 AM

The Old Rustic Bridge was, I think, adapted as a pipe tune from the song. It seems to have been composed in 1881 by J. P. Skelly. This site has an interesting article about songs on the theme of mills, including this on "The Old Rustic Bridge".

Skelly's Old Rustic Bridge by the Stream seem to have gone through many editions and the copyright issues were lodged for several different versions. Straight reprints - it had sold over 60,000 copies by 1884 - would not have needed to be resubmitted.

* Here's an early reprint, dated 1885.

* Here's a band version dated 1888 from "American Memory"

and

* Here's a version in the National Library of Australia, dated 1890-1899.

My family have sung it for most of the last century, in three generations from my grandmother. Though it's popular in Ireland, it was equally popular in England and it appears to have originally been written by an American composer.

:-)


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Big Jim from Jackson
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 05:58 PM

Just as an aside, when I first heard the "Nora" version of the song sung by Johnny McEvoy, I speculated that Johnny, being a good Irish boy, just couldn't bring himself to sing a love song to someone named Maggie (since that was the name of the British Prime Minister). I figured he had just changed the name. I see by the above comments that that's not true. It seemed a reasonable assumption at the time............   :-)


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: GUEST,Meaghan
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:11 PM

I grew up with my grandfather waltzing with me in the kitchen with this song. His nickname for me is Maggie. But it was a 'reformatted' version simply called "Maggie" by Foster and Allen. They present the song in a slower rhythm, omitting some versus.


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Mar 12 - 06:57 PM

So is there a consensus that we could use this tune with other words and not get bitten by the copyright police? mg


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Elmore
Date: 15 Mar 12 - 02:01 PM

Just got of bed. Half asleep.

Just got out of bed. Still half asleep. Looked at the top of this thread, and Sandy Paton's voice singing this song came into my head. I wasn't sure if he had recorded the song, or that I was imagining that he had. Thanks Sinsull for your entry in 2003.


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Mar 12 - 04:09 PM

Under Canadian copyright law the original version would now be in the public domain but it is always a curtsey to name the composers. Many times I have seen this song shown as traditional although it is not!


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: PHJim
Date: 15 Mar 12 - 09:57 PM

In the mid-sixties I worked in Hagersville, but came home to Dundas on the weekends where I grew up. As I passed through Mount Hope, now annexed by Hamilton, there was a blue and gold (Ontario residents will know what I mean) historical site marker with the words "When You And I Were Young Maggie" and an explanation of the song's origins. It was explained in the Hamilton Spectator that the home where The Johnsons lived and where the song was written was now a private home and the sign was removed at the request of the owners who were being bothered by people stopping to take pictures and explore the property.
I have a wife named Maggie and I play this as a clawhammer banjo piece. The last verse is my favourite. Please forgive me for reposting it:

They say I am feeble with age, Maggie,
My steps are less spritely than then
My face is a well written page, Maggie,
But time alone was the pen.
They say we are aged and grey, Maggie,
As spray by the white breakers flung,
But to me you are fair as you were, Maggie,
When you and I were young.

My favourite vocal version is Tom Rush's.


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Subject: RE: Origin: When You and I were Young Maggie
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 15 Mar 12 - 11:10 PM

I am wondering if the three grains of corn song, which preceeded this, might have been the pattern for it..there are very few songs I can think of that have that particular pattern..three grains of corn, this one and wait till the sun shines Nellie and wait till the clouds roll by Jenny.


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