BS: Bob Graham for president?

Subject: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: toadfrog
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 11:42 PM

The word seems to be that Senator Graham (Florida) will throw his hat in the ring. I've heard him portrayed as extremely able and experienced, and as having the practical experience and political courage to stand up to the the President on foreign policy. Which seems to me something much needed at this point. Also as being the strongest possible Democratic candidate. On the other hand, relatively old, not particularly sexy or "progressive." That's about all I know; does anyone know more than that?

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 11:49 PM

If he is a member of the Democratic or Republican party,he does not have my vote. Ha! That's about all I can say about that.
Peace. Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 12:33 AM

Well I don't know anything about him, but I will start paying attention. Almost any of them would be better than Lieberman or Hart. Here's a link to Graham's website: clickety.

As for my vote, it'll probably go to a Democrat as I think it will be critical to unite to defeat the shrub the next time around.

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: DougR
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 07:58 PM

Vote "Green" folks!

Seriously, there are so many Democrats running it will be interesting to see who kills off who in the primaries. If I were a Democrat, I'd probably support Leiberman or Kerry but since I'm not, I'll support George Bush!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 08:11 PM

Well, if Junior doesn't pull a rabbit out of the hat and the economy is still flat in two years, it will take more that a war ot two to save his butt. And if that is the scenero then even Phil (yawn) Graham could beat him. But so could Donald Duck.

I think the strongest Dem is Howard Dean, Vermont's governor. He can even draw a few Greenies which, of course, won't make my buddy Doug too happy.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 08:29 PM

Appears to me, from a quick look around his site, that Bob Graham's not substantially different from Bush with regard to foreign policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: NicoleC
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 09:14 PM

Graham is pretty wishy-washy. I don't think he has the oomph to get the voters out for him -- a successful candidate will have to actually have a message to get across, as the past few elections have shown us. Wishy-washy Democrats aren't worth the trip to the polls for most people.

Lieberman and Kerry are worse -- they're 98% Republican, and as the old adage goes, given the choice between a Republican and a Republican, the voters will pick the Republican every time.

Too bad Hart is such a dork and got involved in that little scandal. I don't agree with much of his politics, but the man is surprisingly smart and better informed about most issues than practically any other potential candidate out there. I don't think he's electable, but I'd love to see him debate some of the issues!

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 09:16 PM

Nicole:

Check out Howard Dean when you get a chance.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: Paul G.
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 09:26 PM

I'll be surprised if the senior Senator from my state decides to run in the end. His health is certainly a big question (he had a heart valve replacement just over a week ago). He's a solid, intelligent, well liked former Florida governor. At the moment, I'm supporting Joe Lieberman, though (sorry Kat)....

pg

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 09:37 PM

I think the Democratic ticket will be Leiberman/Clinton. I'm not saying I support such a ticket, but that's who I think will get the nomination.

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 09:41 PM

No, I couldn't vote for either of them, CarolC. Especially Leiberman. If that occurs my Nader vote will be the easier than ever.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 09:44 PM

I like his stance on education. Unfortunately, it appears to be the only thing in his platform that separates him from the Republican party. What we need is a candidate who understands Keynesian economics and realizes that a tax cut does nothing but boost the deficit.

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: Amos
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 09:50 PM

Offering a vote to George Bush is like offering a quarter to Atilla. The man is thick and computationally psychotic -- he has the soul of a drooling assassin, propped up by the slightly worn veneer of an ambitious but inept middle manager.

I'd vote for John McCain if he ran, I think. But I am afraid Bush's hijackery last time left me feeling like it would be a hollow gesture. Rue the day, but that's how it looked.

Maybe I should try and go out and buy a dozen judges instead -- it worked for him...
pay for seven, get the other 5 thrown in free of charge!! Boggain!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 10:10 PM

I'm not asking you to vote for them, Bobert ;-)

That's just a prediction I'm making about who I think will get the nomination. I may just have to vote Green this time, too.

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 10:33 PM

CarolC: I know that. Hey, if it comes down to Leiberman and Clinton, I think we Greens will do so well that financing and getting into the debates by '08 will be a shoe in. Now, we just got to get Ralph aside. I love the guy but he ain't got a lick of chirisama (sp).

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 10:36 PM

I think you're right Bobert. Nader has always been one of my heroes, but I just don't think he can pull it off. Got any interesting names for the Green party nomination?

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 11:08 PM

Wilma P. Mankiller comes to mind, but realistically she probably wouldn't stand a chance.

PaulG! Nice to see you! No apologies necessary. I was in CT under some of Lieberman's reign. I didn't think he was too bad until he got in..now he just seems too GOP. I really liked the guy he ousted, Sam Gejdensen...hmm, wonder what he'd doing these days. There was a good man!

I wish Hart had a chance, too, but there's no way. And, I think all Clintons should stay out of it, though I still wish we had Bill at the helm!

my 2 cents

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: toadfrog
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 11:27 PM

From what's on the web, Graham looks awfully conservative. To paraphrase Winston Churchill, I'm inclined to think I'd even vote for Beelzebub to get rid of W. But Lieberman is a bit much. A wimp and an incredible self-righteous hypocrite. I don't know very much about Kerry, but my understanding was, he is the most liberal democrat in the running. An I missing something? Or are people confusing him with Kerrey, who is a different guy.

I find it hard to distinguish Ralph Nader from George W. Bush. After all, Nader got him elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: NicoleC
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 12:11 AM

One might hope for Barbara Lee to run on the Green ticket, but she's an avowed Democrat... though she scarsely agrees with the rest of 'em. Unlike Nader, Lee has solid Congressional experience and quite a bit of charisma in a "take me or leave me" sort of way.

Ironically, I think that a far left black woman just might be the candidate to take on Bush in 2004. She'd get most of the Green votes easily and the traditional Democratic voting base would turn out in *droves.* A Dem candidate that fights with Bush over the middle and swing voters is unlikely to win against a candidate that the die hard Republicans will turn out for.

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: Paul G.
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 06:58 PM

Wilma P. Mankiller....helluva name at any rate ;-) Good to see you too, Kat!

...and toadfrog, how about slinging a few facts in among the name calling...

Praying for rationality, intelligence, and peace,

Paul

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 07:29 PM

It's Bob Kerrey, and I just don't know yet what I will do.

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 07:59 PM

Here's the website for John Kerry

I couldn't find a current web site for Bob Kerrey, other than the one for the New School University where he is now the president apparently.

Here's his biography page from when he was a senator.

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: toadfrog
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 08:21 PM

I sort of doubt Doug R. would vote for John Kerry, even if he were a Democrat. And apparently he isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: DougR
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 01:36 AM

Nope, Toad, you are right. I am not a Democrat, and I would't vote for John Kerry.

I think Bobert and Carol C should begin a campaign to encourage all Mudcatters to vote Green, myself.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 12:44 PM

I'm not going to encourage anyone to do anything, DougR. I think I'll let everyone just follow their own conscience. Have you ever considered doing that yourself? It's actually quite liberating.

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: Tweed
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 04:32 PM

Bob Graham's a good guy, hard worker and is still well respected down here. He used to go out and shovel sh*t, flip burgers, sweep floors etc. one day a month (mebbe a week, I forget now)to stay in touch with the working people. Only flaw is he ain't too handsome and he's a compulsive note taker. He's got my vote if he runs.

Tweed

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: DougR
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 10:41 PM

Gee whiz, Carol C, you seem bound and determined to pick a fight with me. I like you! Why don't you like me?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bob Graham for president?
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 11:15 PM

I don't dislike you DougR. But I do find that interacting with you is a lot more fun when you discuss issues rather than your assumptions about what liberals or other Mudcatters think, or about their inclinations or proclivities, or when I read the asides you make to other conservatives about those things. That kind of thing just seems a little smarmy to me.

As for your practice of trying to undermine the Democratic candidate for president by encouraging people to vote Green... if you want to do that, it's your business. But I don't want to be a part of it. That's all. No dislike of you involved.