Folklore: Where is Dixie

Subject: BS: Where is Dixie
From: bill\sables
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 04:09 PM

I find in the titles of many songs the word Dixie, I understand this to be a region in the Southern USA which starts below the "Mason Dixon Line" It would I think include Verginia, the Caroliners, and Georgia but does it include Florida, Mississippi, Lousiana, and Alabama and does it stretch as far as Texas. Also was the Mason Dixon Line a railroad and where did it start and end.
Cheers Bill

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 04:20 PM

There is what seems to be a pretty good explanation of how it came to be, Bill, at this site. I am sure some of our Southerners will come in and give us more info. Great questions!

BTW, an aside: I just received a typewritten book, by my great-uncle, about Leadville, CO! He was a dean of engineering at three universities at various times, so it is written in a somewhat scholarly way, but not dry. Very informative and he quotes from diaries of well-known earlier miners, etc. plus lots of details about the lawlessness, saloons, etc. It is not for publication, just fmaily use, BUT if you are interested give me a holler, okay, you're practically adopted anyway.*bg*

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 04:34 PM

No, the Mason-Dixon (or Mason and Dixon) line is not a railroad. It is a generally east-west survey line established by Messrs. Mason and Dixon in the early days of the republic. I don't recall the exact purpose or meaning of the line, but everything below (south of) the Mason-Dixon line is "the South", or Dixie.

Dave Oestgerreich

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: bill\sables
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 04:36 PM

Kat I would love to see that book incase there is any info on my great uncle Richard Sables who shot the fiddler in a saloon brawl in Leadville. It must have seemed a good idea at the time and it often occurs to me wether to repeat history with melodeon or bodrhan players
Cheers Bill

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 04:38 PM

From Google "mason dixon line":

"By the way, the most likely source of "Dixie" comes from the use of the French money "dix" which was used along the southern Mississippi. I always wondered, if a southerner was from Dixie (Dixon) would not a northerner be from Masey (Mason)?" enquote

In another thread the question was posed as to the origin of 'Dixie'. I didn't pursue the thread further and no longer remember which thread it was, so the question may well have been answered. Maybe more credibly than the above reference.

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: bill\sables
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 04:42 PM

Thanks Dave I just read in Kat's link the dispute between Calvert and Penn which was the reason for surveyors Mason and Dixon to visit America to establish whose land was whose. But the question still stands where exactly is Dixiland?
Cheers Bill

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 04:42 PM

Mason & Dixon were a couple of surveyors. I listened to a docudrama of their exploits on radio 4, a while back, interesting stuff. Well worth looking up.......Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 04:48 PM

he's playing out with the band in St. Helens

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 04:58 PM

Bill, if you go back to Kat's link,scroll down, there is a map which shows the exact line. There were no western boundries, but eventually the entire South, including Texas came to be called Dixie.

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 04:58 PM

Mr. Happy, do you live near Scappoose?

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 05:03 PM

The origin of the term "Dixie" is in dispute. It first appeared in print in the Daniel Emmett song, "Dixie's Land."
For the arguments, see thread 54140: Dixie

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 06:01 PM

Bill, PM me your mailing addy and I'll get a copy made in the next month and send it over; it's over 200 pages, typewritten on regular 8 X 11 paper, just loose. He doesn't go into great detail about any one person except those who were fairly prominent, not even mentioning his own family, BUT he has some great info in there about the early rough and tough days and how lawless it was, etc. I think you'd probably enjoy it just as a glimpse of what your ancestor would have encountered.

FWIW, I think these days we need to be a bit kindler and gentler with those other musicians.**BG** Hell, I didn't remember it was a fiddler he shot!

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: wildlone
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 06:45 PM

Kat,
have you thought of sending a copy to any of the archive sites on the web such as http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/mdbquery.html

cheers dave

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 07:07 PM

Tell ya' this Bill, the real thing to remember as you head south and cross the Mason-Dixon Line is the time factor. You have to set your watch back about 30 years................

Spaw--running like hell and ducking....Serpentine! Serpentine! Get back mary, khandu, Banj....Get back........ouch..hey!......no stop it........YOWW........cut it out!...

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: John Hindsill
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 07:36 PM

Dixie is in her cups...can't take her anywhere. HeeHee

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 08:07 PM

Ohhhhhh, the temptation for various puns.....

Spaw, it's hard enough living downwind of you, don't make me come up there!

Actually Bill, I joke a lot about being Southern, mainly because most of my ancestors were Southern, and I lived in Texas and Alabama - but Kentucky is not really considered truly Southern. There's the North, the South, and then there's Kentucky. Florida is less Southern than Kentucky, made up mostly of Yankees who moved there. Oh, the temptation for more jokes...

Back to Dixie - it's a state of mind as much as anything else. Spaw, do you remember the slogan of The Atlanta Constitution (newspaper) - "Covers Dixie like the dew"


Ebbie, I think we got into several discussions in one of the Joan Baez threads (The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down.)

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 08:50 PM

LOL Mary....Your post reminds me of one of those late night bull sessions when I first went to Berea. We were talking about "truly southern" and the group was pretty mixed with guys from all over the south (and this damnyankee). Anyway, somewhere along the line one of them said "What about Kentucky?" Peabody, in a beautiful south Virginian drawl (Big Stone Gap) took a drag on his cigarette and philosophically stated...."Borderline case..."

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 09:59 PM

I was accepted in Alabama because I could turn on the "red neck talk." But South Carolina is where I really stood out as a "foreigner."

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: mack/misophist
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 10:21 PM

Since no one has answered yet, allow me to say that 'Dixie' is a generic term for the South. Tradition says the Southland starts in Maryland at the Mason-Dixon Line. The western borders can sometimes be a little vague, depending on the sympathies of the speaker.

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: jimmyt
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 10:30 PM

I have lived in Georgia for 20 years, I suspect before I die I may become "Southern" but there is no assurance. Consider dixie to include fully, Virginia, Tennessee, North and South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama. Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas and Texas. Such states as Missouri, Kentucky and Oklahoma are considered border states, and Florida, I believe, is a piece of Cuba that broke off and floated north Ducks and runs for cover!

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From:
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 10:50 PM

Just returned from a business trip that took me through some great parts of the South. Drove from Cleveland OH to New Orleans, via Interstates 71, 65, 40 and 55. That's Cleve to Louisville to Nashville to Memphis to New Orleans.

Drove the same route back, except I picked up Highway 61 just north of Baton Rouge, and drove it all the way in to Memphis. Parts of MS along Highway 61 appeared very 3rd world-ish to me. Sad but fascinating.

Contrary to some of the above posts, I thought I was in the South, in Dixieland, on the second day of the trip, while in Elizabethtown KY. The female server (can't call them waitresses no more?) called me darlin'. I knew I was in Dixie. I was called darlin', honey, and sugar for 8 solid days, and I absolutely love it.

That may seem silly, or chauvinistic, but that's the South to me. The relaxed attitude and the outward friendliness. Not to mention the great food, scenery, music and history.

There's probably a formal Dixie, but the Dixie in my mind is mostly the Confederacy, with some of my own changes.

KY was indeed a border state, and did not secede. Neither did MD and DE, both slave states. MO was another border state. The M-D Line, by the way, runs between PA and MD.

The Rebs were: VA, NC, SC, GA, FL, TN, AL, MS, LA, AR, and TX.

In my Dixie, I'd drop AR and TX and add KY and MO. No rational reason, other than I've spent considerable time in both, and they appeared extremely Southern to me.

Thanks for allowing my 2 cents.

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: jimmyt
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 10:56 PM

Rebs is a term I would use very discretly in the south, Wm JAmes. Here in Georgia, the term Civil War is called the War of the Yankee aggression!

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: Frankham
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 11:31 PM

Or the "War Between The States" because the United States was never fully accepted. "Southern Heritage" is one of those mythical ideas that is like putting on a costume and parading around to become something important. It is often a euphemism for accepting racial predjudice. (Slavery was a big part of the so-called "Southern Heritage").

The Saint Andrews Cross or the Battleflag of the Conferacy was adopted in the 1950s by George Wallace as a symbol of "status quo". It is on many of the Southern state flags and has the same meaning for black people as the swastika for Jewish people.

Dixie for all it's bucolic romance is a myth and not a reality. The real folklore is the lives of hard-working, hard-scrabble people who were victims of injustice both black and white. Rich plantation owners were exploitive in the way that early robber barons operated railroads, sweat shops and other businesses at the expense of working people.

There is a Southern culture, however and it's not all hospitable but it's real in that you can find it through songs and stories. But the idealized South of some folks is mostly a cloak for bigotry. But the real Southerners have a great story to tell about hard times, dancin' music, old time ballads and stories, play party tunes and deeply felt religious views.

Dan Emmett did not want his song to be used as a national anthem for the successionist Southern politics.

Gone With The Wind was a total fabrication by Hollywood.

But the real South is not Dixie as myth but it's not really that much different than the rest of the country.

I know because I live there.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 12:27 AM

Dixie is where, when you order breakfast at a diner..(not at a 'restaurant')...you get grits added automatically.

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: toadfrog
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 01:01 AM

There is an excellent discussion of this topic in Joel Garreau, The Nine Nations of America, a popular but very perceptive book that came out in 1981. Garreau would include East Texas, part of Oklahoma, part of Missouri, Kentucky, Southern Illinois (around Cairo), half of Indiana, Cincinatti, West Virginia (except maybe the part around Wheeling), Eastern Maryland and southern Delaware. (Western Maryland is south of the Mason-Dixon Line. It is also Barbara Frietzche [SP?]country). He argues that it does not include South Florida. I've lived in Ozark Missouri and Western Kentucky. No doubt in my mind they are in Dixie. But Kansas City, MO, is definitely not Dixie!!!

Garreau remarks that "Perhaps what most folk realize is that Dixie's boundaries are defined more by emotion than any other nation." He observes that the area is extremely heterogeneous. And from observation, Mary in Kentucky is absolutely right. They don't all talk the same; The Eastern Tidewater, South Carolina, and Mississippi sound almost like Englishmen to me. The country-music twang is something entirely different than said aristocratical drawl.

The book is still stimulating today.

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 02:39 AM

Interesting answer Frank. I too spent twenty years living in the south and would tell other yankees that you had to pass through several stages if you were to be successful in working and living there:

1) Open your eyes and realize that it's a different place. It is not like the north and it doesn't want to be.

2) Get over the idea that whatever you were doing up north was right and realize that things aren't the same here. Forget what you knew.

3) Quit thinking, even for a second, that you can somehow change things to your way of thinking.

4) NOW, sit back and think hard on this----Can I live and work this way? Do I want to?

5) If so, you will now have a lot better time and a lot fewer headaches. Don't try to BE a southerner, just a transplanted damnyankee and admit it. If not, get the hell out and take your ass back to wherever it was you came from and don't make life hard on the rest of us damnyankees who are having a great time...except when we have to explain the likes of YOU!

BTW Frank........I didn't think you lived in the south. Do you? I mean like I thought you lived in Atlanta.......(;<))

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: Banjer
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 05:15 AM

Tell ya' this Bill, the real thing to remember as you head south and cross the Mason-Dixon Line is the time factor. You have to set your watch back about 30 years................

Spoken like a true jealous Yankee!!!***BG***

....don't make life hard on the rest of us damnyankees who are having a great time...

A Yankee is one who comes to visit and then goes home, a damnyankee is one who comes to visit and stays, and in many cases, like Frank bitches about how, better, cheaper, faster, cleaner, or _______(insert other description) the North was, and then wonders why he gets told at least once a week how he ought to go back where he came from!

The Saint Andrews Cross or the Battleflag of the Conferacy....(from Frankham's post)

Another piece of Yankee misinformation. A common mistake with the damyankees!

The Confederate Naval Ensign is traditionaly a 3x5 flag, the Battle Flag is square, it's size determined by the branch using it. Artillery, Cavalry and Infantry all used different dimensioned flags. The true Battle Flag also has a white border. The point here being that while St Andrews Cross is the basis for both flags there is a vast difference in their significance. It's folks like Frank that make me want to hoist my 3X3 Battle Flag up my flagpost!

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 05:37 AM

Gosh this is fun! We have the same sort of arguments over here in Scotland about the number of English incomers, known locally as "White Settlers". The price of property in rurasl areas of the highlands is so low compared to the south-east of England. So some of these English folks come up here having sold a hovel down south, and bought a mansion up here, and then bitch about the lack of services. In this case getting away from it all, entails leaving behind some of the good things, as well as most of the bad. These folks can't see why they can't have a mail delivery at 7:30 am every day like they used to, and can't figure out for themselves why Harrods don't deliver. Some though join in and become part of the scenery, and are welcomed, but as Spaw said, them as don't/won't fit in, should get their arses back down south.
Failte.....Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 10:16 AM

Mason-Dixon: I'm surprised no-one has quoted the recent hit record about these two "Sailing to Philidelphia" in this thread

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: belfast
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 10:33 AM

And I'm surprised that no one has quoted the lyrics of the great Tom Lehrer on the subject . . .

I wanna go back to Dixie,
Take me back to dear ol' Dixie,
That's the only li'l ol' place for li'l ol' me.
Old times there are not forgotten,
Whuppin' slaves and sellin' cotton,
And waitin' for the Robert E. Lee.
(It was never there on time.)

I'll go back to the Swanee,
Where pellagra makes you scrawny,
And the honeysuckle clutters up the vine.
I really am a-fixin'
To go home and start a-mixin'
Down below that Mason-Dixon line.

Oh, poll tax,
How I love ya, how I love ya,
My dear ol' poll tax.

Won'tcha come with me to Alabammy,
Back to the arms of my dear ol' Mammy,
Her cookin's lousy and her hands are clammy,
But what the hell, it's home.

Yes, for paradise the Southland is my nominee.
Jes' give me a ham hock and a grit of hominy.

I wanna go back to Dixie,
I wanna be a Dixie pixie
And eat corn pone till it's comin' outta my ears.
I wanna talk with Southern gentlemen
And put that white sheet on again,
I ain't seen one good lynchin' in years.

The land of the boll weevil,
Where the laws are medieval,
Is callin' me to come and nevermore roam.
I wanna go back to the Southland,
That "y'all" and "shet-ma-mouth" land,
Be it ever so decadent,
There's no place like home.

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 11:17 AM

Thread Sailing to Philadelphia

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Where is Dixie
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 12:16 PM

Bill, I'm living in the South now, Columbus GA is pretty much as southern as it gets. As a Canadian, my perspective on the differences between The North and The South is probably a little different. Folks here don't usually call it "Dixie" they call it "The South", but I think, for your purposes, the terms are interchangable. I've had this conversation with people all over "The South", I've spent time in every "southern" state but Arkansas. Everyone I've talked to shares pretty much the same definition. To people who live here, "The South" is KY, TN, VA(but not suburban DC) NC, SC, GA, AL, MS, LA and northern Florida, down to somewhere around Gainsville. (Some include AK, Some don't). Texas, is Southern, but not part of the South. Texas is Texas. MO, is considered to be more midwestern than southern and though I've only been to Kansas City, from what I've seen, I'd have to agree. Cincinnati has suburbs in Northern Kentucky and people from other parts of Ohio have told me that Cinci is a "Southern City". Having lived there for 5 months, I don't agree, but parts of southern Indianna are pretty southern.

It is different here, Folks are way more polite, Black folks and whites get along much better here than they did when I was living in Ohio (Cincinnati, Columbus) And though folks down here seem to get as much work done as people up North, They don't seem inclined to make the same show of "looking busy" that I've seen in the Northeast, New York and Southern Ontario.

They don't want to hear what is better about The North, people here don't think its good manners to gripe about their home. Atlanta is more outward looking and tries to be more cosmopolitan than most southern cities. But make no mistake. She's a "Southern" city.

Hope this helps.

Rob Dale
Georgia Newfie

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 12:31 PM

I beg to differ on Atlanta......lived there, Karen grew up there, and for the most part it is far more like Chicago than anywhere in the South. Anymore, the skyline even looks like Chicago! Yeah, there are still some roots there but they die a little more every day.

You're quite right though on Northern attitudes and the more clandestine bigotry that exists which is a lot tougher to fight!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: mack/misophist
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 12:45 PM

When the War Between the States broke out, the loyalties of 3 states were in doubt, sort of. Lincoln's advisors were sure Maryland wanted to secede. That was militarily unacceptable so troops were quickly moved in. Missouri could have gone either way, depending on which side controled the armory. The Yankees won out. Virginia was badly split between the aristocratic, slave-owning piedmont and the western hills, where people were lucky to own a mule. Virginia was split. Texas is often considered southwestern, rather than southern. In fact, the Texas Rangers enlisted in the Confederate Cavary en mass, Praxitales Swan was a noted cavalry general, and one of the last battles, Tres Palmas, was fought in Texas. I think Florida was an official member of the Confederacy. If so, it's contribution was minimal, being ravaged by cholera, yellow fever, and hookworm.

As mentioned earlier, 'Dixie' is a generic term. It's exact definition depends on the sympathies of the user.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 12:45 PM

I'm comparing Atlanta to other cities of similar size in which I have spent some time, Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Manhattan, Chicago, Cinci, Dallas, New Orleans. Atlanta does have a lot in common with Chicago, but I have been chaulking that up to the sheer size and the pressure of having to live in close proximity to 3-4 million people. She is certainly less southern than Smaller cities like Montgomery or Lake Charles LA. New Orleans is unique. Each of these cities have their own character. To me the trait that defines Atlanta in comparison to other large cities is her ties to The South.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: Frankham
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 01:02 PM

Hey Spaw,

Goin' on my twentieth year down here. Atlanta is not like Chicago because I've lived in both places. It's still very much it's own character. The skyline is not like Chicago even. As to your points:

"Interesting answer Frank. I too spent twenty years living in the south and would tell other yankees that you had to pass through several stages if you were to be successful in working and living there:

1) Open your eyes and realize that it's a different place. It is not like the north and it doesn't want to be.

When you get to know the people, you find out that they're not that much different.

2) Get over the idea that whatever you were doing up north was right and realize that things aren't the same here. Forget what you knew.

What I learned living in the East Coast, the West Coast and the South is applicable to wherever I go since I consider myself an American first. I agree with Pete Seeger who says "It's important to get along without having to go along".

3) Quit thinking, even for a second, that you can somehow change things to your way of thinking.

You can't do that with anyone, anyhow. But there is always the assumption on a part of some that this is what is trying to be done. Having strong convictions doesn't mean changing anyone else's mind. But having the courage to express them is a distinctly American trait.

4) NOW, sit back and think hard on this----Can I live and work this way? Do I want to?

I don't get it that all Southerners think alike. That's part of the "Dixie" mythology. There are some Southerners who actually supported, for example, the burning of Atlanta.

5) If so, you will now have a lot better time and a lot fewer headaches. Don't try to BE a southerner, just a transplanted damnyankee and admit it. If not, get the hell out and take your ass back to wherever it was you came from and don't make life hard on the rest of us damnyankees who are having a great time...except when we have to explain the likes of YOU!

Don't know if this is directed personally to me, Spaw, but you don't have to explain the likes of me ever. I can do that for myself.
I have never tried to be a Southerner and I'm not a transplanted anything.

BTW where do you live?

BTW Frank........I didn't think you lived in the south. Do you? I mean like I thought you lived in Atlanta.......(;<))

I live in the burbs of Atlanta, not quite in the city.In my time, I have gotten around. I traveled through the South just before the Civil Rights era and got to meet a lot of people from all walks of life.
As a musician, I've traveled a good bit of the country and talked to many people. Everywhere I went I have found people friendly and some less hospitable. I have found people operating under the delusion that what they believe makes them somehow special because they hold certain rules and principles. Others have more humility. I have found courage, love, bigotry, and hatred in every part of the country.

Also, I have found that the South is not as monolithic as some would have you believe. The old myth of "Dixie" is dying hard because of a few die-hards who think they represent everyone down here.

Frank

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 03:14 PM

Frank....it was a joke...the last part there about Atlanta.

As to the rest regarding getting along......I lived in Chattanooga, Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, and southern Kentucky. I was saying that stuff partially tongue in cheek, but the reality is that I watched a lot of northerners continually have problems, bitch, whine, and moan about the South. I loved it, got along well, and would move back to many of those towns and the areas surrounding them in a minute. I was speaking of the general attitude of the ones who did have problems and on several occasions voiced exactly what I said above. Probably the biggest thing I saw was the superior attitudes of northerners getting ANY northerner in trouble.

Had a great customer in Chattanooga. One day I bring in the Regional Manager who had one of those attitudes. At one point, Ivan turned to him and said, "Buddy, we may talk slow, but we don't think slow......Pat is welcome here anytime, but you need to get the hell out of my shop right now." My next stop in Ivan's place was to apologize for even bringing the asshole in, but it was a job requirement.

I don't need lectures either on the subject. Neither do you. No, it isn't the same everywhere and the differences between Chattanooga and Atlanta measure far more than the 100 miles between them! I wasn't directing anything at you except the very end and that was in jest. If you missed that...sorry.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: Banjer
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 07:09 PM

I think Florida was an official member of the Confederacy. If so, it's contribution was minimal,.....

Florida was indeed a Confederate state and was known as the breadbasket of the Confederacy. It was Florida cattle that supplied much of the food that kept Southern troops fed. Many of the skirmishes fought in Florida were raids by Northern Marine detachments landed from either the Atlantic or the Gulf of Mexico to try to break up the supply lines north. My reenacting unit will be taking part in the recreation of such a raid two weeks from now at Crystal River, FL, known as the Raid of Yulee Sugar Mill Plantation. There were countless such raids on both sides of the state, not many having been properly documented because of their small size. Also blockade running was a thriving occupation, bringing in much needed supplies from foreign ports to start their journey northward.

The capitol of Florida, Tallahassee and the capital of Texas, Austin, have the distinction of being the only two Confederate capitols never to fall into enemy hands.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: mack/misophist
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 10:26 PM

When Florida was admitted into the Union, the admission was almost repealed because an epidemic (cholera, I think) reduced the population below the necessary level. This kind of thing was a constant problem. That's why I said what I did.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: wilco
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 11:03 AM

It's unfortunate that there is such bias towards the southern US. I am amazed that people confuse good manners for ignaornace. Maybe they had manners thirty years ago in the North east USA. Very provincial thinking.

1 I've lived in the hills of East Tennessee all of my life, about
   ten miles from the border of Georgia and Alabama, and about an
   hour from North Carolina.
2. The accents are different, in just the distance of ten miles.
3. I spend a lot of time in New Haven (CT), home of Yale University,
   and the racial and religious strife is worse there.
4. Poverty, ignorance, and racial emnity are not endemnic to any
   geographic region. Taking "shots" at the south is as intolerant
   as previousr generations taking "shots" at the "Irish Problem," or
   the "Negro Problem," or the "Hispanic Problem."

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: bill\sables
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 11:12 AM

Well I didn't want to start a second American civil war between Catspaw and Frankham. You are both very proud of where you live which I can understand. I am a "Geordie" from the Newcastle area of England and we have a saying up there "There are two kinds of people in the world, Geordies and those who would like to be"
As you know I have travelled around the US (I think there are about 6 states I have not been to)I found, however, that Savanah was what I would call the most Southern town I visited in relation to song lyrics
there ware Magnolia trees and Spanish beard and the accent seemed to come right out of "Gone with the Wind". I also enjoyed very much my visit to New Orleans but that was probably due to our guide Mudcatter Kelly (Allan C's Daughter)She took us through Bourburn Street in the middle of the night, an experience I will always remember but not for anyone with a nervous disposition. The other main memory of the South was the many road kill Armidillo's lying on their backs with a beer bottle between their paws.
Anyway you seemed to have answered my origional question as to "Where was Dixie"
Thanks again
Cheers
Bill

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 01:33 PM

Just to drift back to the original question, Mason and Dixon surveyed the Maryland/Pennsylvania border, which became the Mason-Dixon Line. What most people don't realize is that Cape May County, NJ was below the line and was one of the places where slavery was a legal entity.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 01:42 PM

Amen Banjer

Blackcatter

Historian in Old Orlando, FL.

Subject: Dixie's land
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 10:51 AM

Hello from Germany!

We would love to play the march "dixie's land" with
our marching band. But we've got no opportunity to get
the music-notes, which important for sure. Have you got an idea, how to get it?

Yours sincerely



Klaus

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: GUEST,JOHN OF ELSIE`S BAND
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 11:53 AM

Since Dixie is under discussion here can anyone identify or shed any light on a snippet of the song below I knew as a child from a gramophone record in my grandmothers collection. It must date from the 1930`s-1940`s.
"When I see the smoke arising from that little old chimney pot
And mixing with the green leaves on the tree.
I guess I`ll start a-running and I know I`ll never stop
Till I fall down by that cabin on my knees

I`m going back, going back, oh happy days
I`m gonna see my Dinah and baby there
??-----??------??-------??------??
I`ll never leave Old Dixie Land again

"Yodelling Chorus"

All help gratefully recieved,
Ta, John

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 12:58 PM

Aside from it's geographic boundaries, Dixie is in the heart.
To most who feel that way it's not about racism or bigotry, it's about simpler times in the way that "Happy Days" was also about simpler times. There is always nostalgia for people to look back in trying times (like these) to yesteryear and forget that those times had trials and tribulations of their own.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 11:47 PM

Klaus in Germany. These copies of sheet music may help.

We Are Marching Down to Dixie's Land

The original "Dixie's Land" by Emmett, 1860, is in 2/4: I Wish I Was in Dixie's Land

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 11:52 PM

Sorry- the one that didn't work is the wrong song, and 3/4 in spite of the title.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 01:28 PM

Whoops,

Forgot to add that I've spent three years in what most would consider the "armpit" of the south. Yeah, there's swamp all over the place with some pretty nasty critters running around wild right in town (if you'd like to call it that).

Nowhere else in these United States have I found such loving and kind folks. If there's something wrong with Dixie (that ain't wrong in the rest of the world)I guess i've just plain missed it while enjoying fresh home made pepper jelly, fig preserves, apple jelly, and about the most huggin, squeezin, caring women, and the most friendly, accepting, and open men. I guess I'd rather be wrong in Dixie than right in the rest of the world. (Hey, there's a song there!)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 02:41 PM

Swamps can be fun. As student ecologists, we waded in them at night with lights catching tree frogs to see the types that were there- grab for the eyes! Moccasins' eyes also shine, but the distance between the eyes is greater.
The instructor in charge had a badly crippled hand- he had made a mistake twice.
Clothes once worn wading in sulfurous swamp mud can never be worn in polite society.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: GUEST, Californian
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 02:48 PM

Is Miami part of Dixieland? I got robbed and beaten there.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 02:51 PM

Part of Cuba. (Running for cover).

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 12:55 PM

You have to know the difference in the glow.
I was told that frogs glow red and look like headlights.
Snakes glow gold but since they are offst look different than frogs or gators.
Gators eyes glow gold and look like half marbles.

What I meant by swamp all around is that you kind of feel like you're going to sink into the turf. Nothing like a good, solid, bed-rock feel (like in the piedmonts)under your feet here. The only other drawback is that the jungle will take over if given the chance and it doesn't take too much time to do it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 04:09 AM

BTW For a fun summer read pick up a used copy of Thomas Pynchon's Mason & Dixon (even CherryCoke shows up in this one again.)

The book is full of songs, i.e.

Well Sailor ahoy,
Put down that Harpoon,
You're a fortunate Boy,
For ye've beach'd on The Moon,
ASnd we Moon Maidens hope,
We shall know ye quite soon,
'Tis the end of our Rope,
We need Men, in The Moon.
[refrain]
Ah, Men in the Moon,
A miraculous Boon,
Midnight and Noon, we need
Men in The Moon

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: EBarnacle
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 08:04 AM

As a way back when coin and currency dealer [not any more, but it paid for my first year of college] the "Dix note" long preceded the song. I believe it actually had the word "Dix" under a large Roman numeral "X." The story I heard was that Dixie was anywhere the notes circulated. These notes were from the era of local and private banks and, from my recall, were exceptional in that they were generally honored and not defaulted. The circulation of these fly by night banks led to the establishment of a national currency and to Jackson's effort to create a cenrtalized federal banking system.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: EBarnacle
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 08:08 AM

Warning: Thread drift. When the transit of Venus was coming up, there was mention that Mason and Dixon were on their way to observe it one in their era when their ship was captured by a French man of war.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where is Dixie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 08:44 AM

The "Dix" note was circulated in Louisiana by Citizens Bank and Trust Co., and was valid there for several years. Can't remember the exact dates. The note never was in general circulation in the South, and the derivation of "Dixie's Land" from the currency is not generally accepted.