Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Strafgod
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 01:53 PM

I stand corrected on the authorship of Come Away Melinda, (but it is Melinda, not Matilda). Thanks Frankham.

Thanks Stewie and Catspaw for reminding me of Jimmy Clay - hadn't heard the song in decades reading the lyrics, was, like a Proustian moment.

Story of Isaac! Thanks again Stewie.

You who build these altars now
to sacrifice these children,
you must not do it anymore.
A scheme is not a vision
and you never have been tempted
by a demon or a god.

Universal Soldier.

Gulf War Song by Moxy Fruvous.

Strafgod <--loving this thread

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,jaze
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 02:24 PM

"All we are saying, is give peace a chance." Simple,mournful and to the point.

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 03:47 PM

"Side of a hill" Paul Simon
"The Kerry Recruit" Traditional
"Stand Firm"   Leon Rosselson
Can't remember the name,it starts.
"As down the glen one Easter morn."
Can I also throw in a poem. "The naming of parts"
Giok

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: limejuice
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 03:49 PM

A more lighthearted anti-war song is the "feel like I'm fixing to die rag"... not claiming it's the best, but it's sure fun to sing!

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: The Pooka
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 07:34 PM

Giok - "As down the glen one Easter morn" sounds to me like the 1916, Easter Rising, edition of "The Foggy Dew". If so (?) - then perhaps not so much generically anti-war, as anti-the-*wrong*-war(s).


It was England bade our Wild Geese go
That small nations might be free
Now their lonely graves are by Suvla's wave
Or the fringe of the great north sea.
But had they died by Pearse's side
Or fought with Valera true
Their graves we'd keep where the Fenians sleep
'Neath the hills of the foggy dew.

(Or - have I got the wrong song/version?)

On a different note -- they are characteristic black-humor Tom Lehrer satire, but *I* think they still fit the category; so I nominate "We Will All Go Together When We Go" and "So Long Mom". (Hope I got the titles right.)

Subject: Lyr Add: MARIA DIAZ (Lenny Galant)
From: Stewie
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 07:34 PM

This one doesn't appear to be in the DT or forum:

MARIA DIAZ
(Lenny Galant)

Maria Diaz is only nine
Yet she's seen enough hard times
To last a hundred lifetimes, maybe more
Seen children die so young, peasants fall beneath the gun
Heard a nation cry for justice in a war

Somoza's guards did come one day
Took her father far away
He was put into a truck with many more
No reason did they give as to why he should not live
He's just another peasant in a war

Maria cries to sleep at night
She says she dreams in black and white
Her mother says that coloured dreams will be no more
'til there's freedom in the land, tyrants are forever banned
And they let us build a nation without war

Late one night a gun did sound
There were Contras all around
And they searched the village houses for their prey
Maria's mother did protest, she felt the shot run through her breast
Maria stared in horror where her mother lay

In magazines and on the air
They all talk of war down there
Who the yanks support and who the reds are for
But was she left or was she right when her mother died that night
Or was she just another orphan in a war

Don't look for God up in the skies
You can't see God with closed eyes
They must open to the wounds that lie below
And see the children have a chance
A chance to live, a chance to dance
A chance to dream in colours bright with freedom's glow

Source: Roy Bailey 'Leaves From a Tree' Fuse CF 394. 'Maria Diaz' has been reissued on CD on Roy Bailey 'Past Masters' Fuse CFCD 403.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Scotty B
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 07:54 PM

I certainly agree Eric Bogle probably has first place with his many songs but a couple not yet mentioned are

The Island by Paul Brady and The Town I Lovewd so Wel by Phil Coulter

Scotty

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: breezy
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 09:15 PM

the Drum is credited on M-W-R's album which I'll look out tomorw.
I dont think its that widely known.
btw its 'hames' to do with attaching the horse to the cart not paint
soory but they are 'carved pieces of wood by which the traces of a horse are attached to the collar'
Thank you for posting the words.
Good to see Jimmy Newman there, I was smitten by Denvers interpretation.
Erics 2 are classics but to my mind it was June Tabor's uncluttered singing of them as on her 'Anthology ' album that didit for me.
Mike Deavin has 2 creditable songs' The Soldier's story' and 'Blood on the Sand' but you wont find him easily.
Then the one that starts:
'If you see a soldier covered all in medals' with a chorus that goes
'How about you folks out there you people looking on
Are you heroes are you cowards would you say?
If they stuck a rifle in your hand and sent you to the war
Would you be brave or would you run the other way?'
Brad Bradstock stopped the show with this one at out folk club and he's back in April
Then ther 'When the boys are on Parade' by Marcus turner and sung by Andy Irvine on 'Way out Yonder' hes at the club on 11th april after Brad
St Albans Herts., Eng

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Jazzyjack
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 09:26 PM

What ? ? Not even a mention of Phil Ochs' most popular anti-Vietnam war songs " I Ain't Marching Anymore " and " Is There Anybody Here ? " ? . I am singing them tomorrow at a peace rally in Nanaimo B.C. Canada. Who remembers the lyrics or should I supply them. For shame ! !

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: sharyn
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 09:53 PM

Two more just skipped into my head and then skipped out again while I was reading the new posts to this thread. If they pop in again, I'll post them. Oh, one is Bob Coltman's "Valley Forge":

To live I'm too cold,
To die I'm too young.
This life is too short
To be over and done.
Is this the last winter
That I'll ever see?
I don't care for no God
Who don't care for me.

So don't you think we should beat the drum
Or raise some kind of row?
Ain't this glorious war
Fell on hard times now?

And the other is a John Gorka song called "Temporary Road":

He is skating on a river
That's been frozen since December:
He's a soldier on a river off to war

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: sharyn
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 09:56 PM

Hey, y'all, this is a bit of thread-creep, but what if we put together a cd of Mudcats or others singing these songs and donated any proceeds to a peacemaking cause? Remember, you heard it from me, here. Amos? Joe?

Subject: Lyr Add: GENTLEMEN OF DISTINCTION IN THE ARMY
From: Susan A-R
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 10:12 PM

I have had the Malvina Reynolds song Gentlemen of Distinction in the Army
in my mind a lot lately

I had a lovely dream I saw a big parade with ticker tape galore
And men were marching there the likes I'd never seen before
Oh the bankers and the diplomats are going in the army
Oh happy day I'd give my pay to see them on parade
With their paunches at attention and their striped pants at ease
They've gotten patriotic and they're going over seas
We'll have to do the best we can and bravely carry on
So we'll just keep the laddies here to mannage while they're gone

Chorus Oh we hate to see them go the gentlemen of distinction in the army

Oh the bankers and the diplomats are going in the army
It seems a shame to keep them from the wars they love to plan
We're really quite contented that they'll fight a dandy war
They don't need propaganda, they know what we're fighting for
They'll march along with dignity and in the best of form
And we'll just keep the laddies here to keep the lassies warm

Chorus

Oh the bankers and the diplomats are going in the army
We'll have to do things differently, it's all so new and strange
We'll give them silver shovels when they have to dig a hole
And they can sing in harmony when answering the roll
They'll eat their old k rations from a hand embroidered box
And when they die, we'll bring 'em home and burry 'em in fort Knox

Chorus

I wonder why I've had that one running through my head so much lately.

Subject: Lyr Add: CRUEL WAR (from Peter, Paul & Mary)
From: Kaleea
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 01:09 AM

Since I'm half Irish (other half blarney), I usually turn to the Irish ballads in times of anti war songs.
I've always liked the simplicity of John Lennon's 2 chord song. Once the Smothers Brothers were talking about being up on the balcony with John leading the crowd in this song, and Tommy was doing all kinds of creative versions of a D chord, and John mildly chastised him saying just play a regular D chord, man, this is about something very basic & simple:

All we are saying, is "give peace a chance." etc.


Here's one sung by Peter, Paul & Mary:

CRUEL WAR

The Cruel War is raging, Johnny has to fight
I want to be with him from morning to night.
I want to be with him, it grieves my heart so,
Won't you let me go with you?
No, my love, no.

Tomorrow is Sunday, Monday is the day
that your Captain will call you and you must obey.
Your captain will call you it grieves my heart so,
Won't you let me go with you?
No, my love, no.

I'll tie back my hair, men's clothing I'll put on,
I'll pass as your comrade, as we march along.
I'll pass as your comrade, no one will ever know.
Won't you let me go with you?
No, my love, no.

Oh Johnny, oh Johnny, I fear you are unkind
I love you far better than all of mankind.
I love you far better than words can e're express
Won't you let me go with you?
Yes, my love, yes.

Yes, My Love, Yes.


And then there is the ever popular:


Look At The Coffin

Look at the coffin with its golden handles.
Isn't it grand, boys, to be bloody well dead.

chorus:
Let's not have a sniffel
Let's have a bloody good cry.
And always remember the longer you live,
the sooner you'll bloody well die.

Look at the flowers, all blody withered,
Isn't it grand boys, to be bloody well dead.

chorus

Look at the mourners, bloody great hypocrites,
isn't it grand boys to be bloody well dead.

chorus

Look at the preacher, bloody santimonious,
Isn't it grand boys to be bloody well dead.

chorus

They sing about glory, and honor the war,
Isn't it grand boys to be bloody well dead.

chorus

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 01:21 AM

#1 is "And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda", especially as performed by the composer, Eric Bogle.

Add to the list of good 'uns:

Steve Goodman's "Ballad of Penny Evans"

Malvina Reynold's (I think) "What Have They Done to The Rain"

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: chouxfleur
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 03:12 AM

There are so many, but one for me is JIMMY NEWMAN by Tom Paxton.

Without writing the whole song its about an injured soldier talking to his friend whom he thinks is asleep. The last line is something like (from memory)

Wake up Jimmy Newman and show them you heard,
I tell 'em you sleep hard but they're shaking their heads
And you've only to open your eyes
And you've only to open your eyes.....


Powerful stuff eh??

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: cetmst
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 06:53 AM

Agree with most mentioned above:
Band Played Waltzing Matilda
No Man's Land
Mothers, Daughters, Wives
Dancing At Whitsun
With God on Our Side
Where Have All the Flowers Gone
And many others - Add:
Rosemary's Sister by Huw Williams
When Princes Meet by Tom Paxton
Dead Girl of Hiroshima (I Come and Stand at Every Door) by
Nazim Hikmet and James Waters
Just a Roll of the Drum as done by Fairport Convention
Writing of Tiperary by B. Caddick
And on a lighter side, Take Off Your Clothes by Mark Levy
Would make a great album

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Strupag
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 08:38 AM

By the time i got to this thread, all my favourites have been suggested.
Sad thing about Eric Bogle's "No man's land" is, that when the Irish bands covered it they decided to change the title to "Green Fields of France" as the title, "N M L " had political overtones over there. The also changed the line "When the rifles fire o'er ye" as that had also political overtones.


Andy

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 08:59 AM

"Handsome Johnny"
"My son John"
"D Day dodgers"
Giok

Subject: Lyr Add: THE RED FEAST (Ralph Chapin)
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 01:12 PM

"The Red Feast" by Ralph Chapin. It is, correctly, a poem but has been set to music. It was written in 1912 or 13 and was a protest against the madness in Europe which became WWI. The poem is printed in the original "Little Red Song Book", published by the IWW.

I can't remember it all but enough to give you an idea of it's unrelenting anger at war and war's "masters". I
believe it was 10 or 12 verses in all.

The Red Feast
Raplh Chapin

Go fight you fools
Tear up the earth with strife
And spill each other's guts
upon the field.
Serve unto death
The men you served in life,
So that THEIR wide dominions
May not yield.

Stand by the flag
The lie that still allures
Lay down your lives for land
You do not own
And give unto
A war that is not yours
Your gory tithe
Of mangled flesh and bone

But whether in the fray
To fall or kill
You do not dare to
Question why or where
You see those tiny crosses on that hill?
It took all those to save one millionare!

It was for him the sea of blood was shed
That fields were razed
And cities lit the sky
That he might come
And chortle o'er the dead
That condor thing
For whom the millions die

The last verse, as I remember it was:

Then you will know that Nation's but a name
And bounderies are things that don't exist
And mankind's bondage, worldwide, is the same
and WAR the enemy he must resist.

CB

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: breezy
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 02:01 PM

'The Year of The Drum' was written by Wendy Joseph, a Kiwi living in Adelaide
The town is Manum which lost more men per head population in both world wars than any other in South Australia.
Martin learned it from a Richard Avery from Toronto
Its on the album 'A Rose From The bush' 1984

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From:
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 04:51 PM

thanks, breezy.

Jack

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: pastorpest
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 06:23 PM

Ï really like the Bogle songs as well. But the peace march I was on today in our small Canadian prairie city began with singing Ed McCurdy's "Last Night I had the Srangest Dream" and Sy Miller's and Jill Jackson's "Let There Be Peace on Earth." People, including non singer types learned the McCurdy song quickly.

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: breezy
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 07:55 PM

my pleasure jnz,Herga FC Mon .?

Subject: Lyr Add: 1000 CANDLES 1000 CRANES (Rich Priezioso)
From: John Hardly
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 09:52 PM

1000 CANDLES 1000 CRANES
Rich Priezioso, 1998 Tatertunes Music

My grandmother had three sones
She dreamed about her children's children
Then came 1941
Only one son would see the war end

Joseph died marching in Bataan
Frank on the sands of Iwo Jima
The day the bomb destoyed Japan
She thanked God and Harry Truman

She blamed the godless Japanese
For having crushed her sweetest dreams
One thousand candles for my sons
Every day I will remember

In Illinois, far from her past
Miss Nakamura still remembers
She was six when she saw the flash
That turned the world to smoke and ashes

Mother taught her daughter well
Run from the fire to the river
There she found a living hell
But not a mother or a father

Though she survived with just a scrape
Her family vanished into space
One thousand suns, one thousand cranes
Everyday I will remember

My grndmother had three sons
She never dreamed she'd have a daughter
But at the age of eighty-one
She met a nurse named Nakamura

It was a question only meant
To make some talk and pass the hours
About a picture by the bed
A photograph of two young soldiers

Hatred and anger stored for years
Slowly melted into tears
One thousand candles, a thousand cranes
Everyday I will remember

I've a picture in my mind
Of two women slowly walking
August 6th, 1985
Walking to church to light a candle

And they once asked me to explain
Why grown men play such foolish games
One thousand candles, a thousand cranes
Everyday I will remember.

Subject: Lyr Add: FOR THE FALLEN (T O'Brien and P Aaberg)
From: John Hardly
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 09:55 PM

FOR THE FALLEN
From Two Journeys
(©1999 Tim O'Brien and Phillip Aaberg, Howdy Skies Music/Universal Music Pub/Big Open Music/ASCAP)


The seeds of this war were sewn in our father's time
And every bomb will plant some more fear and hate
Let's break this chain of history before it gets too late

How many men will choose to run with the mad dog
How many more will have to die at his bloody hand
And who will shield our children from this plague that kills our land

I close my eyes and ears, don't want the news
I will not watch them play the scenes again
Don't ask me who's side I'm on, or what I think about it
Cause I don't want to play that game, I'm not buyin in

What do you need to get through the daytime
What do you need to get through the night
Who made these rules and who's to say who's wrong and who is right

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: bfolkemer
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 11:25 PM

Some other good ones are "The Wars in High Germany," sung by Jean Redpath, "Will You Go to Flanders," performed by Providence, and in an updated version, by Andy M. Stewart; and "The Banks of the Nile," sung by either Planxty or De Dannan, as well as Ewan MacColl. In fact, he included versions of the first two in his compilation of Scottish ballads. "I Will Go," performed by the Corries and others, has a different twist. The highland men serve the king in the armed forces, but afterward return to their homes to find that they have been destroyed, and their families have been victims of the clearances.

We've often been singing "Let Peace Prevail," from a recent edition of SingOut!

Beth

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 01:41 PM

I'd toss in this one to think about (not necessarily the best;
there are _too_ many excellent choices to choose from):

51st (Highland) Division's Farewell To Sicily

Written by Hamish Henderson, with an eerie pipe music tune
by Pipe-Major J. Robertson. It's on Dick Gaughan's
album "Sail On". Gives me the shivers.

Some links on Dick Gaughan's page (above) tell more about the
song. Hearing Dick Gaughan on it, he talks about the soldiers
leaving Sicily ... but they're not off home; but rather off
to the mainland for the next battle. . . . And there's
always a "next battle".


Another person who's written more than one song
about war and such is: Fred Small


Cheers,

                            -- Arne Langsetmo

Cheers,

                               -- Arne Langsetmo

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Cluin
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 11:32 PM

Dick Gaughan originally released that one long ago on his classic "Kist O' Gold" album. But good luck finding it. Another victim of CM Distribution.

Subject: Lyr Add: WHEN BILLY CAME BACK (Burt/Champion)
From: GUEST,alinact
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 03:08 PM

A couple of Aussie songs. The first was recorded by Leslie Avril, and I'm guessing that one of the authors is Greg Champion, a Melbourne singer/songwriter.

WHEN BILLY CAME BACK (Burt/Champion)

When I knew Bill
he was an old man.
His head was high,
his heart was strong.
Remembrance Day,
I wore his medals.
He came back
to carry on.

Now Billy was a boy in 1914.
Grew up working the farm at Diamond Creek.
Rode his horse to school across the ranges.
Gave him memories his heart would keep.

And when the Lighthorse came to call,
no, he didn't have to think at all.

When billy came back
he was a young man.
His head was high,
his heart was strong.
There were the things
he never spoke of.
When Billy came back
to carry on.

Never mind the pain and hopeless slaughter.
Never mind the days that have no end.
Three years a'lookin' back across the water.
In a world of pain and death and men.

But the tale he would always tell,
was their pity as the horses fell.

When Billy came back
he was a young man.
His head was high,
his heart was strong.
From poison gas
his lungs were broken.
When Billy came back
to carry on.

Down amongst the dark and muddy trenches,
Billy wrote his letters to his home.
His mother kept them bound in silken ribbon
till the day when marching home he'd come.

He said "They put on quite a show,
but the truth I would never know".

When Billy came back
he was a young man.
His head was high,
his heart was strong.
There were the things
he never spoke of.
When Billy came back
to carry on.

But this could not destroy
the loving heart of a country boy.

When Billy came back
he was a young man.
His head was high,
his heart was strong.
From poison gas
his lungs were broken.
When Billy came back
to carry on.

When Billy came back
he was a young man.
His head was high,
his heart was strong.
There were the things
he never spoke of.
When Billy came back
to carry on.

The second song was written, I believe, not long after Eric Bogle's "Band Played ..." and gives the Turkish perspective of the landing at Anzac Cove. I've had these lyrics written down for a long time, but never wrote down the title, author or performer (although on the page its written on is the name Paul Hamphill). Any information greatly appreciated.

Allan

WATCHERS OF THE WATER?(P Hamphill?)

Sun's fiery furnace
beating on our backs
as we fixed our sharpened bayonets
and shouldered hidden packs.

We marched in ordered file
to destiny that day.
To a land God had forgotten
due east of Suvla Bay.

And in hills so rough and rugged,
we pulled our guns by hand.
Raised the shells upon our shoulders
to the heights we must command.

We watched and prayed and waited;
each heart beating like a drum.
we all had our eyes on the seaward horizon,
to west, where they would come.

And the cold moon she rose on
the watchers of the water.
The stars hung brightly
high above the trees.
And in the warm night tide
sheep came to the slaughter
from their land so
far away across the sea.

And when night fell, oh
she fell so soft and silent.
We could have been in the
garden of paradise.
And no man raised his voice,
not a soul made a noise,
though our blood ran
as cold, as cold, as ice.

And the cold moon she rose on
the watchers of the water.
The stars hung brightly
high above the trees.
And in the warm night tide
sheep came to the slaughter
from their land so
far away across the sea.

The cruel moon light
upon the water glistened,
and enrapt
in all of our hopes and fears.
And in the warm night tide
oh, we watched and listened,
with sharpened eyes
and very, very frightened ears.

And we saw small boats come sailing
from ships far out to sea.
And the shells came at us, playing
an infernal symphony.

And with fists of fire and steel
we were hammered that night.
And many great men went to God
without a chance to fight.
And as the boats drew nearer, oh
we watched with baited breath,
and we waited for the order
at our turn to deal with death.

And the cold moon she rose on
the watchers of the water.
The stars hung brightly
high above the trees.
And in the warm night tide
sheep came to the slaughter
from their land so
far away across the sea.

From their land so far away across the sea!

Subject: Lyr Add: TRAVELING SOLDIER
From: GUEST,Julia
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 03:47 PM

The one that's been going through my head is Bruce Robison and Farrah Braniff's "Traveling Soldier", just recorded by the Dixie Chicks.

TRAVELING SOLDIER
(Bruce Robison & Farrah Braniff)

Two days past eighteen
He was waiting for the bus in his army greens
Sat down in a booth in a cafe there
Gave his order to a girl with a bow in her hair

He's a little shy so she gives him a smile
And he said would you mind sittin' down for a while
And talking to me, I'm feeling a little low
She said I'm off in an hour and I know where we can go

So they went down and they sat on the pier
He said I bet you got a boyfriend but I don't care
I got no one to send a letter to
Would you mind if I sent one back here to you

CHORUS:
I cried
Never gonna hold the hand of another guy
Too young for him they told her
Waitin' for the love of a travelin' soldier
Our love will never end
Waitin' for the soldier to come back again
Never more to be alone when the letter said
A soldier's coming home

So the letters came from an army camp
In California then Vietnam
And he told her of his heart it might be love
And all of the things he was so scared of

He said when it's gettin' kind of rough over here
I think of that day sittin' down at the pier
And I close my eyes and see your pretty smile
Don't worry but I won't be able to write for awhile

(Chorus)

One Friday night at a football game
The Lord's Prayer said and the Anthem sang
A man said "Folks would you bow your heads
For a list of local Vietnam dead"

Cryin' all alone under the stands
Was the piccolo player in the marching band
And one name read and nobody really cared
But a pretty little girl with a bow in her hair

(Chorus)

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 09:38 PM

G'day alinact/Allan,

The author of Watchers of the Water is Paul Hemphill. It must come from the early part of the '80s, as it was winner of the "New Song and Tune" section of one of the Bush Music Club's annual Song, Poem and Dance Competitions, which started around 1979.

I may well have been the first publisher of this song, in Mulga Wire the Bush Music Club's magazine, where I set it against a song from the Australian side.

I'm not sure where Paul is now living - fairly sure it isn't Sydney.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Mickey191
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 12:11 AM

Warning Thread Creep- Does anyone recall a poem popular during The Viet Nam War - don't know the name. Got alot of air time. About war being in a box with a warning "Do not Open-This is War." Thanks.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,alinact
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 12:27 AM

Thanks Bob. I was hoping you would come through with some information.

I first heard a live version of the song on a radio programme David Mullhullan(?) used to have on Radio National on Sunday nights back in the late seventies/early eighties, and I was really taken with the alternate view the song portrayed.

There's a couple of words I've had to guess at; particularly the word "playing" in the middle bit:

And we saw small boats come sailing
from ships far out to sea.
And the shells came at us, playing
an infernal symphony.

Your advice would be appreciated.

Allan

Subject: Lyr Add: THE BOX (from John Denver)
From: Cluin
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 12:29 AM

I remember John Denver recorded a recitation of this one on his Poems, Prayers, and Promises album.


THE BOX
by Kendrew Lascelles

Once upon a time in the land of hush-a-bye,
around about the wondrous days of yore,
They came across a sort of box
Bound up with chains and locked with locks
And labelled, 'Kindly do not touch, it's war.'

A decree was issued 'round about --
All with a flourish and a shout
And a gaily coloured mascot
Tripping lightly on before --
'Don't fiddle with that deadly box
or break the chains or pick the locks
And please don't ever mess about with war.'

Well the children understood,
Children happen to be good
And were just as good around the time of yore.
They didn't try to pick the locks
Or break into that deadly box
And never tried to play about with war.

Mommies didn't either
Sisters, Aunts nor Grannies neither
'Cos they were quiet and sweet and pretty
In those wondrous days of yore,
Well very much the same as now
And not the ones to blame somehow
For opening up that deadly box of war,
But someone did...

Someone battered in the lid
And spilled the insides out across the floor,
A sort of bouncy bumpy ball
made up of flags and guns and all
The tears and the horror and the death
That goes with war.

It bounced right out
And went bashing all about
And bumping into everything in store
And what is sad and most unfair
was that it didn't really seem to care
Much who it bumped, or why,
Or what, or for.

It bumped the children mainly
And I'll tell you this quite plainly,
It bumps them everyday and more and more
And leaves them dead and burned and dying
Thousands of them sick and crying,
'Cos when it bumps it's very, very sore.

There is a way to stop the ball,
It isn't very hard at all,
All it takes is wisdom
And I'm absolutely sure
We could get it back into the box
And bind the chains and lock the locks
But no one seems to want to save the children anymore.

Well that's the way it all appears
'Cos it's been bouncing around for years and years
In spite of all the wisdom wizzed
Since those wondrous days of yore,
And the time they came across that box
Bound up with chains and locked with locks
And labelled, 'Kindly do not touch, it's war.'

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: wildlone
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 02:51 PM

A little aside to the 51st {Highland} Division's Farewell to Sicilly.
Part of the Eight Army [ the army that had fought through the desert in WWII} were pulled out of the line and sent back to England, "to be re-equiped and to have some R&R".
They were equiped OK and kept in barracks until they were put on transport to the Normandy beaches, as the powers in the war office wanted seasoned troops on the beach as they thought that the untried troops would would panic.
BTW. The war through the desert and up through Italy gets forgotten about. The liberation of Rome took place on the same day as D day.
dave

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: gnomad
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 03:12 PM

Bogle's Band Played Waltzing Matilda and (whose?) Dancing at Whitsun are both on my best-songs-ever list.

A couple of fine songs which I don't think have received a mention so far are these 2, both by Keith Marsden: St Aubin sur Mer, and Normandy Orchards.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Geordie
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 03:43 PM

The Patriot Game by Domonic Behan. One of my all time favourite songs. Says it all.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Jazzyjack
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 04:12 PM

Check out the Eileen Laverty thread for " A Mother's Son ".

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Stewie
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 06:37 PM

Allan,

I posted the words to 'Watchers' some time ago. I took them from the album lyric sheet, so they should be as Hemphill wrote 'em.

Watchers of the Water

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: allanwill
Date: 19 Feb 03 - 10:59 AM

Thanks Stewie - of course, "wailing". I did do a search but never thought to put a "The" in front of the title. Doh!

Allan

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: sharyn
Date: 19 Feb 03 - 11:24 PM

Another good one: Charlie King's "Acceptable Risks" -- about the risk of bomb-testing to soldiers

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Indiana Brandon
Date: 19 Feb 03 - 11:40 PM

WOW!!! I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned "Portland Town" by Deroll Adams, and "War Pigs" by Black Sabbath..."War Pigs" certainly isn't too "folky" but hey...Ramblin' Jack Elliot does a damn good version of "Portland Town"...

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Indiana Brandon
Date: 19 Feb 03 - 11:46 PM

If anybody gets a chance to check out the band Seize the Day, please do........they have a good song called "With my Hammer", which is about a true story of two(?) women going on to a British military base and destroying a jet with just hammers in their hands. The jet was going to be shipped to Indonesia to kill East Timorese...the very amaing thing that occured was that the judge at their trial acquitted them, even when they fully admitted to their "crime".....the judge's response was that they were stopping a greater crime....peace....

Indiana Brandon

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Indiana Brandon
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 01:05 AM

somebody mentioned "morning Dew" as performed by the Grateful Dead......Bonnie Dobson actually wrote it and performed it originally.....I think it was first recorded on her album "Hootenanny with Bonnie Dobson"........

Indiana Brandon

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,bdtheqb
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 01:51 AM

excellent choices all.. xmas in the trenches is, to me, a very sad commentary about the human condition but gives one a "feel" of what "war" is like maybe.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Longarm
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 02:29 AM

Don't know about the song but Alistair Huelett wrot an anti war/leftwing song and the most telling line was: 'A bayonet has a working class man on each end"! Perceptive eh?

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Stewie
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 03:29 AM

Too true, Longarm. And this from Ed Pickford:

And when the sky darkens
And the prospect is war
Who's given a gun
And then pushed to the fore
And expected to die
For the land of our birth
When we've never owned
One handful of earth?

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Midchuck
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 11:02 AM

Did no one mention "Children of Darkness" on this whole thread, or did I miss it?

I can't believe Dick Farina's been totally forgotten. Or are you all just kids?

On a more current note, I'm very taken by Mick Ryan's Lament, on Tim O'Brien's new album. (Melody is "Garry Owen," if that isn't obvious.)

Peter.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,boab_d
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 11:08 AM

Hello again I totally agree with the Eric Bogle Choices but his best one
my youngest son came home today hasnt been mentioned
Another couple of real crackers are
Gaberlunzie Dont You Bury Me Before the Battle
Billy Connolly I'm Askin Yae Sergeant Where's Mine

These are just two really great songs that everyone should have a listen too
Dylan

Subject: Lyr Add: HOME LADS HOME
From: Gervase
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 12:35 PM

Among my favourites are Home Lads Home, by Cicely Fox Smith, set to music by Sarah Morgan:

HOME LADS HOME

Overseas in Flanders the sun was setting low,
With tramp of feet and jingle as I heard the gunteams go.
But something seemed to set me a dreaming as I lay
Of my old Hampshire village at the quiet end of day.

CHORUS: And it's home, lads home, all among the corn and clover;
Home lads home, when the working day is over.
Where there's rest for horse and man; when the longest day is done,
And we'll all go home together at the setting of the sun.

Proud thatch with gardens blooming with lily and with rose;
The Meon flowing past them, so quiet as it goes.
White fields of oats and barley and the elderflower like foam,
And the sky a gold at sunset and the horses going home.

Captain, Boxer, Traveller, I see them all so plain,
With tasselled earflaps nodding all along the leafy lane.
Somewhere a bird is calling and the swallow flying low,
And the lads all sitting sideways and singing as they go.

Gone is many a lad now and many a horse gone too;
All those lads and horses from great fields that I knew.
For Dick fell at Givenchy and Prince beside the gun
On that red road to glory a mile or two from Mons.

Grey lads and shadowy horses, I see them all so plain;
I see them and I know them and I call them each by name
While riding down from Swanmore with all the West a-glow,
And the lads all sitting sideways and singing as they go;

CHORUS: And it's home, lads, home, with the sunset on their faces;
Home lads, home to those quiet happy places,
Where there's rest for horse and man, when the longest day is done,
And we'll all go home together at the setting of the sun.

Les Sullivan, a songwriter who deserves greater fame, has written two superb songs:

MENIN GATE

I see you reading names carved in stone
Each one a man with a tale of his own
You came to Ieper with your friends for fun
I came with mine but I carried a gun

I was a sailor barely nineteen
I fell so far from the sea
They play their bugles each night at eight
For people like me at the old Menin Gate

We joined the navy to fight on the sea
Parfitt and Sawdy, young Dave Tee and me
Funny to think then the one ship we saw
Took us to Belgium to die in the war.

I was a sailor barely nineteen
I fell so far from the sea
They play their bugles each night at eight
For people like me at the old Menin Gate

Everywhere water, rain, mud and clay
One great explosion in water I lay
There in that shell hole that's where I drowned
And to this day well I've never been found

I was a sailor barely nineteen
I fell so far from the sea
They play their bugles each night at eight
For people like me at the old Menin Gate

Laugh with your friends as you travel this land
Read our four names perhaps you'll understand
Out in the fields there's an old shattered tree
And Parfitt and Sawdy, young Dave Tee and me.

I was a sailor barely nineteen
I fell so far from the sea
They play their bugles each night at eight
For people like me at the old Menin Gate.

and

JUTLAND

Where are you goin' my Billy-O,
Where are you goin' my Billy-O,
I'm joining a ship in Scapa Flow,
That's where I'm going my Nancy.

I'm joining "Queen Mary" Nancy-O,
Joining "Queen Mary" Nancy-O,
She's bristling with guns and ready to go,
To sail to glory with Jellicoe,

CHORUS: But where is "Queen Mary"? Gone Now!
And where is the glory? Gone Now!
And six thousand sailors, Gone Now!
They have gone to the bottom at Jutland.

Where are you goin' my Rodney-O,
IWhere are you goin' my Rodney-O,
'm joining a ship in Scapa Flow,
That's where I'm going my Nancy.

I'm joining "Invincible" Nancy-O,
Joining "Invincible" Nancy-O,
She's bristling with guns and ready to go,
To sail to glory with Jellicoe,

CHORUS: But where is "Invincible"? Gone Now!
And where is the glory? Gone Now!
And six thousand sailors, Gone Now!
They have gone to the bottom at Jutland.

Where are you goin' my Johnny-O,
Where are you goin' my Johnny-O,
I'm joining a ship in Scapa Flow,
That's where I'm going my Nancy.

I'm joining the "Black Prince" Nancy-O,
Joining the "Black Prince" Nancy-O,
She's bristling with guns and ready to go,
To sail to glory with Jellicoe,

CHORUS: But where is the "Black Prince"? Gone Now!
And where is the glory? Gone Now!
And six thousand sailors, Gone Now!
They have gone to the bottom at Jutland.

Bob Hambleton of Herga and Maidenhead Folk Clubs has also written a lovely song about song and war - sadly I haven't got the words. Micca has also written an affecting song about Thiepval.