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BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .

KarlMarx 16 Feb 03 - 08:49 AM
GUEST,Gern 16 Feb 03 - 11:05 AM
Amos 16 Feb 03 - 11:08 AM
KarlMarx 16 Feb 03 - 11:16 AM
Geoff the Duck 16 Feb 03 - 11:57 AM
Joe Offer 16 Feb 03 - 12:16 PM
KarlMarx 16 Feb 03 - 12:28 PM
Amos 16 Feb 03 - 01:43 PM
KarlMarx 16 Feb 03 - 01:46 PM
The Pooka 16 Feb 03 - 02:23 PM
GUEST,Amos 16 Feb 03 - 03:26 PM
KarlMarx 16 Feb 03 - 03:34 PM
Amos 16 Feb 03 - 05:17 PM
KarlMarx 16 Feb 03 - 07:08 PM
Amos 16 Feb 03 - 07:18 PM
GUEST 16 Feb 03 - 07:50 PM
KarlMarx 16 Feb 03 - 08:26 PM
GUEST,Gern 17 Feb 03 - 10:26 AM
Amos 17 Feb 03 - 10:44 AM
GMT 17 Feb 03 - 11:36 AM

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Subject: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: KarlMarx
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 08:49 AM

One of every thinking person's favorite Socialists, Kurt Vonnegut, recently celebrated his birthday, with remarks on the looming war on the Iraqi people:

   'I myself feel that our country, for whose Constitution I fought in a just war, might as well have been invaded by Martians and body snatchers. Sometimes I wish it had been. What has happened, though, is that it has been taken over by means of the sleaziest, low-comedy, Keystone Cops-style coup d'etat imaginable. And those now in charge of the federal government are upper-crust C-students who know no history or geography, plus not-so-closeted white supremacists, aka "Christians," and plus, most frighteningly, psychopathic personalities, or "PPs."

   To say somebody is a PP is to make a perfectly respectable medical diagnosis, like saying he or she has appendicitis or athlete's foot. The classic medical text on PPs is "The Mask of Sanity " by Dr. Hervey Cleckley. Read it! PPs are presentable, they know full well the suffering their actions may cause others, but they do not care. They cannot care because they are nuts. They have a screw loose!


   And what syndrome better describes so many executives at Enron and WorldCom and on and on, who have enriched themselves while ruining their employees and investors and country, and who still feel as pure as the driven snow, no matter what anybody may say to or about them? And so many of these heartless PPs now hold big jobs in our federal government, as though they were leaders instead of sick.'


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: GUEST,Gern
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 11:05 AM

As usual, Vonnegut hits the nail with the piledriver. Throughout a stellar career, he has blended wit and wisdom to produce refreshing and provoking novels and lectures. Every thinking person ought to dig out and read his vintage Graduation Address, and everyone who believes that might makes right and just wars make sense ought to revisit Slaughterhouse Five. Glad to hear he is still growling and snarling, and sorry to realize we give him so much reason to do so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 11:08 AM

Gern:

I don't think the Graduation Address attributed to Vonnegut was ever his -- I believe it was one of those Internet webfooleries. Even so, it was a fine piece of imitation.

Regardless, anyone who can't define granfaloon in 10 words or less needs to re-read this guy end-to-end. He has added tothe sum total of Western genius at the top. I love his ass.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: KarlMarx
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 11:16 AM

Yes. I remember that I had a very radical high school teacher, who assigned lots of Vonnegut for us to read. I bless that teacher, every bit as much as I bless Vonnegut himself. I'm anxiously awaiting the release of "Slaughterhouse Five" on DVD . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 11:57 AM

Tweet!


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 12:16 PM

Here's a message that was posted in another thread.
-Joe Offer-
Thread #56705   Message #888071
Posted By: GUEST
11-Feb-03 - 07:22 PM
Thread Name: Miscellaneous BS
Subject: BS: Vonnegut Interview @ AlterNet

Loathe and ignore me, as the hawkish wing of Mudcat keeps suggesting you do, if you absolutely must. But for those of you who aren't obsessed with identity issues at Mudcat, I offer this information I'd like to offer to you. Especially if you are a fan of Vonnegut, but even if you aren't, you might just want to read what one of the best American writers has to say at his young 80 years of age, here:

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15098


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: KarlMarx
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 12:28 PM

Unlike Boy George, Cheney and most of the other nitwits in the current White House, Vonnegut saw the effects of war first-hand. So much for the war-chickenhawks . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 01:43 PM

Follow the link provided above to the Vonnegut interview. It is a royal jolt int he keistyer, like everything this man says. I love his ass, as I have mentioned. Here are two brief excerpts:

...
"What has allowed so many PPs to rise so high in corporations, and now in government, is that they are so decisive. Unlike normal people, they are never filled with doubts, for the simple reason that they cannot care what happens next. Simply can't. Do this! Do that! Mobilize the reserves! Privatize the public schools! Attack Iraq! Cut health care! Tap everybody's telephone! Cut taxes on the rich! Build a trillion-dollar missile shield! Fuck habeas corpus and the Sierra Club and In These Times, and kiss my ass! " ...

That said, do you have any ideas for a really scary reality TV show?


"C students from Yale." It would stand your hair on end.


What targets would you consider fair game for a satirist today?


Assholes.




And that about says it all, IMNSHO.



A


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: KarlMarx
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 01:46 PM

Thanks, Amos! The quotes that I posted to start this thread came from that same, delightful interview . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: The Pooka
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 02:23 PM

Wow. Well said Amos; & Amen Amen to everybody else too. / C students from Yale izzit? >> "Babies full of rabies. Yes yes." / Happy Birthday KV Jr. 80! Think of that. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: GUEST,Amos
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 03:26 PM

What Pooka said... Amos, the Graduation Address I referred to was from a mid-70s event at a location I cannot recall. But it had been anthologized some time back. Is this the Address you consider apochryphal?


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: KarlMarx
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 03:34 PM

It was His Excellency Kofi Annan who gave the commencement address to the MIT graduates, not Vonnegut. The words attributed to Vonnegut were actually written by a certain Mary Schmich . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 05:17 PM

Hey, what's this crap stealing mah handle, there, Guesty!!?? Yes, that's the one that is apocryphal, and was written by Mary someoebody....

But sign your own damn name henceforth.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: KarlMarx
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 07:08 PM

Mary Schmich . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 07:18 PM

Exactly so -- Mary Schmich -- and here is the story in her own words.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 07:50 PM

Vonnegut is the Mark Twain of our times.

"The soldier, above all others, prays for peace, for he must bear the heaviest burdens and deepest scars of war." - Gen. Douglas MacArthur, 1963.

Even President Eisenhower, who had a distinguished military career, seemed a little remorseful and cynical in his "Military-Industrial Complex" speech of 1961. A few excerpts follow: "...we yet realize that America's leadership and prestige depend, not merely upon our unmatched material progress, riches and military strength, but on how we use our power in the interests of world peace and human betterment.

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

"We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

"As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow.

"Disarmament, with mutual honor and confidence, is a continuing imperative. Together we must learn how to compose differences, not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose. Because this need is so sharp and apparent I confess that I lay down my official responsibilities in this field with a definite sense of disappointment."

In order to avoid the perception that the above quotes may have been taken out of context, here's a link to the complete text of Eisenhower's speech: Eisenhower's military-industrial complex speech

http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: KarlMarx
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 08:26 PM

Thanks for the link, Amos, kind sir . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: GUEST,Gern
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 10:26 AM

My apologies, Amos. The inquiry was from me; I had to look up your name to direct the question to you, and thoughtlessly put it in the wrong line.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: Amos
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 10:44 AM

OK, Gern!! Didn't mean to over-react. As you may be aware there has been some abuyse of identities in the past. Very strange sensation seeing your name on a voice not your own!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Kurt Vonnegut turns 80 . . .
From: GMT
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 11:36 AM

'That one was a doosey'.....


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Mudcat time: 22 October 12:13 PM EDT

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