BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today

Subject: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST,Anti-war moderate
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 05:07 PM

I am extremely disappointed in CNN today. They have gone out of their way to completely ignore one of the biggest stories of my lifetime.

Far more than a million people on this planet were out demonstrating against war yesterday.

If that isn't THE story for today, what in Heaven's name IS?

All day long I've tuned in and out to see them discussing the huge implications of the protest, and there has been nothing!

I've seen Tom Ridge talking about duct tape, and Jonah Goldberg showing baby pictures. Donna Brazile talking about Democrats who mught run for President.

OK, all day the PLANS for war have been discussed, just as they have been for several weeks, but NOTHING about the largest protest of our lifetimes. I KNOW the demonstrations make Bush look very bad, but it's still the news. Isn't that what we criticize OTHER countries for?

I've always thought that CNN was reasonably independant. Was that my mistake? Did the WORD come down to completely ignore the story? Has this happened before?


How are other TV news outlets around Mudcat range handling it?

Ticked off

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: harvey andrews
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 05:20 PM

I watched CNN "world news" on the day of the marches. It was all about a memorial to 9/11. I thing CNN like many other American institutions thinks America is the world.
Maybe it is. Rumsfeld is reported as setting out to cripple the German economy because somebody a German him there was another point of view.
How long will decent Americans tolerate this insane hubris?

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 05:31 PM

I also saw very little coverage of the peace demonstrations yesterday and nearly no mention of them today. When the DO talk about them, it's in a sort of "Oh, isn't that cute. Completely insignificant, but cute" sort of way. I don't trust the media to tell the truth. There once were certain people I believed had integrity. Now, it's all spin doctoring. They are owned.

On the other hand, New Hampshire Public Radio had a show on yesterday about how many of the reasons we got into the Gulf War were completely fabricated by the Powers That Be and gladly spread by the media.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: harvey andrews
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 05:33 PM

To clarify above posting;
Rumsfeld is reported as setting out to cripple the German economy because somebody, a German politician, told him there was another point of view.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 05:43 PM

I found it most interesting that the CNN headline on Netscape's homepage yesterday was nothing to do with the worldwide peace marches. Instead, one was greeted with a picture of the White House and the question "Are Aliens Out There? George Bush Wants to Know!"

What a transparent attempt to divert public attention off what's really important by offering sensational sci-fi drivel instead!

It's almost humiliating to ponder just how STUPID the propogandists must believe the average person really is ...

Yesterday proves without a doubt they've got another think comin - I hope!

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: sed
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 05:48 PM

Did CNN cover the following?

Reckless Administration May Reap Disastrous Consequences

by US Senator Robert Byrd (W.Va.)
Senate Floor Speech - Wednesday, February 12, 2003

To contemplate war is to think about the most horrible of human experiences. On this February day, as this nation stands at the brink of battle, every American on some level must be contemplating the horrorsof war. Yet, this Chamber is, for the most part, silent -- ominously, dreadfully silent. There is no debate, no discussion, no attempt to lay out for the nation the pros and cons of this particular war. There is nothing. We stand passively mute in the United States Senate, paralyzed by our own uncertainty, seemingly stunned by the sheer turmoil of events. Only on the editorial pages of our newspapers is there much substantive discussion of the prudence or imprudence of engaging in this particular war. And this is no small conflagration we contemplate. This is no simple attempt to defang a villain. No. This coming battle, if it materializes, represents a turning point in U.S. foreign policy and possibly a turning point in the recent history of the world.

[truncated]

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 05:49 PM

poor "babies" Why don't you make a CD so you can play your whining over and over without actually having to do it? Besides doesn't anyone notice that most of these threads are started by GUESTS???

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 05:49 PM

I am happy to report that one of our local tv news crews led last night's ten o'clock news with coverage of our march and rally and it made the front page of our local rag, today, with a fairly decent write up.

I was very unhappy with NPR; I expected better and more from them, instead they had on fluff stuff. Even though police in Colorado Springs used tear gas on protesters and hit one of them with a rubber bullet!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: harvey andrews
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 05:52 PM

Dear Guest..the poor babies are in Iraq..it's their whining you can hear. Cover your ears, close your eyes..it'll go away.... and then maybe you can sleep.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 05:52 PM

And your point, GUEST?

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 06:00 PM

Well, as of 6:00 pm Mudcat time on Sunday, there were five demonstration stories on Internet's CNN-World and two more on CNN-US. I guess I must get a different CNN. Oh, you meant TV, GUEST? Sorry, never watch it.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 06:01 PM

The BBC Television News (on cable here in Canada) gave pretty good coverage, pointing out that the marches were the largest since a couple of the protests during the Vietnam War, and interviewing some of the participants.
Too often, Bush comes across as a schoolyard bully.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 06:03 PM

Oh yeah, CNN had a green UFO hovering enticingly over the White House in yesterday's headline picture as well ... just had to do justice to the sheer talent of 'Big Brother's' artists ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 06:14 PM

PS - I'm referring to yesterday's homepage for cdn.netscape.com, which features CNN stories that are updated daily.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 06:20 PM

Sounds like the kind of news coverage countries like China and the old USSR was rightly scorned for having.

With the Internet, it becomes increasingly hard to keep a country hermetically sealed against what is happening outside its borders, but I suppose they still try in some places. And the trouble is that most people still seem to depend on the mass media to tell them what is going on and what to think about it.

I can understand that for people who aren't in a position to find out for themselves - but that can't apply in the United States, where figures in May last year indicated that 165.2 million people had Internet access.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 06:28 PM

Yes, I too was appalled at the USA Today Sunday front page... The conspicuous absence of Democracy... diversions, distractions, fingerpointing, exagerations, and no substance. It's a little like being robbed at noon on a busy street at gunpoint... The sheer audacity of this administration is nauseating.

But as Bush mumble and fumbles, and Condi does everything she can to cover for him and shove 'we's down the throats of the American People, and Colin 'goes to bat' and lies for him to the whole world, I find that I am less and less concerned about 'him', ...I'm finding my attention shifting to the 'powers' that put Bush in place. Who are these people? Control of the media is not acceptible behavior in a democracy. ...of course, neither is a 'coup de tat'... Then again, why are the American people allowing this 'garbage in, garbage out' media ploy anyway? If we're so rich, is it any excuse to be this ignorant? ...Oh, don't bore me with that 'politics stuff', I've got to meet with my Mutual Fund broker in order to shift my portfolio bias to defense contractors...

C'mon all o ya! Since when did Bush EVER get a mandate to be entirely detatched from public forum and consent? Some 'special' group has placed the Bush administration into the same creepy category as Saddam H. The world deserves better.
end of rant. ttr

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 06:39 PM

In the past hour, the scrolling thingie CNN has at the bottom of the screen has mentioned the protests. Mainly, it has said things like "Iraq claims victory." I felt there was a strong implication that protesters were traitors.

Harvey, I haven't heard any reports of Rumsfeld's remarks. I suspect there's a lot more I haven't heard. People will care - IF the news is spoon fed to them, because there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of questioning and truth-seeking going on now.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 06:54 PM

Hey, folks, CNN is just "following orders", as is ABC, NBC. BBS, Fox, PBS, The Washington POst, The New York Times, ect., etc., etc...

Yep, from what I saw from surfing the channels is "Exhibit A" in the case of Bush v. Democracy. Plenty of drum beaters. Condi "Oildgal" Rice got more time in one 1/2 hour period than did the largest peace demonstration in the history of man.

What little coverage that I saw tried to link the portray the protesters to Saddam.

Go figure?

But for drum beaters I'd just like to remind you that one day you might need *dmocracy* and when ya' start looking for it you may find it hard to find. It's hard to understand how well meaning people will just sit by and idlely watch the 1st Ammmendment go down the drain just soyou can have your way on the issue of war. Hmmmmmm?

Don't say I didn't warn you. Oh, it doesn't matter because we're on the threshold of not being able to say anything *except* what we are told. Just like CNN!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 07:22 PM

Don't those 165.2 million Americans ever feel curious, and reach out a finger to find out?

I mean, if they were Chinese, and the rest of the world spoke a completely different language you could understand it, but...

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 07:35 PM

Are we perhaps going back to feudal days when the populace went about their lives and didn't think about the 'ruling' powers unless and until their lives were impacted by them? I would imagine that many of the common people felt there was no use in rebelling against the rulers because they didn't feel there was much change they could effect, that it was just the way things were.

From that viewpoint, then, are Mudcatters, per se, and the people down the roads and highways the common people and the various governments the feudal lords?

There seems like less reason or justification for this development in these days of television, telephones and the internet but each society is bound by its perceptions.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 09:20 PM

Simply because I find this so completely amazing I've been checking ALL day. The operative word on CNN today has been "Terror", used as a headline over and over again. This is truly surprising to me. I thought they might editorialize a bit (they can't very well call the protesters "Hippies" anymore can they?) but the amzing story (it will be in the history books) is that 'PEOPLE' may actually cause this thing not to happen. Now that would really BE something.

Oops, heather is looking at what I wrote and saying "I don't think Bush, Chaney, Rumsfield and Powell, have ANY intention of losing this opportunity". Who knows? But I feel a tad positive.

Anyone else feel a bit of that?

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 09:25 PM

A million people out of billions - is not much. No body is interested.

Such a waste to have all those reporters stationed in the Gulf with nothing to report.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Mudlark
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 10:52 PM

Rick, I know that denial isn't just a river in Egypt, but I too get the feeling, underneath all the controlled media hype, that this administration is getting a LOT more opposition than it imagined, and that "spin" is getting harder and harder to manipulate.

I quit watching TV news a long time ago, but was gratified to see that my local daily paper carried front page reports of the protests worldwide. I think the networks have been bought and paid for for a long time but at least the printed word still has a little autonomy.

And the very fact that the powers that be are trying so insanely hard to ignore these protests says to me that they are worried...66% of Americans may feel some sort of intervention necessary in Iraq(if polls are to be believed), but a much larger percentage is aghast at the econcomic situation this country now finds itself in. And re=election time just keeps getting closer and closer...

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Lyrical Lady
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 10:55 PM

C hicken N oodle N ews disappoints???..Surprise surprise!!!

LL

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: NicoleC
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 11:27 PM

Gleaned from various presses, source of estimate where known or specified by news source:

New York: 375,000-500,000 (sez organizers, police did not offer an estimate, stationary rally stretched 2 blocks wide by 20 blocks long)
Manhattan: 1,000 -- counter protest in support of war
Wausau, WI: 200 -- counter protest in suport of war
Los Angeles: 30,000 (police), 100,000 (organizers)
Denver: 300 -- counter protest in support of war
Montreal: "over 20,000"
Toronto: "over 15,000"
Mexico City: 10,000
Puerto Rico: 900

Brazil: 1,500 (police)

Sydney: 250,000 (authorities), 500,000 (organizers)
Canberra: "tens of thousands" (Reuters), 16,000
Brisbane: 20,000
Perth: 10,000
Newcastle: 15,000
Melbourne: 150,000

London: 750,000 - 2 million
Glasgow: 50,000-60,000
Dublin: 80,000 (police)

Amsterdam: 70,000
Oslo: 60,000 (police)
Brussels: 50,000
Stockholm: 35,000
Bern: 40,000
Copenhagen: 25,000
Vienna: 15,000
Rome: "650,000" (authorities), "1 million" (police), 3 million (organizers)
Kiev: 2,000
Athens: "several thousand"

Berlin: 300,000-500,000 (police)
Brussels: 50,000 (police)
Germany: (multiple cities incl. Berlin and Brussels): 500,000

Madrid: 660,000 (police), 2 million (organizers)
Barcelona: "over 500,000"
Seville: 60,000
Spain (55 cities incl. Madrid, Seville and Barcelona): 5 million (organizers)

Paris: 100,000
Toulouse: 10,000
France (multiple cities incl. Paris and Toulouse): 300,000

Cape Town: 5,000
Johannesburg: 4,000

Calcutta: 10,000
Tokyo: 5,000
Karachi: 300
Jakarta: 500 (protest last weekend was 7,000)
Dhaka: 1,000-2,000
Kaula Lumpur: 1,500

Cyprus: 500
Tel Aviv: 2,000, mixed Israeli and Palestinian
Damascus: 200,000
Baghdad: "tens of thousands" - not a peace protest, but a militia demonstration

Misc reports of marches in Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, India, East Timor, Pakistan, Kashmir, Moscow, Taipei, Hong Kong, Kazakhstan, Singapore, South Korea, Mostar, Budapest, Lyon, Marseilles, Sofia, Reykjavik, Antarctica, Stuttgart, Thessaloniki, Warsaw, Colorado Springs, CO, Yakima, WA, Augusta, ME, Chicago, IL, Philadephia, PA, Miami, FL, Seattle, WA, Knoxville, TN, Albany, NY


This just in from SF Chronicle: "more than 100,000" Same report of crowd size from MSNBC. Police say 150,000. Organizers say 250,000.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 11:38 PM

Yep, as noted above, just a lot of apathy everywhere.

But, oh what a grand show to see by the rockets red glare.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 11:54 PM

Confronting America's countdown to war, throngs of chanting, placard-waving demonstrators converged on New York and scores of cities across the United States, Europe and Asia yesterday in a global daisy chain of largely peaceful protests against the Bush administration's threatened invasion of Iraq. Today's New York Times has a pretty thorough report on the protests.

Rick, Mudlark and others, for about the last three days I've been feeling a quiver of hope that just maybe Bush, et al, will find that going against the wishes of the UN Security Council and the THRONGS of people around the world are just a tad more than they can pull off. At first I was afraid that he/they would just starting shooting and report it as a war in progress- but since they haven't done that, I'm hoping that at the very least we will have bought ourselves time, time to explore diplomatic means. And given time, it's hard to imagine that Bush will be in a good position to expect re-election.

Isn't it marvelous to consider that maybe the internet age is able to facilitate different behaviors in the governmental powers of the world. Just two hundred years ago, the news of an event could take
three weeks to travel across the US- now it takes literal moments.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 12:28 AM

There is some hope, imo. This is the beginning of an article carried in the New London DAY in Connecticut, Senator Lieberman's stomping grounds. The complete article is here...

United Nations — Rattled by an outpouring of anti-war sentiment, the United States and Britain began reworking a draft resolution Saturday to authorize force against Saddam Hussein.
Diplomats, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the final product may be a softer text that does not explicitly call for war.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: DougR
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:49 AM

Come on folks! The polls still show that the majority of U. S. citizens still support the President! The cable news networks and the other TV networks as well as the nations's newspapers fairly reported the demonstrations! What can you say beyond the fact that a minority of the world's population does not support the UN enforcing the Resolutions that it imposed on Iraq?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST,Kiwi Guest
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 02:12 AM

You will be pleased to know that in little old Wellington New Zealand
more than 5,000 people marched. ( I was amongst them with my little grand son) It is widely reported that well in excess of 10 million people marched world wide in more than 600 centres.
Are bush and his mates feeling threatened by what is happening?

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Frankham
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 10:43 AM

Doug, you said,
"Come on folks! The polls still show that the majority of U. S. citizens still support the President!"

I thought this president didn't believe in polls. Anyway, that's what he said. But who can really trust that?

Folks,

I think that the country is caught in the grip of hysteria. One of the ways out is to deny that there's anything that is not being handled right by the powers in office. It was Richard Perle who said, "We need to un-contextualize 'terror'".
What this means is to use it as a catch-all phrase to condemn those with which the adminstration has a problem. The old buzz word during McCarthy times was "communist". Now it's "terrorist". The news network is in the grip of hysteria instigated by the propagandistic techniques of the Ashcroft office. If they scare people enough with their orange and red code alerts, people will react fearfully and turn off their thinking. CNN and all of the rest of the network news organizations depend on ratings and it's safe to talk about the things that they do.

The present administration is crippling the country with hysteria and it's reflected in it's new broadcasts. Don't count on the media to give you accurate reports on the world situation anymore. After all, that's what the Republicans have been saying for years about the "liberal" media, you can't trust 'em. Now the shoe is on the other political foot and they were right, you can't trust 'em.

Frank Hamilton
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 10:56 AM

Thank you, Frank. Tnat is an excellent explanation of what is happening.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 11:02 AM

Dougie:

Like I've said many times, polls don't mean one danged thing.

You get me the right pollster and we could get Hitler a high approval rate in Isreal!

The real numbers are in the street!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 11:17 AM

Well Doug....I have to say with all respect that some of the polls seem a bit strange. A polling company in Toronto asked people "Would you support the removal of Saddam H.?

I would...in a New York minute.....so my answer would be "Yes".

I don't like him, I think he's a bully, and I'd rather enjoy watching him being hung upside down, like they did to Mussolini. (well now ya know...I ain't a pacifist!)

But if they asked a second question...like "should we bomb the crap out of Iraq and it's poor fundamentalist peasants, in order to 'get him'.....My answer would be a huge NO!

I do NOT think the majority of the US supports going to war.....but there's certainly no way to prove my (or your) point with polls. They can mean anything....and do. Only TIME will tell......BUT.....a lotta folks seem willing to hit the pavement, and I think this is already being noticed big time in Washington.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: JenEllen
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 11:19 AM

I didn't even bother to check CNN, I've been disappointed by their coverage before and pretty much predicted the lack of adequate 'news' on the protests.

For news that is a little more un-biased (not totally so, they tend to go a little 'granola-head' at times) you can check out Free Speech TV on the web.

They had scads of documentaries on the history of non-violent protests, and live coverage of the New York protest. If anything, it's just a different view of the same machine.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 11:32 AM

Recent polls and doctored papers
Composed like comic hero capers
And most of us who go along
Sing always someone else's song
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: sian, west wales
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 11:56 AM

I noticed in a Sunday paper that Blair was quoted as telling demonstrators that they'll "have blood on their hands" if they succeed in stopping the war. Two thoughts jumped to mind. 1) He's getting panicked. 2) That is exactly the WRONG things to get ME on his side! (Although I rush to say that I have never been on his side, not never, not no how.)

Didn't get to London, but did march in Swansea a couple of weeks previously. About a 1000 of us there. Interesting that the British Press did (finally) give London the space it deserved. The march last November was COMPLETELY ignored ... and I still say that the Edwina Curry/John Major 'scandal' was released as a spoiler ...

sian

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: ard mhacha
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 12:09 PM

Nicole, Add 15000 in Belfast march.Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 12:28 PM

I was just watching CNN's "American Morning" program today, and although I can't remember the male talking head's name, I was really put off by his cynicism and obvious contempt for demonstrators they were discussing. I was, however, heartened by hearing former Senator George Mitchell say that public opinion, especially those of the demonstrators in the Western democracies, very important to ANY debate, and must be taken into account in any democracy. He also pointed out that Blair is in serious trouble of being the first victim of "regime change" if the UN Security Council doesn't pass a multi-lateral resolution authorizing military action. He said he didn't think Blair's government would survive a unilateral action without UN Security Council approval by Bush.

I agree with Frank and Jeri. The mainstream media is blatantly attacking the integrity of dissenters with "terrorist baiting" tactics, in the same way the "red baiting" was done with dissenters in previous eras.

As to the disingenuous claim that the majority of Americans support the Bush administration's plans to invade Iraq, that simply ignores the very steady poll numbers, hovering around 62%, ONLY if the military action against Iraq has the support of the UN, as former Senator Mitchell also pointed out. However, when the media whores make this disingenuous claim about "the majority of Americans" not only do they not explain that there is only majority support for multilateral action with UN backing, nor do they address--at all--the substantial percentage of Americans who are opposed to an invasion of Iraq under any circumstances.

I truly believe that disingenuous propaganda mask is being peeled off the mainstream media layer by layer right now in the US, as more and more people see that the only people at the mainstream media's table are Beltway politicians and Beltway media whores, and that the American people are finally beginning to doubt more and more of what they are being told by mainstream media, because they themselves see such a disconnect between the citizenry's lived reality, and the spin, as Guest Anti-war moderate has pointed out.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:32 PM

The New York Times this morning:

WASHINGTON, Feb. 16 — The fracturing of the Western alliance over Iraq and the huge antiwar demonstrations around the world this weekend are reminders that there may still be two superpowers on the planet: the United States and world public opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Beccy
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:39 PM

I just wanted to point out something funny without getting into the fray. It's a real lesson that perspective is everything because as I watched CNN I thought they gave the marchers an inordinate amount of coverage.
I guess your opinion of their coverage all depends on where you come down on the argument of whether or not we should be going into Iraq (don't flame me... I was just pointing out the difference in perceptions.)

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:41 PM

It's true enough Dioug "a minority of the world's population" does not support the UN resolution putting the inspectors in place, but wants instead to stop them now, in case they succeed in carrying through the job to a successful conclusion. Most of that minority is in the USA, with a few fellow-travellers im places like the studies of Tony Blair and Berlusconi.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:51 PM

Perception is everything, though, isn't it.

I agree that all the mainstream media covered the global demonstrations. However, the coverage was most certainly not impartial, objective, or informative.

For instance, how many people who have watched a lot of the coverage on television, saw a single interview with an organizer or media spokesperson for any of the organizations who sponsored the weekend's events? Why is it that not one single news program has invited any representatives of the major three organizations in the US onto a news program to participate in the debate over policy? Why are media spokespeople for Not in Our Name or United for Peace or International ANSWER or the UK's Stop the War Coalition, being asked to appear on the Sunday morning policy discussion programs?

That is what we should be demanding to know. Why are these organizations, who represent the opinions and positions of millions of people worldwide, being locked out of the policy debates by the mainstream media?

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST,The Hated Guest
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 02:04 PM

Sian wrote:

sian, west wales wrote:

I noticed in a Sunday paper that Blair was quoted as telling demonstrators that they'll "have blood on their hands" if they succeed in stopping the war....

This is one way our govts (mine in the U.S., too) will get us to go along with the next phase of the world takeover...surrender of our rights. If we DON'T attack Iraq (because of all those marches, etc) the 'terrorist attacks' are going to occur anyway. And the next attacks will be blamed on Iraqis. The proof has already been manufactured. So when the attacks occur and everyone is stunned and panicked, Blair and Bush will be offered as our saviors. And we WILL accept them...a great majority will, at least, and the rest will shut up because it will be death to speak out. And when both sides of the phony left / right political spectrum unite in active or tacit approval of these monsters, ALL our rights will be obliterated.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 02:17 PM

Well, GUEST, the answer is simple. If the Bush administration can shred the 1st Ammendment, then the others should be that much easier.

I will admit that he's chopping away at the 4th and 5th but the 1st is the litmus test.

The only thing left for him to to clamp down hard on the internet becasue without it, nothing can stop his plans for martial law in America.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 02:23 PM

Right Bobert, and we know from the recent articles in the Washington Post, that the Bush administration is already "getting to work" on shutting down the internet. They will claim it is to prevent terrorism, but what they are really afraid of is what just happened over the weekend.

Terrorist attacks that take place in cyberspace don't kill anyone, though they can certainly wreak havoc with systems and data. But when the internet is used to organize and mobilize worldwide opposition to the global empire builders--watch out!

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST,Peter T.
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 02:25 PM

It is true: only public opinion is keeping the dynamic back of the drive towards war. This is heartening -- the move away from passivity, that dreary helplessness. Everyone protesting can say to themselves, well done. Still, marching is good, but it is only a start.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: harvey andrews
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 02:40 PM

In reply to Jeri's query, this seems to me to be the most disturbing thing to come out of this entire mess. A bully is loose. If the present US administration can threaten germany like this, they can threaten everyone, UK included. I feel this attitude will only lead to more anti-American feeling and a strengthening of the Euro block if only for its own self-preservation. The below is a condensed report from "The Observer" newspaper, a national Sunday daily of high repute and integrity.

"America is to punish Germany for leading international opposition to a war..The US will withdraw all its troops and bases from there and end military and industrial co-operation ...moves that cuold cost the Germans billions of Euros. The plan...discussed by Pentagon officials..on the orders of Donald Rumsfeld.. is designed to 'harm' the German economy to make an example of the country..."We are doing this for one reason only; to harm the German economy" one source told the Observer..."Our troops contribute many millions of dollars. Why should we continue to support a country which has treated NATO...with such incredible contempt?"
Another Pentagon source said "The aim is to hit German trade and commerce. It is not just about taking our troops and equipment out; it is also about cancelling commercial contracts and defence-related arrangements."
The Pentagon plan and the language expressed by officials close to Rumsfeld has horrified State Dept officials, who believe that bullying other countries to follow the US line will further exacerbate anti-Americanism and alienate those European countries that might give support.
"After this, Germany is finished as a serious power" a source added. Rumsfeld was " furious at Germany.He is a bruiser and it looks like he means to do it."

So there you are, how to win friends and influence people. In the US you may not have seen Fischer the German minister shouting at Rumsfeld on TV that he was not convinced of the need for war. The cameras showed Rumsfeld seething. This is his response to a democratically expressed opinion by a friendly state...do as we say or else...I think this bodes very ill for the future of us all and if carried through will lead to very serious long term ramifications.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 02:55 PM

I was watching the US news program "60 Minutes" last night. After attempting to villify Michael Moore for "unfairly attacking" the likes of Charlton Heston in his films, Andy Rooney then engaged in a shockingly savage attack of the French people and the French government for opposing the Bush administration "after all the US did for them in WWII". When are we going to stand up to this propagandist, sycophantic reporting by the mainstream media who, it needs to be remembered, are given nearly free use of the public's airwaves to broadcast this shit, found here:

60 Minutes

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 03:04 PM

Sorry, my above message isn't clear. It should read "After CBS' Bob Simon attempting to villify..."

If you click on "France's Unpaid Debt" you will be able to read a verbatim transcript of the Andy Rooney segment.

This is supposed to be objective and impartial reporting? Because they allow a "commentary" whore to say it, doesn't dispossess the attack on the French of it's power and authority.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 03:37 PM

Thanks Harvey.

Part of me hopes the situation gets a whole lot worse because that's what it will take before the average person realises where our government is taking us. Another part of me, a smarter part, is afraid of what form that "worse" might take.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 04:06 PM

Thanks for posting that, sed. The full text of Robert Byrd's speech can be found HERE.

GUEST, I also saw 60 Minutes last night. I usually enjoy Andy Rooney's curmudgeonly commentaries (in fact, it's a fantasy of mine that I'd like to have his job when he retires), but last night I found him bitterly disappointing and downright mean-spirited. So we liberated France at the end of World War II. Okay, fine! Might as well. We were on our way to Berlin anyway. So--how long and how often are the French supposed to bow and scrape and lick our knees in abject gratitude? And does this mean they're obligated to kiss George W. Bush's (or any other American's or Brit's) bum every time he wants to demand something of him?

Come on, Andy! That's just snotty, and you know it!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: DougR
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 04:15 PM

Uh, Guest, Any Rooney makes no pretense of being objective. He is a commentator, not a reporter. Therefore, he has the freedom to express himself any way he wishes. You have a choice too. You don't have to listen to him.

I was heartened to hear on Television this morning that the sale of French goods (wines, cheeses, water, and other products of France) were being boycotted by U. S. citizens. Not because of an organized campaign, but by Americans who are disgusted with the French government. The French government is not our friend, and I'm beginning to wonder about the German government.

Oh, and I was as delighted to hear Andy Rooney's comments as you were disgusted, Guest.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 04:19 PM

If a friend to whom you owe a debt is trying to walk over a cliff with a baby in his arms, it is not generally consiudered that your gratitude to him is best expresseed by just standing back and doing nothing to try to stop him.

So why all this the hate against France?

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST,An Pluiméir Ceolmhar at home
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 04:20 PM

Don't forget that the last Gulf War was very good for CNN, and incoming Scuds, outgoing Patriots and Air-to-surface missile control system cameras give you much sexier footage than a bunch of plain people of all ages, nationalities and creeds demonstrating so peacefully that the police can't even justify cracking a few skulls.

By the way, if it hadn't been for US-based Mudcat, I wouldn't have known about the demo taking place here in Brussels, "capital of Europe".

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 04:26 PM

So DougR, if your friends disagree with you on a particular subject, do you shout them down, hurl really hurtful public insults at them, tell them what ungrateful parasites they are, and shut them out of your life? Just for disagreeing with you or someone you agree with?

That is the equivalent of what you are talking about with France and Germany. Because they disagree with the Bush administration on how to disarm Iraq, is no justification for the villification they are receiving from this administration, or from this nation's mainstream media. It is shocking, appalling, and deeply disturbing to hear this sort of rhetoric being levelled against our staunchest allies.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Richie
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 04:37 PM

Madeline Albright once compared Saddam to "Hitler." Given Saddam's record it seems unusual that France would allow him to continue playing his games with the UN.

Maybe they are worried about their oil interests.

-Richie

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 04:40 PM

Why wouldn't they be worried about their oil interests in Iraq Richie? We are certainly worried about ours, so your point is...?

Why is this disagreement over whether it is best to disarm Iraq militarily now or later, causing such vicious reactions among right wing Americans?

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 04:57 PM

I think the best way to understand that kind of reaction is to think in terms of "temper tantrums". You get them when the little person involved is so used to having their own way in everything they can't deal with frustration. You've got to be patient, and never lose your temper, but not give way. And it's a good idea to see if you can distract them somehow - tickle their toes to make them laugh, for example.

Of course, when it isn't a little person, but someone who is very much stronger than everybody else in sight, it is trickier, but I think the same approach is appropriate...

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Richie
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 05:02 PM

The point is that French has a 2 billion dollar interest in oil that would be jeopardized if Saddam was removed from power. Iraq is their main source for oil. I think the French are mainly interest in preserving their oil connection.

-Richie

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 05:09 PM

It wouldn't be jeoparadized, but it could well be destabilized, and that is a very legitimate concern for all of Europe. They get a lot of oil from Iraq.   So are you suggesting that all of Europe should just ignore their own interests in the region, to defer to Bush? That is insane.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Richie
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 05:12 PM

Of course thay're worried because Saddam will torch the oil and kill as many people as he can.

But that's OK- we should just leave people like him alone.

-Richie

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 05:14 PM

OK Richie, it is now obvious that you aren't interested in a serious discussion here. I'm done with your trolling.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 05:39 PM

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle....tuned in twice today and BOTH times they were discussing the effect of the marches. It was YESTERDAY'S story (and not covered at all) so do you think people actually contacted them asking the same question that we've been asking?

Wow.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Richie
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 05:50 PM

Guest,

The problem here is that I am not a troll and represent what could be a majority or at least an equal position in the US.

Since you think a majority postion is a trolling, I feel sorry for you.

I'n not saying I'm right, but I do have the right to my opinion.

-Richie

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:23 PM

It isn't your point of view that is the problem for me Richie. It is your flippant come backs, and your refusal to engage in a discussion in a meaningful way.

No one is trying to prevent you from expressing your opinion. But you have made some wild, trolling/baiting comments that really can't be taken seriously, like this:

"Since you think a majority postion is a trolling, I feel sorry for you."

That isn't engaging in a conversation. That is baiting your opposition, and I ain't fallin' for it.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: harvey andrews
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:24 PM

Doug R you know if you beat up ALL your friends, in the end you end up friendless. France disagrees, Germany disagrees, millions of individuals disagree, so, do you believe in democracy or do you believe that only America can be right? This is a debate, a discussion about incredibly important issues. This is about thought and not reaction. This is about lives. It's not a black and white movie. There's no John Wayne. You boycott French goods if you think that's the answer but what if the rest of the world gradually boycotts you? This has to be discussed on a higher level than "it's my ball!"

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Richie
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:26 PM

Guest,

You have not made any point to discuss. I'd love to discuss a point with you but have to say something, you didn't.

-Richie

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:29 PM

Don't say "only America can be right" PLEASE Harvey!

This isn't about America being right at all, because there are plenty of dissenting voices within the American establishment who are in disagreement with the Bush administration. Hell, there is even dissent within the Bush administration about the right way to go forward.

The complaints of DougR and those who agree with him, is about only the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Ashcroft agenda of the radical right being right.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: artbrooks
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:30 PM

Well, some folks think that the marches were covered adequately and some think that they were not. Personally, I saw schedules, live coverage and post-facto information everywhere I looked, starting about the first of last week and continuing through today, such as here. Perhaps those of you who didn't have the same should complain to your LOCAL media outlets, or to the peanut butter companies and SUV dealers who pay for the news. Do you really think that Dubya and his buddies care what you (or anyone) sees and thinks?

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: harvey andrews
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:33 PM

I stand corrected. It's not America. It's the govt and certain citizens.It's difficult when your being ganged up on to know who you have to hit and who you don't.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:37 PM

Thanks Harvey. I know. These morons who claim we aren't hearing enough pro-war voices are the Limbaugh/O'Reilly brigades, charging in now that there is a crack in the sky letting a single ray of sunshine through to the world. They keep wanting to drag us back into the dark dungeons of their fears of terrorists and Iraqi missiles under the beds.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:44 PM

Back of the French government are the French people, and all the inductions are that they are against this war, so long as there is any way of making sure that Saddam doesn't have these weapons of mass destruction. And the same goes for the German government.

And the same goes for the people in the United Kingdom and Spain and Italy and Poland and the Czech Republic, and virtually all the countries that have governments that are currently lined up with Bush.

And it's not about oil concessions because most of these countries don't have any. It's about countries where the people have had some experience of having wars fought in their territories, and air-raids in their cities. And that carries on a couple of generations.

In some ways we find it easier in this situation to identify with ordinary people in Iraq than we do with ordinary people in America, who have never had to live with that. When I read a story in the paper where a man in Iraq said that when the raids came he'd probably stay in his house rather than go into the shelter, it might have been my mother talking.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:44 PM

Like I've said, if you don't have internet you're not going to get much from CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC or PBS. I watched CNN all day on Saturday and there just wasn't too much coverage and when there was the information was evasive. Instead of saying that a half a million (more like 750,000) were protesting in New York City they used the term "thousands". Now unless I knew better, I would think maybe a few thousand. I wouldn't think "hundred" of thousands.

That is pathetic. If 2,000 pro Bush folks had deomstrated in New York City on Saturday, I'm sure it would have recieved a lot more coverage, just as the 20 or so proBushies received in Washington, D.C. last month. But same deal. A few thousand.... blah, blah, blah... It was a half a million, Herbie, against 20! And the 20 got the same amount of press coverage...

Go figure.

All we are asking for is for the media to, ahhh, tell the friggin' truth.

Oh, that's not in the Bush Plan????

I see...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: harvey andrews
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:46 PM

Amen,McGrath

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: DougR
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 08:01 PM

GUEST: I'll address your question this one time. If you will identify yourself, I'll continue the conversation or debate with you. Otherwise forget it.

The Bush administration is not screaming, yelling or expressing itself in any of the ways you describe in your first paragraph. They are using diplomacy to try to convince France and Germany to hold Iraq to what it is supposed to do! Abide by Resolution 1441! Simple. Instead, those two countries joined by Belgium are merely giving Saddam encouragement to continue the cat and mouse game with the inspectors.

I still think Andy Rooney was on target, and I don't think it is unseemly to remind countries when we have come to their aid that they owe us. Were we to have loaned them money, we would expect to be repaid. It's just that the aid given France in WW2 was in the form of blood. The blood of our service people.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 08:26 PM

Is it true gratitude to reward the persos you helped you be encouraging them to make a terrible mistake?

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: NicoleC
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 08:35 PM

Yeah yeah, we saved France's butt during WWII. And most of Europe. But the US wouldn't exist without the help of the French, so maybe we ought to get off our high horse about WWII, do ya think?

Being allies is not about trading soldiers' lives -- and even if it were, we'd kinda be even with the French after that little ruckus in 1776. The French and the Germans are our friends and allies. Just because they are telling us something we don't want to hear doesn't mean they aren't doing it to try to be helpful.

Yet, every time the UN balks at doing exactly what the US wants, we hear this whining about the UN becoming "irrelevant." The UN was never there to be the US's lackey, it's there to promote the better interests of the *world.*

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 08:35 PM

I just saw the worst case of xenophobic ranting yet--on CNN's Crossfire, where the right wing asshole, who's name isn't important enough to remember, attacking a French journalist with such meanness it took my breath away. Then he (the CNN right wing asshole) started to pile French products on the desk, telling the world that Americans were now going to boycott French goods and destroy their economy.

This hysteria and fear mongering must stop.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: boglion
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 08:41 PM

Long term it is no favour to follow a friend who is making a disastrous mistke.

Don't get us wrong in Europe. We like you Yanks. We like your tv programs, your films, and your fast food has been popular with our kids. I have good friends and even relatives your side of the pond.

What we don't like is when a president appears from nowhere with no track record of understanding the world and attempts to change the way that nations interact with each other.

War is always a disaster. It always causes more problems than it solves. Sometimes, very rarely, it is unavoidable. This is not one of those times. This war will make the world more unstable; Osama will be rubbing his hands as the recruits roll in.

I would like to see a SECRET vote on the Security Council to see just how many of the other 13 vote with the US and the UK if bullying and bribery are not in the equation.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 08:49 PM

No, that wouldn't work.

After a vote on the Security Council which came up with only four countries voting the way Bush wants, and all the rest against, it'd be pretty clear that everyone apart the UK, Spain and Bulgaria had stepped out of line, and they could expect to get punished for it.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 08:50 PM

So. Bush and 'his' men have decided to draw lines in the sand... So. The US gov, with no clear mandate in it's own country, has decided all on it's own, to economically 'punish' governments that do listen and repond to their electorate. Is this a good lesson to teach our childeren? Hmmmmmmmmm?

The American public has loosed a Frankenstein on the world... 'brought to you by...' political indifference and a few well publicized sexual encounters...

Man... have we ever made a big mistake...
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: NicoleC
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 08:59 PM

No, there shouldn't be secret votes on the Sacurity Council. How else would the citizenry be informed of their government's actions? We can't hold our government accountable if we don't know what they did or did not do.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 09:03 PM

There also shouldn't be right wing media whores calling for American boycotts of French and German goods to destroy the economies of France and Germany for disagreeing with George Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST,The Hated Guest
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 11:57 PM

The American public didn't elect Bush. Rehnquist, O'Connor, Thomas, Stevens and that mafia judge did.

Bush has two simple tasks to perform while in the White House.

1) Domestic agenda...destroy America. Do this by wrecking the economy and ramming through Hitlerian legislation.

2) Make America an international pariah. Achieve this by abrogating all treaties in the early part of his term, then, start a phony war which defies logic and insults old allies. Unite the fragmented European Union in the only way it CAN be united (by an outside threat in the form of a rogue U.S.), and set America up as the Iraq of the future.

Bush's actions will result in domestic calamity (which will end up with the U.N. having to 'assist' America), and international calamity (which will end up with the U.N. making peace between the three new spheres of influence...American, European and Asian). Bush is merely an actor in the script written by the organized crime syndicate known as the United Nations.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 11:50 AM

Yo GUEST:

Your comments about the French reminded me of an incident that occured about 3 years ago at WIIY-FM in Baltimore. One of the morning DJ's, whose name I can't remember, went on an anti-French rant and was fired that afternoon. Hmmmmm?

Now the media can't seem to find *enough* right wingers to get up before the microphones and rail against the French! Hmmmmm?

I'm seeing a pattern here. Aren't these the kind of things that precluded WW I and WW II? Hmmmmmm?

(Well, Bobert. Ya' gotta start somewhere...)

And the drum-beat goes on...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 12:58 PM

New York Times, February 18, in an article that says that Bush has finally gone to an idealistic stance at the same time that the 'liberals' are taking a hard look at the consequences of actions:

Finally, Iraq. Mr. Bush and his aides, like Bobby Kennedy, dream things that never were and say why not. Mr. Bush imagines the transformative effect that a democratic, stable and prospering Iraq would have on the entire Arab world.

Maybe. But it would be helpful if he also had nightmares of things that never were, to understand how policies can go wrong. It seems equally possible that invading Iraq will trigger precisely the scenario we fear — Saddam handing out anthrax or even smallpox to terrorists — and that our invasion will lead thousands of young Arabs to join Al Qaeda. Instead of becoming safer, we could be in a more perilous state than ever.

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 06:21 PM

"The corporate grip on opinion in the United States is one of the wonders of the Western World. No First World country has ever managed to eliminate so entirely from its media all objectivity- much less dissent." - Gore Vidal

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 03 - 03:06 AM

NicoleC, you've hurt my feelings. The Brisbane figures were 100,000 (organisers) and 50,000 (police). Biggest political demonstration in Brisbane's history.

... and I hope both figures included rich-joy and myself, because we were there!

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: NicoleC
Date: 19 Feb 03 - 12:21 PM

Sorry, just reporting what was getting reported in the media. Glad to here Sydney and Melbourne didn't get all the glory in Oz!

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 19 Feb 03 - 12:29 PM

Actually the Toronto and Montreal figures were so far off, I wonder where they were gettin their info. Thanks for printin' it Nicole.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: politics: Very disappointed in CNN today
From: Hrothgar
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 05:14 AM

That last guest was me, NicoleC - I hadn't realised my cookie had crumbled.