BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!

Subject: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 02:29 PM

I'm liking the looks of this guy more and more all the time. Anyone think he can actually make it the whole distance?

Here is an article on a speech he will be giving today in Iowa, criticizing both his own party and the Bush administration's plans for Iraq:

Dean Speech

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 03:49 PM

Here's another guy that sounds interestin, Retired General Wesley Clark who ran the Kosovo operation. In an interview, he said that he is thinking of running for President.

"Clark said he's been "traveling all over this country" since he left military service and he is concerned with how the administration has handled longtime allies, like those in Europe.

"This is an administration which really hasn't respected our allies," he said.

"Clark said one thing he learned in the Kosovo campaign is "if you really want allies, you've got to listen to their opinions, you've got to take them seriously, you've got to work with their issues."

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 03:53 PM

I agree he has interesting things to say on foreign policy Ebbie. But he doesn't seem to have much to say on domestic issues, at least among any of the things I've read about him. Admittedly, that isn't much, as it is very difficult to find any decent information about those who are "considering" a run for the Dem nomination who are criticizing the current administration's Iraq, war on terror, or Patriot Act policies.

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: Tiger
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 05:12 PM

Who?

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: NicoleC
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 08:28 PM

Clark seems a non-entity to me. He's not a bad guy, but he's another guy with mostly Republican views who wants to run on a Dem ticket. I thought we had enough of those already! And he doesn't have the name recognition of a Lieberman.

(The article I read said that he didn't think it would be a good idea to challenge Bush for the Repub nomination. Duh!)

I welcome his input and comments during the race, though. Not many candidates are willing to call it like it is, and I think he might be willing to.

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: Mark Clark
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 08:42 PM

I've heard Dean speak and liked him well enough but the night he spoke here, Kerry and Gephardt spoke as well and Kerry was the only speaker to even use the word labor in a sentance.

Yesterday, we heard Dennis Kucinich and really liked what he has to say on every issue. He's the first guy to sound like a leader in 30 years.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 08:50 PM

So Mark, would you mind telling us about Dennis Kucinich? I don't know who he is.

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: Susan A-R
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 09:46 PM

Ooh Ooh!! Dennis Kucinich was mayor of Cleveland when I was in college, and as I recall, he was quite a cool guy. Any Ohio folks have stronger and more recent recollection?

As for Howard Dean, he was Gov here for quite a while, and is pretty arrogant. Picture Doctor combined with politician. I have been surprised at the areas where he has been speaking out lately. Either we taught him something (he never had much use for radical views) or he's finding it politically expedient to use the Vermont image.    The republicanc here liked him a fair amount. He has not been real supportive of attempts to create universal health insurance here. Perhaps he feels that should happen on the federal level, but I'm not sure. I have never felt that he really understood low income or disadvantaged folks much. I'd go for Dennis.

Susan A-R in Vermont

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 09:53 PM

WHHAAAA??? I thought the good arrogant doctor was hawking universal health care as part of his platform, as a resolution to the health insurance crisis in middle class America?

That said, I do want to hear more about Dennis.

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 10:04 PM

OK, I'm working on the Kucinich thing. Here is Rep. Kucinich's website:

http://www.house.gov/kucinich/

And here is 2004 Presidential Candidate Kucinich's website:

http://www.kucinich.net/

And here is the "Draft Kucinich" website:

http://www.draftkucinich.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 10:06 PM

Dennis is the man! Introduced the legislation that would have created a "Department of Peace". But, hey, as a Greenie, Howard Dean is an interesting candidte. I've mentioned him on another thread. Good old fashion progrssive...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: DougR
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 01:02 PM

I think any of the three would make a worthy opponent for GWB. Personally, I'd like to see Dennis get the Demo nod. There would then be a clear philosophical division between the Democrats and Republicans in the next election. Dean would do that too however. Neither of the three are as well known as the democratic front runners (assume there are some) though.


DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: NicoleC
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 01:46 PM

Agreed, Doug. It'd be nice to see an election with a genuine philosphical divide... we haven't one since, maybe... Carter?

I like Dennis. He's a real spitfire, and he'd be a hoot to watch in debates. I don't think he'd make a good prez though, since he's as stubborn and inflexible about his lefty politics as Duyba is on the right. Fun to watch if you happen to agree, but not the best bet for genuine leadership and diplomacy, IMO.

I'm starting to think Dean might have the stuff it takes to be an effective candidate and an effective Prez. Susan may be right about his arrogance and his failure to comprehend the experience of the working poor -- but with a pack of wealthy, spoiled politicians, what can you expect?

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 02:17 PM

Hey, look who I just discovered is running in 2004?

It's Bubba Brewski!

Bubba Brewski For President

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: Mark Clark
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 02:35 PM

My brother the labor leader says DLC stands for Democratic Lap-dogs of Corporations and I tend to agree with him on that. I sure get tired of hearing “New” Democrats argue over who is the most moderate (read conservative).

Dennis Kucinich is definately not a corporate lap-dog. When he became Mayor of Cleveland, he ran on a promise to stop the planned sale of Cleveland's electric utility to private interests. Once in office, the capitalists (a large bank that would benefit from the sale) told him in no uncertain terms that if he didn't follow through with the sale, they would kill Cleveland's credit rating and the fallout from that would kill Kucinich's career.

He kept his campaign promise, the capitalists dropped Cleveland and Kucinich was not reelected. It took him fifteen years to resurect his political career but he did it and has now served, I believe, six terms in the U.S. House of Representatives. He favors protecting the environment, creating a national health system that provides for all citizens and seriously working for peaceful solutions to international problems. He isn't anti-business but insists that economic progress include workers as well as corporations.

Of course he wants the U.S. and the world free from terrorism and is committed to the elimination of terrorism but he doesn't believe WWIII is a necessary step in realizing that goal. He did not vote for the PATRIOT Act and says that most Congressmen who did vote for it did not bother to read it before voting.

He is known as a pro-lifer in every respect. Don't kill people on the battlefield, in prisons or during pregnancy. During a Q&A period here on Sunday, he was pointedly asked about his position on a woman's right to choose. He answered that he believes the U.S. Constitution guarantees a woman's right to choose and he strongly supports the Constitution and a woman's right to choose in the bargain. He added that, as President, he would propose programs to provide birth control, educate young people, and provide economic and community support for women who choose to carry to term but he was emphatic that he would continue to support a woman's right to choose and would appoint judicial candidates whose view of the Constitution includes respect for the right to choose.

The Kucinich links provided by a guest, above, will have more and better information but I figured more people would read this post than click through to the sites.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 04:06 PM

I would like to place in nomination the Congressional Representative from the Seventh District in Washington State, Jim McDermott. Representative McDermott has a long and distinguished record of looking out for the interests of the people, even when it brings him into harsh conflict with his colleagues in Congress and in the White House. He has a conscience, and he is one of the few in Washington, D. C. who have the guts to speak from that conscience—and he is an outspoken opponent of the pending war in Iraq.

At a meeting I attended a few weeks ago, after he spoke, there was a question and answer period. During this time, someone asked him, hopefully, if he had any plans to run for President. McDermott smiled, cleared his throat, mumbled something inaudible, then went on to the next question. The person sitting next to me said, "Well, he didn't say 'no.' I'm going to take that as a hopeful sign!" Since, though, there have been no indications that he might be seeking the nomination. I got the impression that he really doesn't want the job. I consider that to be a mark of someone who is better suited to be President than any of the vast number who are actively seeking the nomination. But were he nominated, he may be willing to accept. I would certainly hope so. I know this man's record, and he is one person I could support wholeheartedly.

His website, where you can check him out thoroughly and also see what he has been doing lately, is HERE. You will note that in the various links on his website, he makes his voting record readily accessible. He is quite frank and open about where he stands and I've never heard him engage in meaningless political double-talk or double-speak.

Respectfully submitted for your serious consideration,

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: NicoleC
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 04:47 PM

You're right, Don, that's an impressive resume, and a voting record that actually coincides with what he says he believes in.

But what would we do with a politician that actually walks the walk instead of just flapping his mouth? :D

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: DougR
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 04:52 PM

Hmmm. McDermitt. The name is familiar. Isn't he one of the self-proclaimed weapons inspectors that traveled to Iraq back in the fall?

Sure, Don, you can count on me!

:>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 05:58 PM

That's the man, Doug. But he didn't go as a "self-proclaimed weapons inspector" as you say. He left weapons inspection to those who's job it is, knowing full well that a politician--even George W. Bush--is not qualified. He awaits the judgement of the qualified inspectors and believes that Bush and his Merry Men should do the same, not go off half-cocked as they seem to be wont to do.

Incidentally, some may be put off by the fact the McDemott is one of the co-sponsors of the legislation to reinstate the draft. This may seem like he is contradicting his own position. But--about that, he says the following:

"I believe that if those who are pushing for war knew that their children might be required to share the burden of that war, there might be a greater willingness to work toward peace and a diplomatic solution. If, despite our best efforts, we end up in armed conflict, then fairness dictates that the sons and daughters of all classes participate."

"I am pleased to be an original co-sponsor of Congressman Rangel's bill," McDermott continues. "If we need to re-instate the draft in order to make the Administration consider the chilling consequences of war, so be it. I hope this will make them realize how important a diplomatic solution really is."

I like the way this man thinks, don't you?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 06:41 PM

US becoming a colonial power: Wesley Clark (From the Times of India)

PTI[ MONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2003 09:08:56 AM ]

WASHINGTON: The United States is well on its way to becoming a colonial power if President George W Bush does go ahead with plans to attack Iraq, a former Nato supreme commander said on Sunday.

General Wesley Clark, a former Nato supreme commander and a potential Democratic candidate for president, told a Meet the Press programme on NBC that Saddam Hussein was "finished" and having gone so far, the US could not change its plans to remove him.

"We are at a turning point in America's history. We are about to embark on an operation that is going to put us in a colonial position in the Middle East following Britain."

It is a huge change for the American people and what this country stands for, he said.

The Bush administration, he said, has not respected its allies and that is why it finds itself without the support of many Nato allies and even in those countries prepared to support the US, public opinion is against the war. Iraq, could have been contained without war, he said.

Clark also warned against a civil war in Iraq after the present regime is removed because of the ethnic and religious divisions in the country--Kurds in the north, Shiites who constitute the majority in the country, and Sunnis who now wield power.

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 06:59 PM

Dennis, as much as I like his views on labor and peace, has vowed to push for a constitutional ammendment to outlaw abortion. Not my guy for the top post.

I'm still a Green but could go Dean.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: Mark Clark
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 09:12 PM

Bobert, I think you'll find that Kucinich has changed his position with respect to the ammendment. And I think you can count on his keeping his campaign promises, even if it hurts—boy would that be a change.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Former Vermont gov Howard Dean for Prez!
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 09:55 PM

Mark:

That's a refreshing change. Thanks. I really like the guy. I like the fact that he sponsored the "Department of Peace" legislation.

And before someone jumps on his fighting with the banks to not forcing Clevelend to sell off its municipally owned power company, the bottom line is that his crusade saved his constituents millions of dollars.

Hmmmmm? This ol' hillbilly and the trusty Wes Ginny slide rule will do some reconsidering.

Ahhhhhh, the boy needs a decent hair dresser. Ought to be no arguement there...

Bobert