BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now

Subject: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 02:45 PM

You know, I have been pretty dismissive of the WWIII scenarios presented in arguments against escalating war in the Middle East. But I really am beginning to wonder if the Bush administration isn't preparing the world surreptitiously for it to "tactically deploy" nuclear weapons against those he has labelled the "Axis of Evil".

Here is an article on the war games in South Korea just announced today by the Bush administration, excerpted from Agence France Presse, and posted at the Common Dreams website here:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0217-05.htm

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 09:46 PM

And AP just announced that this is the North Korean response to the above Bush administration announcement. I'm sure the South Koreans are feeling safer than ever with Uncle Sam "protecting" them now:

North Korea threatens to abandon Korean War armistice
Sang-Hun Choe
Associated Press

Published Feb. 18, 2003 NKOR18
   

SEOUL, South Korea -- North Korea threatened on Tuesday to abandon the 1953 armistice that ended the Korean War, accusing the United States of plotting an attack on the communist state.

A spokesman of the North's Korean People's Army claimed that the United States was building up reinforcements around the Korean Peninsula in preparations to attack the North, said the North's official news agency KCNA.

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 10:09 PM

Like I've said all along, Bush and his boys don't know diddly about foriegn policy. But unlike the guy before, they don't seem to have any interst in learning...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 10:18 PM

Considering that the North Koreans are supposed to have
a) a couple of nuclear bombs,
b) missiles that can reach the west coast, and
c) that, on the great circle route (which ballistic missiles follow), Seattle, the city I live in, is the closest American city to North Korea, I can get a little resentful of Bush's bellicose babblings and posturings. That man doesn't know the meaning of the word "negotiate," and probably couldn't pronounce it if he did.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 10:20 PM

Bush is just a monster. He and his administration just become more and more frightening by the day. I fear this government so much more than I fear Al Qaida, Osama Bin Laden, North Korea, and Saddam Hussein combined.

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 10:50 PM

This political dance is nothing new. The North Koreans have always objected to the military excercises and have previously said we were "building up." In the past we've built up when preparing to defend against and attack by them. Find a N. Korean submarine - build up. Suspect chem/bio weapons - build up. N. Korean president dies - build up. N. Korean general defects - build up. For some reason, these buildups never seemed to get much press. Either that, or we've forgotten. I don't trust Bush, but I don't trust the North Korean government or the press either.

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 11:03 PM

What should be done about the North Korean situation?

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 11:35 AM

In answer to your question Old Guy, I would suggest the following:

A bi-lateral, but conditional non-aggression pact between the US and North Korea. The conditions:

1. Rejoin the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.
2. Halt and dismantle the current nuclear programme under IAEA supervision - This to be completed and verified within a given time limit to which there will be no extention.
3. Sign up to the convention relating to CB weapons.
4. Remove all limitations relating to cross border travel between North and South to normalise relations between the two countries.
5. A comprehensive and guaranteed aid package provided the above conditions are met and maintained.

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: DougR
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 12:12 PM

Sounds like a plan, Teribus.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 12:26 PM

I would go for that but don't you think free elections should be included? Don't they have elections in SK?

I think the time period for compliance should be very short and aid should not flow until they are found to be in compliance.

Do you think there is any possibility that NK would hide their WMDs like Sadam is doing and play games with the inspectors?

If Saddam gets away with it others will follow his lead.

SK and NK did come to an agreement to build a railroad to connect the two so that people could travel. I think it was done without intervention by any other country.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: GUEST,The Hated Guest
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 12:35 PM

All bets are off and all contingency scenarios irrelevant now that Japan has brandished their nukes, folks. The U.S. 'humilitated' them with A-bombs 60 years ago, and they recently revealed they now have 1,200 nukes of their own.

These are the folks who jumped to their deaths in Saipan rather than let the hated Americans touch them. The land of hari-kari. And they are ten years into an incorrectable national depression after being on top of the economic world.

So that's it. The Asian situation will resolve itself. I'm just glad I don't live on the west coast of the U.S., because you KNOW there will be some payback for Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 12:44 PM

Good plan, Teribus. I'm glad we agree on something, Doug. One thing at a time, Old Guy. And ignore the gnome behind the curtain. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 01:00 PM

I trust Japan. They got us and we got them back. There are too many Japanese cars being sold in the US for them to nuke us. It's that simple.

People should heed the remark about the ten year Japanese depression. The US might be headed in the same direction.

Worse case scenario is we let the Asians nuke it out. I hope we have some antimissle missles in case a nuke comes our way. If NK has two they might hurl one at us and one at Japan. I doubt that NK will be able to make any more after a nuclear exchange.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 01:10 PM

There is no such thing as an "anti-missile missile" though god knows, the US does keep trying in vain to get at least one. As if one would do any good to anyone.

Old Guy, it appears to me you don't have much of a grasp on the scientific and technological nuances of the subjects being discussed.

As to "what should be done" about North Korea, the better question is, what should the Bush adminsitration have been doing all along to have prevented this weapons of mass destruction crisis on the Asian continent?

Answer: we never should have ended diplomatic negotiations. The only way Teribus' plan of action could be realized is through, you guessed it, diplomatic negotiations.

The reason why Teribus' plan cannot work (at least for now): the Bush administration refuses to enter into diplomatic negotiations with North Korea. They would rather see the weapons of mass destruction "crisis" (which the Bush administration created and continues to exacerbate, in the case of Iraq and North Korea) be escalated, so they really can fight a war on two fronts. That is the Bush strategy: perpetual war. Keeps the energy and defense contractors happy and fat, and keeps the stupid sheep known as the Bubba voter "supporting their president in wartime". What better re-election strategy is there than waging a perpetual war for perpetual support from enough Bubba voters (male and female) to keep you in office?

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: DougR
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 01:15 PM

Guest: more negativism. Surprise, surprise, surprise!

Old Guy: yes, I agree. Free elections should be included in the mix. And yes, I suppose the NK could play the same game Saddam is playing.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: Mark Clark
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 01:54 PM

“There is no such thing as an "anti-missile missile" though god knows, the US does keep trying in vain to get at least one.”

As I recall, the strategy for “protecting” U.S. targets from foreign missles is to fill the trajectory path with nuclear fire storms so massive and hot that no foreign missles will survive the passage. Ronald Reagan's plan to protect U.S. citizens from the resulting fallout was to have everyone dig a hole, get in the hole and place a door over the top of the hole. Of course now we'll want to seal the gaps with duct tape just to be safe.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 02:37 PM

Folks, let me introduce you to the biggest dog on the porch in that area, one who is going to ensure that North Korea does NOTHING with it's alleged nukes. It's called Red China, and Bush knows exactly what he's doing. China is in the midst of a regime change and has the best trade relations with the US in years. It understands that North Korea is starving and believes that negotiations should involve food aid from the US (which is an excellent idea from our standpoint as it gives us entro into the Hermit Kingdom just as Kim is approaching retirement with no clear successor in sight).

I'm truely sorry for those who get all in a tither over a wiff of nuclear arms ("quick get the plastic sheeting... or was it lead sheeting?... OH God this is so exciting... We can all bend over and kiss each others asses goodbye... etc.). This ain't the one, the pros are in charge and the amateurs have been voted out...

I do hope that someone recalled that Bush senior was an ambassador to China, and still has the old contacts. SO SOLLY, maybe next time...

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 02:53 PM

Oh yeah, trade relations with China are great. We're chummy as hell. And the reason why China remains aligned with Russia and France on the Iraq WMD inspections is...?

And the trade relations will trump the "Taiwan problem" how?

China is playing it's usual snake in the grass games. If they were to intervene on the Korean peninsula, there would be a huge price in some sort of extortion plot that the US would have to pay to keep from losing San Francisco or LA.

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 02:59 PM

How reassuring. I live on the West Coast.

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 03:38 PM

It isn't reassuring at all, it is terrifying as hell. Our own decades of playing the nuclear proliferation game is now coming home to roost. There are nukes all over the world, and there are plenty of desperately whacko regimes like North Korea, itching to use them against us, just to "put the US in it's place" or "give the US some of it's own medicine" or "because we can".

But the pro-nukers would rather we not talk about that. And certainly not the nuclear race currently ongoing between India and Pakistan. But then, I'm guessing most Mudcatters haven't read about India's most recent missile tests...or the US "drug war" chemical gassing of Columbia's rural population.

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 03:59 PM

To the various doomsayers with nothing constructive to say:

Yes. I believe there is such a thing as an anti-missle missle under development and testing. Maybe the NK situation wil speed up the development.

Did negotiations with NK end or was an agreement reached? I think an agreement was reached, we upheld our end and sent them aid, they accepted our aid and did not uphold their end of the agreement.

Would more negotiations work? I say they need to be told that they must do X, Y and Z and it must be verified before aid flows again.

There are some people here that tear any constructive ideas apart, make personal insults, point toward sinister plots by our government and secret agendas. They are defeatists. How can anything come from defeatisim but defeat?

Let's look for a path toward the future that is as good as we can make it. It will not come by avoiding action.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 04:05 PM

I bet you believe in that positive of positives, the tooth fairy too, Old Guy.

Subject: RE: BS: More Bad News Bush Games, in Korea now
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 04:58 PM

White House Not Worried About North Korean Nukes Which Could Hit West Coast of U.S.

Threatened areas voted for Gore.