New London traffic plan - working?

Subject: New London traffic plan - working?
From: Socorro
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 02:45 PM

Just yesterday a friend who's very into hydrogen-cell technology for alternative vehicle fuel, told me this bold plan was being started/tried? today. He didn't know much about the details - can anyone update me? Naturally, here in Calif, it's not considered newsworthy.   Thanks

Subject: RE: New London traffic plan - working?
From: Gareth
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 03:44 PM

Here are the BBC's reports on the matter

Click 'Ere

Gareth

Subject: RE: New London traffic plan - working?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 04:12 PM

Looks good. The pity is that they couldn't build in something to make people pay acording to how rich they were, because as it is it's going to mean fat cats driving around on empty streets because paying £5 a day won't mean a thing to them.

Maybe, when the technology gets a bit more sophisticated, they can work that one in.

But I've not much synmoathy for anyone who drives into the centre of London, apart from people with Orange Cards because of disabilities, for whom it is going to be a bit easier now.

Saturday of course was the first real traffic-free day in Central London. Brilliant.

The great thing is to be able to get back on the buses with some conbfidence of getting where you want to go on time, since the roads won't be clogged up.

Subject: RE: New London traffic plan - working?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 05:13 PM

Such a shame that they've forced so many people onto public transport but have not added a single train to any line, over or underground. No-one will take the bus because they take too long - even at 3 in the morning when traffic is minimal, the bus takes 2 hrs to get from my road to within a mile from my office. From station to station (a 5 min bus journey from home, 3 min walk to office) it's 30 - 35 mins. Sometimes the 2/3 mile from the station to home can take longer than the 8 mile train journey into the centre. I could take my car, it's an hour drive door to door and I get free secure parking at work, but I would have to leave home at 6.00am to avoid a charge, leaving after 6.30pm unless I worked out a circuitous route that takes me round the zone.

It also gives a false impression that 98% of London's schools are on half term this week... that bumps the traffic up by 60% and more. The School Run isn't operating, buses aren't packed with teenagers and there's bound to be a percentage of adults taking time off work to be with their children.

Interesting to see how it works in say, 3 -4 weeks time, and again in May/June when the tourists start getting hit.

LTS

Subject: RE: New London traffic plan - working?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:14 PM

Vehicles exempted include dual fuel cars, electric cars, motorbikes and scooters. Is this what you meant?

LTS

Subject: RE: New London traffic plan - working?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:16 PM

Tourists? Do tourists bring their cars into central London? I don't believe it.

Subject: RE: New London traffic plan - working?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:34 PM

Also exempt - Two Jags Prescott because, despite the petrol guzzling properties, he uses Ministerial Limos. Red Ken uses minicabs, also exempt or subsidised.

If I drove to work, at £5 per day, my wages (less than £15kPA) would be down by over 10%.

LTS

Subject: RE: New London traffic plan - working?
From: Socorro
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:47 PM

Thanks for the link & update. I just love to see new & hopeful things being tried.
My friend is giving a lot of talks on the hydrogen cell technology. He says it's quite workable, technically; the problems are from the social & economic effects that will be caused in building a new supportive infrastructure (repair-shops, gasoline/petrol stations,etc.)and leaving behind the existing one, which supports so many people now.
He also told me the Univ at Warwick is highly involved - I went to their website but couldn't find anything there. Does anyone here know about that aspect of it?

Subject: RE: New London traffic plan - working?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:56 PM

Well Prescott wouldn't miss £5 a day if he had to pay it - as I said, that's the flaw to this. For someone on his money the cost should be a whole lot higher than £5.

Meself I think it'd have been better to ban all private cars in th area, with exeptions for Orange Badges, and some essential jobs with funnybhours (not politicians). The scheme is supposed to cost at least £85 million a year, which isn't far short of what it's supposed to bring in in revenues (though maybe that's after taking out that £85 million from the takings). But that wouldn't have been allowed.

Buses used to be a great way of getting round London. Maybe they will be again. But trolley buses were even better.

Subject: RE: New London traffic plan - working?
From: Gareth
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 01:42 PM

And here is the BBC version of the first day.

Click 'Ere

Subject: RE: New London traffic plan - working?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 04:00 PM

Today's verdict is, OK it works, but small business are reporting a drop in takings by up to 12% and that's just one day... even the bigger shops are being hit - Selfridges quoted a drop in 11% over the same week (1/2 term holidays) last year.

It may cut congestion, it may reduce traffic and thus pollution, but it's the smaller businesses and the lower waged who are going to end up paying big time.... as always.

There's no point in saying Two Jags Prescott wouldn't miss £5 a day - HE DOESN'T PAY IT because ALL ministerial cars are exempt.

LTS

Subject: RE: New London traffic plan - working?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 04:07 PM

I can't see how Selfridgew wold be likely to lose out. Surely noone would drive in to shop there would they? Where would they park?

As it settles in, I think there'll be a fair number of people coming in to shop in Central London from further afield, if it stops being as unpleasant as it has become these last few years.

Subject: RE: New London traffic plan - working?
From: boglion
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 05:32 PM

They've got to do something about pedestrian congestion next. It took me over five hours to walk three miles on Saturday!

That was, of course, from Gower Street to Hyde Park!!

Subject: RE: New London traffic plan - working?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 09:38 PM

Socorro -

The official international Fuel Cell Standards Committee

John

Subject: RE: New London traffic plan - working?
From: Terry K
Date: 19 Feb 03 - 02:14 AM

Lots of stuff has been said against the congestion charge and it may well mean the end of the Mayor's career. But among all that's been said, nobody to my knowledge has put up any viable alternative.

This must mean that those against the charge are in favour of retaining the status quo - in other words, if you're AGAINST the charge, you must be FOR congestion!

But then, I've always thought they'd get a lot more people there if it wasn't so crowded.......

cheers, Terry