Subject: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: BeauDangles Date: 25 Feb 03 - 01:12 PM Hello Catters, The other day I was trying to charm somebody with a really interesting story I had heard once when, like rats from a sinking ship, all of the pertinent details of the story fled my mind and left me die a slow death like Leo DeCaprio in Titanic (but, sadly, not like in real life). I figured there must be somebody here who has heard this story, as it is fairly widespread in folk music circles, and can supply me with the missing details so that the next time I try to tell it I won't be greeted with glazed over eyes and the soft creeking of crickets. Here is what I remember: two people meet in a bar. One is a famous troubadour, and the other claims to be a fledgling songwriter. This greenhorn asks the pro to listen to one of his songs. The old pro, having been thru this too many times to recall, politely refuses. The greenhorn persists, however, and they strike a bargain. The old pro says, "Buy me a beer and I will listen until I finish my beer." The greenie sings his song, the old pro loves it and the rest is folk music history. Here's what I need to know and/or confirm: Wasn't the song "The City of New Orleans"? Wasn't Arlo Guthrie one of the two men? If so, was the the Old Pro or the Greenhorn? If Arlo was the Old Pro, who was the Greenhorn? Your assistance, as always, is greatly appreciated. BeauDangles |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: jeffp Date: 25 Feb 03 - 01:16 PM If the song truly was "City of New Orleans," the greenhorn would have to be Steve Goodman, who wrote it. I have no idea if the story is true, however. |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: catspaw49 Date: 25 Feb 03 - 01:17 PM Well Beau, the story goes like this sorta', maybe........ Steve Goodman, then unknown, approached Arlo after a concert and asked to play him some songs that Arlo might like to record. Arlo apparently used to get this type of request all the time from all sorts of people. Arlo replied, "I tell you what. Buy me a beer and I'll listen for as long as that beer lasts." Goodman bought him the beer and played him "City." Arlo was blown away by the song and, as we all know, had a big hit with it. He now says that the beer that Goodman bought him was the best beer he ever drank! Spaw |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: BeauDangles Date: 25 Feb 03 - 01:22 PM Wow! You guys are great! Thanks 'Spaw! Thanks Jeff! Havn't been around the 'Cat much for a while. Nice to be back. Beau |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: harvey andrews Date: 25 Feb 03 - 04:50 PM Ah, Steve Goodman! How I miss him. |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: BuckMulligan Date: 25 Feb 03 - 04:58 PM The scary thing is that it's been almost 20 years since he left us. Hardly seems possible... |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Art Thieme Date: 25 Feb 03 - 05:20 PM It didn't happen that way, folks. It was at an old second story folk nightcub/bar in Chicago at Belmont and Sheffield in what is now known as North Wrigleyville and/or Lakeview. Richard Harding owned that club---The Quiet Knight. Arlo was very young. After a set he just wanted to relax and have a drink, bur Richard Harding kept pushing at Arlo to sit down and listen to this song a local writer was gonna sing for him. Richard kept on telling Arlo things like, "It's a train song----just like yer ol' man usta do. You gotta hear this." Arlo, just said, "O.k. man, send me a leadsheet etc. etc...." Harding wouldn't let him get away. The song got sung, listened to and recorded by Arlo, was liked by lots o' folks around the world---- and when Steve was near death, Willie Nelson was gonna put it on a record. When told how ill Stevie truly was, he made the song the title of the album 'cause he knew it'd mean more money for the Goodman family. Willie's version went number-one also. Be sure to watch one of these years for CLAY EALS' biography of STEVE GOODMAN. It should be a wonderful read about that good man and those times in Chicago. I am glad I was there for it. Art Thieme |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Art Thieme Date: 25 Feb 03 - 05:24 PM There are other threads with good insights about Steve here at Mudcat. Some of us have chosen to "write our books" on line right here. Art |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Steve Latimer Date: 25 Feb 03 - 05:43 PM Art, Thanks, that's a great story. I like Arlo and Steve, but the Willie part of the story just reminds me of why I'm such a huge fan, not only of his music but the man. It's like when he had become a huge star and he recorded duets and albums with some of the folks whose days in the spotlight had faded, but had supported Willie when he was a fledgling songwriter. Ray Price comes to mind and I believe he did some recording with Farron Young about the same time. He continues to give back. Sorry for the thread creep. |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Hippie Chick Date: 25 Feb 03 - 06:38 PM http://www.arlo.net is Arlo's official website. You can find all sorts of stuff in the article section. |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Mark Cohen Date: 26 Feb 03 - 02:18 AM Trust Art to give us the straight dope. (Now how's THAT for a sixties oxymoron?) Much better the way it really happened...though that's not always the case. The "book" Art was referring to is probably this thread. It includes a post from the aforementioned Clay Eals (who, as it turns out, lives in West Seattle), Steve's incipient biographer. Aloha, Mark |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Joe Offer Date: 26 Feb 03 - 02:44 AM Hmmm. I think we have a problem here. We have one story from Art Thieme, a celebrated Here's a quote from Arlo: "I was playing in a club in Chicago called the Quiet Knight in 1971," he recalls. "The owner, Richard Harding, was a friend of mine. He wanted me to listen to a song by a local buddy of his. I said I didn't want to hear any songs. I was tired and I wanted to go to the hotel. So this little guy comes walking up to the bar and says, `Arlo, I just want to sing you one song. So I answered, `Well, if you buy me a beer, I'll sit here and drink it, and as long as it lasts, you can do whatever you want.' It turned out to be one of the finer beers of my career. The guy was Steve Goodman, and his song, `City of New Orleans,' eventually made the Top 20 when I put it on Hobo's Lullaby"Arlo tells this same story on his More Together Again album, which he recorded in concert with Pete Seeger. There are common elements in the story from both Art and Arlo. In fact, they don't really contradict one another...very much. I think I'll choose to believe both of them. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 26 Feb 03 - 04:56 AM Liam Clancy tells a somewhat similar story about "The Dutchman." |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: MAG Date: 26 Feb 03 - 10:58 AM I've heard Arlo tell that story too -- rule of thumb: embellish the facts as needed to make a good story. |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Mark Clark Date: 26 Feb 03 - 11:13 AM I'd believe Art over Arlo anytime. - Mark |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Rick Fielding Date: 26 Feb 03 - 11:21 AM One night, YEARS AGO, I walked into a little joint in Northern Ontario, and saw a grizzled ol' geezer sittin' in the corner playin a very expensive guitar (I figured he'd won it in a poker game) and singing in a wavery tenor voice that sounded like too much low quality scotch had been available for too many years. I was immediately drawn to the stranger. What was it about him that was so magnetic? Probably the fact that he would have looked EXACTLY like James Dean many years ago, before the fast cars and left-wing politics had gotten to him. "What's that catchy melody yer a singin' Old timer", I asked him? "S'called Hanfullasongs" kid. "What'sit to ya"? Why, I'd like to sing that, and even record it one day, I said to the grey-beard as he wiped the finger-board of his Laskin. He looked off in the distance and said "Many years ago I WON that song in a craps game with a gambler named "Red Rasmussen". Now what's it worth to you son? How 'bout this antiquarian book on "The rivers of North Eastern Smellish County in Ct." I suggested? He grabbed the book outta my hand.....and I grabbed the song outta thin air, and the rest is very obscure history. (Gabby Hayes voice) "Well dad gum it, that's my story and I'm a stickin' to it"! |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Fortunato Date: 26 Feb 03 - 12:38 PM "Red Rasmussen"? I recollect a Jed Rasmarum. 'Was back '43. Me and Jed was riding with Lash LaRue, down Abilene way. He was a tall feller. He has romancing a dancehall gal named Lulu or Linda Lou or Bertha Lou, I can't rightly remember. Bue played a Larivee not a Laskin, I remember. But "Red Rasmussen" doesn't ring a bell. Are you sure you don't meant Kinky Friedman? |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Joe Offer Date: 26 Feb 03 - 12:51 PM Well, Chance, if you look at his picture in Mudcat Photos, you'll think his name should be "Grey" Rasmussen - and my name should be "White" Offer. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Steve Latimer Date: 26 Feb 03 - 12:58 PM |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Fortunato Date: 26 Feb 03 - 01:31 PM Yes, Joe and I would be "That Silver Haired Daddy...". |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 26 Feb 03 - 05:49 PM LOL, Rick: Red was a distant cousin a mine. We never figured he'd amount to a whole lot, being a Rasmussen. And we sure were right. Last I heard of him he was trying to drain sterno through his sock. Hannfulasons sounds kinda Gaelic. Wonder where he found it. Gandalf the Grey.,.. Why not Rasmussen the Grey? Jerry |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Art Thieme Date: 27 Feb 03 - 01:05 AM Folks, I made a typo that is proving to be an embarrassment. In my first post to this thread, I did NOT mean to say I was there, personally, when that stuff went down with "CITY OF NEW ORLEANS". The second sentence in that paragraph, the one that started with, "I was at an old folk nightclub/bar in chicago..." That should've said, "IT" was at an old nightclub/bar in Chicago, the Quiet Knight..."-----That's what I meant to write. I Joe or Kat or another clone could change that, I'd be forever in your debt. Richard Harding was/is a prince of a fellow. When we had a new baby and I walked out of my day job at a Chicago record store, I went to Richard and other venues to try to get some work. I told him I was planning to be a full-time folksinger. He told me there was no work to be had from him, but before a week was through, Mr. Harding called me to stand in for Martin Mull since his flight to Chicago had been cancelled or some reason. After that I opened about 5 week-long shows for folks like Robbie Basho, Tom Paxton, Odetta, Martin, Bogan and Armstrong Bob Gibson etc. etc. It gave me the self confidence (and the pay check) that allowed me to delude myself into thinking I could really make it work after all. Fun times, those. Art Thieme |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Art Thieme Date: 27 Feb 03 - 01:11 AM Stevie told that to Chicago talk-show/interview host, Roy Leonard, at WGN-AM. That's mainly where I got it. There are tapes of that interview all over. Art |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:02 AM Whoa, Art, what a typo! One little letter and the story changes a lot. But that's probably the story of the world. |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Rick Fielding Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:16 AM Well I WAS there the night that Art Thieme invented folk music in Chicago! He just said "I declare folk music invented!" Actually I really first discovered him from one of the Folk Legacy albums on the wall in Sharon Ct. Rick |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:55 AM Fixed your post Art. And it's interesting how many ways this little story gets told. When I posted the "classic" version above, I knew it was less than accurate which is why I said "sorta', maybe." Why that's interesting is that the little change in Art's doesn't really change his story, but in how we look at it.....which is why/how this stuff gets "folk processed" to begin with. I still believe Art's story, but there is room for doubt so others will see it a different way. The folk process continues.......... Spaw |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Art Thieme Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:56 AM Pat, Right on ! Art |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: jeffp Date: 27 Feb 03 - 02:33 PM True or not, it's a grand story! And that's what really counts. This is folklore, after all, innit? |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Mudlark Date: 27 Feb 03 - 04:54 PM And this is what the Mudcat is all about. Gotta love it... |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Arlo Guthrie story? From: Mark Cohen Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:55 PM And if we see a post from "adg" on this thread, it will probably be yet another true version of the real story. By the way, Art, at least your typos are consistent. Did you notice that you said, I Joe or Kat or another clone could change that... Must be the I-talian in you. Aloha, Mark |
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