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Tech: Help-Music software
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Subject: Tech: Help-Music software From: toadfrog Date: 25 Feb 03 - 03:02 PM I would like very much to find: 1. Simple, user-friendly software to create MIDI's, which comes with necessary drivers and if possible, comprehensible documentation. About a year ago, Malcom very generously sent me a Cakewalk, assuring me I would figure it out in a jiffy from HELP. I believe he overrated me; I couldn't even figure out where to start. I would pay actual money for software with minimal bells and whistles that I could understand. I don't need it for writing Sonatas, or scoring for the Post-Wagnerian Orchestra. Just songs, ballads & the like. N.B. my ability to read music is de minimis. 2. Software allowing one to duplicate CD's on a computer (PC with Windows XP loaded). Will be eternally grateful for kindly advice. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: Lady Nancy Date: 25 Feb 03 - 03:12 PM Contact me; I might have just what you are looking for. I don't read music - well, I do but it is like extracting teeth - but the little programme I use is great. Problem is the manual is HUGE! Sorry, don't have CDrw (yet) - it's on the list.. I just record direct onto a casette. Regards Lady Nancy |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: GUEST,Jon Date: 25 Feb 03 - 03:25 PM I use Cakewalk 3 pro and really can't imagine anything easier for entering the dots. It's not so good at lyrics though and is sequencing software. A couple of cheaper programs that may serve your purpose better are Noteworthy Composer and Melody Assistant. I do use NWC as a step towards creating ABC for folkinfo but if I just want to play around with MIDI, much prefer Cakewalk. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: TIA Date: 25 Feb 03 - 03:27 PM For making MIDI's I use MUSE. It's very simple...I'm a near idiot and I started the first hour I had it. It's shareware (nearly free) and very intuitive. NOT a MIDI editor though if that's what you need. Look here: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/Members/laurie.griffiths/ Good Luck, Tim |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: M.Ted Date: 25 Feb 03 - 03:34 PM My guess is self-teaching isn't going to work for you--Not an indictment of your intelligence by any means--it actually can be a fairly complicate effort to create MIDI's--find someone in your area that teaches MIDI basics--most non-folk music music stores do a healthy business in MIDI related stuff, and can connect you to someone who can give you some lessons--and many even offer lessons or classes--also, many community colleges offer classes MIDI and related things-- As to #2--your CD burner should have come with some software-- |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: Bill D Date: 25 Feb 03 - 03:34 PM 'create' midis could mean a couple of things...playing them into a program from a keyboard, or typing/entering them one note at a time. You will get LOTS of suggestions that Noteworthy Composer is good for entering notes, but it is a learning curve to do it fast and accurately. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: MMario Date: 25 Feb 03 - 03:43 PM anvil studio if you play a keyboard might be the ticket as you can user their virtual keyboard and "click to play" the notes. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: GUEST Date: 25 Feb 03 - 04:03 PM I'm not sure which version of Cakewalk Toadfrog has but some do have a "virtual piano". Other input methods are a score and the "piano roll". I don't read music properly but prefer the score. It has the decency to play the note as it is moved on the score making it easy for me to place it correctly if I'm trying to write a tune from my memory. The only problem to me is getting the note lengths right. It also can "record" from a MIDI device. I tried entering from a MIDI keyboard but the result was a mess. I'd imagne most people would need to quantize to turn what they play into something that looks like normal music but when keyboard skills are as bad as mine, it takes longer to manually correct notes on the score than to enter them manually to start with. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: GUEST,Ed Date: 25 Feb 03 - 04:07 PM Jon, I've used cubase in the past but find NWC a far easier way to enter tunes. I've never used cakewalk, what about it makes it easier? Ed |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: GUEST Date: 25 Feb 03 - 04:23 PM Ed, Maybe part of it is it being the first peice of music software I used. You know the what you get used to bit... Much depends on what I want to do. If I'm trying to produce an abc for folkinfo, I am copying from a book and find the keyboard method of entering notes with NWC quite easy and I can probably do it now faster that I can with Cakewalk. On the other hand if I'm putting something together out of my head, I like the Cakewalk drag and drop note onto the score with a mouse. Perhaps NWC does allow dragging a note up and down, hearing where it is on the staff as you move it but I have not found out how to do that. If I had to rely on putting some notes on the score and then playing the section, even something as simple as 3 Blind Mice would take me all day... Jon |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: MMario Date: 25 Feb 03 - 04:24 PM (no - NWC doesn't "sound" the notes when you place them) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: JohnInKansas Date: 25 Feb 03 - 08:23 PM You might want to take a look at this other thread on Music Notation. It's one of the "longest running" threads on the subject. (And one in which I already said lots more than I know.) NWC is very popular at the 'cat, and the abc stuff and mid2txt sets get some use, but if your need is just to make notation and simple midi for your own use - and if you need a "user friendly" simple program, sometimes its better to spend a few bucks and get a commercial program. You'll usually get a decent "user guide" and can get support for questions. While theoretically one can "type to midi" to create midi files directly, it is far simpler to notate the music and let the program make the midi from the notation. Minimal ability to recognize stuff on a score is needed, but you don't need to be a "fluent" reader. If you can copy from a score into the program, it will get you going. Most of the "commercial" (and some freeware) programs can show you a piano keyboard on the screen, and you can click-pick notes off it, or you "click" with the mouse where you want to put a note. Most notation programs allow you to hook a midi instrument - almost always a keyboard - to your PC and play the notes on the keyboard. Of course, to do this your machine has to have a midi input port - and surprisingly, the newer your machine the more likely it doesn't - and you have to have a keyboard. The only notation program I've seen that doesn't make a midi from what you notate is a "freeby" from one of the major commercial houses, and I don't remember the name at the moment. (A "Try it and you'll want one of our better ones.") A year or so ago, we went looking for something simple for SWMBO, and she picked PrintMusic, by Finale. She's been quite happy with it, and has "grown" from it into using NWC and a couple of others for "special purpose stuff," although it remains her principal notation program. I'm not saying it's the "best" - I personally don't like using it - but it sounds as though her skills are comparable to yours. (about $60-$70 US, as I recall) For copying CDs - If you're copying music CDs, or copying songs from CDs to make your own sets, "Nero Burning ROM" would be my choice. If you're using it for data backup, Roxio EzCD is much superior. These are pretty much the "standards" for CD burner software, althouth there are certainly others. Either of these is in the $100 range, so you should look at what you have first. My last new PC came with so much junk I can't identify, that I can't tell what all of the "accessories" are supposed to do, but you may already have a CD burner program, either in one of your "media" programs or in stuff that came with your soundcard. If your machine came with a CD burner installed, you should find at least a "lite" version of one of the above programs. If you installed the burner, it should have come with some kind of appropriate software. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: toadfrog Date: 26 Feb 03 - 12:40 AM Thanks all! I will begin checking the suggestions. With Cakewalk, I could look at that big, impressive keyboard, and at the big staff. I could try to enter notes with the mouse, but nothing seemed to appear. Frustration came at the very lowest, threshold level. And if I plunked the keyboard with the mouse, it seemed unclear how one controls the length of the notes. Actually, I think I would almost always be better off entering notes by hand. John in Kansas: I have been making my own data CD's for a long time, although I found Nero pretty intimidating. After getting a new computer with Windows XP, I found it so much simpler to make data CD's it never occurred to me to reinstall Nero. Then I began copying music CD's, and found that although images of files would appear on the new disk, they would not play. Someone said, there is more to it, you need additional software for that. Is that roughly accurate? I doubt the Nero program will let itself be reinstalled on a second computer; usually the manufacturer is too foxy to let one do that. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: pavane Date: 26 Feb 03 - 02:27 AM You could always try my Shareware program HARMONY, which can create MIDI files. HARMONY can import abc notation, which is the easiest way I have found of entering tunes. It can also add chords automatically. A new version of HARMONY will be available soon, it is currently being tested by some Mudcat volunteers. The current version can be downloaded from my web site at www.greenhedges.com |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: John in Brisbane Date: 26 Feb 03 - 02:54 AM Have to agree with Pavane that abc is a great format for both beginners and the more experienced. If you're one of those musicians who just plays the stuff and doesn't worry too much about what the dots look like (and you play melody on a stringed instrument on guitar, fiddle or banjo etc.), you could always try simple software which allows you to write down which fret you play and on which string you play the note. This then allows you to save your tune as a MIDI file and then play it, edit it, save it and send to others. Bucket o' Tab is now freeware, was originally created for Widows 3.1 (and is very simple for that reason) but works fine on the newer Windows versions. You'll find it easily using Google or a similar search engine. I haven't yet had a chance to try it out. There are probably other ways of helping you out, but I must admit there are lots of things we don't know about needs. Are you intending to copy music from a book, or from a tune in your head, or perhaps you're trying to find a MIDI that may already exist? Best wishes, John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: JohnInKansas Date: 26 Feb 03 - 04:52 AM Toadfrog If your copy of Nero is registered and legal, I think their EULA (End User License Agreement) allows you to transfer it - provided that "it's taken off of the previous machine." It should show you the agreement when you start an install. (The CD doesn't know it's been used before.) It should install, but will probably try to register you by web. Tell it to print the registration and you'll mail it in, if need be - just to shut off the repeated attempts to register you. It usually works. I actually prefer EzCD (Roxio) for data files, because Nero doesn't do a very good job with long file names, but either will work. With either software setup, you must tell it that you're making an audio CD when you fire up the program, or the CD will not play. An audio CD has to be "closed" by writing track information that's needed to play the CD. Once it's "closed" nothing can be added. If you pick "Audio CD" when you open Nero, it will take care of it. A data CD can be "left open" so that you can add more data, but even if it has music files on it, they won't play from the CD in "normal" CD players. I suspect that whatever software you've been using in XP has been writing your CDs as data CDs. There probably is a setup to chose "audio CD," but without knowing more about what you're doing it would be impossible to make any reasonable suggestions. And CakeWalk stumped me too, for a while, until I figured out that it doesn't show any notes on the screen until you "finish" a measure and go to the next one. One reason I use something else. It's usable, once you learn a few of it's idiosyncrasies, but pretty clumsy compared to a decent notation program (IMO). John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: GUEST,Jon Date: 26 Feb 03 - 05:58 AM John in K. What version of Cakewalk was that? I see notes as soon as they placed on the score. The only things I can think of that Cakewalk may be a little strange on is that it auto-completes a bar so you enter one noe and you get rests placed too. That's no problem as long as you realise a note can be placed where a rest is. The snap/fill and trim features on score entry may also cause confusion. I think the best plan is to have the higest note resolution, no trim or fill but to have snap turned on as without it, you can place a note anywhere and most of the time you will probably want to place a note on a beat. I've found the other features quite handy for viewing a MIDI that has may not conform to strict musical notation - you can sometimes get rid of spurious rests and wierd not lengths by playing with these things. I've never played with high end notation software so I can't comment on how it compares. Other things I like about CakeWalk are the ease you can swicth instruments on a channel, adjust volume, pan, etc, even things like gradual tempo changes and pitch bends are not too difficult. I also like Cal. I could for example write a hornpipe in dotted notation and run a script on the tune to give note lenghts closer to those a human might play... I'm not clever enough to take full advantage of Cakewalk and don't try to arrange often enough but I think it is a "serious" tool for anyone who wants to get into the finer points of MIDI. John in B, I can easily imagine that some people do find abc the quickest way of entering tunes. I'd also imagine some would find programs like Skink and Barfly handy as you get a score completed as you add the abc. My own brain doesn't work that way though. CD, Another Nero user here.... Jon |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: GUEST,pavane Date: 26 Feb 03 - 01:47 PM In the new version of HARMONY, to be released soon, you can create an 'Empty' tune containing just bars full of rests. The rests are then edited one at a time to become notes. This is a kind of half-way house between direct input on the score, and import from a different notation, such as abc. Time signature, key and number of bars are selected from a menu, which ensures that the music is properly structured (unless you make a mistake when changing note lengths). I would be interested to hear if this sounds useful. (Of course, it also has the option of generating a random tune as well!) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: JohnInKansas Date: 26 Feb 03 - 03:08 PM Jon - The Cakewalk I tried out in some detail was an old "Cakewalk Home Studio" that came bundled with a cheap keyboard. I don't know what specific version it was, but I'll concede that it was "slightly obsolescent" at the time. My real problem with it was that I had something better at the time, so I didn't spend a lot of time trying to figure it out. For what I did try, it was exceedingly "clunky" compared to the notation program I'd been using, and researching the specs didn't give me the impression that at that time they had changed much. Not long ago, there was a pretty clear division between "midi" programs and "notation" programs, and Cakewalk products were clearly in the midi camp. The lines have blurred somewhat, and newer Cakewalk programs are significantly better at notation - while some of the notation programs have greatly improved their midi capabilities; although I think there still is a difference. If your main purpose is to make midis, and especially if you are making reasonably "complex" (multi voice) midis, then Cakewalk is one of the better choices. I use my software primarily to produce printed notation,>/i> and Cakewalk still is not a best choice (IMO) for that. If you get into the "grey-fringes" of trying to do first class notation and good sounding midi, it depends a lot on which way your brain works; but there's certainly nothing preventing you from using more than one program - and I probably would. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: GUEST,Jon Date: 26 Feb 03 - 03:27 PM Thanks John, that makes a lot of sense to me. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: toadfrog Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:17 AM Thanks a lot all, esp.John in Kansas. Maybe I should start with ABC's. I've worked a bit with ABC's, trying to write down tunes from my head, or after picking them out on a fretboard. The results were truly awful, although I had better luck copying notes already printed. I just bought a Bronson in a Mudcat auction, and it suddenly occurred to me that it was of limited usefulness if I couldn't figure out the tunes. That's why my interest in MIDI's suddenly revived. But after having struggled with the software recommended on the ABC thread, I doubt I could ever figure out how to make a MIDI from an ABC, or vice versa. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: JohnInKansas Date: 28 Feb 03 - 02:58 AM toadfrog Fortunately, we don't all think the same way, or have the same ways of enjoying our music. There's no law says you have to make your own notation or midis if you're not gonna have fun doing it. There's a pretty good chance you can find midis of most of the tunes that are in Bronson (maybe a little different arrangements sometimes), although I can't offhand name the best sites. Maybe someone else can make some suggestions there. The only good reason for these notation and midi tools is to help us enjoy the music - by making it easier to keep track of the tunes. You may want to play with the software some more later, if it helps you solve a problem; but there's no need to worry about it now if it's not your time to get into it right now. Enjoy what you've got. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: Joe Offer Date: 28 Feb 03 - 04:04 AM As for burning CD's - I thought Roxio Easy CD Creator (limited edition) was supposed to be integrated into Windows XP, but I can't find it on my computer. My XP computer came with a DVD burner and software that came with the burner, so maybe the CD Creator software was disabled or hidden on my computer. I wonder if I'll ever burn a DVD with this thing... -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: GUEST,Jon Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:05 AM Toadfrog, we are doing some work on Bronson and Phil Taylor (author of Barfly) has supplied abc files for the first 5 "Childs". You may like to check out this. You can either download the whole files or click on "detail" from detail you should get the listing of the Bronson tunes in the file and be able just to click to play a MIDI. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: MMario Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:06 PM toadfrog - I can supply midi's of the MOST of the first 247 pages or so of that book; and more soon. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: pavane Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:34 PM Toadfrog Making a MIDI from an abc should be trivial. I haven't tried all the other software, but my HARMONY can do it in 2 steps. Open abc file Export MIDI Of course, it only runs under Windows, sorry about that. (But wait for the new release, hopefully this weekend - it is MUCH better than the old one) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: MMario Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:56 PM but he doesn't have the abc's! He has dots. *grin* |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Help-Music software From: JohnInKansas Date: 28 Feb 03 - 01:13 PM Joe Roxio EasyCD came "bundled" in the software package with my Dell laptop. Nero was "bundled" with my Micron desktop (which has a DVD R/RW. Nero was "bundled" with the CD R/W we "aftermarketed" into LiK's machine. I added a newer "retail" Roxio to my desktop. Neither program is "part of" or "integrated with" XP, but if your PC came with a burner it should have some kind of software to run it. The Windows Multimedia I've got at least 8 "startup" icons on the desktop on my new machine that want me to "register my purchase" if I click on them, but won't tell me what they're for unless I do. Am I that interested? One of them is a video editor (and probably burner), and at least a couple of the others are probably "music players" that could have burners in them. Who knows? Easy CD starts from "CreateCD50.exe" on my machine, but that may change with the version you've got. Nero starts from "nero.exe" in at least the 2 different versions we've got installed. A search for those two files (or for Easy CD, some "near misses" like crea*.exe) should tell you if it's installed. If you find one of them, right click it and "send to desktop" to put an icon up - so you can use the icon to find the file again to finish setting up. Check your install CD (may be called a "recovery CD") and look for any separate program install disks in the package that came with the CD. Check for "folders" like "utilities" or "extras" on the install/recovery CD too, if you don't find something on the machine. If you find either Nero or Roxio, you won't have any problem making coasters by the dozen, just like the rest of us do. John |
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