Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?

Subject: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:58 AM

I sure hope somebody can help me. None of my computer icons are showing properly. They are only about half there; doesn't look like the "bar code" thing that sometimes happens with MudCat links. The ones in the Quick Launch (bottom left) are the worst, but also the icons in the Start/Program and others. I have done a Standard Scan (no errors found) and tried to do a Thorough Scan, but it will not complete even if I exit everything. Then, this morning for some strange reason my computer suddenly decided it didn't need Background/Wallpaper. A re boot fixed that, but not the icon thing.

What could be wrong and what can I do? Thanks!

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 12:02 PM

when you said the thorough did not complete...did you turn off the screen saver and energy saver options?

and what version of windows do you have?

also did you or any one else install anything recently?

and check your display properties....something might be off there...

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 12:06 PM

Also, did you turn off your firewall?

Left click on your toolbar, then choose options and see if things are the way you want them to be there, i.e. if you choose Auto Hide, your tool bar will disappear while you *surf* but show up as soon as your mouse moves over that part again.

Also, in My Computer, look at your Display properties.

Hope that helps!

kat

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Amos
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 12:10 PM

It's liekly a mapping problem -- a corruption of the allocation table that maps icons to files. In the Mac world this is resolved by simply rebuilding the database that contains the mappings, called the desktop-database. I assume the equivalent in Wintel is the registry but I can't help with the rebuild. Display options might force it to reestablish the links, as Kat suggests, but I doubt the firewall is germane at all.

A

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 12:10 PM

Yes, I turned off screen saver, wallpaper, pop up stopper etc. Even muted sound; no joy. Thorough scan said it had re started 10 times. Yes, I turned off the monitor when I went to bed. Will look at Display properties. I don't think I have a firewall........

Win ME, IE 5.5

Not installed anything that I know of, but kids...........

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 12:14 PM

go to start run and type in msconfig....then go to launch system restore...

restore your computer to an earlier time....and just choose a point to before it started occurring...

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 12:15 PM

No joy there either.

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 12:17 PM

Sorcha, stupid question, but did you try completely re-booting, as in shutting the whole thing off and turning it on again?

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 12:26 PM

Several times, Jeri. Also, just discovered I have picked up Gator again from somewhere. I have deleted all exept GatorResdll and Gator log. Won't let me delete those.......acess denied. Also running Panicware Pop up stopper. Should I uninstall it?

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 01:03 PM

I'm not sure this is a non MC problem. Sorcha with no buttons to push is a genuine 'cat'atstrophe.

It sounds like everything runs except the icons?

First step in any sudden/unexplained change is Virus Scan. We'll assume you did that - or will immediately.

Most likely cause for loss of icons is corruption of the file(s) desktop.ini, that holds the "configuration settings" for the desktop. Unfortunately, it's a "hidden, system" file that can be a little elusive to track, especially since multiple versions may seem to be in several places. The "real" desktop.ini is a shortcut to entries in the "registry," but you may have several "shortcuts to the shortcut" scattered around - including a "hidden icon" on the desktop.

I was thinking that you use WinXP, but I see that it's ME. I don't have an ME system to look at, but it should be close enough for the following to be applicable.

In most Win versions, you can go to Start-Settings-Control Panel-Add/Remove Programs, and find a "Change Windows" or "add/remove Windows components" selection of one sort or another. (In some Windows versions there may be a "repair windows" button in this path.) This is where you would normally check or uncheck components of Windows if you wanted to make changes. If you don't change anything, but go ahead and run the "next" and "finish" buttons, Windows will often rebuild corrupted .ini files. It's a relatively "safe" thing to do.

If it finds something significant, it may ask for your installation CD/disk(s), but it doesn't usually if you haven't changed anything before you hit the "next" thingy.

A second possible cause for this icon thing could be installation of a driver file that's not "good" on your system. (The most likely thing, even here, is that it corrupted your "ini" file(s) when it installed itself.) It's one of the risks with all of the "Flash," and other "Media" programs that sites are always asking you to install "to enjoy their site." Sometimes you get an old/wrong version component.

XP and Win2K make periodic backups of your registry, so you can do a "system restore" to put an older registry back. I'd suggest going to the Help file that's on your "Start" list and looking at the procedure for your system before proceding with this one. Be aware that it can make anything installed since the registry file was saved quit working. (Open help and search for "system repair" or "system restore" or just "restore.")

The system restore thing is a pretty good "fix," but does carry some risk that recent changes (including any "new" icons you've added) may go away. You may want to give the 'cat a while to see if someone else has "personal experience" with this before running it. I see from one of the posts that crept in while I was looking things up that you may have already run this, but a check with the help file may still give you some clues about getting to "the last good version."

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 01:10 PM

win2k as far as i know does NOT do a system restore...ME and XP do..in fact so far that is the only good reason I have kept ME....

sorry...just being a pain in the arse....will bring lube next time.

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 01:13 PM

Will try John's stuff next. Thanks. If no joy am calling The Geek.

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 01:34 PM

GUEST -

You're sort of right about System Restore in Windows 2K. It uses a whole 'nother terminology, but the facility is there. You do have to log in with administrator privileges, and there are some pretty messy things you can do to the setup, but the normal setup (or at least mine - but am I still normal??)does keep registry backups. It's not necessarily "easy" to get to them and restore them, because of the many ways you can change things in 2K.

In older (Win95, Win98) the simplest "safety net" was to make your own registry backups, by going into regedit and "save as" to put a registry copy (.reg) in a safe place. Then you just "double-click" the backup file to put it back. (Of course the hazard was that you'd forget what that file was for, and double click it to see "what it does" - and "destroy" your registry.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 02:53 PM

Thanks for trying, John, but it was a no go. Called The Geek. He'll be here in about half hour.

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 02:57 PM

Do let us know what the problem is please, Sorcha (assuming GEEK sorts it)

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Amos
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 03:25 PM

Tahhh-baybeee say NUFFIN'....

:>)
A

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 03:52 PM

you know a reformat generally cures these problems too....lol

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 04:02 PM

I don't find anything in ME resources at Mickey$oft that seems to relate to this. There is an old KB article applicable to Win95, Win98, and WinNT4 that suggests corruption of the icon cache.

The problem specifically refered to was related to using the "Tweak UI" utility (a non-Mickey utility), which shouldn't be on your machine.

Another article specific to WinXP and Win2K indicates that the icon cache can be mangled attempted "using a web page that engages Active Desktop" for your wallpaper. The article doesn't make reference to ME, but the reported behaviour is similar.

The suggested fix is to force a rebuild of the icon cache:
Start-Settings-Control Panel-Display-Appearance Tab.
Depending on Win version, you may be able to select "icon" there, or you may need to go to "Advanced" and open the roller to select icon.
Move the icon size roller up (or down) one step, then move it back. When you "Apply" the change, it should "rebuild" the icon cache.

Stilly River Sage reported a somewhat similar sounding problem in Tech: MS Servicepak 3 killed desktop shortcuts. His was related to installation of a "new feature" with a Service Pack installation, and the "fix" he found is in his last post.

His fix was specific to Win2K, so it might not apply to ME, but the KB article Stilly found might be of help to your GEEK (?) if he doesn't have his own immediate fix. (That is, if you've updated your Windows – although I can't find a similar "feature" in any ME.) It's a geek article, so may not have much meaning to real people.

HOW TO: Use the Set Program Access and Defaults Feature in Windows 2000 Service Pack 3, Knowledge Base article 327931.

When faced with problems, it's probably best to use "built-in" tools first, so for future reference (or after GEEK gets you back up) you might want to take a look at: Available Troubleshooters in Windows Millennium Edition, (26 separate utilities)
"To access the troubleshooters in Windows Me Help, click Start, click Help, type troubleshooter in the Search box, and then click Go."

"Trust the guy that has his hands on your equipment. He's got the best chance of making you happy again."

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 04:06 PM

in start....>settings...>active desktop...>customize my desktop...> appearance.... there are settings to set icon sizes, text sizes..etc...have you ever tried changing any of those?...it might make them easier to see and/or control....

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 05:40 PM

Geek came, geek saw, geek doesn't understand......went home to do research.

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 06:04 PM

Bill D.

We're converging, but I'm not sure it's on Sorcha's problem. I beat you by one post on the icon settings - and if the icon cache is scrambled, any change should rebuild it - even if you "change it to what it was."

Great minds, and all that(?)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 06:28 PM

yup....and I'm glad ONE great mind can do the technical details..*grin*...I can poke about and find ways to make it work, without ever knowing exactly what it was that was wrong!

I just 10 minutes ago fixed for the 50th time a problem where 'something' causes a crash, and re-boots in safe mode...*grump*...it requires going to MSconfig and resetting startup parameters, THEN going to control panel and deleting my display adaptor. THen re-booting twice, as Windows re-finds the diaplay adaptor and re-installs it!...takes about 10-12 minutes to go thru all that crap!

I found this trick in a clever search of Usenet, and for the life of me, I cannot repeat it. If I had not learned the trick, I would probably have spent 100s of $$ by now and ended up buying a new PC!

I also found a utility that memorizes my desktop settings, so that it does not take 15 MORE minutes to move my icon back where I want them after Safe Mode destroys the arrangement.

I 'sorta' wish I could set down at Sorcha's machine for a bit and see what I could do. Sometimes being 'the geek' who knows TOO much can be a disadvantage... ;.)) ...it is often just a setting or a tweak that is off....I hope that's all it is for Sorcha...

*enquiring minds WILL want to know, Sorcha...*

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 07:15 PM

Bill D -

If you're crashing because of a bad driver, you need to look for a good one. Of course for some of that ... you like to have on your machine, there probably aren't any good ones. (And I'm not bad-mouthin' ya there, because one of my current problems is finding a driver for some old stuff I want to get onto my new machine.)

Seriously though, if you can find an up to date one, it might solve the problem. It appears you know what's using the one that crashes you...

I've never "lost" a desktop layout, other than getting them moved out of place a little, although I usually just leave them sorted by name. I have resorted to putting a "prefix" character on the icon name on the desktop so that they'll sort to a better location. Then it's just a matter of right-click on the desktop and "arrange icons."

Of course the number of times I've had to use Safe-Mode is somewhere between zero and none. That's for folk who are bold enough to get themselves in serious trouble.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Amos
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 07:59 PM

It do get teeedjious, tho, don't it?


A

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 08:43 PM

While you're waiting for Sorcha's geek to cough up an answer, I'll link you back to this thread for another answer to a recent desktop problem. Hard to tell if they're related, but it wouldn't hurt to go look. Remember that my shortcut to my personal web page icons stopped working? I found the answer. Did Sorcha install Serivice Pack 3 lately?

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 08:46 PM

Er. . .read "my desktop icons for my personal shortcuts" stopped working. The ones I made while visiting web pages I want to go directly to: I click on them and they open a browser window and go there, except for a while they didn't work.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 10:41 PM

No, Sorcha did not install that at all. Finally finished a Thorough Scan and re boot. No joy in Mudville. Geek is coming back in the mroning to re insatll Windows...............oh well. Still no idea what the real problem is. This is ver' weird.

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 10:54 PM

Reinstalling isn't as bad as formatting and starting from scratch. Are you spending a lovely evening making backups of everything you want to keep?

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:06 PM

Stilly -

Surprised you missed it in my so brief and concise postings, but I posted a link to "your" thread (at 4:02 PM) just a little above your last one.

Problem is that Sorcha is using WinME, not 2K, and the updates have "different content." I can't find anything that says the same thing can happen in ME, or even that the 2K SR3 "Access and Defaults" controls that bit you are even installed with ME updates; but her local expert might be able to tie it to her problem. He'd be the only one in a position to "follow the trails" through her machine.

Most of the recent Win versions let you pick any of several "layouts," all the way from "Classic," through "html based," to the evil "Active Desktop," each with its own problems. It's very difficult to do "long-distance" diagnosis. Too many possibilities.

With a little faith that the local GEEK will come back with something, my recommendation would be that she confine her own efforts to "standard" repairs:
Run full Virus Scan.
Do Disk Cleanup (Start-Programs-Accessories-System Tools-Disk Cleanup.
Scan Disk (it's not much used in 2K and XP, is it on the menu in ME?)
If browser opens (apparently it does) clean up Internet Temps and offline content.
Take a look at the built in diagnostic tools. (see KB article linked above). I didn't see any one that looked too promising, but it seldom hurts to step through them, even if you don't find anything to fix.

The icon cache regeneration is not likely to destroy any symptoms that would help later trouble shooting, so is probably safe to try.

I wouldn't worry about attempting to defrag at this point. It's not likely to help, and could make it harder to trace what's going on when the GEEK gets back.

If enough things work to do it, it might be worth spending the time while waiting for the pro to come back to BACK UP AS MUCH DATA AS POSSIBLE - NOW! (Don't forget to Export email and address books if you decide to do some backup.) Unfortunately, backup isn't too practical unless the CD burner works, or you've got at least one of the large ZIP drives working.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:19 PM

Before saying any more I went back to read carefully and find I linked back to what John already discussed extensively. I'll try to keep this one out of the department of redundancy department. :-/

I was doing a search on the common terms used here, and an idea has occurred. Do you regularly check back at the manufacturer's site for upgrades and information? My system is an HP Pavilion 9870, and it came with ME installed. I didn't want ME, but I couldn't run some of the devices without it, so I set up a dual platform. Though they don't like it (they advise against it) they finally provided all of the device drivers (except to play DVD's--I can use it for audio and data only) I needed to run Win2000. I have the Win2000Pro side set as default now. Check out your manufacturer and search on your model and see what is available to upgrade. Before you go looking, know what you have in your system. For me, and hopefully for you, the route to that information is:

Control Panel to System to Hardware to Device Manager

This device list tells you the make and model of all of the stuff in your particular system. Makes it easy to decide what to download and what to ignore.

Also, who made your monitor? It doesn't hurt to check to see if they have any new software to support it.

Hope this helps--maybe you can meet the geek at the door in the morning with a smile and a "no thanks--I did it myself!"

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 03:31 AM

Just by coincidence, when I closed Word a little bit ago, all my icons and my wallpaper disappeared momentarily. They came back after a bit, but the icons looked a little fuzzy - missing some color.

Of course, my first thought was - you can get it from Sorcha just by talking about it! (I mean the icon problem guys, don't get excited.)

What happened in my case was that the temp files that Word had open didn't clear when Word closed (about 45MB worth). Disk Cleanup didn't find them and remove them. The excess 45MB of temps, on top of Windows' normal load, was enough to make the desktop reload "stumble."

Everything back to normal after I manually deleted the temp files that were in the folders where I had been working.

It would be worthwhile to go to root C:\ and search for "*.tmp" and "~*.*" just to be sure this isn't part of the icon problem.

Windows will not allow you to delete a temp file that's being used, so it's safe to try deleting (in Win Explorer) any .tmp that you find on your machine. The bigger problem is that if you select several files, and one of them can't be deleted, it aborts and doesn't delete any of them; so you have to try them one at a time to be sure you get all the "dead" ones.

I got there (this time) by merging 7 documents totalling 218MB all into one doc, so that I could edit it back down to something smaller to use elsewhere (it ended up - for now, at a little under 2MB when I quit). This is one of those "don't try this at home, kids" things. Officially - it says so in Word Help - the maximum document size that Word can handle is 32MB, although I do have several "in process" over 40MB, and a couple near 80MB. - and I write such tight, terse prose(?)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:14 AM

be careful about just reinstalling windows....sometimes it does not overwrite the system properly...and more conflicts can arise.

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:48 AM

I go in every few weeks and do disk cleanup and defragment it. I would think that these would be something that can't hurt and might help, along with the clearing of temporary files (though in theory disk cleanup should delete them without having to do it manually).

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:53 AM

Been there, done all that. Thanks for trying. I usually do all the maintenance stuff twice a week. When I have stumped this guy, I have done something really spectacular. I have also tried System Restore, and it will not work.............Sorry I gave you the disease, John, grin!

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:10 PM

I have to concur with BillD--each of us has exhausted our usual fixes for unusual problems--and consequently would like to sit down at your machine and poke around a bit. But since we're not there, please report to us some of the tricks the geek tries, and then (hopefully) which one acutally works.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:15 PM

I'll try............we are suspecting a corrupted file, but don't know which one. Also, even the icons in Adjust Display (background, etc) are "not all there".

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: MMario
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:16 PM

Dang! I was hoping your GEEK would identify and fix this problem without a reload of the windows; as this is osmething that has occurred on occasion for my users. We've noever found a solution other then reload either.

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 02:02 PM

My last post about the temp files was to point out that, while Disk Cleanup normally gets the temp files, quite a lot of Windows software does have "memory leaks" that can fill the temp space Windows is allowed to use with stuff that Disk Cleanup won't necessarily find. And the maximum temp space is only a small part of the free space on your drive. (My machine, which I overloaded, has 90 GB free space on C:, and 1024 MB RAM, but ran out of usable temp space.)

Most of the temp files that Disk Cleanup might miss will be cleared when you reboot, but occasionally a few are missed even after reboot. Usually the ones that turn into "dead" temps are the ones in the folder with the document or other file you're working on, so they can be scattered anywhere on your drive if you have several "working folders." Most of the other temps are likely to be in Windows System or in Office folders or in one of several "TEMP" folders.

I ran Disk Cleanup immediately when the icons "went fuzzy."

The 45 MB of temps that I manually deleted from my document folder, after Disk Cleanup "missed them," cleared enough space for my desktop to operate normally, as indicated in the previous post.

After posting, a full search of the drive found an additional 60 or 80 MB of temp files that should have closed when I exited Word, but that hadn't (along with quite a lot of other temps stuff that "looked normal.")

A reboot cleared most of the other stuff, but even after the reboot I found a half dozen old-dead-trash temp files from previous tasks - some several weeks old - that had been missed by multiple Disk Cleanup and reboot passes. A couple had survived at least 2 defrags.

Disk Cleanup is the "normal maintenance," and is usually sufficient.
An occasional reboot is "second echelon maintenance," but should be done occasionally just "on principle" or whenever something doesn't "look or feel right."
A manual search for "lost" temp files is sort of "minor surgery," that shouldn't be needed very often; but that is "a good thing to do" anytime there's a significant problem.

Of course, none of this apparently helps with the "Sorcha disease," but may be useful as "general info for future reference."

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 02:04 PM

Format C: /s

Sorry...

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 02:22 PM

This is getting too funny.......he has been back twice this AM--brought a CD compatible to my machine to put my Docs on.......we lost them all! Now he's off again after something else..........at least I saved Kate's school work on a floppy!

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 02:38 PM

Lost them all?

Did you delete before checking to see if the CD was readable?

Did you check the recycle bin to see if you could still get them back?

Ouch.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 02:42 PM

I don't know what happened. He moved them to a CD, created a new folder, etc. and they just disappeared. Not on the CD, new folder empty, not in recycle bin.........worst loss is my MC Address book.

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 02:43 PM

have you tried a search for them?

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 03:11 PM

Aarrggghh. . . I hope this is a localized outbreak!

I visited Symantec to see what is drifting around out there. A lot of nasty stuff. Some now come in the body of the mail, not as attachments.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: fiddler
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 03:12 PM

This sounds tragic!

We Geeks don't always get it right but we do keep trying!

Sounds very strange - all the advicew above sounds sound but then we are talking Microsoft! I would never buy a car form siad company.

Looking forward to having you back on line prperly again soon.

A

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 06:33 PM

Re-Post: not sure why word-wrap failed above:

A new PC Magazine that I just brought in from the mailbox (March 25, 2003) notes (page 70):

Fix Scrambled Desktop Icons. Windows maintains a cache of the images of your Desktop icons, so it doesn't have to extract them from the corresponding program every time. If this cache is too small, Desktop icons may display improperly...

They suggest that your GEEK should look for the Registry Key

HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer
MaxCachedIcons DWORD 4096

The 4096 is the "starting value" they suggest you should put there, but they note that some people may need an even higher value.

After your expert has changed the registry values, you may have to use the "force rebuild" noted above by resetting icons, or they suggest just right-click on the desktop, choose Properties, and click the Appearance tab, select Icon from the pull-down and change the value to one pixel larger, click Apply, then set it back and click OK.

I'd add my own note that any time you make changes to the Registry, it's a good idea to reboot, since Registry state may not be fully saved until you go through a shutdown cycle.

It's possible, even if you ran through the "cache rebuild" there wasn't room to store a valid rebuilt cache.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 06:59 PM

I should probably explain the last post, since I don't know
who might want to poke around with it.

HKLM is a shorthand for HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE.

Start - Run - and type Regedit, hit enter.
Be very careful about making unintended changes here.

Regedit works just like Win Explorer, navigate to the
"Key" you want, in this case

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\ CurrentVersion\Explorer

It is recommended that, with "Explorer" highlighted,
you click on File - Export, and put a copy of this key
somewhere safe, just in case. It should have the file extension .reg automatically, but you need to give it a name.

If the MaxCachedIcons isn't there, you'll need to create it, using Edit - New. Note that after you create the "KEY" you should also use the Edit-New clicks to create the DWORD Value.

When you're done, you need to save the changes, before you quit regedit. It's suggested you reboot after you close regedit.

If something comes back messed up, you can restore, the key you saved by simply finding it with Win Explorer and double-clicking it. This will not remove a KEY that you added after the save, so you have to go back and hand-edit to remove the new one if it's messed up.
If there is no KEY defined in the Registry, there ,is a default value for the maximum space the cache is allowed to use. You add the key with a larger value to permit Windows to use more space.

Ask a GEEK, if uncertain, although Registry changes are sort of a fact of life. Nothing to be, afraid of, but do proceed cautiously and methodically.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 07:03 PM

i'd like to mention that before making ANY changes in your registry back it up....

you click on the registry button in the upper left corner then export....

save it to your desktop....

just type in backup or whatever you feel like in file name and save

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 07:19 PM

It's well to note that you can save the whole registry using the export, and that you can save individual keys as noted. It's always well to have a backup.

The biggest problem with the exported backup is that it will never remove anything. It will put back what you had, but it won't erase any new mistakes (new keys) you may have made.

Should also note that everything in the Registry IS CASE SENSITIVE. If you type upper/lower case where it should be the other, it's broken. A key also cannot have spaces. If the example shows no space, DON'T PUT ONE IN just 'cause it looks nicer. You have to "spell" everything exactly right.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: fiddler
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 07:50 PM

THIS IS GETTING JUST LIKE WORK.

Looking at Sorchas Email and problem the time spent on it probably justifies

Finding the Data backing it up
Rebuilding the disk!
I hate doing this as you never know what the problem was but where do you draw the line between Geek and practicalities - Life etc.

I've been there all week with Hp printers and W2k - we don't have this option or beleive me I would have used it!!!!

Meanwhile sorcha has become a rare but praps not endangerd species!!!

A
XX
A
XX

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 07:56 PM

good grief!....what a mess since I last was here!

one thing that EVEN geeks should know...you COPY files, not move them...then you triple check to be sure they are where you want them..THEN you delete.(yeah, yeah....now he mentions it!)

My PC now & then seems to hiccup and delete/rewrite all the icons, as if it were a temporary memory cleaning..it is a slight nuisance, but it never harmed any.

Sorcha...in the original post you said your icons were 'only half there'....did that mean fuzzy, or just 'top' half...or something else?

can you right click on an icon and get a list with 'properties' at the bottom? On my machine, this allows you to click 'properties', which gets a screen with 'change icon' as one option...if it gives you an easy choice of other icons, it might be a useful test to see if changing one helps. (I have all sorts of 'different' icons, and mess with them regularly, just to please myself).....

I ask this because all sorts of trys are better than just reinstalling Windows as a 'catch-all' fix. As you see, too many things can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong,go wrong,.............

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 07:58 PM

fiddler -

Agreed that sometimes it's easier to start over, but the big problem is with backing up. You always find something that you forgot.
Export email
Export address books
Export web favorites
Save .doc (oops, did you for get .dot)
Save .xls (remember templates there too)
Did you get the favorite macros?
etc.

Windows help files have hundreds of pages on how to back up. But there is NO ENTRY for how to restore anything in any of them.

Feeling confident?

Besides, we like messin' with Sorcha.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: fiddler
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 07:49 AM

LOL - Like it never thought about how to restore - Always just do it bu tthen I've been a geek for 10 years and now I am a Geeks manager!!!

Does that make me a super Geek!!!

As for the last comment

Can anyone blame you!

She's gonna go mad!!!!

a

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 04:32 PM

Mickey$oft got a particular egg in the face with the release of Windows XP. The same day as the "official" release they posted a rather large set of "fixes." My recollection is that it was 13 separate fixes, totalling some 20 MB.

Each of the fixes included a warning that you should backup your system before installing the fix, and included detailed instructions on how to do so.

A subsequent release admitted that the backup didn't work, and you could not restore anything from it. So far as I know, that's the first (and perhaps only) time the word "restore" has been seen in a Mickey$oft publication.

As a "typical" example, the Win2K Pro Resource Kit includes 87 index entries for "backup." Since it's also available on CD, it was pretty easy to confirm that "restore," "recover," and "replace" do not appear in its 1764 pages.

Mickey gives detailed instructions for backing up email from Outlook and Outlook Express, that say you can just copy the folders after you've "compacted" them. They do not ever say that you need to copy the "index" folder and keep it with them. The "import" function you have to assume you would use to get them back will often not be able to recover them without the index folder. (There's a workaround, but you have to invent it yourself.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 05:28 PM

Bill, he did copy them! End result, I am down at the cop shop---my computer took a ride to the Nut House. Don't know when I'll get it back or if he can salvage the Docs. He thinks he can; if not maybe I'll call the FBI.......................

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 06:38 PM

?? I have to admit, I don't understand from your post what he actually did with the files/docs...simple copying can't erase them....but anyway, all I can offer now is sympathy and good wishes.

Yeah, there ARE companies that can recover almost anything....but they don't work cheap

John...your post confirms my one experience trying to backup a drive and then restore it....the mind boggles at discovering there is no way to USE the backup easily via M$ utilities. I just saw a post about this today in a usenet group. I am following it to see what I can learn about doing a complete, safe backup. (I know there are simple daily/weekly file backups one can do to preserve everyday data...I just want to know 'how' to do the more heavy-duty things for emergency reference.)

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 06:42 PM

Sorcha (and Bill D.)

There are several pretty good programs for "unerasing" files, even after they're cleared from the trash bin. The problem is that it must be done before anything new is written to the drive. (And if you have to install the program after you've lost something, the installation may destroy some.)

If your techie has one of these programs, he may be able to get quite a lot off your drive, even if they were "deleted," although it's seldom 100%.

I'm guessing, but it's likely the "lossage" is probably related to trying to copy too many files at once. Windows Explorer has a "published limit" of 2GB as the "largest file" it can copy. That's pretty big, but if you're copying many files at the same time, the limit is somewhat (unknown) smaller, probably depending on both your RAM and temp file allocation and usage. Since it's likely the temp space (which includes caches) was "overdrawn" - the cause of the original problem(?) - the copy operation may have just puked due to lack of resources.

The icon "redraw" (Bill) happens fairly often, since the icons have to be in RAM to be drawn on the desktop. If the icon files have been "paged" out of RAM while you're doing something else - or if something else needs the "page-space" where they're currently held, they will be moved within/into RAM and have to be "reposted" to the desktop.

My inclination (remember this is "long-range" diagnosis) is to believe that the original problem is an "overstuffed" icon cache. Rebuilding the icons didn't work (maybe) because Windows will try to write the new cache pictures before it erases the old ones, and if the cache is already at the limit Windows allows, there won't be room to do the rebuild.

I suspect that the icon cache holds much more than the desktop icons, since "icons" are all over the machine. Win Explorer insists on putting an icon on each file, to show the filetype, and it loads the icons for all registered filetypes at boot. Cached thumbnails in directories that display them for graphic files can eat a lot of space, and may be stored in the icon cache. If the thumbnails are cached as icons(?) downloading a few image files could have crossed the "available space" line and caused the corruption.

Sorcha - If your techie wants to look at the article I referenced above on adding the MaxCachedIcons key, it should be posted at ZD.com soon. It wasn't up yet when I looked previously. The article is in the "Solutions" section of PC Magazine, titled "Registry Tweaks for Better Computing," by Neil J. Rubenking, starting on page 68 of the March 25, 2003 issue.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Bernard
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 06:58 PM

Mmmm... over here 'cop shop' means 'police station'!!

Regarding back-ups of e-mails in Outlook and Outlook Express - it's a lot easier than you'd think!!

Outlook has an 'import and export' option under 'file'. Simply highlight a folder, press 'export', select 'export to a file', and select 'personal folder file (.pst)'.

You will then be shown the list of folders for confirmation - be sure to tick the 'include subfolders' box if appropriate.

Next you will be prompted for a filename, but it doesn't have to be an existing file despite how things appear in the prompts - just make sure you put it in an easily found folder! You also have the choice of what to do about duplicates, which is irrelevant if this is the first time you've run the export.

When asked what kind of encryption you require, select 'no encryption' to be sure you can read the file later on another system!

Before you can copy the back-up file, you must close Outlook or else you will be denied access. You should also close the personal folders you have created if you intend to delete the file afterwards, or Outlook will grumble!!

One other word of warning - do the back-up a folder at a time, or your computer could lock up through lack of memory! You can add folders to an existing .pst file as often as you like - it's my preferred back-up method.

Restoration is easy - use import!


Outlook Express is more straightforward... to make life easier, start by creating a folder called 'OE store folder' on your 'C:' drive. Next, open Outlook Express, and select 'tools' - 'options' - 'maintenance'.

About two thirds of the way down the right hand side of the maintenance panel is the 'store folder' button. Press it, and you can change the location of your store folder to the folder you just created.

Close Outlook Express and reopen it, and your e-mails will be moved to the new, easy to find folder! You can copy (NOT MOVE!) this folder to a CD, or other suitable back-up location.

To restore the store folder,put the folder where you can easily find it, and use 'import', 'messages' and the appropriate program (if you are using OE5 the OE6 import works!). 'Export' cannot be used to create the back-up because OE doesn't use .pst files... silly, innit?!

If you need to discuss this in more depth, e-mail me, as I'm not logged on to Mudcat very often these days.


TTFN

B

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 08:08 PM

"I suspect that the icon cache holds much more than the desktop icons, since "icons" are all over the machine"

hmmm...I remember someone in a newsgroup suggesting that one make copies of all the icons one uses for the desktop in one folder, then point Windows there to quickly load them. Faster for Windows, and perhaps would lighten RAM load...?? (it is a resonably easy thing to do once you see how it works)

In my case this would take a lot of editing, but I already have done minor bits of this, and just need to keep good records of what I have done.....

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 08:08 PM

Bernard -

Yes. Been there. Done that.

The thing missing from your instructions, and from Mickey'$, is that, at least for older versions of Outlook and Outlook Express, you shouldn't try to "archive" a single folder elsewhere on your machine, since to "import" it, an index file must be present with the archive or a folder with the same name must already exist to import into. They never tell you you need to save the index.

One of the reasons for the "compact folders" operation in OE is that it is what creates the index, so you may not have one if you don't include that step.

Newer versions apparently don't have the same problem, although I've not done any large-scale archiving with the export/import method since upgrading.

There also is no particular problem if you import back into the same folder structure as the one you archived from - so many people have never seen the problem, and I suspect that may be why it's worked well for you.

If, however, you archive all the email relating to a particular project, and remove that folder from OE, import will often fail without the index (at least for versions through OE5).

The workaround is to create a folder with the "target" name in OE before you try to import. (You can also rename the archive file to agree with an existing folder in OE.) It usually works, but not always.

Another "difficulty" with the standard export/import is that, since the folders are saved in database format (.dbx), you can't backup and restore single messages easily that way, so if I want the message about Chapter 17 on project 57-629X4, I would have to import the whole project folder to get one message (unless I was really clever and made hundreds of folders before exporting. To import a single message, it must be in a separate folder when it's exported.

A typical project for us, like the "dummy" one above, may contain 3 or 4 thousand email messages, so even if you have disk space enough to import, you've still got to go through everything to identify the one you want.

OE does allow a "save as" of an individual message file, and puts it in a .eml format that can be individually opened (in OE) just by double-clicking it - and you can save it anywhere you want to keep your archive. You do have to save each message individually, and the .eml format takes a lot more disk space than the .dbx, but the individual messages are individually recoverable (and can be copied individually back into an OE folder, if you need to.) The default filename is the subject line from the message, and if you manually append a date-time and sender id to the front end of the filename, they all come up in order when you list them in Win Explorer.

But the real point is - Mickey makes a big deal out of backing up, but their instructions are really not complete, AND they don't seem to realise that the only reason for backing up is that you might want to restore something. Their computers never actually crash(?).

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 08:21 PM

Apologies to all. I didn't notice my cookie had crumbled, so GUEST at 01 Mar 03 - 06:42 PM was me.

Bill D. -

The advice about putting all the icons in one folder dates back to Win 3.0, and was possibly of some use there, but I'm afraid it's in the "urban legend" category now. Since Windows puts all the icons it's using in the icon cache, it just doubles the "icon storage space" used on your machine to no good purpose.

In addition, many programs use "internal icons" that have the same .ico file extension, and if you move them out of the folder where the program "lives," the program may not run properly.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: fiddler
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 09:36 PM

Good luck girl!

If I can help I will!

Send details via emial if I cna help form 4500 miles away no probs.

I'ver one to sort out over there tomorrow! Pals Kids can't get on web 2 do schoolwork (and chat rooms etc.)

beleive in your geek - Microsh*te is a law to itself but there aint no alternative and no one knows all the problems or answers but we all (by the looks of it) wishe you well.

AND

Are really glad its not us ------- Yet

A
ZZZZZ

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:07 PM

*shaking my head in wonder at it all*.....

not easy to know even where to FIND answers...or how to recognize a good answer if it bites you on the butt!

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:22 PM

Bill D -

The downfall of American technology (and maybe that of some others too) is coming, because the surge in "management" technology has replaced most of the old farts that actually could do something (with "cheaper" new grads mostly) faster than the old hands could mentor the youngsters.

It's not that the new guys think they know everything. It's that the "cut a corner/save a nickle/get to market" management mentality prevents any product from ever being "finished."

Once upon a time, believe it or not, when you designed a tool, you made it with the idea that it had to perform "an intended function." Now the only thing the techs are allowed to do is "make it cheaper." (And I learned this in the airplane design business - make you feel warm and fuzzy????)

The difficulty is in trying to make everything warm and fuzzy for people who really aren't prepared for the realities of what it takes to make something work. As a "seller" of software, you can't publish full documentation, because (your management is afraid) it might scare away some users and you'd lose a sale.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 12:13 AM

Geez, Louise, but this has gotten to be a tangle. I am going to go back up my stuff this evening, just one general priciples. Everything into WinZip and onto a CD and into a file box in a desk. Hope the operation stays as simple as that!

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 05:28 AM

Stilly -

That's why we finally added a CD burner a few months ago. Now we have about 150 CDs of backup, and we're wondering how we're going to make an index so we can find anything on them.

(Of course, we do know how. It's really a matter of when.)

Actually, a CD will only hold about 6 months worth of email (our critical backup) when we've got active projects going on, so backing up about once a month doesn't produce a lot of duplication. The older stuff gets dropped out of the backups because it just won't fit.

The problem here has made me wonder if I should get some better "unerase" software on the machine "just in case," but I think that for now I'll continue to rely on dual hard drives and regular backup burns.

I've found the external (USB 2.1) hard drive I added recently gives me a great warm fuzzy feeling of security. It's the same size as the main drive in my PC, so I could set it up as a RAID mirror, but so far I haven't bothered. I keep all my working documents in ONE folder, and anything outside that folder is "reinstallable software."

A reasonably quick copy makes sure everything gets duplicated on the external, and the CDs are mostly for the stuff I want to archive before I clean it off the machine.

And I don't have to sort stuff and pick what I need to take along if I take off with the laptop. Just unhook the external and put it in the bag.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: fiddler
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 06:33 AM

You can't beat backups

But even they can let you down.

back to the music section

Tarra

A

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 05:00 PM

Thanks for trying guys. Still don't have my 'puter back and yes, Bernard, that's where I'm at. Hubby is one of those copper thingies.

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 10:12 AM

I use JetDefrag which reorganises locations for speed, but on switch-on it takes forever to load desktop icons, if they are replaced with a std win icon you may have lost the dll that sorts this or a folderfull of icons.

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 12:00 PM

Sorcha –

If your techie is still puzzled, you may want to inform him that the MaxCachedIcons key change I described from PC Magazine is an "officially documented Microsoft fix." Mickey'$ Knowledgebase articles are rather "terse," as in "we don't really like to have anyone know this is a problem," but I believe you will find your difficulty described in Knowledge Base article:

132668: Icons Randomly Change to Different Icons

And in article:

133733: Icons Displayed Incorrectly in Control Panel

Default cache size is 500 – if no key is present in the registry. The maximum size is 4096 officially, although a couple of "bootleg" sites suggest it can be set higher. The DWORD value 4096 should be more room than you're likely to need.

These are fairly old articles, and possibly the reason they were so hard to find is that Mickey'$ search engine looks in "recent" hit lists first. Judging by the number of hits in the outside world, it's actually a pretty "popular" problem, although I'd not seen it before.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 01:34 PM

I'm baaaack! He said it was a "file allocation problem"......whatever. I have my buttons AND all my Docs back!! Whooopee!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 01:49 PM

Yea!! Welcome back, Sorcha!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 05:32 PM

FAT corruption! (John will be along monentarily to explain that..*grin*)...but hooray, anyway!

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 06:07 PM

Bill -

Are ya' talkin' 'bout the File Allocation Table, or ya' bad mouthin' my ol' lady.

Depends a little on which file system you're using. There's plain ol' FAT, FAT32, and NTFS, and they work a little differently. I'm not sure whether WinME can use NTFS or not. (And floppy's use FAT12(?)).

Basically, it's just the "index" that keeps track of where all the "root" files and folders are on the drive. If any folder gets too badly messed up the FAT can get fouled. There's supposed to be a duplicate copy that you can copy in, but it takes some "specialized doings," and often if one's fouled the other is too.

The remaining question is "how did it happen, and what's going to keep it from happening again?" We'll hope techie took care of that too.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 06:25 PM

He says nothing to keep it from happening again......and now it will freeze up at the drop of a hat.......something is still wrong. Oh, got all the files back except my MudCat snail mail addys..... :(

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 07:43 PM

Sorcha -

If he hasn't already looked at the KB articles on the cache size assignment (03 Mar 03 - 12:00 PM ), you might print the thread - or give him the links. The symptoms described aren't identical to your description, but I found quite a few references to "the fix" (28 Feb 03 - 06:59 PM ) to the icon cache size elsewhere on the web too.

There isn't too much specific info on different "symptoms," but a lot of people seem to be having problems - similar, if not identical, to yours - that go away with this change.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 12:16 AM

Back up what you can ASAP! Don't want to risk really losing it the next time!

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 09:35 PM

Hey, John!

I seem to be completely locked out of one of my platforms. It isn't the default platform, but it is where the Partition Magic program lives. It's the ME side, the original software and programs that came with the computer. I can't get in to put in the new virus definitions, though I did manage to bring it up in safe mode and ran a scan with what is in there. Nothing turned up. It won't recognize the DSL connection in the safe mode, for some reason, so I couldn't log on from there to download the definitions. I did defrag (from the Win2000 side--as you've remarked before, that Win2000 is pretty aware of what is going on in the computer!) and it was a mess, but it is neat now and I'm still not getting in.

I have explored various backup methods, and I'm down to my old ZipDrive backup to backup the Win2000 stuff, using many disks, then I'll burn them over to a CD. Once I have that, I shudder at the thought of reinstalling the stuff because it means redoing the partitions, putting all of the backup files in, and losing all that is in the ME side that has been installed (I haven't backed it up in a while).

Any thoughts? I'm afraid the kids must have done something and brought in a virus or worm. Could I make some sort of disk of the Antivirus stuff and bring up the ME in the safe mode again then run a scan from the CD? Antivirus runs in both platforms. If I could get it online, I could find a possible fix from symantec. But if I don't know what's wrong, I don't know what fix to look for. Arrggh! Again, any thoughts? My Win2000 side works fine for now.

These 250 meg zip disks are only holding about 2.5% of the backup material at any one time. I'm going to have to copy them over to a CD and reuse them, I don't have enough for what this is going to call for. I can zip probably WinZip them first, and save space that way.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 10:20 PM

Stilly -

If you have your installation disks for your WinME and Win2000 there is probably little use in backing up the program stuff - or even if you don't have them. Most of it will probably not function just by copying back when you get things sorted out.

There are procedures available in the Microsoft Knowledge Base for making a backup that will work to transfer most of the operating systems to a new machine; but it requires a whole lot more than just copying the stuff.

Back up your data, and rely on original installation CDs for the system stuff, if at all possible.

If you have your Norton CD, it should allow you to make a "Norton Startup" disk. Norton recommends that you make one to scan for viruses before you begin the Norton installation, so it should be easy to do. I'm not sure, offhand, whether you can copy your new Win2K virus definitions to the startup disk, but the Norton Installation instructions should tell you - if you've got the disk.

Assuming you've got Norton on both Op Systems, did you check to make sure that your definition upgrade lease hasn't expired on one of the systems. It's pretty easy to get two different dates registered when you use two systems. If you can open Norton, the main window should show an expiration date.

Assuming you've got installation disks, the only thing you need to backup is the stuff you've produced. The main thing is to get everything that you can't get from the installation packs.

Of course documents (.doc), but don't forget templates (.dot). Spreadsheet worksheets and worksheet templates. Email and Address Book often get forgotten. Music: scores, midis, waves, etc. Photos and Scans - .tif, .jpg, .bmp, and whatever else you've used. Browser favorites.

If you have to reinstall the systems, you'll want to go get all of those updates you've been keeping up with; but most of the early ones have been rolled into later stuff - so it shouldn't be as painful as if you had to go through everything you've done before.

Questions?

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 12:59 AM

John,

Dumb luck had me poking around (I finally got the system to boot up) and I logged on as a new user. It is working fine now--but I don't know what happened for the other user (default?) that I used to be. I've been down several paths tonight, none seem to have worked any better than this.

For some reason I can't make Windows backup my entire hard disk (the Win2000 side) because it keeps saying it has run out of space. But I've made sure to put that file on a part of the disk with TONS of space. I guess it will be a piecemeal operation to save it all and compress it.

On the plus side, when I'm working over in the ME side I can use the whole functionality of the computer (as it was intended). I have a small window with a movie playing as I work on email and such. I can't do that with Win2000 (though I haven't tested my new Nero program to see if it will play DVDs--it will record them). This evening it is a bit of fluff I bought for my kids--Romancing the Stone.

SRS (limping along. . .)

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 01:31 AM

Stilly -

If it comes to that, the Administrator password is usually saved in a "secret" little cache in CMOS memory. On most computers, you can pull the battery out and apply (or move) a jumper to discharge the CMOS so that you can start over, although it's pretty messy to do so. Worst case, you might have to reload the BIOS (on some machines), which is not something you want to have to do.

DON'T try looking for this unless it's in your operating manual for your PC, or you contact the BIOS mfr for instructions. The wrong jumper location can make your PC into a doorstop. But it is nice to know that it can (maybe) be done when everything else fails.

If you're able to log on with Admin authority, you can probably remove the old user; although I don't know enough about ME to advise on that, and I don't have one to look at.

Glad to hear you're up. DVD is another thing I haven't messed with. In fact, I only own one disk - would you believe Cat Balou? I know it plays on my new machine, but I haven't bothered to look at which (of about a half-dozen loaded by my mfr) media players is turning it on.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 02:07 AM

John,

Cat Ballou is a great movie! I have competing programs for viewing DVDs (who knows why, and I can't get any of them to migrate for free to the other side!). If I start WinDVD (seems to work best) then put the disk in, it seems to work better. Just putting the disk in has all of the programs trying to start up on their own.

I do have the administrator role on this computer. I used the same passwords to set up this new user as I have for the computer administrator. In that sense Windows seems pretty dumb. Using the same names over and over. . .

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Non MC Trouble-Help?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 02:50 AM

I suspect WinME is kinda quirky about the passwords like Win2K and XP. If you don't enter a password the first time you turn them on, then every user is an Administrator - sort of - although occasionally if you add another user they'll try to make it a serf-level account.

It's better to have a working Admin account, and do your routine stuff at a lower level; but it can be a real hassle if you lose the password...

I'm told that Win2K can even be setup to distinguish between an upper case typed with the shift key and one typed with CapsLock on - and to tell the difference between numbers off the top row of the keyboard and those on the NumPad. MSN has cautioned us not to use CapsLock when entering passwords - they say it makes a difference to their system.

But not as bad as one 'NIX system I was on a few years ago, where you could include a backspace in your password - and you had to type the same letter and "erase" it or the password bounced.

John