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Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden
Related threads:
Tune Add: Gentle Maiden (8)
Lyr Req: Gentle Maiden / Child of Dreamland (4)
In Mudcat MIDIs:
The Gentle Maiden
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Subject: The Gentle Maiden From: Date: 12 Jul 98 - 12:03 AM I'm looking for the lyrics to a tradition Celtic song called The Gentle Maiden. |
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Subject: RE: The Gentle Maiden From: Bob Bolton Date: 12 Jul 98 - 07:19 PM G'day (whoever), My Mancunian Grandfather would not appreciate the octopus tag of celtic attaching itself to what he thought was a good local song. Reagrds, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: The Gentle Maiden From: Mick Lowe Date: 12 Jul 98 - 07:35 PM Bob, Being a perfidious Albion boy through and through myself, I have found to turn the other cheek to what is described as Irish music. Now don't get me wrong anyone else reading this link. I live for "Irish" music, but 95% of it is stolen from anywhere but the emerald isle. The only "true" Irish music is carolyn(I've probably mispelt that). Most Irish nigs, reels and especially hornpipes are "stolen" from other sources, namely English/Scots. But then again isin't that the same for all music. Without the contribution of UK/African/French music, the US would never have produced the blues, leading to Rock&Roll, to back to the UK for the Beatles etc. At the end of the day, who cares where it came from so long as it's a good song/tune. Live long and play loud. Regards Mick |
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Subject: RE: The Gentle Maiden From: Bob Bolton Date: 12 Jul 98 - 07:47 PM G'day Mick, Aint it so! I pick up Soodlum's Irish song books and find stuff pinched off everybody. I guess that what annoys me is that there is so much Irish that is really good in its own right. Certainly, as an Australian, I have to admit that the best of our singing traditions came solidly out of the Irish and I suppose I should not begrudge it when they grab a bit back. On which line (and related to one of our early Irish transports 'Frank the Poet' - see 'Whisky in the Jar' thread) the Australian song most thoroughly purloined by the Irish ... and anyone else descended from them ... is 'The Wild Colonial Boy'. This took off in many directions from Frank's poem 'Jack Donaghue', written after the death of a notorious escaped convict bushranger of the Sydney region (shot 1829). Frank was writing from what was already Convict folklore, since he did not arrive in Australia until 1832. Regards, Bob Bolton: 1/16 Irish, 1/16 Dutch, 3/4 assorted Pommies (English), 1/8 sub judice. |
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Subject: RE: The Gentle Maiden From: Mick Lowe Date: 12 Jul 98 - 07:57 PM G'day Bob Appreciate what you're saying. It only goes to re-iterate what I've said about music for so long. At the end of the day who can say where it came from but like Darwin's theory of evolution, either a tune or an idea sparked by some lyrics, will generate a whole new clutch of songs, some of which will be in a different hemisphere. Can you imagine what it will be like if we ever get to colonise other planets? In years to come there will be e-mail/internet addicts like us discussing which solar system a tune came from. Regards Mick |
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Subject: RE: The Gentle Maiden From: Date: 13 Jul 98 - 12:15 PM G'Day Bob, Mick et tout le monde, James Galway and Phil Coulter recorded an album, "Legends" featuring best loved Celtic melodies. I would like to sing their medley Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young Charms/The Gentle Maiden however I can't locate the words to The Gentle Maiden. By the way, included on this "Celtic" album is Henry Mancini's "The Thorn Birds". Isn't that an original melody by the American composer? When describing music, does the term "celtic" refer to a genre of music that originated in the British Isles? I don't wish to offend with my naivete. Karen |
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Subject: RE: The Gentle Maiden From: Martin Ryan. Date: 13 Jul 98 - 04:51 PM Bob
Just how Mancunian do you make it? Air? Words? Regards |
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Subject: RE: The Gentle Maiden From: Bert Date: 13 Jul 98 - 04:55 PM One's perspective on "borrowing" depends upon whether you are the borrower or the borrowee. For example, Wisconsin is quite happy to market "Cheddar" cheese but would be most upset if someone not from Wisconsin (Say, maybe even from Cheddar) were to market "Wisconsin" cheese. |
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Subject: Lyrics req: The Gentle Maiden From: Karen Date: 17 Jul 98 - 10:35 PM I'm looking for the lyrics to an English air: The Gentle Maiden. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE GENTLE MAIDEN From: Frank Maher Date: 19 Jul 98 - 11:17 AM THE GENTLE MAIDEN There's one that is pure as an angel, and fair as the flowers in May. They call her the gentle maiden, wherever she takes her way. Her eyes have the glance of sunlight, as it brightens the blue seaway, And more than the deep-sea treasure, the love of her heart I pray. Though far and apart from my darling, I dream of her everywhere. The sound of her voice is about me, the spell of her presence there, And whether my prayers be granted, or whether she pass me by, The face of that gentle maiden will follow me till I die. I copied these words from a very old record by John McCormack. I hope I got most of the words correct! Frank |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics req: The Gentle Maiden From: Karen Date: 19 Jul 98 - 07:55 PM Thank you Frank! Could you tell me the meter of that song? Is it waltz 3/4 time? |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics req: The Gentle Maiden From: Mick Lowe Date: 19 Jul 98 - 08:53 PM This is very similar to the Snowy Breasted Pearl. Does anyone know the history to either. I know that the"Pearl" was translated from "Pearla an Bhrollaigh Bhan (I know accents are missing), by George Petrie (1790-1866). I always think that songs of unrequitted love are the most poignant. I always think that my spelling/typing skills are atrocious. Cheers Mick |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics req: The Gentle Maiden From: Frank Maher Date: 19 Jul 98 - 11:24 PM Hi Karen, Yes,It's in 3/4 Time Frank |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics req: The Gentle Maiden From: Bob Bolton Date: 20 Jul 98 - 01:51 AM G'day all, We must be keeping different company. Last week we had a thread looking for some Irish songs ... including 'The Gentle Maiden' and I set a cat among the pigeons by innocently remarking that my Grandfather, from Manchester way had always thought it was a Mancunian song. (Is the test of a good song that you think your lot own it?.) Anyway, that time caused great splutterings from the Irish contingent ... presumably they are asleep at the moment. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: Tune Add: THE GENTLE MAIDEN From: alison Date: 20 Jul 98 - 02:43 AM Hi, Here's the tune I know, (I tend to play it faster than usual)..... feel free to slow it down.
MIDI file: GENMAID.MID Timebase: 480 Name: This program is worth the effort of learning it. To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here ABC format: X:1
Slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics req: The Gentle Maiden From: Martin Ryan Date: 20 Jul 98 - 08:13 AM Bob
No spluttering, Bob - honest! Just a mild curiosity. I haven't had a chance to check any Irish sources.And its not that I particularly want to claim it, either! Regards |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics req: The Gentle Maiden From: Karen Date: 20 Jul 98 - 10:50 PM Howdy Alison and Frank, I'm extremely grateful for your assistance in my research. Karen |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics req: The Gentle Maiden From: Bob Bolton Date: 21 Jul 98 - 12:02 AM G'day Martin, No worries my end, I was just engaging in a little chiacking. Anyway, I suspect that the "ownership" of any song is a pretty specious concept. The interchange between folk traditions (particularly those as rich as the Irish) and the music hall stage was constant. A traditional song would be reworked for the stage (in something not too different from the folk process) and then the folk would take it as their own and shape it to their ownd ends. A good example would be "Finnegan's Wake" - the English would sing such a song on stage as a standard insult to the Irish, yet the Irish could take it and enjoy its humour and make it truly Irish. I saw the thread on "The Snowy Breasted Pearl". Such a song could be translated and sung as a music hall number ... and easily considered to belong in the area that the performer came from, while recognised in its home as something else. My great interest is in Australian traditions .. so what is an Australian tradition? It is just the same as anyone else's tradition, except that it happened recently enough for us to see the process. I regard any music or song that has survived on its own for a generation or more as having a good Australian pedigree. I don't go stealing anyone else's songs and music, but anyone else can do what feels right to them. Australia is an immigrant country - unless you are a Koori (the local name for an Aboriginal Australian) - and it has an immigrant tradition ... no matter how much some things that crawled out from under a rotting political log like to think otherwise. Yeah ... I'll get out of your way now! OH! ... Thanks Alison for the ABC. We were discussing the differences between 'The Gentle Maiden' and 'Rosin the Beau' (the tune commonly used in Australia for a convict escape song; "The Catalpa" ... probably in the DT) at Backblocks' practice, last Monday and this could help lots. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics req: The Gentle Maiden From: Pete M Date: 21 Jul 98 - 01:41 AM Well put Bob, I know we have been down the "what is traditional" road many times, but from my point of view I am sure that the folk process, whether or not it involves published sources and / or standard performace versions is very much a circular process with feedback and learning / modifying going on all the time. Even going back to the middle ages and beyond, travelling musicians were infuenced by singers and players from other backgrounds and traditions, and these changes were passed on to and assimilated by their audiences. I suspect that any one who claims "ownership" of a folk song for a particular culture is doing so to support their own political agenda. Doubly so if they insist it should only be sung in the "original" whatever. The other factor is of course that the recording industry has at the moment the perceprtion that anything labelled as "Irish" or"celtic" used in their minds synonomously, will sell. Like most of us I am interested in the history of the songs we discuss / sing and believe we should give credit to an earliest known source, but that is different from ownership. Pete M |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics req: The Gentle Maiden From: Bob Bolton Date: 21 Jul 98 - 07:03 PM G'day Pete, I see you across the Tasman, so you would well appreciate my Australian view of a folk tradition. If we restricted ourselves to the European Volkslieder definitions of folksong (compositions of the unknown, far distant, non-professional, illiterate lumpenproletariat) we could be easily told that we (Aus and Enzed) have no folklore. We know better than that and this requires us to think hard about what a tradition really is. Both colonial countries had energetic, literate populations - sometimes it was their literacy and energy that got them moved here, certainly to Australia - and our folk lore can be seen in the way that existing material was reshaped to the neeeds and tastes of a new society. Just because we can see it happening doesn't stop it being folklore. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: Lyrics: Gentle Maiden From: Ken Date: 02 Apr 99 - 03:23 PM There's a lovely melody called "The Gentle Maiden." I'm quite sure there are lyrics to this song as well (I see that John McCormack recorded it way back when). Could somebody please post the lyrics. I'd be interested in any info you have on it as well. I suspect it's a fairly popular song. Thanks in advance --Ken |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Gentle Maiden From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin Date: 03 Apr 99 - 02:14 PM As well as Gentle Maiden, there is a set of words to it as The Lark of the Singing Ford. I have those in a book somewhere, but I can't find it just at the moment. If no-one else can oblige, I'll dig it out and post those. Shoh slaynt, Bobby Bob |
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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Gentle Maiden From: Martin _Ryan Date: 03 Apr 99 - 04:53 PM For that matter, I think there was a discussion and a set of words in the forum a while back. I'll try a search when I get a chance. regards |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: GUEST,naomi.layish@gmail.com Date: 07 Mar 06 - 09:58 AM To Frank: Can you give me exact details of the John McCormack (or McCormick) recording of folk songs, among them THE GENTLE MAIDEN, allegedly made in l940. As a small girl I sang this and could only have obtained it from that recording, but records from that time are long lost. I remember the tune very well, but should like to hear the record again which also included, as I remember, Kathleen Mavourneen (the grey dawn is breaking) etc, whose tune and words I remember very well. I am writing an autobiographical novel (my email is not in my writing name, have written many books) and recalling a period so far away is much easier when I hear the music. All others who may read this, please respond if you can. In the first instance I shall try Harold Moore records in Great Marlborough St London, who are good at this kind of thing, but it may need further research. Thank you, everyone. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: Peace Date: 07 Mar 06 - 10:15 AM General Info Here |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: Peace Date: 07 Mar 06 - 10:19 AM CD Available here. Lower Left--click on the CD square. It's the "Voices of Ireland" CD. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: GENTLE MAIDEN From: Jim Dixon Date: 11 Mar 06 - 11:33 PM Allmusic.com lists 31 recordings of THE GENTLE MAIDEN. Some are instrumental arrangements. Here are some vocal versions: John McCormack (from 1940), on "The Voice of Ireland: 25 Popular Songs and Ballads," Prism Classics CD #28, 1998. Joseph McNally (from c1947), on "Legendary Irish Tenors," Intersound CD #1155, 2000. John Fowler, on "Irish Celebration: The Sands of Tramore," Direct Source CD #6187, 2000. Frank Patterson, "Love Songs of Ireland," Rego Irish CD #3097, 1996. I've listened to several sound samples, and examined a couple of transcriptions found on the Internet, and here's my corrected copy: There's one that is pure as an angel, and fair as the flow'rs of May. They call her the gentle maiden, wherever she takes her way. Her eyes have the glance of sunlight, as it brightens the blue sea wave, And more than the deep-sea treasure, the love of her heart I crave. Though parted afar from my darling, I dream of her ev'rywhere. The sound of her voice is about me, the spell of her presence there, And whether my prayers be granted, or whether she pass me by, The face of that gentle maiden will follow me till I die. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: GUEST,Holger Date: 25 Jul 07 - 03:00 AM I this page The song, as far as I know, is an 6/8 and the main rhythum might be 1/8. - 1/16 - 1/8 - 1/8. - 1/16 - 1/8 in a bar |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: GUEST,Jim Cloonan Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:24 AM Thanks for the lyrics, Frank. That is a lovely tune. I'd love to hear the McCormack verison. I first heard this tune in college during the summer of 1996, it was a recording by the Scotsman Kenneth McKellar. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: ard mhacha Date: 15 Oct 08 - 10:42 AM Jim Listen to John McCormack singing The Gentle maiden on You Tube. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: GUEST,Bob G Date: 18 Nov 08 - 11:11 PM I first heard this tune as a film score. It appeared in a "B" movie "Value for Money" and was sung by actor John Gregson. Muir Matheson made the sound for the film and it appeared in the credits. I'm sure someone somewhere apart from the above has an orchestral version. Perhaps it appears as another name. Has anyone any information - please. A record company and title would be a golden gift. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: GUEST Date: 23 Nov 09 - 11:56 AM peejaycee I've come late to this discussion but would like to add my pennyworth to the debate. With an English Army and (and their regimental musicians) based in Ireland for centuries their must have been considerable interchange of music. I have always believed this to be an Irish air. The reason we are a little protective of our songs is that the people who wrote them were the last of the bards who, (intentionally or not) kept this aspect of our culture alive in the teeth of serious attempts to eradicate it. Ironically, much of what is preserved was preserved by English scholars. As regards to the lyrics (from the John McCormack recording) I think :- Her eyes have the glance of the sunlight as it touches the deep sea wave, And more than the deep sea trasure, the love of her heart I crave. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: GUEST Date: 30 Jul 13 - 11:51 PM i hope all this people who were discussing here r alive,i loved this peace the first day we sang it in choir back in 2002. Karen i would jus love to see your research |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: GUEST,gutcher Date: 31 Jul 13 - 05:00 AM I always thought, for no particular reason, that the "Gentle Maiden" was composed by Thomas Moore. Some digging required as the info link given above no longer works. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: MartinRyan Date: 31 Jul 13 - 05:43 AM The first of the "related threads" above gives some info on tune and words. Essentially - an old Irish tune (with all the usual caveats) - words by Harry Boulton (early 20C.?) - a translation into Irish by Douglas Hyde. Have never heard it, incidentally. A quick glance at the online catalogue of the Irish Traditional Music Archive (ITMA for short - but don't tell anyone I told you! ;>)>) tallies with this. I may have a chance to confirm on the spot later this week. Regards |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: Jim McLean Date: 31 Jul 13 - 08:47 AM The tune is also used for The men of the West, an Irish rebel song written by William Rooney but I don't know when. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: MartinRyan Date: 31 Jul 13 - 01:44 PM Rooney's dates were: born 1873, died 1901. Regards |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: MartinRyan Date: 01 Aug 13 - 09:04 AM Incidentally, in Colm O Lochlainn's 1967 book, Songwriters of Ireland, he says the following of Rooney: His best known song is "The Men of the West" written to the western folk-air associated with Richard Barrett's satirical song "Eoghan Cóir" but now sung to a very poor Dublin version from which almost all of the subtlety, humour and elegance of the original tune has departed. Regards |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: Jim Dixon Date: 01 Aug 13 - 09:52 AM See Songs of the Four Nations: A Collection of Old Songs of the People of England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales.... edited by Harold Boulton [Sir Harold Edwin Boulton (bart.)], (London: J. B. Cramer & Co., 1893), page 200ff. A musical score is given there for piano and one voice. Credits given there are: "English words by Harold Boulton Irish translation by Dr. Douglas Hyde" [but the Irish is not given] "Old Irish Air. Arranged by Arthur Somervell" |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 01 Aug 13 - 10:32 AM Thanks, Jim. It's a lovely tune, one worth searching for. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: Tootler Date: 15 May 15 - 06:13 AM I get annoyed when people claim that songs/tunes are either "Irish" or (even worse) "Celtic" when they are clearly not and get all indignant when they are shown evidence of their true origin. I've always assumed this tune actually is Irish but given the tendency for some people to claim that every traditional song or tune from the British Isles must be Irish or "Celtic" (yuk! How I hate that term) I thought I would check and see what I could find. From a quick search on the internet, I found this "...was probably composed in the mid-1800s. It was first notated in 1839 by Ed Bunting, who first heard it from a Miss Murphy of Dublin." The source was a site of free flute music so would need further checking but seems reasonable. Of course it does not give the ultimate origin - which could well be untraceable - but it does suggest that it's been around in Ireland for long enough to reasonably be called Irish. As to time signature I'd always assumed it to be in 6/8 and certainly the sources I originally found were all 6/8 but it's easy to "convert" a 6/8 tune to 3/4 and play it as a waltz. For dancing that's fine but if you do it as an air, you can easily lose something as the stress patterns for 6/8 and 3/4 are different. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: Little Robyn Date: 15 May 15 - 10:11 PM I wonder if Ed Bunting thought Miss Murphy of Dublin was a gentle maiden? If he didn't know its real name, that would be better than 'Ed Bunting's favourite' or just 'Unknown'. Just a thought. Robyn |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Gentle Maiden From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 16 May 15 - 12:45 PM How about playing it or singing it? There are a number of performances of it on YouTube, and this site can provide you with the music in a number of formats. http://abcnotation.com/ Happy music-making. |
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