Folklore: Treacle mines

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 09:28 AM

Oh I forgot but it is obvious - I think there is a link here between treacle mines and treaclestick and dole.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 09:26 AM

Gubby, Penny S re sticky stuff **G**

Not a lot of people know this but:-
In the days before the dole any hand-out was referred to lovingly as the "Treacle Stick" because Treacle was not spooned out of the tub it came in, it was allowed to adhere to a stick and dispensed into the customers container in that long stringy drip. At the end of the tub or if they had their own stick (I know not if) the stick could be given to a child as a treat to lick. Hence any hand-out could be called a treaclestick. Eventually the dole would be known as "On the Treaclestick" in the Midlands much as Glasga called it "On the Brew".

By the 70's I knew a social worker who edited a paper/magazine called "The Treaclestick". It was a far left propaganda rag aimed at informing Social Workers and their "clients" as much as an intellectual exercise in Government bashing. A sort of "Big Issue" with more attitude.

<PEDANT ON> FWIW Treacle is black and Golden Syrup isn't. Modern usage decrees we call it Black Treacle and treacle respectively. Oh the joys of language

<PEDANT OFF>

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: Gubby
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 09:00 AM

I believe there is a treacle mine in Egloskerry Cornwall!
but thats a sticky subject!
I'd better ask the locals.

Gub

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: Deni-C
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 08:53 AM

songwriter, BARRY GEE has written a terrific song called the Tamberton Treacle Mine Disaster. It goes down a bomb with audiences......

He gives this hilarious story first about where the mines are, just outside Plymouth and the man who first discovered them etc....

Cheers
deni

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 07:32 AM

The Edwardian writer E Nesbit had a story involving treacle mines. (Well I think it was a sea of treacle that solidified and turned into toffee.) That would have been around 1900. She could have been drawing on an existing joke tradition, or maybe that was the origin of it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 06:21 AM

Surely they're in Cookham Dean in Berkshire???? That's what my Grandad told me......

Kris

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 05:53 AM

I'm surprised that none of the "Seven Champions" molly dancers from Kent have posted on this thread. The reason that they "black-up" goes back to the days when the side was started by workers in the Frittenden Treacle Mines.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: SussexCarole
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 03:04 PM

Noel Dumbrell sings song of the Sompting Treacle Mines - he has recently released CD - not sure if it's on there - will check

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: Nemesis
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 02:57 PM

I live in Worthing Sussex .. and there was a local history article in the local papers recently about the treacle mines .. BRB havinging a look

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: TNDARLN
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 02:05 PM

How do you pronounce "treacle"? Thanks.

TD- who has a recipe for treacle bread out, ready to bake.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 12:53 PM

I saw the story on a poster in a gift shop in Clitheroe BTW so it must be true...

:D

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 12:51 PM

Definitely Sabden, Mrs D. I've been! And what a delightful experience it was.

It was also around that area that 'Larnin pills' were made. One day a tourist to the Pendle area was watching an old farmer picking up little black balls from the fields, studying them closely and then either discarding them or putting them in a sack depending what he saw.

Unable to contain himself any longer the tourist asked the farmer what he was doing, to which the farmer replied,

"Collectin' Larnin pills."

The tourist was impressed and asked if he could purchase some. The farmer though long and hard and told the tourist they would be £5 each. The tourist bought 4 and, pleased with his purchase instanly swallowed one.

"Good grief" he cried "they taste like sheep shit!"

"Tha's larnin," the farmer replied. "Tha's larnin..."

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 11:49 AM

and I thought they were at Tockholes Colin near Blackburn

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: Col K
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 11:31 AM

Don't forget that in Lancashire there are the Sabden Treacle Mines.
Sabden is a small village near Pendle Hill in E. Lancs.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: GUEST,willy barden
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 10:23 AM

the Kentish treacle mines (and there are many!) are a very long standing joke on the credulous or extremely drunk ( on Ketish cider) - the joke certainly predates my greatgrandfather who was born in Rye about 1860. It should be pointed out the there are all kinds of mines in Kent - for stone, lime, iron ore and any kind of cave whose origin is obscure can be referred to as an entrance to the old treacle mines.

It seems the joke continues to roll on

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: GUEST,Bystander
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 09:52 AM

When I moved to Sussex in the 50's I heard references to treacle mines all over the county. Work-shy people were said to work in them ("He's at his usual job, working in the Rusper Treacle Mine"), people who were late were said to have got stuck in them, etc. This is very much the typical humour of the Sussex 'yokel' of Victorian times and probably a lot earlier.
Check www.treaclemine.freeserve.co.uk

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: breezy
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 09:41 AM

'Near Wookey hole in days gone by lived three unlucky men
The first fell down a treacle mine and was never seen again.
Chorus
And all the birds cried 'Fancy that'
And all the birds cried'Fancy that'
And all the birds cried'Fancy that'
to hear this unlucky tale

from West Heath J.m.infants school, Brum.
music lessons in 1970s

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 08:34 AM

Don't forget the Jam Butty mines in Notty Ash

Tattyfalarious, under the circumstances. Have you ever been Tattyfalarious under the curcumstances missus?

(ref Ken Dodd for the bewildered)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 08:17 AM

The village of Wareside, about 3 miles from where I sit, is renowned locally for its treacle mines. I did not know that the storywas more widespread.
Tam, I suppose it is easier drill for the porridge than dig it up.
Keith.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 07:38 AM

In Scotland there was an American who thought that we in Scotland mined for Porridge.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: Penny S.
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 07:14 AM

The Alice in Wonderland treacle well is derived from the treacle well in St Frideswide's churchyard in Oxford, a healing well, as the old use of the word treacle was for a healing substance or balm - but the mines are certainly referring to the sticky stuff.

I googled, rather than dogpiled, but most of the references I found were from within the world in which the mines exist, rather than from our world, in which they are a local conceit. Or is that too posh a way of putting it? What I'm interested in is the idea of the treacle mine as a joke, which seems to encourage, both in the 30's and now, an extended riff on a simple idea.

The closest to what I wanted to know was on the Frittenden website, where it is said that locals sent London tourists off to look for the mines as a joke. But why treacle mines - why not doughnut mines? Jam mines? Sausage quarries?

Penny

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 06:53 AM

Surely you all know of the treacle well in Alice in Wonderland?
Perhaps a treacle mine is related in some way.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 06:52 AM

Go to Dogpile [the search engine], and put in Treacle Mine, there is loads of information.
Giok.......A mine of information!!!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 06:46 AM

I've never heard of treacle mines, only jam butty mines, and they are in Knotty Ash nr. Liverpool. Sounds interesting though, I shall investigate.
Giok

Subject: Folklore: Treacle mines
From: Penny S.
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 06:29 AM

On Friday my father, while watching Bill Oddie wandering through a field of tall docks, recalled his father taking about Patcham Dockyards and Treacle Mines. I have searched for references to these, and found plenty on the latter. Some Sussex geologist (I deduce) has a fancy website on mining the stuff, and there are other references elsewhere. Most of the references seem to date to the 1930's, though some attribute a greater age to the concept, which in one place is recorded as being part of the British folk tradition. (Music connection - a Kentish Morris side.)

Can anyone throw any light on the origin of the idea of treacle mines - I don't want the cod history of prospectors uncovering veins of theriaciferous rock - or the buried army molasses - was it in some music hall sketch, some precursor of the Pythons' parrot? An author was producing stories in the Worthing area of Sussex between the WW wars, but there are enough references in other parts of England to suggest that that may not have been the origin.

And if anyone can throw any light on the Dockyards, that would be a help as well.

Penny