How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY

Subject: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: outfidel
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 04:30 PM

How to kill a radio station

As a long-time and now former fan of WNEW, watching its descent over the past decade has been truly sad. These days, the only thing that comes close to replacing it on the dial is public radio -- in fact, a few ex-WNEW jocks are now on WFUV, the Fordham University station. But commercial radio in the New York area is a vast wasteland.

This reminds me of a Village Voice story a few years ago about the sorry state of NY radio. The headline read "Welcome to Hell: Here Are Your Radios, Sinners."

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: mike the knife
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 04:39 PM

Didn't Vin Scelzo (sp?) defect to WFUV a while back, taking his wonderful "Idiot's Delight" with him? Commercial radio in NYC is beyond redemption.

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 05:02 PM

I'm not sure if he defected or needed to find another home.   He was the only "music" show left on WNEW after they went to the talk format.

I too grew up on WNEW-FM.   As much as I despise all the empty suits and research groups that contributed to their demise, it would be wrong to blame them solely. Audience tastes changed dramatically once MTV came on the scene. WNEW, never a strong ratings grabber to begin with, started to drop even further. Starting in the late 80's, radio could not figure out a way to incorporate rap music.   Let's face it, WNEW-FM was marketed to a large white middle class audience, and that audience was discovering rap music. Rock music was going through changes and WNEW could not figure out who they were programming for.

Frankly, I think WNEW was a product of its time and it can never be the same way again.   Commercial radio in NYC is a vast wasteland. Public radio is the last alternative, but don't assume it will always stay that way. Even now there are indications that SOME public radio stations are trying to market their programs to the largest common audience they can find. Free-form radio is almost dead too without listners to support it.

Ron

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: outfidel
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 05:12 PM

WFUV not only has Vin & his "Idiot's Delight" program, but it also has Pete Fornatale's "Mixed Bag" and Dennis Elsas (he of the legendary '74 John Lennon interview). WFUV also had Meg Griffin at one time, but she seems to have moved on.

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: BH
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 06:15 PM

Ron's modesty must have precluded him from saying that he hosts shows --as do I --on a metro NY /NJ area station that is, what could be termed, "free form" to some great extent. The hosts of the various programs can pretty well define the parameters of their programs---and the programs vary from interviews in the arts and lit on wknd mornings to jazz,pop,folk,Celtic,new singer/songwriters. "Eclectic" would be the term that comes to mind.

The New York Times recently ran a piece on the dearth of Country Music in the NY area. They felt WFUV broadcast it--and that was about it. Not only an incorrect statement, but they neglected to mention the others in the area. WKCR and WFDU come to mind. My letter to the editor was not published---something I expected. The Gray Lady does not like to be called to task---you can, however, critique its columnists.

In any case, you all probably know that the station I refer to in the beginning of this piece to expose Ron's modesty is WFDU 89.1 FM in Teaneck (where, by the way, Eric Andersen will be joining me this Sunday on the Trditions program 3-6 PM)

www.wfdu.fm

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 06:20 PM

I don't even remember the last time I turned a radio on...

Oh wait.. yes I do.. it was during last winters ice storm... the one that knocked out the powere here for a day and a half... I firued up a little FM walkman that I have late at night to see what was out there... after about 10 or 15 minutes I turned it off, casue all it did was remind me why I stopped listening to the radio in the first place...

If Video Killed The Radio Star, I for one, am glad...

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: BH
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 06:33 PM

I guess you have never allowed yourself the pleasures of the Public stations or the community stations where one can discover talent that you have not heard before. Where you can still hear radio drama--and you might also be able to get Prairie Home Companion. A wonderful mix of all of the above.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 06:38 PM

NPR?? National PRETENTIOUS Radio?

No thanks... I'm not into talk radio... and when any of the good shows (Car Talk, Mountain Stage, Our Front Poarch) are actually on, I tend to be somewhere where I can't get to a radio...

And CBC radio is even worse...

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: BH
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 06:59 PM

I have never understood the intrique of "Car Talk"---I cannot get to the "off" switch fast enough.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 07:28 PM

Theres nothing more subjective than taste eh...

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: BH
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 07:55 PM

so true!!!

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 09:52 PM

The sad truth is that what is happenining in NY is not unique. that's what's happening to radio nationwide. WBEZ in Chicago does funding announcement which sound more like standard radio commercials every day. WFMT has finally started airing pre-recorded commercials, thus diminishing the uniqueness of its sound. Wisconsin Public Radio consistantly pulls up just short of pandering to the marketplace. I'm sure that "Catters in other parts of the country could make similar observations.

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: outfidel
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 09:59 PM

Bill & Ron -

I live in Ridgewood NJ and I listen to WFDU, although I didn't know until now that you guys were "you guys". Usually, I have your station on during the weekday when I'm in the car, since I know I can catch some great blues on the afternoon "Across the Tracks" show.

Now that I see your info on your "Traditions" program, I'll have to tune in on Sundays. I like that list of sample artists on your page.

In the NYC area, the only valuable radio is public radio. Besides WFDU and WFUV, I listen to WBGO on Saturdays for Felix Hernandez's great classic soul program, the the Rhythm Revue.

Great radio isn't dead; it's just not produced by the big corporations IMHO.

Michael

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: BH
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 10:32 PM

Thanks---ah---such taste!!   Glad to have you aboard!!
Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: BH
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 10:34 PM

You know maybe we should change the name of the thread to How do You Birth an Interesting Radio Station----WFDU, Teaneck

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: outfidel
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 10:42 PM

Maybe we could borrow some of your ideas to birth an internet radio station -- Mudcat Radio.

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 05:41 AM

outfidel, we did have Mudcat Radio, once a week, until Max, the owner, had to move Mudcat to his house and didn't have the space to host it. It was wonderful and a lot of us miss it. We had a chat up for the time it was on, plus there was live video, too. When they can, I think they plan to put the archived shows up, again. When they do, they are well worth viewing, imo. Max has said he wants to get the radio going again, sometime, too. (Of course, all of this doesn't mean there couldn't be some other types of Mudcat radio figured out, too.:-)

Stephen, you are right, this has been happening all over the nation. We have a lot of friends in radio where we started out and so many of them are so demoralised by the corporate owners who usually know absolutely nothing about broadcast, have no loyalty to the communities in which they own stations, and no responsibility to their employees. They serve up pablum for the mindless masses. Several years ago, I noted here that the same kind of dumbing down was occuring on public radio, too, citing Wyoming Public radio's KUWR.

Ron and Bill's show and station, plus a few others on the internet are like brilliant diamonds in a vast wasteland of shrieking psuedo-divas and crotch-grabbing boy-toys.And, you can quote me on that, Bill & Ron!**bg**

Luckily, here in Colorado, we have a small community radio station made up of volunteers where the sound is eclectic, informative, and always a treat. They've just recently become available for listening on the internet at www.kafmradio.org. Our public radio is not too bad, yet. They run two channels, one almost all talk and news with PHC, Car Talk, and a few other shows thrown in, and their other channel is all classical which I enjoy, too.

BTW, I started a thread the other day on Homer Ledford and his band, Cabin Creek's appearance on NPR's Whad'ya Know stage. They sounded great and there is a link in the thread to what should be a finally activated audio file of his interview and their performances. What 'til you hear him play not only the fiddle, but also the saw! WoW!

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: outfidel
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 09:31 AM

katlaughing - I had a feeling my Mudcat Radio idea was not an original one. Sounds like it was good stuff.

I wonder if the economics of radio broadcast are such that it cannot be profitable *and* aesthetically pleasing at the same time. I mean, not all the world has the same tastes as Mudcatters. ;) If most people want to listen to Britney and Justin Timberlake -- and if any successful commercial enterprise succeeds by giving most the people what they want -- then maybe eclectic radio *has* to be non-commercial. It's the age-old battle between art and profits. Thoughts?

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 09:39 AM

Kat,

Some of the archived shows are available again, at least the Traditions shows that Bill & I have archived over the years are available. In fact, we have added a few new ones - including one about the Mudcat CD collection and Bill will soon be archiving a show that he did about Zora Neale Thurston.   We have to thank Max for making this available again.

We did not mean to sidetrack this conversation with a not-so-subtle plug for our show. Sorry!

Getting back to the subject at hand, internet radio broadcasts are part of the answer. Support for ALL local programs in your area is what will count and help stop the death of alternative radio programming. I hesitate to use the words "free-form" because most people have images of haphazard and sloppy programs.   There is a lot of time and energy put into most of the traditional radio programs that can be found around the country. I met with about 40 of our peers at a conference in Nashville and I can assure you that a lot of thought is being given to improve the situation.   While WNEW-FM's demise can more likely be attributed to changing musical tastes, the
"dumbing down" or finding the lowest common denominator theory that exists in BOTH commercial and public radio can only be stopped by listners.   Support is the only thing that will turn programmers heads.

Ron

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 09:41 AM

I think you hit the nail on the head Outfidel, although I'm not convinced that commercial radio HAS to be non-eclectic.   Perhaps the answer will be satellite radio, which like cable television offers a variety. Of course having 100 channels of infomercials is not the answere either.

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: Pooby
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 10:21 AM

I, too, mourned the demise of NEW-FM as we knew it, although my interest in the station had been waning as my favorite jocks (Dave Herman, Vinnie, Fornatale, Dennis Elsas) moved away.

When I moved to the Jersey Shore in '99, though, I found the wonderfully eclectic WBJB-FM, a commercial-free, listener-supported station that goes by the handle "90.5 The Night." Fornatale's "Mixed Bag" is a Saturday feature, while Sunday morning has the 3-hour "Bluegrass Jam" and Sunday night offers a 3-hour "Box of Blues." The rest of the week's musical programming is a tribute to diversity on the airwaves.

Those who aren't in the immediate listening area can listen on-line at www.90.5thenight.org. It's worth it.

Poobs

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 10:29 AM

Reading this thread makes me sincerely grateful for the output of the BBC. We pay our license fees and get an (almost) commercial-free set of regional, national & international programmes.
We also receive commercial stations, but I can avoid those, unless I've got the children in the car!

Nigel

Subject: RE: How to kill a radio station -- WNEW NY
From: InOBU
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 07:30 PM

Nigel is right about music on BBC... here I am bitching and moaning about not being able to get here or there in New York, except for WBAI who plays my music alot, but then there is BBC Scottland, who has Sorcha Dorcha on their web page... I was going to read the thead on music and depression, but I figured it would be too depressing, this one is pretty close to the reality about depression and music in New York, the music sceene is cliqish, meanspirited and underpayed and the radio sucks to boot.
Keep smiling, someone has to...
Cheers
Larry