BS: Lenten fast?

Subject: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Burke
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 09:58 AM

Last year there was a discussion about what people were planning to give up for Lent that got me thinking & I ended up giving up Mudcat for the 40 days. It really did help me get my priorities in better order.

I have not yet made a decision about this year. Being Episcopalian, I feel no obligation to make a fast. I have, however, found the practice to be useful in the past.

Will you be giving up anything for Lent? If so, what?

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: MMario
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 10:01 AM

I've been considering giving up moderation for Lent - either that or celebacy. I used to (at great personal sacrifice) give up dieting for Lent - but it didn't work out.

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Beccy
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 12:12 PM

As someone who was raised United Methodist and is now a practicing Baptist, I am under no obligation to fast or give up something for Lent. However, my Dad was raised Catholic and always taught us that the act of giving something up for Lent was symbolic of Christ's sacrifice, thus we should give up something that was dear to us.
As kids, the sacrifices were often ridiculous. My sister gave up potato chips one year (successfully, I might add...)
One year my little brother gave up his Tonka Truck (unsuccessfully.)

I must admit that I haven't given it much thought as an adult. I do thank you for the reminder,though and I am going to decide what I could give up for Lent. Fasting is out as I am currently pregnant and having trouble keeping on weight. What a nice thing to mull over... Thanks for the brain and heart work-out, Burke.

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 12:53 PM

I confess I don't always rigidly observe the fast as I should but we usually at least try. In our tradition (Eastern Orthodox) we give up all meat completely beginning yesterday and give up all dairy products and oil beginning next Monday, March 10, the first day of Great Lent. During Holy Week we also give up fish. We celebrate Great and Holy Pascha this year on April 27.

In some Orthodox traditions, “meat” is identified as any animal with a backbone. In that tradition, fish is classified as meat but shellfish is not. But you know, it's astonishing to see the variety of wonderful dishes that conform to the letter of the fasting law. Of course the spirit of fasting requires that we eat less and less often, not just modify our recipies.

Of course there are exceptions to the fasting rule. Someone in Beccy's “condition” wouldn't be expected to fast and neither would young children or the sick. If we're invited to someone's house for a meal and meat is served, we eat what is offered.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Kim C
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 04:05 PM

I came up in the Baptist church and we didn't do Lent. I think perhaps we should make sacrifices on a regular basis, instead of just once a year - I reckon a lot of us already do, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 04:35 PM

In the Eastern Orthodox tradition we do make sacrifices throughout the year. We have a forty-day fast leading into Christmas and a number of lesser fasts throughout the year. Of course nearly every Wednesday and Friday are fast days as well. All in all, around half of the days in a year are fast days.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Burke
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 05:08 PM

We should make sacrifices on a regular basis. It's easy to not think about it or get around to it, however. Having a set time to think about what these should be can be really helpful. Ash Wednesday can be a bit like a chance to review ones New Years resolutions & reimplement those that have fallen away.

I've given up particular foods for Lent in the past. Following some rule about certain foods on certain days has never really had an appeal for me. When it set as a rule, sometimes it seems like the letter rather than the spirit is often followed. As a child I was a Protestant in a very Roman Catholic, coastal area. Every Friday was a no meat day, but since it frequently meant the fish places being full & serving huge portions, it never looked like much of a fast to us.

I prefer to try to find the spirit of the fasting. For me, a big part is checking what's out of line in my life & getting it reordered. Last year I felt I was spending an inordinate amount of time on Mudcat & it was good for me to give it up for the 6 weeks.

BTW, I used the term fast somewhat inaccurately. Fasting strictly speaking means not eating, or restricted rules. I was thinking more in terms of abstaining from something during this period.

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 06:02 PM

From my experience if one doesn't fast lent goes by much faster. >JAT<

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 07:19 PM

Too true, JAT, I'm in the last mellow glow of drink before the 46 long days. And coffee. And chocolate. And chips. And coitus. Well, perhaps not that. Some things are more difficult. A drink sooden weekend in Portaferry with the Cats, a night off, and then a bender tonight, oh, sweet sorrow. At least the recompense of sleeping like a baby for six weeks is some payback.

I don't like this BS sifting malarky. If Joe could order my life in this fashion I could get used to it, but I like things in natural order, good, bad, ugly, do now, do later, ignore, laugh, spit, love. I know it's the drink talking, but I'm unreconstructed folkie enough to like things the way they used to be. Oh, the Cat is also on the above list, as it was on New Year Resolutions. I must join Brother Oakley in hermithood.

See y'awl after Easter, perhaps.

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: hesperis
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 09:18 PM

Hmmmm... I'd give up sickness, but I don't know how much control over that.

Maybe I can give up some of the habits I made because I was really sick in the past...

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: TIA
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 10:45 PM

The Pope has asked people worldwide to fast for peace on Ash Wednesday. I'm not Catholic, but since he finally pardoned Galileo (after 500 years), I'll return the favor he did for scientists, and join him.

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: GUEST,misophist
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 12:38 AM

Eppur si muove.

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 08:48 AM

I like the idea of doing something extra instead. Sacrifice some time helping people instead of sacrificing a pleasure. I think I'll start by mking a coffee for the office now...:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Gervase
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 10:36 AM

Since giving up Catholicism for Lent I've never been happier!
This year, however, Lent really is going to be difficult. Without realising the significance of the calendar, I had my last cigarette ( I hope) on Sunday night.
Now I know just how addictive the damned things are. Meanwhile, for all those who may cross my path in the days to come, sorry!

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Kim C
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 11:37 AM

Mark, I don't mean necessarily fasting in the religious sense. I mean giving up things like, complaining because Mister doesn't turn off the hallway light. Or always trying to get the last word. Or that second glass of wine, or extra helping of dessert. Or telling my Mom (or whoever else is on the phone), I can't talk now, West Wing is on. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Peg
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 12:06 PM

Good luck Gervase!!! It's a hard habit to break but if you get through the first couple of weeks they say it's far easier after that. Better health will be your reward...

I have been thinking of this a bit this week, as I used to be an ex-Catholic (usually gave up chocolate or candy for lent as a kid) and am now pagan with no reason to voluntarily "give up" anything. However, I think it is always a good idea to examine one's behavior periodically and see what needs changing. I also fast periodically during the year, usually in autumn and spirng, for health reasons.

I have a friend with cancer. It's melanoma: started with skin growth, spread to his lymph nodes, they were removed and he was cancer-free, now it's in his liver and his prognosis is not good, but he has many friends working on healing for him and he has a good oncologist who has a somewhat holistic approach. He gave up smoking several weeks ago when he got the news about his liver. Prior to that, when he was on chemotherapy and still smoking we badgered him about hit. His reply was that "that's got nothing to do with it." Granted, smoking is not usually seen as a direct cause of melanoma, but when cancer is poisoning your body, and you're adding chemotherapy (more poison, to kill the cancer) or, even worse, radiation, then the last thing the body needs is to be processing MORE poison in the form of nicotine (or alcohol or sugar or fast food etc.) This friend (several years younger than me) also has had a VERY unhealthy diet for years (though has never appeared to be much overweight and usually looked quite healthy). He ate red meat at least twice a day, every day, lots of processed foods, and when cajoled to eat something green would reply "Vegetables are what food eats."

I say all this not to get down on smokers or red meat eaters, necessarily...but because today, Ash Wednesday, I am thinking is a good symbolic starting day for taking better care of myself and maybe setting an example for others. I am reading a book which came out in the 1970s Healing Yourself the European Way which offers lots of tips on emulating the Swedish "Spa" or German "Bad" treatments which include fasting, various types of water therapy and advice on exercise, stress reduction etc. Very interesting to see a 1970s viewpoint on things which are increasingly in the news now, e.g. the connection between diet and debilitating disease, the value of aerobic exercise in preventing weight gain (remember, in the 1970s jogging became a "craze?" and we didn't have anywhere near the problem with obesity we have now. A fat twelve year old was an anomaly in America, back then).

I don't know if his lifestyle choices gave my friend cancer. And I know this effort to change my own habits won't help my friend (though I hope my healing thoughts will), but I am thinking more and more these days the time to start living a more healthy life is NOW. And in the spirit of "going without" one can examine the excesses most of us partake of: it's a way if life in developed countries. Taking pleasure in food and drink is certainly a path towards happiness (many of my friends center our social gatherings around a fine meal with some home-brewed mead or beer)), but I know so many people who do this to excess, either occasionally or frequently, without really knowing how to stop at a reasonable point.

Maybe the buzzword for this season of lent could be "reevaluation" instead of "sacrifice."

We may all have to give up certain things not too far into the future; may we all be strong enough to fight for what's worth keeping, and wise enough to let go of what we don't need.

peg

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Peg
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 12:07 PM

I am sorry if my last post seemed somewhat off-topic at times. But it was helpful for me to write about what my friend is going through.

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: mg
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 03:51 PM

I hope your friend gets better health soon. I wouldn't assume that red meat is the problem however or that going off it is the answer. Please read what Dr. Mary Enig, biochemist, fat researcher, has to say on the topic of grass-fed beef (I am talking about the meat itself, not the pesticides, antibiotics and other artificial stuff that poisons it). I think, and many doctors and scientists think, that some of the massive health problems, that are associated with diabetes, obesity (which are pretty much the same process at least in many people) are not the eating of red meat, but the not eating of it in people who should be eating it. And not the eating of good fats that we are biologically evolved for, depending on our ancestry, but the paranoid avoidance of them and the simultaneous consumption of the trans fats and any artificially produced fats. The Metabolic body typing diet..never sure if I get the title right..gets into this. Many medical anthropologists are delving into this issue..who evolved to eat what and what happens if you don't eat right for your metabolic type. Some people need a lot of protein; if they don't get it their health suffers. S ome need a lot of fats..likewise. Some do just fine on vegetarian diets and high carb/grain diets. They are considered virtuous somehow. Some people with other metabolisms try to put themselves on the virtuous diet and become unhealthy. It is a mess. THe key is finding out what your own particular body needs. It might surprise you.

mg

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Beccy
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 05:05 PM

Peg- I hope your friend's health improves. I'm sorry for his troubles.

I wanted to mention to you, though, that the Lenten season IS about sacrifice. Those of us who are Christian believe that Christ made the ultimate sacrifice and this is a way of honouring his sacrifice. So while I understand your point about reevaluation, I think the Lenten season is, by its very nature, one to consider sacrifice. That's all.

I will pray for your friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Padre
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 07:59 PM

There used to be two puppet characters who came to Sunday School on Quinquagesima (the Sunday before Ash Wednesday) to help us understand Lent. They were named GUS and TOM, which stood for Give Up Something and Take On More.

I tell my parishioners that simply giving up some 'pleasure' during Lent which you immediately resume at Easter (chocolate comes to mind first!!!) is self-defeating.

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 08:18 PM

Padre, I like GUS and TOM. But what sort of sacrifice do you suggest to your parishioners? And do the faithful celebrate only Great Lent or are other Lenten periods observed as well.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 08:40 PM

HMMMM. Don't see anyone giving up Mudcat....

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: PeteBoom
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 10:33 PM

Me? I'm giving up BS threads - starting now.

Cheers -

Pete

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Peg
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 11:20 PM

Mary;
I do not think eatng beef (especally naturally-raised beef) is as big a problem as eating virutally no fruits or vegetables...all evidence suggests humans are natural meat eaters. It's how MUCH of it we eat, and what ELSE we eat, (or don't) that seems to be the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: harpgirl
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 12:02 AM

Nathan went on a thirty hour fast last weekend for world hunger at his church. I was very proud of him. Food is important to him so this fast was his first attempt at demonstrative sacrifice, and he raised a bunch of money for the sponsored children in his church group. He is almost six four and weighs in the neighborhood of 280, so it was a challenge to him. Yeah, Nathan!   mom

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 05:23 AM

Linda and I have decided to give up Celibacy for Lent ever (or at least as long as we can manage to keep it up).

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 01:45 PM

If you can manage to keep it up, why give it up?

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Peg
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 12:43 PM

Beccy;
I'm not a Christian any longer. So I don't really engage with the season of Lent in a religious way. But this thread made me think about its meaning because I used to take part in it. My post was a way for me to explore my thoughts about this concept, as one who was raised Catholic but now no longer follows that viewpoint. My views have evolved to coincide with my spiritual beliefs. For me, reevaluation works better, conceptually, than sacrifice.

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Gervase
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 01:00 PM

As another lapsed RC, Peg, I rather like the idea of 're-evaluation'. Thanks for sharing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Lenten fast?
From: Burke
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 06:01 PM

As an un-lapsed Protestant, I also like the re-valuation. I know I started the thread with what's being given up, but it is possible to observe Lent without any 'sacrifice' per say. This is because Lent is overarchingly a penitential season. This would include re-evaluation before anything else, when you get right down to it. Even if you don't think in terms of sin, penitence, etc. you can look at your life & see what you think needs changing.

It seems to me it is after the evaluation that one can think about & begin, sacrifices, new ways of acting & living, apologizing to anyone you owe it to, etc. Fasting can also be part of the evaluation process as well. This is an ancient spiritual exercise from many religions.

It struck me, that if we have 40 days of reflection, etc., we might not really know yet what we should be doing. Easter also being a time for new beginnings, I think maybe the next 6 weeks can also be a time of deciding what next. I think maybe the TOM will wait until then. I'm not trying to preach a sermon here, just thinking out loud.

Peg, I apprecite your talking about your friend & what the season can still mean to you. I know it was inadvertant but I got a laugh out of your saying, "I used to be an ex-Catholic."

I think this discussion has been instructive, just to see how people approach Lent differently.

I have decided to limit my Mudcating to post 5:00 PM. I guess that makes it a partial fast :-)