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Booking Sucks!
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Subject: Booking Sucks! From: JedMarum Date: 06 Mar 03 - 04:56 PM I am so frustrated with the business end of this job that I could just kick somebody! Try to get a phone call, a reply to a letter, or a response to an email in this f*cking business and you'll know what I mean. Damn! I've knocked on so many doors that I'm back around again knocking on the same ones that wouldn't open the first time. A man could go hungry in this business! |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: denise:^) Date: 06 Mar 03 - 05:01 PM Or, as one of my partners puts it, "You can make TENS of dollars in folk music..." It's always fun, too, when they book you for an event, and then call a day or two beforehand to tell you it's been cancelled. Or, perhaps they call and change the requirements completely. (You may have a contract, but is it really for enough money to bother taking them to court? And what will that do to your/your band's reputation?) Having had period costumes made for a cancelled event(which *you,* of course, pay for) only adds to the general hilarity. Denise:^) |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: MMario Date: 06 Mar 03 - 05:01 PM Jed - on the other hand - I have people call the help desk - frantic to get a repair. They do not provide enough information to process the ticket. e-mail them. , phone them, leave voice mail, - wait three weeks, repeating calls daily they call back - why hasn't this been fixed?!?!?! I explain. But somehow - it's my fault. |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Susanl Date: 06 Mar 03 - 05:28 PM Geez, I thought it was just me. I've sent out countless CDs, e-mails, made phone calls and sent more e-mails and haven't heard back from anyone. I sure don't expect to hear back from EVERYone but I thought at least SOMEone might respond if only to tell me not to quit my day job. I have this pathological fear of annoying people and this only exacerbates it. I wish I knew what the RIGHT thing to do is. |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Kim C Date: 06 Mar 03 - 05:47 PM And Oh Jed, don't you just LOVE all the people who say how much they loved your show, and OH we'd LOVE to have you come and play at suchandsuch can we have your card... then you give them your card, and maybe a CD, and you never hear from them again? |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: DonMeixner Date: 06 Mar 03 - 05:53 PM Quit whining you bunch of gutless sops! Get your chins off your chests and sing! You are not a bunch of Doctors or lawyers that have just buried another patient or lost that deathrow appeal for your client! Jesus you could be worse off than that! You could be school teachers instead. Remember you are the best thing there is to be, ou are Folk Singers and you .... are.... Nuts Nevermind. bye Don |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Clinton Hammond Date: 06 Mar 03 - 06:41 PM Stephen Fearing closes his email with this quote... "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."--Hunter S. Thompson |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: harvey andrews Date: 06 Mar 03 - 07:25 PM Get an agent. They take all your rejections and only give you the good news.Oh, by the way, welcome to the asylum. |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Bev and Jerry Date: 06 Mar 03 - 07:50 PM Jed: Here's three rules that might help a bit. Rule 1. When you contact someone, always be sure the next required action is yours, not theirs. If you call and don't reach someone, call back. If you leave a message, don't ask them to call you, say you'll call them. In a letter, don't write "call me if you're interested", write "I'll call you in a week". Rule 2. Persistence furthers. Rule 3. See rule 2. This is our advice after contacting more than sixteen thousand schools and booking nearly ten percent of them. Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: michaelr Date: 06 Mar 03 - 08:05 PM Jed, I hear you loud and clear! Our regular St Patrick's Day gig just fell through (the club owner didn't want to cancel his regular Monday night hip-hop karaoke nightmare) and I've spent the last five days on the phone, scrambling to get a booking at this short notice. So far no luck... it may be the first St Pat's in ten years this Celtic band doesn't play! That said, I like Bev&Jerry's Rule #1. It's the persistence thing that wears me down... Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Desert Dancer Date: 06 Mar 03 - 08:13 PM As someone who's mostly on the other end of the phone/e-mail, I can say Bev and Jerry have it exactly right. I work for a small non-profit, out of my home, amid the rest of my life. If I've not heard of you and/or if you don't immediately seem like a good fit for my organization's limited energies - budget - genre - schedule, then I may not take the time to reply to say "sorry". (I also spend a certain amount of time and energy feeling guilty about this, for what that may be worth to you.) Sometimes, those who persist get past that, if they sound like nice folks on the phone and they can convince me otherwise. (Yes, it's highly subjective.) For the record, I do get impatient with those who persist in spite of my clear answers that there is not a good fit. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: DebC Date: 06 Mar 03 - 09:44 PM It always seems that just about the time I am about to kick the dog (and I don't even have a dog) out of the same frustrations that Jed talks about, something good happens: a nice gig comes through, a presenter to whom I had sent a promo parcel emailed to say how much they love it and to let them know when I'll be in their town, etc. Yes, it is very frusrating, but it is a small price to pay for doing what I love. Deb Cowan |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Richie Date: 06 Mar 03 - 11:02 PM Jed, I do booking for the Piedmont Guitar Soc. as well as booking my two bands and solo playing. Fortunately my teaching & etc. pays the bills so I don't have to play to survive. I get 50-100 solicitations from performers wanting to play for the PGS that I do not know. Usually I don't have the time to look at most of the requests to play. The best thing to do in my opinion is: Before you do anything- take an interest in what they are doing. Make sure that this would be the right situation for you before you invest your time and energy. Try to help their society, club or group, see if you can help them asking nothing in return. After doing some research and joining the society, making a donation to the group etc. you are ready to contact them. 1) Make a phone call and talk directly to the person who does the booking. Find out what they need. Do not send unsolicited letters or E-mail. 2) If possible meet with them in person. Take them out to lunch, establish a relationship. 3) If you can't meet with them, send them the materials that they wanted from the initial phone conversation. 4) Give them two weeks, check to see if they have received the materials. Don't be pushy. Ask them if they are interested. 5) Regardless of the outcome, thank them and check back later. 6) Remember- some people just aren't interested. It may not have anything to do with you. -Richie |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: katlaughing Date: 06 Mar 03 - 11:25 PM Try choosing out of the thousands of publishers which ones to send your book to...just as frustrating, BUT, Bev & Jerry's points are very well taken and also Richie's. All of the publishing sites tell authors to research what they publish first, before them even send in a query. FWIW, my old sales manager used to tell us the client hadn't said no until they actually kicked us out! Persistance counts, but NOT after they've been clear about it not being a good fit.:-) |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Folkiedave Date: 07 Mar 03 - 10:39 AM I book for a festival. I do try very hard to reply to virtually everything I get on the grounds that if they have bothered to contact me, the least I can do is reply even if it is a no. I am not perfect but I do try. Dave |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Kim C Date: 07 Mar 03 - 10:50 AM Yeah, I know. Things don't fall out of the sky. If I could give up my day job, I might have time to do promotions! But here is something I was thinking about the other day. There's a girl in my office who's a fantastic singer/songwriter, and she's going to Be On TV. All these people in my office who have NEVER been to see me, are falling all over themselves about her. Because of TV. It's glamorous and exciting. Now, don't get me wrong - she is very, very good. But nobody made a peep until TV. So I got to thinking about all that stuff... TV, record deals, tours, etc..... and I had to admit, I'm glad I don't have to deal with all that. I can make my own darn record when I want to, on my terms, and pick and choose what gigs I want to take, and how far I want to drive. (And I've been on TV.) Not only that, I'm in a position to be able to talk to people after I'm done playing. I don't get whisked off the stage to a secret underground bunker. Sometimes I'm tired and don't want to talk to anyone but I do anyway, and I'm always glad. Sure, I wish we had enough gigs so we could quit our day jobs. On the other hand, that would mean we'd never ever be at home. And I like my home, even if I do rent it. So, yeah, I probably could do a better job of promoting. And I probably should. In the meantime, though, I suppose it really isn't so bad. Repeat business counts for a lot. :-) |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: JedMarum Date: 07 Mar 03 - 11:24 AM good advice, y'all ... and in truth; I'm just bitchin' - I know never to wait for the phone to ring, and never to ask and wait for them to get back to me ... I know even when you get through and they like what they hear, they still won;t call you back ... You gotta beat the f*ckin' door down for every single small gain - that's all I'm bitchin' about. And I know there's good reason too. I know these poor bastards are swamped with 100 others like me tryin' to get passed their door. They end up workin' a path that says "better the devil that you know ..." so I until I push my way into being that devil, I ain't goin' anywhere! The good news is though, once I get in, it's easier to stay in! This really is an aspect of the job I dislike, though. |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Bat Goddess Date: 07 Mar 03 - 11:45 AM I had probably the most frustrating experience of my life in 1981 or so when I was asked to book a tour for an English performer I had met. I was entirely inexperienced in booking/selling a performer (especially long distance), but I had her contact list, knew where she had successfully performed before, etc. I found that with folk clubs, by the time I had reached a point of a contract, the person I was dealing with had changed and I was back to square one. Knowing what I do now about promotion and sales, I'd probabably do a lot better, but it I have such negative feelings about the whole experience that I can't bring myself to try. (So I just limit myself to producing Tom's promo materials.) On the whole, though, I think Bev and Jerry's advice can't be beat. And not just for booking! Linn |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Kim C Date: 07 Mar 03 - 12:11 PM Well, Jed, anyone that ain't choosing you for their devil is missing out, that's what I say. :-) |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: DonMeixner Date: 07 Mar 03 - 12:19 PM As an aggregate of performers, music societies, writers, and artists at all levels in the field, aren't we also in a position to help our Jed Marum's through those doors. Don't just commsserate, give him a listen. Get the Mucat CD's and be aware of who we are and if possible, book Jed in your venue. But go beyond Jed too. There are many of us who play and perform that may fit a venue another Mudcatter is part of. And we may be traveling your way. If we don't support ourselves then the big machines have won and the folk process is defeated. Don |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Fortunato Date: 07 Mar 03 - 12:19 PM Hey, Jed, today Susette mailed you some pictures of you in your recent role of "Nanuck of the North". Maybe the laugh will take your mind off minor problems like starvation. cheers, chance. |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Genie Date: 07 Mar 03 - 12:23 PM It's reassuring (I guess) to know 'it's not about me'. On the other hand, it's sad to know it's not just retirement home administrators and activity directors who pull stunts like booking you for St, Patrick's Day (or some other prime time spot) a year ahead of time and then cancelling a few days before the gig. (Actually, I already had experience with at least one pub owner who was notorious for double and triple booking, etc.) The thing that frustrates me the most is having a very successful gig Bev and Jerry, Rule 1. When you contact someone, always be sure the next The persistence rule is important. Often, I've not sent But, denise, your partner is wrong. You can make more than As long as I don't need to earn really big bucks, I'm happy to be "singing Genie |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Rick Fielding Date: 07 Mar 03 - 12:28 PM Oh boy, you got it Jed! This summer I'll be doing gigs that Heather booked TWO YEARS AGO! My only suggestion (that I'm sure you already are aware of) is to make your phone calls EARLY in the am. The problem is simple. Acoustic music proliferation. 100 musicians want that one job. Probably 85 of them are not even in your league....but the presenter doesn't know that. Cheers buddy Rick |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Rapparee Date: 07 Mar 03 - 01:37 PM Don's right. We should help each other. I've been unemployed since last June, and without a paycheck coming in since September. One thing that comes up, over and over and over, in every session on how to get a job, is networking. Cold calls rarely land a job. Sending out resumes like a shotgun sends out pellets almost never works. *Most jobs are landed because someone you know knew someone who was looking for someone like you and could give you the name of their friend.* If you're lookin' for a bookin', you're lookin' for a job. Networking works -- I know, 'cause it helped me to find a job. I start on May 5. --Mike |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Bev and Jerry Date: 07 Mar 03 - 01:57 PM After reading this thread so far, we had some further thoughts. Rule 4. Keep meticulous records of every phone call and letter from you or to you. Rule 5. "No" means "no" until someone else is doing the booking. Our most common entries in our records are "Wait for new principal" or "Call next year and see if there's a new PTA president". Rule 6. Booking sucks! We made our living playing folk music in schools for over 20 years but it meant writing over 1000 letters per year and making over 6000 phone calls per year. Genie is right. Performing is only a small part of the job. We have a friend who, when asked what he does for a living says, "I'm a telemarketer and, occasionally, I play a gig." That's why we retired a couple of years ago. Now we spend less than five percent as much effort booking and we play about twenty five percent as many gigs. Loving it. Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Maryrrf Date: 07 Mar 03 - 03:50 PM Hi, I can only commiserate with Jed on this one and it's good to know it isn't just me. I know they people who do the bookings are swamped. I just wish they would REPLY - yes or no or SOMETHING - at least you'd know where you stood. I guess not replying is a negative reply of sorts but it just leaves you dangling. I've been calling around trying to set up a tour of Scotland for the fall. I don't know how many booking's I'll get, but I have to say that every one of the people (mostly from folk clubs)I've called have been so nice and gracious over the phone. I'm absolutely amazed. |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Bev and Jerry Date: 07 Mar 03 - 04:31 PM Maryrrf: Not replying is not necessarily a negative response. Sometimes it means "I'm busy now" or "I forgot" or "I lost your stuff". Many is the time we have called someone after they promised to call and didn't only to hear "I'm glad you called". Historically, we have gotten more than ten no's for every yes. Worse yet, it has taken an average of six phone calls to get either no or yes. This means we made more than sixty calls to get each gig. See rules 2 and 3 above. Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Mark Ross Date: 07 Mar 03 - 04:38 PM Hell, after 35 years of trying to do this for a living I finally figured it out; The only way you get an agent is when you can show that you have absolutely no need for one. Mark Ross |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Maryrrf Date: 07 Mar 03 - 05:42 PM Well, for some people does it ever reach the point where people come to you instead of you having to scrabble for bookings? Surely there must be a fortunate few who break through that barrier. I guess by the time that happens they've already got agents who do the legwork. One thing for sure, a good agent is sure worth his weight in gold! |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: reggie miles Date: 07 Mar 03 - 05:53 PM Yup, I'm givin' this music stuff up for Lent. There's got to be an easier way to torture myself. |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Maryrrf Date: 07 Mar 03 - 09:24 PM Well, I just got a call from somebody who liked my demo and booked me. So they don't all fall into black holes, thank goodness! God knows, it's hard though. |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: GUEST,Dave Date: 08 Mar 03 - 12:51 AM I am a folk/acoustic presenter and receive hundreds of demos a year. (Sadly, the majority of these aren't very good). What I don't want is a studio production. I want to hear what your act will sound like on my stage. What I want to know is how you will sustain the interest of my audience for two hours. Send the material and follow up with a phone call in 3-4 weeks. If I (or any other presenter) say I can't use you, believe it and don't persist. I listen to every submission (mostly in my car) even if I zap through it after 10 seconds per track. As a volunteer, I don't have the money or time to make long distance calls to tell you you don't suck too badly but we can't use you. Send a "live" CD (tapes tell me you haven't invested in yourself). Send me the lyrics. If I like the sound I WILL spend the time to try to understand what you are saying. Duos, trios and more have a better chance of getting a booking because of the harmony/instrumentational variations. If you are a solo act with a guitar, you better sing well, play fingerstyle well and be able to "entertain" (i.e. "amuse") in between songs. You need a repertoire of two hours of "A" material and some good stories to tell while you a replacing a broken string. There are literally thousands of "guys with guitars" out there and it is tough to pick out one among the many. If you are a songwriter and only perform your own material, tell me a story. I'm not interested in "I, me, mine" songs (younger acts are most guilty of this). Jeb, I hope this helps you to understand the other side of the equasion. |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Art Thieme Date: 09 Mar 03 - 06:03 PM Jed, I comiserate with you----really do. I hated the biz end of this and took it as long as I could. Then I got lucky and found an agency that did all the school booking for me for 20 years (winter work) and sent me a list of where to be and who to contact for particulars and directions. Also, I got a job singing on the Mississippi River 5 months a year for a decade (summer work) at a time I was beginning to go downhill physically. That summer and winter work dovetailed just great. Then I could let folks who really wanted my music call me if and when they wanted to. And I didn't have to get depressed pushing myself and talking to people who didn't want the old folksongs I loved at their venue any more. (Best get out of here before I say more than I ought to.) Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: JedMarum Date: 09 Mar 03 - 08:51 PM Dave - yeah, I believe I do understand the other side of the equation - even though I was bitchin' - I know that the 'gatekeepers' are sometimes pros, sometime volunteers, some are good at what they do, some are not - and ALL are probably swamped. I know they care more about what I would do with their audience, not what a studio might do for me ... the best way I think to get that point across is to talk about track record/resume, and provide a CD sample. Track record demonstrates what venues have found you valuable in the past (and presumably what you did with their audience) and CD gives a good idea of what you sound like. I haven't invested in a live demo yet (although one of the released CDs is from a live show). I am hoping to capture a video sometime in the near future - but cost is an issue; I've got lotsa CDs so they are my demo, for now. Art - I'd like to try working schools. I'm not sure how to go about it, though. I'm still trying to figure out how to get enough festivals to make it work - and then work pubs or house concerts in between. Mudcatters have actually been very helpful, in one case providing me a house concert opportunity and a cafe gig - and in others pointing me in the right direction for venues or people who can help. I love this place! |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 09 Mar 03 - 09:32 PM Id like to say a word for the people who run the concert series. Having done so for 27 years. I've read all the complaints in this thread, and as a performer can make just about every one of them. And add a list of my own. But, running a concert series is a phenomenal headache, too. When I started running the concert series I did, I only had 8 bookings a year. Divide that into the number of people who send cassettes and records (in those days), and try to bring some musicians back once every three or four years, and the math pretty much speaks for itself. For the first few years, I listened to every cassette or record anyone sent me (no matter how good or bad.) I wrote to every person, and tried to encourage them in the most positive way that I could. Some, I was able to book two or three years later, and I made sure to explain the limitations for slots that I was working with. Some sent music that didn't fit the focus of my series, which was American traditional folk (I worked in a Museum which limited my ability to book musicians from othe countries because of our by-laws.) Some cassetes were very good, but the music was electric, or too singer/songwritery to fit the series. And, while most musicians would agree, people who run a series DO have some idea what kind of music their audience will respond to. I used to go nuts when someone would say, "I can play for any audience, just let me get up on stage." Not so, my friends. I was grateful when someone said to me that my music wasn't a good fit for their audience. Beat driving three or four hundred miles for a percentage of the gate to play before an unappreciative audience. From the coffee house runners perspective, they can come up with almost as long a list of complaints about folk musicians. I just about had to beg a lot of the musicians I'd book to send me photos and PR material. Too often, they wouldn't do it despite repeated requests, and when I couldn't get much of a news release printed, or get photos in the paper and they drew a small crowd, they blamed it on me. And, if you think folk musicians get lousy pay, try running a coffee house. I stand up and PRAISE everyone who runs a coffee house! They end up putting up and feeding the performers, often end up paying for the endless long distance phone calls they have to make, sweat bullets when the audience doesn't show and they have to pay for the use of space, and haven't brought in enough at the gate to pay the performer. Their hand always ends up going in their own pocket. I was fortunate because I had a Museum staff to help with publicity, set-up and refreshments, and at least some of the cost for long distance phone calls came out of the Museum's pocket. Like everyone else who runs house concerts or coffee houses, I did it because I enjoyed doing it. As the years went by, and the number of unsolicited cassettes and records multiplied many-fold, I found it impossible to write a personal letter to everyone, no matter how much I wanted to. I was just too swamped with requests. At the same time, the audience was getting older, and smaller, and most concerts were losing money. It finally came time to let it go. I don't regret a minute I put into it, and I imagine that very few people who have run coffee houses or concert series do, either. So, here are my kudos for people like Fortunato, who not only did my booking for a split night at the Royal Mile, in Silver Springs, MD. but arranged for a house concert in D.C. And to friends who offered the use of their house, and then came to hear me the next night at the Royal Mile. Here's to Kathy Westra who persisted in booking the Gospel Messengers in D.C. last summer, and Dennis and Judy Cook who offered hospitality for Brother Joe and Corrie, and a luxurious brunch for us the following morning. Folk bookers, hosters and hostesses, sound folks, ticket sellers, CD sellers, food givers, lodging providers and all the rest... You are wonderful. So are most of the people who do the bookings, at their own expense. Even the ones who never booked me because they thought I wasn't good enough. And sometimes told me so... Jerry |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Frankham Date: 09 Mar 03 - 09:47 PM The most important thing I think in dealing with a client is to be honest and concerned about their needs. Do I fit if it's a party they're having? Don't assume that they know what they want. Sometimes you have to explore that in depth with them. If I don't feel right about it, I suggest someone else that would work. Sometimes I take a chance and try something different that I have a hunch will work. For example, I had a banjo-playing friend who got a call for mandolin. He plays banjo for the most part but his response was "How soon do you need it?" He learned what he needed to know in the allotted time and had a successful gig. I've had some interesting gigs this way. Flexibility is a state of mind. The booking can be fun. But it's something that we do because we love what we're doing and I am very grateful to be able to do this for a living. We are supplying a needed service. Schools need acts with educational as well as entertaining value. Clients for the most part really want you to be able to deliver what they want. I would say that from my experience with agents, that part of the business usually sucks. Down here where I live, the agents will sell a gig for an inflated amount, take a huge percentage and give the artist maybe about one/third of the proceeds. So I am grateful to be able to do my own business and get hired. Nothing about this sucks for me. It's a small price to pay for love. I try to stay out of the commercial music biz game. The closer you get to pop music and it's ancillary business practices, the crazier it gets. Those who reach for the "brass ring" might want to be careful about what they wish for. |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Art Thieme Date: 10 Mar 03 - 11:34 AM Right on, Jerry. I do understand. It IS pretty much that big old "bottom line" thing for all of us. We do / did what we loved to do --- the music---and it was wondrous to be our own bosses. As Jimmy Buffet said in his great song "He Went Tp Paris". SOME OF IT'S MAGIC, AND SOME OF IT'S TRAGIC, BUT I'VE HAD A GOOD LIFE ALL THE WAY." I could add, Some of it is just damn frustrating--- and after all the years, one gets to seeing it might be better to be home...for the health of all concerned. But, kids, go for it !!! That's what testosterone and estrogen and youthful energy are for ! Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Maryrrf Date: 10 Mar 03 - 05:52 PM Today I finally reached a booking agent I'd been trying to reach for two days - had to call and call till he finally picked up the phone. He apologized and said he gets calls CONSTANTLY from far more people than he can possibly book. He was polite and friendly when I talked to him. I guess that's the problem - these folks are just swamped because there's too many musicians out there. |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: DebC Date: 10 Mar 03 - 06:23 PM Yes, wearing the hat of booking agent, publicist, tour manager not to mention being the musician is very frustrating. But on the other hand, the fact that I love what I do makes it all worth while, and I am glad that I chose to leave the "other" job for music. Debra Cowan |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Peter T. Date: 10 Mar 03 - 06:24 PM There can never be too many musicians out there. There can be too many to make a living! yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Steve Latimer Date: 10 Mar 03 - 06:25 PM To offer a little encouragemnt, my sister who posted her frustrations above just got a call from the Vital Spark Folk Club and has confirmed that she'll be opening for the Arrogant Worms in May. (I would suspect that Rick & Heather might have had some input). Like Herb Tarlek, I've been in sales all of my life. As frustrating as this must be for you guys, it's just like sales. Keep on doing it, often when you are most discouraged and feel like giving up somebody that you have been trying to get in touch with will finally call you back with good news. In the words of Bob Dylan, Keep on Keepin' on. |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Fortunato Date: 11 Mar 03 - 01:18 PM Jerry, thanks for the kind words. We do our best down here in the folk ghetto of Silver Spring and our association with the Mudcat has greatly facilitated our efforts to book, house, feed, (and most important) befriend every good performer who comes our way. Recently Jed did a house concert with us that was very rewarding for all who participated, and without the Mudcat it would never have happened. And that, of course is only one example. I fervently hope that the Mudcat grows to become a network of booking possilities, house concerts, venues and festivals. Let's do our best, all of us, to get the music of our 'family' heard. I'll continue to do my share, whenever and wherever I can. cheers, Chance Shiver |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Deni-C Date: 12 Mar 03 - 05:14 AM I book gigs and also play them.... MAYBE this simple little idea will help us all. I've been sending out full CDs. In the last four weeks I've got 9 gigs and guest spots and five more promised to schedule in, but it's been a hard slog and the CDs are worth £12 each to us. I've now reverted to smaller targeted demos, which are cheap to post. contempoary, trad. and original. People can choose which to listen to, which takes less time and proves you care about what material they are interested in. BUT it occurred to me. When I was a freelance writer (pays a lot better than music) I put a postcard (stamped second class and addressed with a brief message.) something like..... I have received your demo. I am interested in booking you please give me a call on ......................to chat about your requirements. / sorry we have no opportunities at the moment and a signed by space................ This sounds positive from your point of view, and hopefully takes more care of their time and money and makes replying easier. What do you think. Is this a good idea??? I'm going to try it and will let you know how I get on. The only snag I can think of is that it makes it TOO easy for people to say no..... don't give up. If everyone tells you how good you are, you'll probably make it in the end. Or someone with more persistence will push you right out of the way. Good luck. Deni Mad Rush PS if anyone knows a. mcphie, who rang me to ask for a gig in Plymouth UK would you ask her if she'd like my email again it's madrushfolk@btopenworld.com I tried to email her and couldn't get the address to work!!!!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Deni-C Date: 12 Mar 03 - 05:25 AM I made some of these response postcards yesterday. Wording redefined as this: Thank you for listening to our demo please tick the boxes and send the card back to us no stamp needed. Tick boxes with the following wording. We'd like to book you, please phone ..........................to decide a date. Sorry, no opportunities at the moment. Please try another time. I'd like to keep the CD. If you send stamps and labels I'll post it back to you I'll pass the CD to someone else who books folk acts. signed................ name and folk club, gig or festival name.................. And remember what they say in newspaper feature writing (well they said it to me anyway) 'it takes several articles before anyone actually takes notice.' and in showbiz and folk music, 'it takes 20 years to become an overnight success....' ..............and on a happier note, a musician (very talented) phoned me the othr day to see if I had received his demo. I did and I wanted to book him but was thinking about how to squeeze him in.... He sounded so dragged down, I took pity on him and will risk the wrath of my club committee. I strongly believe, we have to try to support visiting musicians. If we don't, who will. D |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Maryrrf Date: 12 Mar 03 - 09:03 AM This is a good idea about the postcards. Lots of time it would be good to know one way or the other instead of just being in limbo. Let us know if you get any responses. At what point do you usually phone to see if they received the demo. I have to confess I hate making these phone calls - I feel I'm being so annyoying. But there doesn't seem to be any other way. Do you usually allow two weeks or so? |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Deni-C Date: 12 Mar 03 - 10:28 AM 2 or 3 weeks, or maybe an email first, then a call..... D |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Deni-C Date: 12 Mar 03 - 11:33 AM Let me share an email that made me respond favourably. The agent wrote. Dear Deni, Blah blah this is just a courtesy email (Oh! I think, someone's being courteous and called me dear, a good start, we're friends already) to check you received blah blah's demo (this lets me know she values it and him, good impression again.) Please, let me know if you have any openings, but even if you don't I am interested in receiving all and any feedback about this particular act (She values my opinion, she'll take negative crits, she'll discuss it with me and I won't be forced into taking an act I can't use. hell, she might even listen to my problems with money and an audience who'd rather sing themselves than listen to someone else...) etc..etc.... She's doing her job of selling her performer, well without being over the top.... On the other hand, a really great performer, who wrote well and really sold himself on paper and on stage, turned out to be very arrogant and unfriendly in person. The audience got the feeling he wasn't really WITH them when the gig was over.... You really have got to be a good people-person, or if you're not, take someone along who is, to chat up the CD buyers and the people who're booking you. They had you once becuase they liked your music, but they'll give you repeat business because they like YOU, you're pro, you're reliable, you'll put bums on seats and you won't treat them like lackeys. good luck, you'll need it Deni (Book into one of my seminars about selling yourself..... :-} ) |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Phil Cooper Date: 12 Mar 03 - 04:18 PM When I was first booking Margaret and myself, I sent out self-addressed, stamped envelopes. Sometimes even self-addressed stamped return packets for the demo tapes (this was the old days). I got so few back that I felt it was a waste of money. The few who did respond thanked me, but it was just a couple out of hundreds. I, too, dislike cold calling and try to contact folks via email first. It'd be great to have someone do the work for us, but in the end, we are the people most interested in getting ourselves bookings. As DebC mentioned earlier, you can't place a value on the great gigs we gotten to do over the years. You also can't place a value on the friends we would never have met if we hadn't played music. |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: reggie miles Date: 12 Mar 03 - 10:42 PM 'it takes 20 years to become an overnight success....' Deni, you mean I gotta lock myself in for the big double sawbuck if I expect to to any fruit on this vine? Zoinks! I don't know if I can hold out. I'll be clear past my (mid)life crisis by then and well into my latelife Chrysler and with the price of gas skyrocketing as it is and the way that thing guzzles I'll never make it to a gig without runnin' outta gas and ca$hola. |
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Subject: RE: Booking Sucks! From: Maryrrf Date: 12 Mar 03 - 10:53 PM I e-mail too but find that the e-mails are not answered very often - sometimes, but not many. Kind of surprising, because with an e-mail it's easy to just hit "reply" and say something like "send your demo" or "not interested at this time". On the other hand if you keep calling you MAY eventually get them on the phone, except for the ones who never pick up the phone and just have all calls answered by the machine. Then I guess they sort through the ones they want to return. Very frustrating! |
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