BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Again

Subject: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 10:41 PM

Yep, just when you thought that the "law of averages" would finally break right for Bush, he goes and blows it again!!!!???!!!!....

Yep, in tonight's live "Press Conference" which pre-empted every thing else on the radio, TV and even *rental movies* (figure that one out...) Bush failed his final *Dale Carnagie Sales Exam* yet again!!!! Unbelievable!!!! Dale even took him asisde and told him that the most important part of salesmanship is to keep over-riding objections but when it came to the exam: Bush Choked again!

Yep, the usual dribble about Saddam is a bad man and he's doing this and that! No evidence, as per usual! Nothing...no, make tghat absolutely nothing... new. Same old tired lies.

Isn't Bush smart enough to realize that getting up and gtelling the same old lies is *not* helping his cause?

Well, I think it's an IQ thing...

The average IQ of the world's population is 100 and Bush's is much less. Therefore, every time he opens his mouth, there are more folks out there looking at each other and saying, "Hmmmmm, this guy really is an idiot!"

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: curmudgeon
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 11:43 AM

I think it was Josef Goebbels who said: Tell a big enough lie often enough and it becomes true.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 11:56 AM

I think it was Josef Goebbels who said: Tell a big enough lie often enough and it becomes true.

You mean like this one?

ElBaradei: Proof Iraq Imported Uranium Was Fake

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The head of the U.N. nuclear agency said on Friday that the documents backing U.S. and British allegations that Iraq (news - web sites) had attempted to import uranium from Niger were "not authentic."

"Based on thorough analysis, the IAEA has concluded ... that these documents, which formed the basis for the reports of recent uranium transactions between Iraq and Niger, are in fact not authentic," International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei said in a report to the U.N. Security Council.

"We have therefore concluded that these specific allegations are unfounded," he said.

Britain and the United States alleged Iraq had attempted to revive a nuclear weapons program that was neutralized by the United Nations (news - web sites) before U.N. inspectors left Baghdad in December 1998 on the eve of a U.S.-British bombing raid.

The claim Iraq had attempted to import the uranium was vital to the U.S. accusation, since it would not have needed the uranium for anything other than an atomic weapons program.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 12:04 PM

you wonder...if we invade Iraq, and toss out Saddam, as looks likely, and search all over the country and do NOT find any serious weapons, will the idiots be foolish enough to try to plant some, or just lie and claim they found some?

There will be too many eyes, journalists, newly friendly Iraqis and 'honest' inspectors to allow a BIG lie. Or will they just obfuscate by emphasizing that Saddam was a naughty dictator, and it was worth it anyway to be rid of him?

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 12:12 PM

They reported on NBC news last night that the pentagon had word that Iraqi special forces were going to wear fake US and British Uniforms and commit "atrocities".

This just keeps getting stranger and Stranger.

"You can't fight in here, this is the War Room."
(from Dr. Strangelove)

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: GUEST,Casual Observer
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 12:16 PM

So, Bobert, do you have any evidence that the President is lying? Do you have any evidence of his IQ being below 100?

If you accuse him of not providing any evidence, why do you not provide any yourself?

Do not get me wrong. I did not vote for him. But if you are going to say things about a person, I believe it's only fair you back them up with facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 12:17 PM

They reported on NBC news last night that the pentagon had word that Iraqi special forces were going to wear fake US and British Uniforms and commit "atrocities".

I think that falls into the category of "covering your ass". I guess the US and UK forces now have carte blanche to do whatever they like.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 12:22 PM

It was reported on Yahoo, through Drudge a day or two before: clcikety.

In the meantime, a lawyer who refused to remove his "Give Peace A Chance" t-shrt, at the request of security guards at a shopping mall in America, where he bought the shirt, was arrested for said refusal!! Strange world indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 12:23 PM

so? for another 100 million, the 101st Airborne can be fitted with Iraqi uniforms and walk right into Bagdhad and....

I propose that the whole thing be settled by one man-to-man combat, unarmed, between Saddam and a champion to be named for the US! ...now, lets, see....hmmm.. Jesse Ventura has time on his hands these days...*grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: GUEST,Dreaded Guest
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 12:38 PM

The whole thing was scripted, Bobert. Bush only called on pre-determined reporters and read his answers off the pages on his podium. And today all the texts of the press conference are inaccurate. They edited out the bad parts. At one point he screwed up and admitted the whole thing was 'scripted', but today it's reported he said 'un-scripted.'

His bad performance is due to either alcohol abuse or a breakdown in his brainwashing. The CIA brainwashing his father is so fond of. GW isn't up to governing or brinksmanship, so he's been sedated, either through brainwashing or alcohol. Or it could be drugs.

And by the way, look at the transcript and substitute 'GWBush' for 'Saddam Hussein'. It all applies...'GWBush' is a terrorist, has weapons of mass destruction, is a danger, tortures people, he invades other countries, he finances al Qeada (CIA group),etc. This is just more of the sick psycho-game. Criminals like to brag about their crimes, and last night GWBush TOLD us who the criminals are...rubbed our faces in it. All you have to do is think 180 degrees opposite...everything he told us SADDAM is doing, the BUSHES are doing. The TERRORISTS are the ones claiming they're ANTI-TERRORIST.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: DougR
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 01:24 PM

Bobert: you're so full of it! That was a great speech. You just didn't enjoy the content.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 01:26 PM

That's what I read as I looked at the script..."he's talking about himself."

I also read this was his first press conference since last November and only his second during Prime Time. Keeping him on a tight rein, eh? Not tight enough for my taste!

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 05:29 PM

"...That was a great speech.."

bong...beep...eeeeepppppp... all oxymoron and non-sequitor alarms (mine are VERY sensitive) go off as someone uses "great speech" in a reference to "the Shrub"...

you may disagree about whether the content was tolerable, Doug (you hear what you WANT to hear)...but please, don't pretend that he can deliver his message in coherent sentences more than a few simple words long!

I didn't care for the politics of Nixon, Reagan, Bob Dole or Barry Goldwater...but any of them could at least talk without pre-digested, over-simplified slogans as the major component of their message!

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: DougR
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 05:41 PM

Well Bill D, I suppose you're right. One hears what one wants to hear. But I think it was a well delivered speech, and that he handled the questions from the press well. He could be as silver tongued as William Jennings Bryant and most of the folks here would still say he was a dumbo who couldn't talk his way out of a paper bag. He is not the orator that Clinton is and Clinton is not as good as Reagan was, but the delivery is not nearly as important as what is said.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 11:32 PM

GUEST, Casual Observer:

Well, you want proof! What the hecks is going on here with everyone wanting "proof". Ya' know, the world's population is begging Bush for proof. Allied leader beggin' for proof! No one has any proof of anything, CO, but Bush has a serious "credibility" issue workin' here for him. Millions of people just palinly don't believe the guy. Now if this were about covering up an affair he had with an intern, it might be understandable. But this is about a war that could easily kill off a half a million folks. This, I think CO, is a tad more serious than a sexual encounter between two adults...

Yeah, you can ask for proof but, no I don't have it but if Bush had it he would have produced it by now...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Peg
Date: 08 Mar 03 - 12:51 PM

If only the man would learn how to use the English language properly. My favorite quotation from the press conference was "He's invading countries in his own neigborhood." (in reference to Saddam Hussein)

yeah, great content. If only his delivery were up there with Clinton's.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: DougR
Date: 08 Mar 03 - 03:21 PM

You would have perhaps preferred that he say "neighboring countries?"

If you were from Texas, Peg, you would have understood what he was talking about. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: saulgoldie
Date: 08 Mar 03 - 03:33 PM

The president is at least light in some mental areas where a president shouldn't oughtta be, that is clear. However, he has some smarts, certainly in picking his behind the scenes schemers, anyway. (Course, Daddy helped.) Unfortunately, his apparent popularity in the face of his obvious huge gaffs and gaps has everything to do with the consolidation in the news media and the fact that the story has less and less chance of getting out. It also has everything to do with the money trail, which is why the almost-campaign finance reform that was only barely passed before being challenged in court and totally circumvented was and continues to be so crucial.

With fewer news outlets taking fewer risks, and more money controlling advertising in those media, the voters are less and less relevant to the process. Throw in the latest, that many or most of the electronic voting machines making their way into operation can be overidden, nullifying dozens or thousands of votes. So nevermind Florida, it could be that none of us can ever be sure our votes get counted.

This is what happens when large numbers of people abandon their duties as citizens to learn and vote accordingly.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Mar 03 - 03:39 PM

And now we learn that Bush ahs been using *falsified and tampered* documents as his evidence. ("Some Evidence on Iraq Called Fake", Washington Post, March 8, 2002, Page A-1).Hmmmmmm?

Yeap, the PR crap about Iraq trying to acqurie "uranium" is just that: crap. Also, the crap about the "aluminum tubes"? The same: crap.

Now I know why Bush wants to get *his war* going soon. Reminds me of his legal team rushing to the Supreme Court to stop the recount in Florida. I'm begining to see a pattern of behavior here folks that smells very much like bad fish!

Hey, you won't find anywhere where I have used the "I" word but, if the US tried to impeach Bill Clinton for lieing about an affair, than I would certainly thing it would be fitting for a president who is now linked *forgery of documents* to sell a war to a world that can't understand why it needs to be started in the first place.

I'm going to write my Senator and Congressmen and tell them just that. Impeachment now needs to to be considered!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Alba
Date: 08 Mar 03 - 04:04 PM

I liked the comment..."bring his weapons to a car park ect"...is that a Texan thingy too. Maybe Mr Bush should not revert to homespun dialect or off the cuff remarks when he is putting forward a suggestion regarding weapon's of mass destruction.
As for CO requiring evidence! Mr Bush's performance with the choosen few (press) was I fear all the evidence you might need , right there in a glorious, fumbling, verbally embarrasing, prime time TV slot.
As for content....."if Hussein doesn't disarm himself...then we will"
OK got that. Again and again and again...content....please.....!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Mar 03 - 04:07 PM

Impeach? You'd rather have Dick Cheney in charge?
Remember, except for a quirk of history, we could have had Spiro Agnew following Nixon..*grin*

I'd sort of rather see if the American public has wised up in 2004, and votes the whole bunch out...if not, we are in DEEP trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Amos
Date: 08 Mar 03 - 11:06 PM

The nuclear team leader also invalidated any claim that the 81mm aluminum tubes were of any POSSIBLE use in centrifuges; likewise the scary orders for magnets. His speech tothe UN yesterday reads like the counteproint someone should have been giving Bush before he decided these were appropriate facts for a casus belli.   

I think he's the worst embarassment we have ever had in the WHite House.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 12:19 AM

BillD:

Danged good point!

Get 'em both!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 02:57 AM

Maybe it is time for some serious debating for Bush, and, Oh... how I would love to see Nader engage Bush on the issues a US president ought to be able to discuss openly. Has anyone here ever seen Bush discuss any of his 'programs' with statesmen who are not completely in agreement with him (ie. aren't on 'his' payroll)?

C'mon now George, yer acting like you are "King of the world", and yet... last I looked... you were baaaarely elected... if at all... Don't you have something better to do, George, than being a mere spokesperson for the warmakers guild? ;^)

Dale Carnagie is gonna flunk him, untill we can slam dunk him in the next election... Ihope Ihope Ihope... ttr

Vote Bush for not President anymore in 2004!

No Bush anymore in Two Thousand and Four...

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 04:48 AM

On the McLaughlin Group tonight, a couple of panelists -- and not just liberal Eleanor Clift from Newsweek, but McLaughlin himself and even conservative Pat Buchanan, were seriously saying that he appears now to have a messianic complex. McLaughlin said that people who have engaged him in conversation come away feeling he feels this religious imperative to wage this war. That he believes he has a direct connection to God and is on a mission (since 9/11, Clift said). And that, what we have here is an upcoming religious war (espec. since he is backed by the evangelical Right)! Even more scary than I realized. That was pretty apparant in his "performance" the other night. No rational thought came through, he never answered any specific question, he just went into robot mode about Saddam being bad and then he lit up when that reporter lobbed him a softball about his "faith" (I hadn't realized that this was scripted, or that the reporters were assigned, but something was wierd, because reporters let him go awfully easy).

They were saying that people who have interviewed him say that he isn't registering the cost of this war -- he can hear "$200 billion over ten years," and it doesn't sink in what this means in terms of sabatoging our future (it's something like more than the military budgets of 19 nations put together).

Also, Senator Byrd was on Larry King Friday night, and he said that in his 50 years in the Senate, this is the most secretive and arrogant administration he has ever witnessed -- that this president doesn't feel he has any need to tell the American people anything about what this will cost us. If you think about it, it gets more and more outrageous. King asked him if he felt safe. And he said, "No, for the first time since the Cuban Missile Crisis, I do not feel safe." That's pretty scary in itself, to have to hear it from someone who's served every president since Eisenhower.

He also pointed out something I too noticed -- did you hear Bush give his new rationale -- that war will actually increase peace in the middle east? That's a new one, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 04:53 AM

RE the post above -- well, I WAS JudyR -- but I guess since this is a new computer, I am "guest" once again. Better re-register.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: saulgoldie
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 08:47 AM

Let's be clear about some facts. First, whatever passes for "debate" on the national level is run by those fewer and fewer media outlets I have been relentlessly referring to. Second, other than the Nixon "five o'clock shadow" debate incident, the debates do not seem to me to have made much differenct over the years. (Oh yes, there was the Dukakis/emotion thing, too. But for the most part, my point stands.) Third, yes, Nader and some of the other non-crackpot candidates would inject some zing and provide welcome relief from the safe middle-of-the-road location that the Dems prefer, too, by the way.

But the groups and people who run the debates--refer back to the F&FMO who are interested in balance sheets rather than product have also decided that the safe middle-of-the-road location is preferable to actual content that might lead to a change of the landscape.

And finally, campaign dollars that allow a candidate to more than "correct" whatever gaffs and missteps may have taken place in debates are still more important than the debates themselves. Really, folks. Can anyone honestly say that Dubya did himself proud against Gore? I don't care what side you play, he was uninformed, inarticulate, and anything but reassuring as a potential president.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Peg
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 01:31 PM

There was such a big deal made about the fact that Bush was even holding a press conference. the first one he held afte taking (and I mean that any way you want) office was such an embarrassment that he declared (or his cabinet declared for him, since he probably was not even bright enough to see how stupidly he came off) he wouldn;t have them anymore, that he preferred a format that was more "laid back." Translation: no questions woudl be asked that the president did not already have prepared answers for, and no reporter seen as potentially hostile to the president's agenda would be invited.

When a presidential candidate stands upon a public dais in front of thousands, with cameras on him and microphones on, and refers to a nearby journalist as a "major-league asshole from the New York Times" to his running mate, and is caught on tape saying it, and when such crass, careless behavior does not cause him to lose the election, I have to admit we wre beyond rectifying this situation.

Since when is the president allowed to create the circumstances and forum within which he will be questioned by journalists? I realize this is a trend which has been coming over time and this is perhaps the worst we have seen so far, but this secrecy and arrogance is bound to grow worse and won't stop with George Bush. If a moron like this can get away with it imagine what a more cunning man would do in the future. The implications of this drift towards megalomania is terrifying. At least Ronald Reagan's holy-rollin' desire to start WWIII could be blamed on his movie-star complex and his impending senility. Bush is merely a puppet who thinks his daily prayers link him up with God Himself and justify his desire to start a holy war. I agree that this is in part about religion, I am shocked that has not come out more strongly before now.

We are headed towards dangerous times in which government commits murder and atrocity with impunity, in the name of our country, but in which citizens are increasingly treated as enemies of the state if they dare to speak out against the president's actions. And the media is complicit in this, because even if some intrepid journalist tries to expose this tyranny, their work is deemed unfit for public consumption. This chain is being tightened so fast and so furiously that even ordinary "rent-a-cop" security guards think they can impose their own political views upon innocent citizens and prevent their right to exercise freedom of expression. Witness the recent censorship of anti-war t-shirt wearers, one of whom was a lawyer who purchased the shirt in the very mall he was asked to remove it in! And the others members of a rock band whose images wearing the shirts were edited out of live concert footage because the television network concerned decided it had a policy of political neutrality...huh???

Since when does the rich and powerful media censor itself in this way?
Since now.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 05:01 PM

Absolutely right, Peg. And millions people have been so conditioned by CNN and Fox News and the like that they think it's perfectly OK. After all, the government must be right, otherwise they wouldn't be the government. Right? Don't forget Laura Bush canceling a poetry event at the White House because the poets said they planned to speak against war. "Gentlemen, you can't protest in here, this is the symbol of democracy!" Ah, well, as Moliere said in a different context, "Il faut cultiver notre jardin."

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 06:04 PM

Like I have said many times here, I less afarid of the precedences that Bush is setting than the real possibilities that our democracy has been hyjacked and these miliaristic folks who have hyjacked it just might not give it back. I say, that if the poll numbers are anywhere close in '04 that these thieves will pull the string on another 9-11, declare martial law and cancell the elections.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush fails *Dale Carnagie* Finals Aain
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 06:28 PM

No Bush. No Rush. Know More.