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PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query

GUEST,Elf (Elena) 12 Mar 03 - 04:02 PM
katlaughing 12 Mar 03 - 04:10 PM
katlaughing 12 Mar 03 - 04:27 PM
GUEST,Elf (Elena) 12 Mar 03 - 04:57 PM
GUEST,stonedagain 12 Mar 03 - 05:14 PM
Helen 12 Mar 03 - 05:29 PM
GUEST 12 Mar 03 - 05:33 PM
GUEST,Q 12 Mar 03 - 05:40 PM
GUEST,Q 12 Mar 03 - 05:43 PM
GUEST,Q 12 Mar 03 - 05:55 PM
mack/misophist 12 Mar 03 - 07:10 PM
GUEST,Q 12 Mar 03 - 07:30 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 12 Mar 03 - 07:36 PM
Bob Bolton 12 Mar 03 - 09:53 PM
Sorcha 12 Mar 03 - 10:26 PM
Blackcatter 12 Mar 03 - 10:52 PM
Blackcatter 12 Mar 03 - 11:08 PM
GUEST,Q 12 Mar 03 - 11:10 PM
Sorcha 12 Mar 03 - 11:40 PM
GUEST 12 Mar 03 - 11:46 PM
katlaughing 12 Mar 03 - 11:49 PM
GUEST,Q 12 Mar 03 - 11:50 PM
Blackcatter 12 Mar 03 - 11:51 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 12 Mar 03 - 11:52 PM
katlaughing 12 Mar 03 - 11:56 PM
michaelr 13 Mar 03 - 02:37 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 13 Mar 03 - 05:28 AM
Declan 13 Mar 03 - 05:31 AM
ard mhacha 13 Mar 03 - 05:46 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 13 Mar 03 - 05:55 AM
mooman 13 Mar 03 - 06:13 AM
Nigel Parsons 13 Mar 03 - 06:32 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 13 Mar 03 - 07:34 AM
GUEST,Elf (Elena) 13 Mar 03 - 07:55 AM
mooman 13 Mar 03 - 07:57 AM
mooman 13 Mar 03 - 08:10 AM
mooman 13 Mar 03 - 08:11 AM
GUEST,Elf (Elena) 13 Mar 03 - 08:49 AM
mooman 13 Mar 03 - 09:31 AM
GUEST 13 Mar 03 - 09:35 AM
ard mhacha 13 Mar 03 - 11:26 AM
artbrooks 13 Mar 03 - 11:49 AM
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar 13 Mar 03 - 12:59 PM
Blackcatter 13 Mar 03 - 03:09 PM
katlaughing 13 Mar 03 - 03:15 PM
Jimmy C 13 Mar 03 - 05:49 PM
GUEST,Helen, at work 13 Mar 03 - 09:10 PM
GUEST 13 Mar 03 - 10:57 PM
Elena 14 Mar 03 - 05:59 AM
artbrooks 14 Mar 03 - 07:24 AM
kai 14 Mar 03 - 07:54 AM
belfast 14 Mar 03 - 08:00 AM
Bullfrog Jones 14 Mar 03 - 08:21 AM
belfast 14 Mar 03 - 09:43 AM
John MacKenzie 14 Mar 03 - 10:25 AM
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar 14 Mar 03 - 10:57 AM
kai 14 Mar 03 - 10:59 AM
GUEST,red-faced idiot 14 Mar 03 - 01:20 PM
ard mhacha 14 Mar 03 - 01:55 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 14 Mar 03 - 01:58 PM
GUEST,,Elf (Elena) 14 Mar 03 - 02:43 PM
Elena 14 Mar 03 - 05:39 PM
mooman 14 Mar 03 - 05:45 PM
mooman 14 Mar 03 - 05:49 PM
Elena 14 Mar 03 - 07:04 PM
GUEST 07 Jan 12 - 08:48 AM
GUEST 07 Jan 12 - 11:14 AM
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Subject: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass)
From: GUEST,Elf (Elena)
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 04:02 PM

Hello, everyone!

I need your help and knowledge. Badly! The thing is, I dream of going to Ireland (and other Celtic countries) and this dream may come true if I win in a sort of competition organized here, in Moscow.. So, if you can help me, there are six unanswered questions left. All of them are about Ireland. I will be EXTREMELY grateful for any answers you can give.

1. What does each colour of the Irish flag symbolize?
2. What is a national emblem (a coat of arms) of Ireland?
3. Name the proverb, which reflects Irish benevolence in the most accurate way.
4. When does the "Soldier's Song" (Amhran na bhFiann) sound in Ireland?
5. On what holiday children are not allowed to ride bikes, but the handkerchiefs are to be hung on the clothes line (according to ancient traditions)?
6. What is a second name of Ireland – the Emerald Isle or the Isle of Saints and Scientists? Why?

Thank you in advance. If you ever come to Moscow – just write me a message and I'll be glad to show you around the city and at the same time practise my English.. :))

With best wishes, Elena.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 04:10 PM

Hello, Elena,

I added a little bit to your thread title to help entice people to come in and read your questions. I am sure some Mudcatters will be able to help you. Do you have a deadline for when you need the answers?

Good luck!

kat


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 04:27 PM

Sorry, I had a brain drain or something. It will be up to Jeff or Joe to decide what to do with this.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST,Elf (Elena)
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 04:57 PM

I didn't really understand what was so wrong about my questions.. Anyway I didn't mean to start something dangerous or cause any trouble. Sorry. And try to take it in a different way.

Elena.

Inflammatory postings made by Guest were removed at the same Guest's request. The questions are being answered and a good discussion is continuing. Please try not to let any side comments affect the remainder of this good discussion.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST,stonedagain
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 05:14 PM

Don't worry Elena, while your English is so good we all can learn how not to use Russian cliches.

So " The thing is," didn't I read,just the other day, in that ould Irish magazine, 'Ireland's Own', that sayings learned in childhood are very hard to shake off, in fact we all of us carry some baggage from the very first sentence we learned..... in our very own first langage.., and, if we did that in some other, then we would be so busy doing it -here Russian- that we could NOT notice the mistranslations.

I dink you pictor have yes?


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Helen
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 05:29 PM

Would someone like to explain - in plain English - what the problem is with this thread - if there is a problem. How do we know whether Elena's questions are genuine?

Helen


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 05:33 PM

i think the suspicion is that Elena is the number one pissant....


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 05:40 PM

If this is a flame, it is a rather tame one.

The Soldier's Song is the anthem of the Republic of Ireland, and can be found here: Soldier's Song

The anthem of Northern Ireland is, I believe, God Save the Queen.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 05:43 PM

The emblem is the harp on a field of azure.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 05:55 PM

Proverb? So many.

May you be poor in misfortune, Rich in blessings, Slow to make enemies, Quick to make friends. But rich or poor, Quick or slow, May you know nothing but happiness.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz q
From: mack/misophist
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 07:10 PM

At a time when so many traditional liberties and rights seem to be headed for the waste bin, we should all uphold them even more strongly in our personal lives. You know, things like 'innicent until proven guilty'. That kind of thing. Give the girl a chance.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 07:30 PM

Right, mesophist. The questions are all straightforward. I wish I could answer them all, but I don't know the answers.
I would like to know the answer (or story) behind the handkerchief-bicycle holiday myself.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 07:36 PM

2. May you be a half hour in Heaven before the Devil knows you're dead.

4. In addition to other occasions where the singing of a national anthem is appropriate, it also used to be sung at the end of gatherings (Comhaltas meetings, among other things, and certain trad music events, occasionally sessions, though not so much these days). Everyone would stand up together and sing or play their instrument - it was/is a sort of finale to the evening.

6. I have always heard both these nicknames used, rather interchangeably; but it's "land of saints and scholars" not scientists.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 09:53 PM

OK - I gather that the Flag is:

green, for Catholicism ...

Orange for the Protestant faith and

White to include all others -

(even if a fairly recent thread suggests one side refers to 'gold" rather than orange!).

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 10:26 PM

Well, I would think that the green would be for "The Emerald Isle" and the orange for William of Orange, "prince" of Ulster. White,I don't know, unless it's for Purity.

I thought the "badge" of Ireland was a gold harp on a green (vert)ground.

Don't know the others.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz q
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 10:52 PM

The white is for peace and harmony - the peaceful coexistence of the Orange and the Green.

I'll look around for some more.


By the way - is this or isn't this a hoax - and what would be the point?

pax yall


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz q
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 11:08 PM

1. http://www.irelandnow.com/symbols/flag.html

National Flag of Ireland

The Presidential Flag with the Coat of ArmsThe national flag is a tricolour of green, white and orange. The three colours are of equal size, vertically disposed, and the green is displayed next to the staff. Some say that the flag is gold as opposed to orange, from the gold harp on the original Green Flag.

This confusion arose in the 1916-22 period when the tricolour (the current national flag and ensign), which had previously been quite a marginal and little-known flag, was supplanting the Green Flag (the current jack) as the principal national emblem. Green and gold, the colours of the Green Flag, were regarded as the national colours throughout the nineteenth century and some of the home-made tricolours from the 1916-22 period were in fact green, white and gold. There are also some songs from that period which refer to 'green, white and gold' flags and this helped to keep the concept alive, but the symbolism of the green, white and orange dates from 1848.

The flag was first introduced by Thomas Francis Meagher during the revolutionary year of 1848 as an emblem of the Young Ireland movement, and it was often seen displayed at meetings alongside the French tricolour.

The green represents the older Gaelic and Anglo-Norman element in the population, while the orange represents the Protestant planter stock, supporters of William of Orange. The meaning of the white was well expressed by Meagher when he introduced the flag. 'The white in the centre', he said, 'signifies a lasting truce between the 'Orange' and the 'Green' and I trust that beneath its folds the hands of the Irish Protestant and the Irish Catholic may be clasped in heroic brotherhood.'

This flag didn't come into general usage until the war of independance (1919-1921). Prior to this, the green flag with gold harp was the main symbol of nationalism. t was not until the Rising of 1916, when it was raised above the General Post Office in Dublin that the tricolour came to be regarded as the national flag, but only at the creation of the first "Dail" ( House of Representatives /Commons) did the current Tricolour become widely used and its use as a national flag is firmly established in the Constitution: Article 7 of "Bunreacht na hEireann" ( constitution of Ireland) states "The National Flag is the Tricolour of Green, White and Orange."

2. http://www.gov.ie/ecbi-euro/handbook/hbook5.htm

What will be Ireland's national emblem on the euro coins?
In Ireland's case, the national emblem will be the harp and the word 'Éire'. The design for the Irish national side of euro coins is shown on the centre pages.

http://www.minogue.com/greenroom/echo93.html

Aine Minogue's website:

In Ireland, the harp is the national emblem, and has been on the coinage since the middle of the 16th century. As early as the 12th century, Irish harpers were considered by Europeans to be "incomparatively superior to that of any other nation."

3. "Ce'ad mi'le fa'ilte - One hundred thousand welcomes"


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 11:10 PM

I looked it up, Sorcha, I hope this is right.
"A harp, or stringed argent, on a field azure." The presidential standard is a blue flag with the heraldic harp.
See Harp

Many websites identify Ireland's emblem as the shamrock, but this is only a popular symbol.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 11:40 PM

OK, Q, I stand corrected.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 11:46 PM

Sorry, I had a brain drain or something.

Based on previous postings this is common occurance. Please go for medical consultation, SOON!


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 11:49 PM

Oh, garg, thank you for being here for me....your love is so transparent!


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 11:50 PM

Sorcha, I hope you "stand corrected" and I haven't copied "fakelore." Where are all the Irishmen when we need them?


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz q
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 11:51 PM

The shamrock is more closley tied to St. Patrick as well.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 11:52 PM

I am suggesting a sobriety test for the LaughKat...



Before she can access her "clone" powers.



Sincerely,

Garoyle




Or better yet........ demote her back to mortal status.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 11:56 PM

Ah, garg, admit it, you love it!


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 02:37 AM

So kat, why did you delete that first Guest posting admonishing you that this might be a flame thread? You had a knee-jerk reaction, hence your second post in reply (which doesn't make a lot of sense without that Guest posting preceding it).

I hesitate to second-guess Joe Offer when he deletes things, but I'd say lately there's ben cause for concern. But I surely take notice when you apparently delete a posting which may have caused you embarrassment.

Concerned,
Michael

As posted above, inflammatory postings made by Guest were removed at the same Guest's request. The questions are being answered and a good discussion is continuing. Please try not to let any side comments affect the remainder of this good discussion. Kat had nothing to do with it. Perhaps the postings should have stayed, but it is rare to have a Guest actually admit they were wrong and suggest that the postings be deleted because they adversely affected the discussion. Unfortunately we often seem more interested in the flames and trolls than in the actual discussion. Joe Clone


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 05:28 AM

So, does anybody know on what holiday children refrain from riding bikes and handkerchiefs are hung out? I must admit that it's a new one to me: I've lived in Ireland for 12 years and have never heard or seen evidence of it. Wonder if these details are a corruption or hybrid of some other tradition/s?

This is an interesting thread, or it can be. Who CARES if it's hoax?


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Declan
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 05:31 AM

I can't understand what all the fuss is about here, but I didn't see the deleted postings. The questions asked in the original postings are quite straightforward (although I don't know all the answers).

1. Flag answers above are accurate. I heard it as symbolising peace and harmony between the two traditions represented by Green and Orange.

2. The harp is the symbol that appears on the Irish coat of arms. The shamrock appears as a symbol in other locations, most notably on Irish sports shirts (still on Rugby, but replaced by a logo on the soccer shirt).

3. Cead Mile failte looks right, but I regard it as a greeting rather than a 'proverb' as such.

4. Amhrán na bhFiann is as Bonnie says is the National anthem and should be played at all official gatherings etc. As far as I know it should officially be played at the start of proceedings, but it is often left to the end as a wrap up to the night.

5. I haven't ridden a bike in years, but I did so as a kid and never remember anyone telling me to stop it on any particular day. Given the relative recence of the invention of the bicycle I can't see how it could be related to an ancient tradition. The short answer here is I don't know!

6. The Emerald Isle is a nickname for Ireland. The country was also known as the Island of Saints and Scholars, because of the work that Irish monks did in restoring christianity to Europe afer the dark ages in the 6th to 8th centuries. I don't think the term Scientist would have been in common use back then. Neither is an official second name. I don't know what the question setter intended but I suspect The Emerald Isle is the right answer because the other one is slightly innaccurate?


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: ard mhacha
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 05:46 AM

Declan is correct,as for the bike Question, quite simply a load of baloney, but I do wish it was cars. And I went to school with Brian Boru.Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 05:55 AM

Maybe the anachronism is just a mis-translation of something? This point also applies to scientists/scholars - they're not the same thing but you can see how a connection between the two could be made, even though it completely obliterates the original concept in the telling.

Obviously "bicycles" is wrong but was there any other mode of conveyance that people abstained from using? Two-wheeled carts, maybe? Though none of us seems ever to have heard of this custom here. (I wish it was cars too!)


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: mooman
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 06:13 AM

Sorry Ard Mhacha and others but you're wrong about the bicycles!

This is on the eve of the feastday of St Brigit (Brigid, Brighid, Bridget or Bride are all alternative spellings).

The handkerchief part is the modern day translation of the hanging up of a piece of cloth called "St. Brigit's Mantle". The bicycle part is the modern day equivalent of the avoidance of "turning a wheel" on that day.

And all of this from an Irish Buddhist!!!!

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 06:32 AM

Moo: thanks for the info. That one was annoying me, as I had vague recollections, but couldn't nail it down

Nigel


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 07:34 AM

Great stuff, Moo, thanks. And from an Irish Buddhist resident in - where is it? Belgium? - no less! St Brigid's Feast Day is 1st February, which has just passed - didn't see any hankies out and all the wheels were turning as busily as ever, but it's nice to know.

Moo, do you happen to know the significance of not turning a wheel on that day? Is it to do with abstaining from work? St Brigid was very industrious - would that have anything to do with it? Amazing what you learn on the 'Cat...


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST,Elf (Elena)
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 07:55 AM

Dear Mudcatters,

First of all I would like to thank all of you once again. I AM very grateful and surprised (in a good way) that so many people have joined the discussion.

Special thanks to those who could have suspected me of something, but decided to give me a chance.

And thanks for deleting certain postings, for, believe me, it has nothing to do with a hoax and in no way did I mean to hurt anyone's feelings..
Those who still doubt it can write me on elf-elen@mail.ru and I'll try to prove the opposite, just because I've always believed that the Irish and the Russians have something in common and can be friends (or at least not enemies). Those who would like to say something else are free to use it as well.

As for scientists and scholars it IS a mis-translation (the original questions were given in Russian and I wasn't sure enough what word to use).

P.S. To Stonedagain: which other mistranslations were you hinting at? And what does the phrase "I dink you pictor have yes? " mean (my English is not as good)?

P.S. Anyone coming to Moscow?


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: mooman
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 07:57 AM

Dear Bonnie,

Nice to speak to you again! We last met at Dorking (Chanticleer) Folk Club when I used to organise it in the late '80s - beginning of the '90s!

Yes...it is to do with abstainance from work. It was always, at least in the past, considered a somewhat special day and special meals were usually prepared. Butter ot buttermilk was particularly featured and bread and butter were often put out or on the windowsill to make St Brigit welcome as it was popularly believed that she would travel the countryside blessing the people and livestock. Also young would often dress up and travel from house to house on St Brigit's day eve entertaining and carrying the "Brideog" which was a straw doll representing the Saint.

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: mooman
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 08:10 AM

You're welcome Elena! Next time I'm coming to Moscow I'll drop you an e-mail!

Cïàcèáî!

moo


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: mooman
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 08:11 AM

...sorry "thanks" didn't translate too well from the Cyrillic!

moo


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST,Elf (Elena)
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 08:49 AM

Yes, it did! (At least with my PC)
So, have you already been to Moscow? Any impressions?


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: mooman
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 09:31 AM

Dear Elena,

It's been quite a while now but I have visited and studied for a short while in Moscow and have happy memories of it. I remember the Kremlin, Bolshoi Theatre, Red Square, Metro, University, Tretchiakov Art Gallery( don't know how to Anglicise that!) and other sights very well but the the friendliness and hospitality of the Muscovites impressed me the most. I would love to visit again in the not too distant future to see how it has changed.

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 09:35 AM

Dear moo,

You are always welcome! And don't forget to send a note..

Kindest regards, Elena.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: ard mhacha
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 11:26 AM

Mooman, I didn`t see any hankys hanging from hedges, I seen plenty hanging from noses as it was a wee bit cold on Feb 1st, nice try. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz q
From: artbrooks
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 11:49 AM

Elena, I hope you got all your answers. Please feel free to officially join us ("click "Membership")...it doesn't cost anything and we have some interesting discussions. Being a member lets you get into the chat room, which is where all the REALLY interesting discussions are!

Art Brooks


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 12:59 PM

Well done, Mooman, I totally missed the reference, in spite of ample flagging of the cult of St Brigid on the 'Cat.

Regarding 4, I understand that the practice of playing the national anthem at the end of just about every public gathering began during the first world war, when all of Ireland was part of the United Kingdom, and the anthem was "God save the King". When part of Ireland became independent (he said, choosing his words carefully), the practice was continued, using the new Irish National Anthem (Amhrán na bFhiann). The practice was largely abandoned in the 1970s, due to a number of factors. But I'm not aware of any official protocol for when it should be played, as we're generally rather relaxed about that sort of thing.

A "short version" comprising the first four and last four bars is played as the presidential salute on formal occasions to greet the arrival of the President.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz q
From: Blackcatter
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 03:09 PM

I didn't mention it earlier because of mislayed manners but,

Welcome to the Mudcat Elena!

It'd be nice to have another area of the world represented. Take a look at our membership pages - you'll see wonderful people from all over and not just from English-speaking places.

As for your grasp of English; you probably speak better to most of the 'Catters than a bunch of us southerners do!

Also about: "Ce'ad mi'le fa'ilte - One hundred thousand welcomes" - Delcan is right, it is a welcome, not really a proverb, but it certainly points out the wonderful hospitality of the island.

I wish I could get to Moscow some time, I still remember doing a report on the development of the city and its fortifications back in an archaeology class at college. People were impressed that I could tell them what kremlin meant.

Let me know if you ever can get to Orlando, FL and Disney World. I'll be happy to show you around.

pax


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 03:15 PM

You folks are great. Thanks one and all and esp. thanks to the joe clone who posted. Welcome to the Mudcat, Elena. My brother used to be fluent in Russian, when he was in the Army. The only thing I can remember that he taught me and I am sure I do not spell it correctly is dos va donya. Please escuse my poor spelling of it, that's the way it sounds to me.:-)

kat


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Jimmy C
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 05:49 PM

On the first day of Spring, many Celts prepared for sowing and other food production activities, although some did this on the 2nd, such as in parishes dedicated to St. Bride where no work was done on that day, only invocations to her. Omens giving clues about the forthcoming spring were looked for in the weather, tides, movement and behavious of wildlife. In Ireland the turning of wheels was avoided on this day, so spiners, seamstresses, millers, carters and similar tradespeople would stop work. Even cycling was frowned opon. There would be no work done in parishes dedicated to this saint, such as in Dabhach Bride, in Liscannor, Co.Clare and in St Brigd's Stream, Faughart, Co. Louth.

In Scotland on Barra and other islands of the Outer Hebrides people would make Bride's Beds out of straw or rushes and implored Bride to come to the house and sleep there a night, to bring luck and fertility to the household. Local fishermen would cast lots for fishing banks on that day. ( from Chronicle of Celtic Folk Customs by Brian Day )

The matter of the handkerchiefs probably grew from the non turning of wheels and the custom of tying pieces of cloth to the tree near the well of St. Brigit, Faughart, Co. Louth. Having lived in Ireland for 25 years I never heard of this custom until this thread.

Slan , Spasiba ? and good luck to you Elena


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST,Helen, at work
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 09:10 PM

Welcome, Elena,

I'm glad you came back after our rather rough welcome.

As to your question to Stonedagain: 'which other mistranslations were you hinting at? And what does the phrase "I dink you pictor have yes? " mean (my English is not as good)?'

I think my best advice would be to ignore that. It appears to be a crude attempt to upset or embarrass you by writing something which looks like English but does not make any sense. Your English is excellent (and that is from an ex-English teacher!)

Helen


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz q
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 10:57 PM

Elena,

'I think you picture have' is a way of saying 'I think you understand'. Pay no attention.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Elena
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 05:59 AM

Dear everyone,

So… Now I'm an official member! Though I'm afraid the chat room is not for me (I can't afford to spend much time in the Internet and usually I deal only with mail). Still I'm glad that I have joined your forum, for you are wonderful people.

And I'm very happy that you have appreciated my English (at last!!!)

P.S. For Pax: Well.. I'm not sure whether I ever can get to Orlando, etc., but thank you so much for the invitation. Maybe I'll see you in Moscow before that.. It would be simply great.

Do Svidanya! (you were almost right, Kat!) and may we someday meet somewhere...


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz q
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 07:24 AM

WELCOME TO THE MUDCAT!!! BTW (which means "by the way"), I'd guess that your English is better than 99.99% of Mudcatters' Russian!


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: kai
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 07:54 AM

Hello, Elena!

It's great to see you here at Mudcat. I'm using it for over two years and think it's pretty useful and friendly for all, even for dumb Russians :).

Hope to see you on Paddy's Day!

MacQuilly


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: belfast
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 08:00 AM

Let's face it, Elena's English is better than that of many native English speakers. I hope she gets to visit Ireland.

And, just for clarity, as regards Green and Orange. There are plenty who would regard themselves as Nationalist or Republican ("Green") who would have no time for the Catholic Church. There are many Protestants who loathe and despise the Orange Order and all it stands for.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 08:21 AM

Hi Elena and welcome. Please let us know if you win the competition!

BJ


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: belfast
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 09:43 AM

I forgot to say "Welcome". Failte Romhat!


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 10:25 AM

Still a bit suspicious about this [Russian?] guest's command of the English language, it's better then many native English speakers that I know.
Giok


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 10:57 AM

Elena,

I don't think anyone answered the "why" part of question 6.

Ireland is known as the Emerald Isle because the landscape stays very green pretty much all the year round because the climate is quite temperate (even) with mild temperatures and rainfall spread quite evenly throughout the year. Of the two names which you quote, that is probably the one most often used nowadays, especially in tourist promotions , so that's probably the better answer to give in your quiz.

The name 'Island of Saints and Scholars' is an older name which refers to the fact that, after the collapse of the Roman Empire in the Dark Ages, many Irish monks (priests) brought Christianity back to Northern Europe, founding monasteries, schools, etc. as they travelled.

Good luck with the competition, and let us know how you get on!

Roger


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: kai
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 10:59 AM

Giok,

You may be sure she is Russian. At least, as I last time met her, she still was Russian. :)


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST,red-faced idiot
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 01:20 PM

I'm the one responsible for kat's "brain drain" line, and it sure wasn't her who's brain was draining, the dribble all came from me.

I DID ask the clones to remove my post. Sorry, fans of excitement and expletive deleteds, you didn't really miss anything, I was simply RUDE to katlaughing, who I love dearly, and implied that she hadn't caught what I saw as another one of those Irish flame threads that have plagued the cat and really cause bad feelings.

Due to a number of things that I won't get into, I was feeling crotchety, cranky, curmudgeon-like and in general, not my normal laid back self. I won't get into THAT again. So I'm sorry for disrupting this thread. When the alarm bells went off, I should have just ignored it and looked at something else.

I figured after 50 plus posts I could come back in and explain to the people who asked, what happened, without disrupting continuity. And once again kat, I'm really sorry.

Maybe in a few weeks I'll even come back and take a few tomatoes in the kisser without the cloak of anonymity, but at the moment I'm feeling a little too sheepish, so I'll remain

Red-faced idiot


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: ard mhacha
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 01:55 PM

Jimmy C, I have been around the oul Isle all of 65 years and I have never heard of the custom of "idle wheels" on St Brigid`s Day.
In Texas they might have cow-pat skimming competitions and up in New England this pratice is unheard off, and in Cornwall they may participate in Pastie eating competitions and in and around London they would find this custom very quaint, likewise in County Kerry they might stand a poor goat on a pedestal for three or four days while the locals have all the fun of the Fair, elsewhere in Ireland the goat would be a provider of good healthy milk.
Now somewhere else in the Emerald Isle they may have that "idle wheels" ritual, but in all of my time in and around County Armagh the wheels have always kept turning on St Brigid`s Day.
And God Bless all the lovely lasses of Moscow.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 01:58 PM

Don't stay away that long, RFI. We've ALL done silly things at one time or other - it's seems to be a mandatory initiation to the Internet. And not everyone has the guts to admit it and apologise.

Welcome Elena, so glad you joined us! Be sure to let us know if you win the competition, and what parts of Ireland you'll be visiting. Do you sing or play any music?

All the best, Bonnie


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST,,Elf (Elena)
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 02:43 PM

Dear everyone,

I confess I am laughing my posterior off, haw haw haw.

What a nice gullable bunch you all are!

Realy in Nigeria, also Elena is a man!

Haw haw haw.


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Elena
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 05:39 PM

To someone who has dared to steal my nickname:
Hey, it ain't funny! All rights reserved and do not discredit lovely Russian lasses..

To other Mudcatters:

Thanks for all the kind words about my English (well.. I was obviously fishing for compliments), but your generosity inspires! :) I wish I could learn Gaelic as well..

To Bonnie: I sing and play. Mostly Celtic songs, for (as everyone might have already noticed) I'm very fond of Celtic culture.

To Giok: Kogo ya vijou! Quite unexpected, I would say, but pleasant.. BTW, I liked the way you have proved my Russianness. :) I'll be at "Tochka" on Saturday.

If I win this competition, the Mudcatters will be the first to know! :)

P.S. Thanks to everyone who have added useful details. I am getting more and more grateful.. :)


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz q
From: mooman
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 05:45 PM

Welcome to the Cat Elena!

êëàññíàß äåâ÷îíêà!

moo


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz q
From: mooman
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 05:49 PM

,,,and don't worry too much about

òîðìîç

anonymous flamers!

moo


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: Elena
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 07:04 PM

Moo, your Russian is getting better than my English! :)

A note to my previous message: strangely enough, I was going to write "to Kai", but wrote "to Giok" and remembered it only now… Something to do with subconsciousness, I believe…


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 12 - 08:48 AM

How do you say " Merry Christmas " in russian


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Subject: RE: PLEASE HELP! (from a Moscow lass) Irish quiz query
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 12 - 11:14 AM

С Рождеством Христовым (S Roždestvom Khristovym)


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