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BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band

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InOBU 14 Mar 03 - 01:04 PM
InOBU 14 Mar 03 - 01:05 PM
Clinton Hammond 14 Mar 03 - 01:05 PM
Don Firth 14 Mar 03 - 02:04 PM
JedMarum 14 Mar 03 - 02:07 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 14 Mar 03 - 02:29 PM
GUEST 14 Mar 03 - 02:40 PM
GUEST,sorefingers 14 Mar 03 - 02:51 PM
Bullfrog Jones 14 Mar 03 - 03:07 PM
Kim C 14 Mar 03 - 03:12 PM
John McLaughlin 14 Mar 03 - 03:13 PM
InOBU 14 Mar 03 - 03:18 PM
Kim C 14 Mar 03 - 03:53 PM
Greg F. 14 Mar 03 - 04:59 PM
wilco 14 Mar 03 - 05:00 PM
Frankham 14 Mar 03 - 05:10 PM
JedMarum 14 Mar 03 - 05:18 PM
TheBigPinkLad 14 Mar 03 - 05:25 PM
Willie-O 14 Mar 03 - 05:27 PM
Kim C 14 Mar 03 - 05:37 PM
Clinton Hammond 14 Mar 03 - 05:47 PM
fsharpdim7 14 Mar 03 - 05:51 PM
InOBU 14 Mar 03 - 07:04 PM
GUEST,sorefingers 14 Mar 03 - 07:30 PM
The Pooka 14 Mar 03 - 08:54 PM
InOBU 14 Mar 03 - 09:07 PM
Willie-O 14 Mar 03 - 09:17 PM
The Pooka 14 Mar 03 - 10:00 PM
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GUEST,sorefingers 15 Mar 03 - 11:36 AM
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JohnnyBeezer 15 Mar 03 - 11:54 AM
JedMarum 15 Mar 03 - 01:21 PM
Mary in Kentucky 15 Mar 03 - 02:55 PM
michaelr 15 Mar 03 - 03:01 PM
dick greenhaus 15 Mar 03 - 04:10 PM
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Subject: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 01:04 PM

dixie_chicks

Dixie Chicks Remark Irks Country Fans

14 minutes ago
Associated Press

NASHVILLE, Tennessee - The Dixie Chicks are drawing harsh words from country

music fans for remarks singer Natalie Maines made about President George W.
Bush during a recent performance in London.
Maines told the audience earlier this week, "Just so you know, we're ashamed
the president of the United States is from Texas."
Angry phone calls flooded Nashville radio station WKDF-FM on Thursday, some

calling for a boycott of the Texas trio's music.
The group released a statement Thursday saying they have been overseas for

several weeks and "the anti-American sentiment that has unfolded here is
astounding. While we support our troops, there is nothing more frightening
than the notion of going to war with Iraq and the prospect of all the
innocent lives that will be lost."

In a separate statement Thursday, Maines said, "I feel the president is
ignoring the opinion of many in the U.S. and alienating the rest of the
world. My comments were made in frustration, and one of the privileges of
being an American is you are free to voice your own point of view."

The Dixie Chicks will kick off a U.S. tour in support of their multi-platinum
album "Home" on May 1 in Greenville, South Carolina. The group's hits include
"Wide Open Spaces," "Ready to Run" and "Landslide."


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 01:05 PM

I am putting on my new white scraf to buy my first Dixie Chicks CD.
Larry


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 01:05 PM

Since when is it not o.k. to have a personal opinion??


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 02:04 PM

At first, I thought the Dixie Chicks were just another bare belly-buttoned female pop group. Then I found out they can play and sing. Now I find out they have brains and a social conscience as well. I'm liking them better all the time!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: JedMarum
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 02:07 PM

I will have no problem expressing my opinion of their hateful message to my audiences. I will have no problem expressing my opinion by not purchasing the records or tickets to their shows. I will have no problem expressing my opinion on any of these brave, pampered souls who spit in the face of their own heritage.

Fuck 'em!


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 02:29 PM

C'mon, Jed. Stop mincing words and tell us how you really feel.

Bruce


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 02:40 PM

yeah how dare they have opinions of their own....


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 02:51 PM

When it's peach pickin time in the Azores
It'll be chicken neck wringin time in Texas...

Yeoddlieee oh hhh noooo


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 03:07 PM

They probably didn't realize they were talking to your audience, Jed. I expect they thought all those people had come to see them!

BJ


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Kim C
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 03:12 PM

Well, here's what I have to say about that.

Sure, it's all right to have an opinion, and to express it. But I also think there's a good way and a not good way to do it. My opinion is, the way Natalie Maines did it showed a lack of class. Do I hold it against her? Nope. I know what my own toes taste like so I won't chastise her for putting her foot in her mouth.

(I can actually do this, by the way. Not that I have actually ever physically put my foot in my mouth, mind you, but I can reach my toes to my chin. Yoga must be paying off.)

I think she could have imparted a peace message in another country without making disparaging remarks about the President. As it is, she didn't really impart a peace message at all, she only disparaged the President. It might have been more appropriate to say something like, "we don't support a war with Iraq."

Anyway, I am reminded of this quote from Mark Twain: "It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them."

Bet they don't get invited to the White House anytime soon.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: John McLaughlin
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 03:13 PM

I uuseta like their muisc when they first came out, then sorta lost interest when they went a bit Nashville-blonde and all that, but they do grow on ya, don't they? Really nice fiddling. Also seem to be saying what they wanna say. You could ignore it if you don't like it. Saying "fuck em" does seem a bit of a bellow, huh? Unlikely it'll happen, big guy. I spoze a boy can dream. But roareing it like that prolly makes it less likely, huh? - John


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 03:18 PM

Well Jed:
Frankly any citizen of a free country who endorces the presidency of someone who openly endorces the removal of citizenship for the purpose of deny them their constitutional rights, well, frankly I would not use the term you used, but feel free to fill in your own explitive. Now I also say this in friendship as I don't think you have thought out the implication of your comments. They have spoken out against a war that the majority of the people on the planit oppose and is opposed by about half of their own national population. Beyond that they are speaking out against a president who has remove rights from us that we had under King George III.
So, if you feel they don't have a right to speak their minds, well, sit and think about it awhile. If this nation is about the right to be an individual as long as you are an individual who agrees with some narrow point of view, well, you lost me, explain it to me.
Cheers
Larry


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Kim C
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 03:53 PM

Larry, I don't think they spoke out against the war. They spoke out against the President. In my mind those are two different things. Your mileage may vary.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 04:59 PM

Boy, and here I though The Prez was the main proponent & cheerleader for this insane war! I musta missed something. Kinda tough to criticize one without the other, innit?

Since when is it not o.k. to have a personal opinion??
Since Ashcroft became Atty. Genl. and his Staasi took over.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: wilco
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 05:00 PM

It must be nice to get to the point, finacially, where you can alienate at least half of your fan base. I suspect that it's probably closer to 90% of their fan base. I bet the other members of the trio and their entourage, reord label, etc., all told her to "Shut up, you fool!! You just blew our career!!"


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Frankham
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 05:10 PM

I think that as Americans they are within their rights to criticize this (p)resident. they did not disparage America but W's actions. Somehow, there are those that feel that W was elected by a landslide and I don't share their views. They commented on the anti-American sentiment that is not only in England but many parts of the world today. They did it with a kind of clarity without calling anyone names. If they are ashamed of the p(resident), I believe they have the right as Americans to say so. W has to know that the war he intends to conduct does not have support of all Americans.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: JedMarum
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 05:18 PM

When I disagree with my wife on an issue, when she and I have strong differnces of opinion, I do not go to my nighbor's house and tell them that I am ashamed of her. I do not make ugly, hateful commenst about her or call her names in front of other people (or in front of her, for that matter). That would be classless, harmful foolish and damaging to myself and my own case.

The Dixie Chicks didn't come out and speak against the war. They came out to a non-US audience and spoke a personal and hateful comment about their president. THAT displays their stupidity - not expressing their American minority opinion to a European audience.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 05:25 PM

Jed -- I'm not American, but I've seen them on TV. And one of the things they are really, really, really proud of is their right to free speech. ;o)


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Willie-O
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 05:27 PM

Hey, they (she) can say anything they want to their audience no matter where they are. What difference does it make what country they're in? Obviously these kind of remarks are going to get picked up by the media and get the predictable outrage from people who disagree with them. If they lose some fans, they are sure as hell gaining some too. I bet they're tired of the Nashville star business anyhow.

Maybe they'll tour with Steve Earle. The Leftist Country Outcasts Tour. I'd go see em in a flash.

Willie-O


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Kim C
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 05:37 PM

They might be tired of the Nashville star business, but that's the business that got them where they are. It's sort of funny to me, they started out as a pretty hot cowgirl-bluegrass band years ago, and didn't get any major interest till they started showing skin. And it was partly showing skin that got them rich.

Yes, I know they're talented. I know that as well as anybody. I have the now out of print ORIGINAL Dixie Chicks albums from their Past Life. But they chose the mainstream themselves.

I think it's fine for people to express opinions. I just think they should exercise some manners and good sense when they do it. Maybe they're too young to have been taught that in Texas.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 05:47 PM

"They came out to a non-US audience and spoke a personal and hateful comment about their president"

Personal?? hateful? They said they wre ashamed of him... What's wrong with that?? I understood that was popular opinion....

"one of the privileges of being an American is you are free to voice your own point of view"

Kinda sums it all up, no?


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: fsharpdim7
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 05:51 PM

Natalie is quoted as saying: "Just so you know, we're ashamed
the president of the United States is from Texas."
I am all for those who take a reasonable, or even unreasonable, position for or against the coming war, but I am not for those who do not give respect to those on the other side of the issue.
I believe, given the events of 9/11, that the President's advisors have the best interest of the country at heart and the President is doing the best he can with that advice. I would not want to be President and know I did not do all I could to prevent the next terrorist attack.
Can't those on both sides agree to respect each other's view, and not attack each other? I would hate to see a split in the country as after Viet Nam. I am also sure that Saddam and the others of his ilk would love to see such a split.
Chris


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 07:04 PM

Jeb: I don't ever have the occation to need to say bad things about my wife as she is perfect and sometimes reads Mudcat posts. However, the Dixie Chicks are not married to Bush. I think it would be interesting if he where! They would have not canceled on the poets! But, there we are, I detect a sort of odd notion on your part that we are married to George Bush. I am a little well uncomfortable with that image. I am neither married to him nor do I feel my right to call him an idiot ends at the shores. In fact, my right to call him an idiot comes from two sources... my graduate degree and my rights as an American citizen. PS... you don't have to be American to call Bush an idiot... you just have to be awake.
Wake up Jed... the rights he is stealing are YOUR rights as well.
Stop him before he stops you.
Larry


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 07:30 PM

The thing is, sometimes a person should ignore their right of free speech when folks feelings are going to be hurt.

This is a great example.

Another one today on NPR, a doofus wrote a book about the Bushes and he says that Texas is an Anglo ScotsIrish Protestant State.

It ain't. And our feelings are really hurt.

So I think this man must have fell on a rock. Down here - South Texas, there are nearly no anglos - in fact when two gringos meet they jump up and down naked in the middle of the street, and all the rock churches are Davidian, the Universities are ran by ladies in long black robes, and no these are not OBL's wives.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: The Pooka
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 08:54 PM

I'm very ambivalent & conflicted about the coming War (leaning, I do hereby confess, slightly in favor of it, as the lesser of very evil options) -- I see good arguments on both sides, which is a congenital defect of mine -- I'm influenced by the recent pro-war column by Elie Wiesel, a man of peace and moral vision I believe -- all of which I mention merely as a Preface to the following:

I don't see anything seriously wrong with what Natalie said; nor with the evident hyperbole with which she chose to say it (this was in London; the Brits are accustomed to robust rhetoric, I believe); nor with the Dixie Chicks taking the position that they have taken. And indeed, given their genre & (I presume - ?) the demographics of their U.S. audience, perhaps it does take some real Ovaries to come out against good ole Dubya.

There. / That Said, as They Say, may I add this technical point. I've been here only intermittently in recent times so I've probably missed other examples, BUT: it seems to me that this here Thread is a very excellent case of Crossover between the "Music", and the "BS" -- specifically the "political" -- categories. A while ago, in the course of endorsing this Great Divide, I predicted that this would happen -- it's inevitable -- and, here it is. / Joe Offer: waddy ya think? Didja have any doubt where to place this one? IS it, as it has evolved, Music?? / "Hard cases make bad law." -- some Judge, I dunno.
- Pook


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 09:07 PM

Just proves folk music is political... also, frankly the issue is not feelings being hurt, it is the hurt of 2500 pound bombs being droped on human beings. These are times that try the soul and it is in the spirit of the American Revolution that these brave young women speak their minds to power, when power ignores the majoirty of the people of the world, the majority of the spiritual leaders of their nation, likely the majority of the people of their nation, when their leadership undertakes to change the meaning of the US by a preemptive strike at a nation with which we are not at war. Oh, that Hirohito's people were as brave as the Dixie Chicks.
Larry


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Willie-O
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 09:17 PM

Well I don't know about the manners part, Kim, but I agree about the skin thing, wish it didn't have to happen that way. Still, what difference does it make to the subject at hand? They changed their costuming, and sold a lot of CD's. They're still entitled to speak their minds and not turn off their consciences just because not everyone who likes, or liked, their music agrees with them. With so much pro-war music in the country camp (Toby Keith being the current flagwaver), I'd a thought some diversity would be welcome. (If I was completely naive)

You're not obliged to dress like a Quaker to express an antiwar viewpoint. (In fact, some protests have shown you're not obliged to dress at all)

Sorefingers, Texas is an Anglo ScotsIrish Protestant State. Emphasis on State.

Willie-O


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: The Pooka
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 10:00 PM

Larry - "Just proves folk music is political..."

Of course it does & of course it is / which I suppose is an argument against Joe Offer's Low Wall of Separation / but: I still think it (the Wall) is a good thing.

"...also, frankly the issue is not feelings being hurt, it is the hurt of 2500 pound bombs being droped on human beings." Yeah; try *21,000*-pound -- the one just tested in Florida. (Hm, Florida. I could go on with that one; but I doan' wannabe Tasteless, like the Dixie Chicks. :)

"...These are times that try the soul..." Nicely de-gendered, there. "...when their leadership undertakes to change the meaning of the US by a preemptive strike at a nation with which we are not at war." Yeah; I *HATE* that. When I Lean in Favor, that thought, above all, reproaches me. / But - times have changed; and not for the better, God knows. The Just War doctrines do pre-date the WMD era.

Also: legalistically, Saddam in fact struck first, when he invaded Kuwait; and he has never carried out all his agreed-to obligations under the international documents which left his fascist Ba'ath regime in power, on condition of his compliance, after that aggression had been repulsed.

"Oh, that Hirohito's people were as brave as the Dixie Chicks." Well -- yeah. You mean the Japanese Opposition. Actually, those who fought & died FOR the Emperor were, on the whole, pretty brave, weren't they? Not Good; but Brave. / But as for the Opposition -- well, while I think the Dixie Chicks are gutsy, at least economically, it IS still a wee bit safer to speak out against government policy here & now, than it was there & then. (Setting aside, of course, the thousands of US antiwar demonstrators who have recently been not only expelled from shopping malls by rent-a-cops for their T-shirt slogans, but also shot, burned & hanged by Ashcroft personally. Y'know.)


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 10:09 PM

US Census 2000
Facts for Willie the daftie Oh...

32 % Hispanic 11 % AA, and 11% no allegiance. Do the math.

Greatest population growth in this state is ?

Religions in Tejas, Davidian, Folkies, Salza, Mariachi, and Blugrass but nobody down here can figure out what to do with the 5th string...
We tried but prefer drinking beer and accordion musac...Polkas


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,Texas
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 10:13 PM

The Texas Constitution

                            Article 1 - BILL OF RIGHTS

                              Section 6 - FREEDOM OF WORSHIP

    All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own
    consciences. No man shall be compelled to attend, erect or support any place of worship, or to maintain any
    ministry against his consent. No human authority ought, in any case whatever, to control or interfere with the rights
    of conscience in matters of religion, and no preference shall ever be given by law to any religious society or mode
    of worship. But it shall be the duty of the Legislature to pass such laws as may be necessary to protect equally
    every religious denomination in the peaceable enjoyment of its own mode of public worship.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 10:32 PM

Hi Pooka... I actualy don't mind the wall, the fact that this involves speach closely tied to performers during a performance is the point about the politics of folk music.
As to the thousands arested in shoping malls, no, they are thousands of aliens held in INS detention without proper access to their lawyers, ask any Immagration lawyer in your part of the country, they are being sent back to nations which - in many cases they fled with real fears for their lives.
Now as to Sadam invading Kwait... I don't know about you, but I am not a Kawaite, in fact, if I was and you were, as not a member of the ruling elete there, we'd likely be slaves.
Fact is, the new American concevatives are not concervatives at all, but reactionaries who are playing fast and easy with the elimental rights that define us as a people. You claim that these are new times. Well we have seen the end of one of the most bloody centuries in history. If American rights could survive the war against hitler, I expect they can servive any struggle against sadam husain, if you don't think American rights are worth protecting, I am reminded of American concervatives telling me love it or leave it, when I walked for the lives of 46,000 Americans killed in a failed attempt to change the government of Viet Nam.
Cheers
Larry


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Áine
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 09:33 AM

I don't usually participate in 'political' threads; but, since InOBU started this one, and I am a native Texan, I do have a couple of things to add here.

What Natalie said was a very bad PR move for her group. Even though I'm not a big 'Chicks' fan, I've always been interested in their career, and have been happy to see them reach such a level of success. I doubt seriously that her statement on stage will have any lasting effect on the group's career -- tempest in a teacup and all that.

Besides, the premise of her statement was wrong. President Bush is not a Texan. He wasn't born here, his family is not from Texas, he didn't go to school here (for the most part), and he can drop that 'faux-bubba' accent whenever it pleases him.

Basically, he's a Connecticut yankee in the stockyards. As far as I'm concerned, he's an insult to Texans in general -- even the ones that voted for him.

That's not to say that Texas isn't proud of some of its 'adoptees'. The caveat being, however, is that when they promote themselves in public, they always say something like, 'Even though I'm originally from (fill in the blank), I'm proud to call Texas my home now.' And they never claim to be a 'Texan' nor do they claim to speak for Texas or Texans.

Whew, I feel better now, having got that off my chest.

Parsimonious debate can now resume. Enjoy yourselves ;-)

All the best, Áine


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 10:47 AM

Hi.

Before this becomes just another idealogical debate, like the other hundred on the cat....can I ask a few questions of the folks who might have been exploring this story fully.

What HAVE the other two women in the band (and the bookers, agents managers etc) been saying about this, over the last few days? It was implied back a few posts, that they completely disagreed with her. Might this be true... or just a reaction to the controversy that will dog them the rest of their careers?

Any newspaper stories (from Texas or anywhere else in the States) that were interesting?

This isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened....remember Skeeter Davis on the Opry? She spoke out (VERY MILDLY) against the Vietnam war, and was kicked off the Opry. This current situation is SO different though. The "Chicks" are not just popular...they're right up there with Brittney, (and still rising). There aren't Millions at stake here.....there are BILLIONS.

So it isn't really the Country Music/Galgrass community that's gonna have a huge effect on this. My guess is (if they stay together) they might lose 10-20 percent of that audience, but they've already picked up millions of new fans simply BECAUSE they dissed the American President.

If I were managing this group.....I'd BEG Natalie to take a settlement (what would it be... about 50 Million bucks?) replace her and make out like nuthin happened. The group's future is now guaranteed anyway...so who cares about Bluegrass fans anyway? Natalie can go solo (doubt if she'll get invited to the Opry or any of Dubya's BarBques, but she should be able to survive on the money she's already got, for another seven hundred years or so.

Message to Jed. Now listen up here! You're not 25 anymore....yer gettin too excited about this!!

Cheers

Rick


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: John Hardly
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 10:52 AM

so now the political threads are NOT being culled from the music?


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 11:17 AM

The presence of a political element in a discussion doesn't negate the music content.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: X
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 11:25 AM

Statement from Natalie Maines of the Dixie Chicks
March 14, 2003

"As a concerned American citizen, I apologize to President Bush because my remark was disrespectful. I feel that whoever holds that office should be treated with the utmost respect. We are currently in Europe and witnessing a huge anti-American sentiment as a result of the perceived rush to war. While war may remain a viable option, as a mother, I just want to see every possible alternative exhausted before children and American soldiers' lives are lost. I love my country. I am a proud American."

Spin spin spin!


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 11:36 AM

Lots a folks agree with Jed, and they don't have to be born anywhere to see why.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 11:42 AM

Anyway as a firm follower of the Religion of Tecate and Tacos I think we should have a referendum to chose between G W and John Wayne as the State hero. Have a nice saturday and hug a tipple if you can.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: JohnnyBeezer
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 11:54 AM

As an Englishman I must say that although I hold no brief for this US President, I was embarrassed for you Americans to learn what had been said so recklessly, particularly in a foreign country...mine.
We all have to hang together, we have a long history of America as our good and trusted friends and I for one can sympathise deeply with 9/11 but I wouldn't pretend to understand what it may have done to the President's and the American population psyche!!
I think that you must believe that he(George W Bush) is acting in the interests of the American and Global community, otherwise what you are left with is just rampant cynicism.

Be safe
Johnny N


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: JedMarum
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 01:21 PM

They're being fried in the Texas music world - radio stations being buried with calls expressing outrage, and "don't play their music ever again" sort of stuff. Several stations have put up a "send us your thoughts and we'll forward 'em to the Chicks" webpages. They say the messages are 80 negative to 20 other - but that's Texas. It's true, the Chicks will likely be mainly spurned by the bluegrass world - but that's a small component. The negative reaction of part of the world will open new doors and make new fans for the Chicks, especially outside the US. The net result will almost certainly be positive.

If the apology printed above is an accurate comment, she'll have reduced the anger felt by many.

Many US folks love the Chicks and their music - this could blow over. Everybody feels a lot of tension right now, waiting for the other shoe to drop (Read My Lips; NO MORE DELAYS). Natalie is almost certainly no exception. I konw the people she's spending a lot of time with during this tour feel very6 differntly then Americans, and if she is feeling aligned with their point-of-view she may have underestimated the impact of comments. Had she said she vehemently opposed Bush's policies, or the US/UN handling of the Iraq weapons - she'd have done so much better, and probably raised very little anger.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 02:55 PM

Yeah John, you're right on. They remind me of the little kids/brats that have to ride their bigwheels right in front of the grownups trying to sit in a circle in lawnchairs and have an adult conversation. Seems it's just no fun to spout their opinions and demonstrate oneupmanship without an audience.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: michaelr
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 03:01 PM

Jeez, Jed -- I respect you as a songwriter, but I'm surprised by your politics. How did you ever get an avowed leftie like Brian McNeill to play on your record?

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 04:10 PM

Joe Offer: The Music Content in this is about that of discussing Michael Jackson's baby dangling. Please move it to the BS section.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: toadfrog
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 05:47 PM

Dick Greenhaus: Right on! It is damned inconsiderate to smuggle BS into the music section by refusing to label it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: michaelr
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 09:53 PM

I agree.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: jimmyt
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 10:46 PM

I certainly appreciate the sentaments of Johnny N, an Englishman on this subject. I was taught to respect the office of president and have always treated each president back to Dwight Eisenhower with a type of respect that the person who holds the office deserves. Although I have had reservations sometimes about some of the decisions that our president (past as well as present) has made, I do not believe in showing the kind of disrespect that this lady showed toward her president.

Having said that, it is her right to do so. It is also within the rights of each and every person to decide as to whether they feel like supporting her career based on their belief system. We will just have to wait and see if this is a decision that she regrets.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 12:06 AM

The Dixie Chicks not being universally "fried" in Texas. KERA (Dallas) tonight made a point of playing cuts from their latest CD after remarking about the flap. I've never bought one of their CDs before, but I will now. (KERA probably doesn't represent a huge percentage of the Texas population, but at least it reaches the part that thinks).

I'm horribly embarrassed by this Resident of the US. Texans, above everyone else, knew better than to support him with his dirty tricks right-hand man Karl Rove and their get-richer-quicker buddies. Anyone who has the guts to speak up against Bush and Ashcroft and their cadre earns a lot of points in my book. Gore won the popular vote, and his crew should have had the sense to recount all of Florida, not cherry-pick a few counties. Democrats left the race open to the Reagan Supremes to appoint their favorite son. Too bad the Dixie Chicks will end up with the same kind of black eye that Sinead O'Connor got when she made a political comment years ago. I can't even remember what it was now--except it was blown out of proportion.

Somewhere in Texas, a village is missing it's idiot.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 12:31 AM

Holy tempest in a teapot Batman...


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 01:25 AM

The thought that Dubya's acting in the interest of the U.S.
is horribly naive. He's acting in the interest of his
own political skin. How else to account for the blatant
_lies_ being told us about Iraq (the drones, the IAEA
report, the "mobile bioweapons labs", the plagiarised
British "intelligence dossier", the "proof" of an al Qaeda/Iraq
tie, the building of new missiles as others are destroyed ...
most of these things disputed by the UN inspectors
themselves, who have referred to the "intelligence"
received from the U.S. and the U.K. as "garbage, garbage,
and more garbage")? The attempt to conflate Iraq with
the Sept. 11th atack is the most insidious; there is
no link, yet Dubya manages to put Sept. 11th in his
speech last week 8 times, mostly in the same breath
as Iraq. To say he's acting in the interest of the
nation -- when in fact many have argued with good cause
that attacking Iraq will _not_ make the region more
stable (or even democratic, as if Dubya would like to
see what a democratic Iraq _would_ look like), nor will
it help alleviate the risk of terrorism, but in fact
may very well stoke the coals of anti-American feeling --
is to avoid any level of critical thinking. To
acquiesce in _his_ judgement without debate, given
his prevarications, his constantly changing rationales,
and his obvious personal interest in pushing a war,
is to surrender one of the things that _makes_ the
U.S. what it is, a free republic "of the people,
by the people, and _for_ the people".

. . .

Dubya claims that war on Iraq is his last resort. Does
_anyone_ here actually believe this, given his behaviour?

. . .

Natalie Maines is right to be ashamed of the person
who's living in the White House.

There can be some difference of opinion as to whether
the _office_ of the President deserves some respect,
but as somebody pointed out, it's hard (and rather
pointless) to criticise Dubya outside the context
of him being the pResident. And the RWers who are
now saying we should stand behind the pResident (or
at least the _office_ of the President) were probably
those that set a precedent not too long ago, such
as Trent Lott's "He's not _my_ President" (referring
to Clinton), and the calumny heaped on Clinton by
the Republicans just a few short years ago. I'd note
that the Republican leaders who had castigated others
for criticising Dubya while Dubya was abroad had in
fact done precisely that to Clinton just short years
previously. Before anyone starts demanding respect,
I want a sworn statement from them that _they_ acted
"appropriately" during the term of our _last_ elected
President.

As for me, I tend towards the views of one of the
two Republicans to be included in the four statesmen
enshrined on Mt. Rushmore:

    "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
    or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
    not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
    to the American public." -- Teddy Roosevelt, May 7, 1918


Kim C.:
Do you think that Mark Twain was maybe pulling your leg?
Do you think that _he_ took this "advice" to heart???

Jed:
When Dubya invites them to a tete-a-tete at the White House
to discus the weather, the day's shopping and chores, and
whatever might be on their mind, I'll accept the analogy
with your wife. What Natalie Maines was talking about
wasn't their personal relationship, but rather things of
consequence to pretty much _everyone_ in the world.

Sorefingers:

    "The thing is, sometimes a person should ignore their right
    of free speech when folks feelings are going to be hurt.

    "This is a great example."

Whose "feelings" are going to get hurt here? Mr. Thin-Skinned
"Major League Asshole" Dubya's?   If his widdle feewings are
going to get hurt by Natalie Maines. he's in the wrong
business. If he can't take criticism, then I don't want his
finger on the nuk-u-ler button.


Cheers,

                            -- Arne Langsetmo


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: InOBU
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 06:08 AM

Dear Englishman
"I think that you must believe that he(George W Bush) is acting in the interests of the American and Global community, otherwise what you are left with is just rampant cynicism."
Rampantly cynicaly yours
Larry Otway
PS If you would like to share my cynicism... ask what happened to the Staulker report in your nation.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,Steve Latimer
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 06:32 AM

Stilly River Sage,

Sinead tore up a picture of the Pope on live television while making a comment to the effect of him being the real enemy or something. I think it was a week or two later that she was booed off the stage at the Dylan 30th Anniversary Concert. I don't think her carreer has been the same since.

This will take a lot of the wind out of the sails of the Chicks, I think Rick's idea of buying her out and replacing her is something that the record company is probably discussing at length right now.

I guess my take is that I don't go to concerts to hear about the political views of the performers whether I agree with them or not. If I want politics I'll watch CNN, not go to a concert.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 08:06 AM

I don't think GW can be acting in the interests of the global community. Especially not since a large chunk of said community either doesn't feel threatened by Saddam, doesn't care who's in power there and doesn't feel killing a whole bunch of folks is a really good way to get one guy and his regime, who will be hiding someplace very safe while the destruction occurs, out of power. Even the Iraqis who may support efforts to remove him from power will be anti-American if we bomb the crap out of them. The ones who live through it, anyway.

I don't think Natalie Maines was wrong to state her point of view. Everybody has a right to express their opinion - EVEN entertainers. I think she might have said it better, and I think she might have focused on the war and not Bush. He's got his plan on how to solve the 'problem', but there's a whole bunch of people that support him, and they're ALL responsible.

If you believe the polls, and I'm afraid I don't trust the way statistics might be being manipulated, there's a lot of people advocating war. There's a lot of people who, in my opinion, just don't really care. That's what I'm embarrassed about. They sit back and say "Heck, he's the president. He must know what he's doing. I'm a GOOD American, so if he says war, then I want war too." They forget the president exists to speak for the American people and not the other way around. It may be the only reason why they want war is that it's just too darned complicated to think about critically. The silent majority is back, folks, and they're BAD!

In any case, I think Maines just forgot how much attention is focused on entertainers, and put her foot in her mouth. NOT that she doesn't believe it or shouldn't have expressed her beliefs, but because she said it badly. It's happened before and will happen again, and hopefully, people will look at more than just one off-the-cuff remark when making their judgements about someone.


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 09:35 AM

Wow, Sinead and her tearing up the Pope's picture. I'd forgotten about that Steve. Similar in some ways but mostly quite different. First ya don't fuck with the BIG religions! Her point (certainly valid) was about the Pope's silence on many womens' issues (other than supporting conservative values)......well....that's "Feminist", she's Irish Catholic, and maybe she was gutsy, but (like Natalie) she might have made her point better by (say) sending a message to the United Nations or something. The fact that she cried at the booing, certainly indicated to me that she did NOT expect that kind of reaction! Heck, wasn't Kristofferson the only one who PUBLICLY supported her?

Natalie's comment was enthusiasticly received by the audience....but where's the surprise in that? No matter which side of the "Iraq War" question you're on, you can't deny that many millions of people have been out on the pavement.....agreeing with her a hundred percent. I really DO wish she'd simply expressed her opinion about the war, rather than taking a shot at Dubya. You can be more effective when you ain't rude.....although I know how tempting it must have been.

Can't wait to see what happens at the Oscars.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chics and their Media Whore/s
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 10:53 AM

Arne, I don't think you play or sing squat! I suspect you are on some payroll-which one?-, and worried about the bottom line, as well as being a certain kind of person who will say or do almost anything for more green stuff, hence your presence here, did the 'Manager' send you, are you the dude with the Limo?

This thread is not about G W Bush, it is about a big mouthed babe who dragged an entire state into her foreign public arena privilidged US citizen entertainer put down of G W, it is about the fact that lots of people in Texas not only disaggree with her, but take the opposite view, it is about Texas ain't cowardly, it is about hushing some little spoilt brat who is putting Allied lives in danger by her drunk drugged MISINFORMED outburst, finaly it is about a measured and appropriate response - not the sort that Saddam and Co would be dealing out=a firing squad= though at first that did occur to me- in short Mr Arne moneygrabber it is about knowing the difference between fact and fantasy.

To sell more CDs she blabbed and she stabbed Texas in the BACK now she got caught and has to be gagged. Her bleatings about how sorry she is, ain't gonna help her at all, this is War. Not only will Joepublic not buy her shit, I am willing to bet some enlisted babe will take a poke at her. So B4 this is ova, Earl's fate may be one she prays for.

My response is 'hey Chics remember Earl, yeah that one?, the cops have reopened the case, and you are No 1 suspects'


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Subject: RE: Review: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Peter T.
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 11:00 AM

The truth is that she will never be forgiven. yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 11:06 AM

"Putting allied lives in danger" - uh...ok. Your heated opinion up there probably blew away a few mice in Oregon. There may be a good number of enlisted folks (probably not in the Marines) who don't agree that war is a good idea, but the military do NOT normally encourage them to speak about it and the major news networks seem more concerned with human interest stories.

You want to take a more realistic look at who's potentially putting allied lives in danger?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 11:20 AM

I am not going to argue with you Jeri! Every word we say on here, on a stage etc, can and is used by people who believe we 'the Infidel' must be anhilated. Think of it this way, Hitler was a clumsy clown compared with these people; look at the arms they have and are preparing to use, VX Gas, Smallpox, and the rest.

Re services cowards -Folks who signed up for the services KNEW what they were doing when the took the oath. Thats all- You signed on the line and got the MONEY so now you have to fight, or be shot in the head by a crazy Mulla.

Mice in Oregon!!!, gee Jeri put that fiddle into drive and quit sqeakin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Peter T.
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 11:33 AM

And who gave them the bioweapons? And who supported them when they gassed the Kurds? They became sophisticated on your dime (that's one dime American). yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 11:45 AM

"it is about hushing some little spoilt brat who is putting Allied lives in danger by HIS drunk drugged MISINFORMED outburst..."

This is one of the better succinct characterizations of George W. Bush andhis agenda that I've seen in quite a while. Nice job.

PS: best dial down the paranoid hysteria a notch ot two- yer gonna hurt yerself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: fox4zero
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 12:21 PM

Arne, I'm with you 100%

WHAT ON EARTH IS THE RELATIONSHIP OF THIS WAR WITH 9-11?


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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 12:36 PM

sorefingers, so glad you aren't going to argue. I agree folks who signed with the military either need to do as told or face the consequences. But they MUST question the rightness of their actions - at least according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. People are individually responsible for what they do.

If your definition of coward is someone who speaks their mind despite the possibility of being shouted at and called names by someone espousing the views of Authority, then thanks for the compliment! Those 'cowards' are in pretty good company! Seems to me the US became the US because of cowards, slavery was ended by cowards, human rights have been recognised because of cowards, and wrongs are generally exposed by cowards. It's your 'brave' folks who get us into trouble.

Not that I'm arguing with you...


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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 12:39 PM

Hmmmmmm is Natalie about to become this "situation's" 'Hanoi Jane'?

I doubt it's gonna be Barbra Streisand cuz too many people have hated her for so long, there's no novelty in it.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Tweed
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 12:39 PM

Hmmmmmm.....Beatles more popular than Jesus......them guys hung in there after their firestorm, mebbe the Chicks have a good chance too. They got big balls to say what they think and that's fairly uncommon these days.

Yerz,
Tweed


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Peter T.
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 12:54 PM

No, they are doomed. You want cute blond women saying nice things about our boys, as they play "down home" music, smelling of magnolia and beer spilt in the back of the pickup; not some bad mouthing bitch dissing our great leader in his hour of greatest peril, and to foreigners eating French food. Sell your Dixie Chick stock. Natalie is toast.

yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 01:00 PM

and to foreigners eating French food

Peter T. Get with the program. We don't say the Fr*nch word any more. Now you have to say "freedom food".


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 01:12 PM

AND......Peter....that's FREEDOM TOAST if you don't mind.

So...a question. Does anyone actually know if this calling everything that was formally named "French", freedom, is being taken seriously by more than a handful? I mean, it hasn't swept the country has it?

Rick (off to get some Freedom's Mustard)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 01:15 PM

Agree with Peter T. Every thing we do or say is watched by the bad people who exterimated Kurdish civilians with nerve gas. If you think these folks are fuzzy friends, you are nutz.

To those who say that because the west sold them the technology we are to blame, I say ,they bought the stuff and then used it, and it would not matter where they got it - they would still have used it. Ask youself this 'who looked for nerve gas and why?'.

You can no more blame the US for what happened than you can Ford Motor
Company for the wreck on a highway. Its not who made the stuff that decides the issue but who used it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 01:21 PM

If your highly unstable Ford SUV flipped while changing lanes or your friggin' Pinto blew up then I think Ford might have had something to do with it............

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: DougR
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 01:31 PM

"Who is putting allied lives in danger," Jeri? How about Saddam?

I wasn't aware people bought or didn't buy CDs on the basis of their political beliefs. Neither did I know friends did not join in a recording session for the same reason. I'm learning a lot on this thread.

No one has argued that she did not have to right to say what she thinks. Surely she measured the effect of what fall-out might occur as a result of her saying it. Based on the quote supplied above, she evidently is having some second thoughts regarding the wisdom of sharing her thoughts with her audience. She knew she was in an environment that would applaud anything negative she said about President Bush, what she might not have considered was that she was going to have to face the folks back home. According to latest polls (apologies to Bobert)the majority of the American people favor our going into Iraq and displacing Saddam. She would have had to take into account that the majority of American citizens would not be sympathetic to her POV.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,dixie ducks
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 01:34 PM

just in time


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 01:35 PM

Yes Rick. It's being taken seriously by a lot of people. Funny think is, that one could seriously backfire. If they keep pairing the word "freedom" with "French", after a while the two will become synonymous. A fitting irony, I think.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 01:37 PM

*funny thing* (sheesh)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 02:06 PM

OK Peter. They're toast...history, kicking bucket, say goodnight Gracie, circling the drain and imminently non-existant. People will buy millions of their CDs just so they can run over them with their Chevy pick-ups.

Rick, I never heard the Freedom/French thing until you used it, and I didn't know what the hell you were talking about!


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Peter T.
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 02:15 PM

What are they proposing to call French kissing? yours, Peter T. (That the French haven't sued over the use of "French dressing" suggests that they have a great deal of diplomatic patience)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 02:19 PM

Everything that used to be "French" is now "freedom". They sell "freedom fries" here in Georgia now. They come with a tiny US flag stuck in them.

I feel really bad for people like French Stewart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 02:23 PM

So Rick and PT.....Is there still the joint in Toronto called "Hello Toast?" I always thought it was great that someone took Fran Liebowicz's line and actually used it!!

Sorry....that really has nothing much to do with the French bashing thing......But if you can bash an entire country, why not Bush?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Peter T.
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 02:32 PM

Is there any truth to the rumour that they are going to imprison G.W. on the Azores before sending him to Elba or St. Helena? yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 03:06 PM

I have respect for the Office of President of the United States. But—considering the fact that the man who now holds that office

has trashed the American economy, squandered a hard-won surplus and managed to plunge this country into a national debt which has never before been equaled, while increasing the unemployment rate to near-Depression levels;

at the same time, he is tearing up the social safety net;

repeatedly tries to placate the public by announcing the launching of good-sounding health and education programs, and then refuses to back them up with the necessary funding;

is giving our national forests and other natural resources to corporations for economic exploitation;

blatantly disregards the rest of the world's concerns over the state of the environment;

enjoins states and cities to be major participants in securing the nation against terrorists, then provides no funding by which to do this; and then erodes local governments and emergency services of their ability to conduct even their normal functions by activating National Guard units, taking away the personnel of police and fire departments and airport and seaport security guards and screeners;

and most of all, is positioning himself and his cohorts to stifle any opposition to his policies by repealing large sections of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights in the name of "national security" (the cry of all tyrants throughout history);

pontificating about long-standing and high-minded American ideals and worthy goals as if he were reading T-shirts and bumper-stickers, while trampling on those ideals and goals by his actions;

and is further alienating former friends and allies, and the vast majority of the peoples of the world by arrogantly leading the United States into an ill-disguised campaign of colonial conquest, economic if possible, military if necessary, of the rest of the world, beginning by launching a war in the Middle East which any student of history and geopolitics knows will lead the United States and any other country with the bad judgment to collaborate with it, into a decades-long morass that will make Vietnam look like a toddler's birthday party, will further decimate the American economy by adding the burden of a long and expensive war, will lead to the wanton slaughter of military personnel and innocent civilians alike—and will further create fear and hatred for the United States with the inevitable result, not of quelling terrorism, but creating new generations of terrorists.

George W. Bush, his cohorts, and his policies constitute a disaster of global proportions.

I have respect for the Office of President. But for the man who currently holds that office, I have only fear and disgust.

For God's sake, get that man out of there in 2004. If it's not too late by then. . . .

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: The Pooka
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 04:09 PM

Joe Offer - Aww! Ya caved! Put it back in Music!! // NONONO jes' kiddin' Mr Joe. {Wuttsa mattah fuh yoo; yer not Pleasin' all o' da Peoples all o' da Time, here. Hop to it wouldyez :}

Now, Larry. (Sorry timelag) - "...as to Sadam invading Kwait... I don't know about you, but I am not a Kawaite, in fact, if I was and you were, as not a member of the ruling elete there, we'd likely be slaves." Well, "slaves" is a bit hyperbolic; but Yeah, & I'm no fan of His Heinie the Emir, believe me. However: one need not be a Kuwaiti to acknowledge that when Saddam attacked, seeking to annex, that sovereign (albeit monarchical) nation, a then-unanimous UN Security Council legally authorized coalition forces, led by us, to repel the invaders under international law. And, that the conclusion of those hostilities entailed Hussein's binding commitment to meet certain conditions, which he has not done, in 12 long years. (The problem now -- and it IS a big one in my view because I do believe in internationalism -- is that the Nations are no longer United.)

"Fact is, the new American concevatives are not concervatives at all, but reactionaries who are playing fast and easy with the elimental rights that define us as a people." I completely agree, which is why I oppose the excesses of Ashcroft & Co. Understand, I am not a new American conservative (neoCon). Hell, I'm not even an OLD American conservative (paleoCon), though admittedly I USED to be one, long ago, circa Goldwater. (I didn't say I'm not Old; just not Conservative.:) But, even we liberals can oppose murderous fascistic tyrants who at the moment happen to be brutalizing countries other than our own. In fact, ESPECIALLY we liberals should oppose them. (See Elie Wiesel's recent statement re Iraq.)

"You claim that these are new times." Yeah, sadly, I do; & I think I'll stand by that particular claim. Hard to refute.

"...If American rights could survive the war against hitler, I expect they can servive any struggle against sadam husain..." Again I agree, with both the expectation & the implicit moral equivalence. (Incidentally, *Hitler* didn't directly attack the U.S. either. Hirohito did. Oh sure, Germany declared War on us after we did against their ally Japan following Pearl Harbor; but still, did we *really* Give Peace A Chance with ol' Adolf? Exhaust all the diplomatic avenues? Y'know, like France did?? / Hm, yeah, I think so too.) But as to American rights surviving, we must be vigilant against Ashcroft's extreme domestic agenda, as well as against Saddam's & (distinctly) Osama's transnational ones. For, ultimately, the same reason: preservation of liberty.

"...I am reminded of American concervatives telling me love it or leave it,..." I would never tell you, or anyone, that. And, neither would a *true* conservative. (Granted, an endangered species these days.)(Hi, Doug R. Howareya?:)

- TransIdeological Pooka


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 04:45 PM

What's worse is that those childish f##king Republican geniuses in the U.S. House of Representatives stole the public's time to ACTUALLY PASS RESOLUTIONS TO CHANGE THE NAMES OFFICIALLY to "Freedom Fries" and "Freedom Toast"- being, as usual, too f##king dimwitted to realize that the Fries were named an American by the NAME of French, and that the Toast is of Belgian origin.

Jesus Wept.

Stand Tall, America!


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: DougR
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 05:13 PM

Hi Pooka, I'm just fine thank you! Especially so since TTR memoralized me in poetry on one of the threads (forget which one). Being famous will be difficult to adjust to because I'm such a modest person, but I'll try to adjust.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 05:23 PM

Do you mean to say, DougR, that all this time you've been holding fast to your position (whatever it is), we could have bought you with a song? Sheesh, if we'd only known this a bit earlier.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: X
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 05:43 PM

When the dust clears away there will be an A-bomb in one of Sadam's bunkers and the instructions on how to use it will be in French.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 05:48 PM

Well< I'm ashamed to say that though I had heard of the Dixie Chicks I had never actually heard anything by them until a couple of weeks ago when I was surfing on the TV and there they were playing a wonderfully arranged and rendered song entitled "Soldiers Marching". I was spellbound by their talent a delivery and just had to wait until itwas over to find out who they were.

Well, that doesn't have anything to do with the thread but, hey, I'm proud that one of those ladies had the courage to express herself. Yeah, given their NASCAR, Budweiser and Bubba audience, I think its great. This audience, unfortunately are mostly the Epsilons of society and have been dumbed down sufficient for their roles. Yeah, I'm sure someone is gonna think I'm being aroogant here and maybe I am, but it's true. I've known a bunch of these folks in my day and live in an area that has more than it's share. I love to see someone step out from winning a NASCAR race and say something. I'm sure there are folks on the circuit who have anit-war opinions but in these days, the 1st Ammendment ain't doing too well.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: The Pooka
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 05:49 PM

DougR, LOL!! Congratulations! Aaah you'll adjust to fame just fine. All you conservatives are innately humble. You inherit your self-effacing dispositions from the Godfather: Bill Buckley. :) hee hee hee - The Mother of All Modesty, by Allah...NYC Mayoral candidates' debate, 1965 - moderator, concluding the program: "Mr. Buckley, would you like to make any further remarks?" WFB Jr.: "No, I think I'll just contemplate the great eloquence of my previous remarks."

& Greg F, hawhaw!! Oui, d'accord. But the House Repubs are upholding a venerable tradition of silliness. Since I'm bumbling down Memory Lane here anyway: there was once an occasion when House Minority Leader Gerald R. Ford of Michigan, in a big speech on the floor, announced his caucus's new program formally entitled Constructive Republican Alternative Proposals. / Evidently Gerry hadn't thought about the acronym. The Dems did, though...real quick... / I say (though reluctantly), throw Saddam out with his filthy Ba'athwater, since all the alternatives are now even worse; and (not reluctantly) quit projecting our frustration & anger onto people like The Dixie Chicks (for God's sake!) and Jacques Chirac. Like we can pursue our national interests as we see them, but he can't pursue his. C'mon. (But if we *must* Francebash, then at least let's get les produits correcte.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: InOBU
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 06:12 PM

Ah Pooka, my hat is in deed off to you and I see we agree on a number of things, so, niether of us in a pigion holed thinker. I am glad you see the danger to basic rights these times have brought about, I just wish you saw the war in the same light, but well, that is what makes horse races eh?
As to this being moved to the BS threads... Joe no offence, but it shows the sorry state of American free thought. This is very much a music thread... as a working New York folk musician who just had a gig canciled a few hours after I was booked, because of fear of my advocacy for Lynne Stewart... the statements of folk musicians in the new McCarthy age IS not abstract political talk, it is about our music industry... Joe, think about moving this back where it belongs. But, of course, it is your call.
Cheers
Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 07:16 PM

Well Jeri, you is right and I is wrang! Yup the code you speak of is the boss here, but that does not mean I ain't madder than a fox in a bread basket, fact is I asked could get a few shots at em meself, but they said A too old and B too darned mad.

Oh well, let that chic eat it for a week then we may think about forgiving her!

(:


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Troll
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 11:09 PM

Greg, if you knew all that and knew that the House was doing that resolution bit, why didn't you call up and clue them in? You could have kept them from making a laughingstock of themselves/
Or is that why you didn't warn them.

troll

ps. I assume that the facts you quoted are common knowledge among the populance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Kim C
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 10:19 AM

Arne, I can't speak for Mark Twain; but personally, I believe that the freedom of speech carries with it the responsibility of knowing when it's time to keep yer yap shut.

While Twain was a master at pulling people's legs, I don't believe he did it 100% of the time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Beccy
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 05:56 PM

Perhaps someone more enlightened than I could explain how in the world a singer voicing a political opinion from the comfort of a foreign country instead of from a stage in their own country qualifies her as "heroic"??? I'd be more impressed if she made her pronouncement from an arena in Houston. In the meantime, I think Natalie Maines was a serious wuss and I'm irritated enough to put off purchasing a copy of "Home".


Beccy


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: wilco
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 06:41 PM

Three music stores here in Southeast Tennessee trashed their CDs. These were mom&pop operations. One of thes stores had a bunch of Ricky Scaggs CDs, Big Mon, which had a cut by the Dixie Chicks on them. They got canned too. Local radio stations pulled them from their play lists. My daughter trashed hers too.

Pretty soon, they will be opening for Peter, Paul, and Mary.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,joe
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 08:42 PM

they're still more popular than jesus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: InOBU
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 08:49 PM

Wilco48... Well it is nice to see CD trashing, the modern equivelant of book burning is alive and well in America. The whole idea of a Kristalnacht to go along with the part 2 "Patriot Act" shows that this legislation is in deed what America wants. Well, lets take stock, internment without charge or trial, removal of citizenship, torture, deportation... and destroying one's work in public... what year is it... 1936?
Cheers'
Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: InOBU
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 08:50 PM

PS It is nice to see that the wee man in the White House has no territorial claims in Iraq... does he paint landscapes as well?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 09:10 PM

Danged, Larry! Why didn't ya' tell mem that the knicklehead was gonna be on? I just had my tele-poli-graph calibrated and wanted to give it a good test. Oh well...

So, ahhh, did you keep a score card?

I have a formula that works purdy good fir Bush. I figure 1 *minor* lie per minute and 1 *major* lie every 7 minutes, depending on wind speeed, of course.

Now, if ya give 5 points to the major lies and 1 oint to the minors, after a while you can get some kind of bio-rythmic thing going.

So, how'd Bush do tonight? His average 2.3 lpm's (lies per minute).

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: YOR
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 12:50 PM

Great post Bobert. GW is burning on a solid 40 watts.

Anywho, I tried to post this yesterday but things got hung up.

Ain't free speakin great!

This national trend of disagreeing with the big G or the Prez makes you un-american has gone much much to far.

The Dixie Chicks just made a quick comment intended to get reaction from the audience.

Many years ago Don Henley while touring with The Eagles made this big speech in the middle of the show about saving Walden pond, clean water and save the trees. The audience boo'ed him and he replied that they didn't care. That's it Don, insult your audience, way to go. They cared! They cared that they spent $75 a seat to hear music, not a political rally.

Enjoy, Roy


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 01:01 PM

Jed Marum may just be the most eloquent person on this forum. And for Bobert - yep - no one that follows NASCAR has a dentist, made it through grade school, or does anything without checking with Bill France.

Fuck the chicks and fuck you - arrogant POS hippy wannabe from Virginia - Virginia? Say isn't that where all of NASCAR folks went to school?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Kim C
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 01:10 PM

Hey, wait a minute now. I like NASCAR. My brother likes NASCAR. We both have Bachelor's Degrees - mine from Belmont College in Nashville, TN (now Belmont University), and his from the University of Kentucky. We both have dazzling smiles with real teeth. I actually go to the dentist twice a year to keep mine. He probably does too but I never asked him.

Who's Bill France?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 02:15 PM

Bill France started NASCAR - :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: JohnnyBeezer
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 02:15 PM

Ok, Let's saddle up and get back in the war!!
Johnny N


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Kim C
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 02:19 PM

Oh, okay then. I didn't know that. This is only my second season keeping up with racing. How about that photo finish on Sunday! I'm surprised Kurt Busch didn't put his foot in his mouth after he got second place...


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 02:26 PM

It was a fine race - mainly gentle men that race in the circuit so they rarely bad mouth each other - as opposed to Bobert's jerkwad rantings above as to heritage. (Those of us who follow the circuit are not always gentle people).

And whoever put "heroic" and "dixie chicks" in the same sentence doesn't have a clue. That would be analogous to John Wayne actually being a "hero." Rubbish -


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Marion
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 03:34 PM

The phrase "respect the office" has come up a few times - what does that mean exactly?

Marion


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 03:40 PM

It comes from the Officer Corps. One may not respect the individual officer but one must respect the rank. It's the assumption that by virtue of obtaining the position one should be respected - but not always. But the position itself is one of respect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,joe
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 03:43 PM

she's quoting monica.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Kim C
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 04:09 PM

Yeah, gentlemen except for Kurt Busch and Jimmy Spencer and who was it that got suspended last year for smacking someone on pit road?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 04:17 PM

Kim:

Do you really think that time to sit back, be silent, and
let others do the thinking for you, is when people's lives
are on the line?

Just a thought.

As for Mark Twain, do you seriously think that he thought
it a good think to keep one's mouth shut? You'd have a
hard time convincing this Mark Twain fan that he thought
that "silence if golden". If he did, he was the world's
biggest hypocrite, and I'm firmly convinced he was no such
think.

Mr. Soresomethingoranother:

    Arne, I don't think you play or sing squat! I suspect you are
    on some payroll-which one?-, and worried about the bottom
    line, as well as being a certain kind of person who will say
    or do almost anything for more green stuff, hence your presence
    here, did the 'Manager' send you, are you the dude with the
    Limo?

Dunno, Mr. SF, sounds like _you're_ the one here who's been
bought. No, I'm not on any "payroll". Yes, I do play,
but not professionally. Yes, I was DJ for a number of
years, working for _nothing_, because I loved it. Why do
you assume that I must be on the take to hold the positions
I do? I'm curious.

    This thread is not about G W Bush, it is about a big mouthed
    babe . . .

... who was commenting on Dubya.

    . . . who dragged an entire state into her foreign public
    arena privilidged US citizen entertainer put down of G W,
    it is about the fact that lots of people in Texas not only
    disaggree with her, but take the opposite view, . . .

Imagine my surprise. But it doesn't seem thatthe cause iof
your ire was her supposed misrepresentation of the feelings
of Texas. Hell, you're just as free to tell the world what
_you_ think that the Texas Borg thinks, and it seems you're
doing it, so I'm not sure I see what you're complaining
about.

                                             . . . it is about
    Texas ain't cowardly, it is about hushing some little spoilt
    brat who is putting Allied lives in danger by her drunk
    drugged MISINFORMED outburst, . . .

Into ad hominem attack IC.

    finaly it is about a measured and appropriate response - not
    the sort that Saddam and Co would be dealing out=a firing
    squad= though at first that did occur to me- in short Mr
    Arne moneygrabber it is about knowing the difference between
    fact and fantasy.

"Mr Arne moneygrubber", eh? Your discernment for fact would
explain your position vis a vis Dubya's lies as well, I
suppose. . . .

    To sell more CDs . . .

LOL. You think she was trying to seel more CDs????

            . . . she blabbed and she stabbed Texas in the
    BACK now she got caught and has to be gagged. Her bleatings
    about how sorry she is, ain't gonna help her at all, this
    is War. . . .

IC. Natalie Maines has joined the ranks of "Sodamn Insane"
and Hitler, even?

       . . . Not only will Joepublic not buy her shit, I am
    willing to bet some enlisted babe will take a poke at her.
    So B4 this is ova, Earl's fate may be one she prays for.

IC. Glad to see your true nature coming through.

    My response is 'hey Chics remember Earl, yeah that one?,
    the cops have reopened the case, and you are No 1 suspects'

You seem to be having difficulty making an aquaintance with
reality.

Cheers,

                              -- Arne Langsetmo


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST, herc
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 04:30 PM

Silliness. Just a bleached blonde being a bleached blonde. I doubt that Samuel Clemens would talk trash about his family outside the family. And if he didn't talk substance, he would at least use wit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: JedMarum
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 04:59 PM

wow - I go off an celebrate St Patrick's Day, and I miss out on all this fun! I don't know where to begin ...

Yeah Rick, maybe it's a tempest in a teacup. I'm already over it. Truth is I like the Chick's music - not a fan, but appreciate their work and their style - I don't suppose this'll make much difference to me down the road.

michaelr - I never talked about the war with Brian, but I don;t see this as an idealogical issue. I believe, as most Americans do, that we can wait for this war to come to us, or take care of it now. That is not an idealogical point-of-view.

anyway - lots of other comments here, but I'm not bothered about the subject anymore.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: YOR
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 05:17 PM

I nominate Bobert for the daily prize of luring in a gutless guest (or two).


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,Texas
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 05:20 PM

Arne the DJ says 'You seem to be having difficulty making an aquaintance with
reality.'

Business must be REAL bad down at the Radio Station.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 05:44 PM

I second the nomination for Bobert - being one I should know - right?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 01:19 PM

Arne, I don't know where you got the idea that I EVER sit back and let anyone think for me. You don't know me. If you did, you would not have made such a ridiculous remark.

I think everyone with decent manners knows that there is a time to keep one's mouth shut. Yelling Fire in a crowded theatre and all that. Isn't that why we have two ears and one mouth?

All freedoms carry responsibilities with them. I have the freedom to own a gun, but I have the responsibility not to aim it recklessly at people. Words are the same way, Arne. They are powerful tools that shouldn't be used indiscriminately.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:35 PM

Don't worry Kim C, off of the internet Arne is a ?????.

"Arne the DJ says 'You seem to be having difficulty making

->>>an aquaintance with

reality.'<<<---

Business must be REAL bad down at the Radio Station. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 12:19 PM

Mr. Soresomethingoranother apparently also has difficulty
reading. I said I _was_ a DJ (for no pay) for a number
of years. A bit of intelligence or a Google search might
have come up with the conclusion that I wasn't a DJ at
a commercial station, so comments about "business [being]
real bad" are probably poorly aimed. This station did
_not_ have a play list, and I played whatever I damn
well pleased, as I'm sure the present DJs do as well.

Kim:

When you sit back and accept that there is no recourse
but _immediate_ war, or acquiesce to its legitimacy
because it's already started, you're letting others
do your thinking for you. If _you_ have decided that
this war is necessary _right now_, well and fine; we'll
disagree. But if you were of a different opinion but
now think that the time for silence has come, then I
think you do not do your own thoughts proper justice.
This is not a matter of yelling fire in a crowded
theatre. If anyone has been yelling "fire", I'd say it's
the maladministration with its colour code du jour and
its warnings of boogeymen in the night.

As for responsibility, I'd say that if you think that
war should only be a last resort, and that there is no
need to push to war at the _earliest_ possible moment,
then responsibility is _telling_ people that this is
what you think. Silence in the face of evil is no
virtue; in fact, there are those that say that such
silence has accounded for quite a few tragedies in
the course of history.

Herc:
I didn't know that Natalie Maines was related to Dubya,
and that this was just a little internecine feud of no
interest or consequence to the rest of us.
Thanks for that bit of info.

Cheers,

                            -- Arne Lnagsetmo


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST, herc
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 12:38 PM

Arne: Put another way: She must not have been "well brought up." It most certainly is of no consequence. (Goofballs burning CD's and such, well, they have their priorities mixed up, and you are welcome for the small bit of advice to keep your own aligned.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Kim C
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 01:11 PM

Arne, if you go and read some of my other postings on other threads, I have said that I think war is only a last resort. I agree with you that people do have a responsibility to say what they think; but I also think, sometimes the time and place are not appropriate for such.

That is something I had to learn after many long years of getting in trouble because I opened my mouth at the wrong time, or said the wrong thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: DougR
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 03:54 PM

Aw, Kim, I'm sure you didn't do that! :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 11:51 AM

Kim:

I've been fortunate enough to be able to speak my piece
without getting into "trouble" (or at the least without
someone else's contrary opinions getting in the way of
me doing what I think should be done).

I understand that many people think they need to "hold their
tongue" under certain circumstances, but I still maintain
that to do so is moral failure, at least when speaking
out does indeed have some effect.

I worry a bit that the current atmosphere will indeed slope
down to the point when speaking one's mind _will_ get
people in trouble. It has happened before, and I don't
think it's all that far off again. Silence such as
you recommend only encourages those that _would_ like
to stifle all dissent (and I hate to say it, but that'd
be the powers that be in Washington right now).

"Watch what you say ... what you do", sez the maladministration. . . .

Cheers,

                         -- Arne Langsetmo


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Kim C
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 01:25 PM

Arne, I recommend silence in situations where good manners and decency are important, not in life and death situations. For instance, if your lady says, "does this outfit make me look fat?" you're probably better off not saying anything. But if your best friend is obviously drinking too much, you'll want to speak up and say, hey pal, gimme the keys.

I've always been amazed at news reports from people who say things like "I heard the screaming next door but I didn't want to get involved." Sure, in that instance you have a moral obligation to get your ass off the couch and call the police, or whatever you have to do.

But I don't think I have a moral obligation to tell a coworker he's an asshole, even if that's what I really think.

For me, as a performer, being in front of an audience requires some good manners and decency. I don't believe that Natalie Maines was trying to make a protest as much as she was trying to ingratiate herself to a foreign audience. If she truly wanted to talk about peace in our time, I think she could have done a much better job of it IF she had taken 2 seconds to think about it. A better choice of words could have been, "we don't support the course of action our country is taking."

Maybe she should borrow one of Sheryl Crow's t-shirts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: GUEST,Finbar Boyle
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 08:53 PM

As a foreigner (Irish) I can only re-iterate what was printed on a home-made placard carried by an American Mormon here in Dublin;

HE WASN'T ELECTED.
HE EXECUTED CHILDREN.
HE LINED HIS POCKETS.
LIBERATE AMERICA.

He's a moronic buffoon, but he's surrounded by criminals with a bigger agenda.

Peace, please,and you who have voices in the US - nip the Fourth Reich in the bud.

Finbar Boyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Dixie Chicks Heroic Peace Band
From: Beccy
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 09:21 AM

Hey Finbar- I for one voted for "him" and am glad he is in office. I find your obvious hatred of George Bush interesting. If you detest him so much, move over here and vote him out of office.
Even you must admit that the "not elected" salvo you volleyed is debatable at best.

Beccy


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Mudcat time: 18 September 11:48 PM EDT

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