Folk Clubs- We need them!

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 06:59 PM

I used to try and make people feel at home at my regular club (of the time) but there is a balance that you can never get exactly right - to appraoch and be friendly or to intrude. Only the people involved know which that is. I erred on the side of bothering - most club members were passive. I was never part of the "organisation" but as a club member I regarded the wellbeing of the club part and parcel - we take-out so we put in.

I think it is more correct to say FC's need us rather than the other way round.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 06:27 PM

Lack of folk clubs may be part of the problem. I think another part is that no one just sings for the fun of it anymore. Also, very few people just have informal jams anymore. These jams could include young folks and experienced folkies could sing young folks songs or make them up as they go. Creativity is what's needed. Young folks will respond if something is provided for them.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: breezy
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 06:10 PM

Phil, ours isnt.
however
There are many performers who are trapped in a 'time warp'
but
Many fine songs have been written since those days and are being written now and they are 'folk-songs' in the true sense of the word.
also
There are many fine folk artistes too.
we dont have to compromise
the younger folk will find it if its good enough
last week we found a couple and the rendition of Lord Bateman was highly recommendable
the singers name?
Dylan
from Hemel Hempstea?d

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: GUEST,returnee
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 02:39 PM

I said it before and i'll say it again - "folk" clubs will have to loosen up and become more welcoming and ACCEPTING to the whims and wiles of younger folk. cos when the older "hard core"(sic) folkies
pass behind the veil, there will be no-one to carry on? the tradition.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 02:24 PM

Phil - I think you're right

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: phil h
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 02:17 PM

But aren't 'Folk Clubs' still full of the same people who started them 40 years ago? People who are trapped in time & are just nostalgic for the music that was around when they first got laid, who would as soon sing everly brothers songs as traditional material. Don't folkies under the age of 50 choose to go to sessions & singarounds instead?

Phil

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: breezy
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 01:19 PM

I run a folk club, yeah big deal.

I visit clubs and sessions and invite people I hear who if I think are up to it to come and play at the club.
I am also fortunate in organising a 'pub lounge' gig that can accommodate floor spots, then I also run-MC a singaround session where anyone can play.
This is how we have built a sound basis of quality residents and how we have booked some lesser known artistes.
Our audience depends on my judgment.
If I expect the audience to pay I must give them good value in return.

I think the way ahead is to book a Name, and a lesser known performer as a support act plus 2-3 residents per evening.
Unless I know the artist, I would want to hear them perform first.

My major discoveries include: George Papavgeris, singer-songwriter of the highest calibre, whose songs are creeping into the repertoire of among others Martyn W-R
Brad Bradstock for M-Keynes, and the living archive tradition
and Hilary Ward, the 'Linnet from Luton' ex Luton Girl's choir , remember them?
There are others too

Yes there is a place for folk clubs and we must support them and each club must support other clubs too.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: selby
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 05:04 AM

We ran a Folk Club for many years and although there was and still is a thriving folk scene in our area we found that people wanted to play in sessions went to see who they wanted at festivals as well as what has been said by other people.
Personaly I think it is a great shame that our tradition has lost it venue's, where performers did their apprentiship.
We recently went to see a young star very good performance etc but something lacking and a fortnight later was entertained by a old star who had learn't is trade in the folk clubs. I think thats what we are losing at the moment.
Keith

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: vectis
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 09:10 PM

We are so lucky down here in Sussex. There are several clubs that book guests and survive on a shoestring budget. Performers who are willing to string a line of us together and stay on the road for several nights with us providing accommodation are what keeps us afloat.
It is really difficult to get people out to see new or unknown acts so it is hard work to find the funds to pay them a decant wage. On the other hand the performers need the clubs willing to take risks on unknown acts to become known and, therefore, better paid.
We all walk a tightrope and try furiously to balance the books enough to keep going in order to encourage the next generation of new performers who will become tomorrows stalwarts, stars and well loved performers.
Clubs and performers need each other to survive.
We'd all love another revival :-)

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: vindelis
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 07:24 PM

The clubs around Dorset, that seem to be doing well, are all monthly events; namely: Royal Wessex Hotel Dorchester, The Elm Tree Langton Herring, The Weaver's Club Sherbourne, and others at Fifehead Magdelene and Winterborne St. Andrew. The attendance at the weekly session at The Cove Inn on Portland and the sing-around at The Ship Inn, in Weymouth tend to fluctuate a bit, but as with all events of this nature there is always the hardcore of dedicated people to keep everything ticking over. Each locality has its own dedicated group of singers and musicians. There is another small group of people who seem to stray from 'their' patch and 'do the rounds' on a regular basis, visiting all of the clubs in the county, breathing fresh air into them. I just wish that there were MORE younger people in the clubs, we do have one or two youngsters, but the vast majority in the Weymouth/Portland/Dorchester/Langton Herring area are forty+.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: Sooz
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 09:00 AM

Good clubs, well attended (mostly) in Lincolnshire and South Yorkshire - all with their own individual features and all very welcoming.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 08:55 AM

A very good idea, the "meet and greet", Deni - something other clubs could usefully emulate.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: Deni-C
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 08:24 AM

Lowkey -

We've tried to make sure visitors get a welcome by appointing someone to Meet and Greet. She's very charming and a couple of the committee sit near the door to catch the stragglers. The only danger is they'll feel TOO welcome and be terrified off. during the breaks we all circulate chatting, mainly becuase we're nosy and want to know whether they play and their shoe size....

You can just imagine.
Sinister voice, creepy smile,

'come IN my dears, sit DOWN, be welcomed to the Hyde Folk Clb.... '

we even have a mascot called....Jekyll.

Best Wishes

Deni

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 08:09 AM

The Open Door in Failsworth struggles manfully on despite only having a handful of regulars...we have guest nights (pretty high quality if you check out the website) once a month and a couple of Extravaganza's every year..sort of mini-festivals, all funded by weekly raffles as we don't charge on singers nights. However, as I stated before, the club is struggling with a dozen or so regulars who provide the weekly contributions which subsidise our £2 - £4 admission charges on the Guest nights. The organizers, Pauline and John have done a wonderful job keeping the club together but it sometimes feels we're beating our collective heads gainst a brick wall.

The rise of the festivals in recent years has no doubt contributed somewhat to the decline of the folk club but without the clubs most festival 'stars' could not have learnt their trade.

Good luck to every folk club organizer and thank you to everyone who makes an attempt to support their local club...to those who make no effort to attend or support clubs in their area...one day it might be too late!

Best wishes................Harry Basnett.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: GUEST,Lowkey
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 08:07 AM

Here in the N.E Scotland there are quite a few clubs, but a lot seem to be run by and for the committee. Strangers are not made to feel really wellcomed only tolerated, persevere and go back a few times and as your face gets known attitudes change. I don't know the answer to the problem.
Bill

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 07:59 AM

the Woods of West Midlands are full of a lot of things - like motorways and old cars. for the FC's a good palce to start is cresby.com

The dance scene seems more boyant these days.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 07:16 AM

There are only sessions and singarounds here in Shropshire and the Welsh Borders. (There is a folk club in Hereford and another in Monmouth) but the woods of the West-Midlands are full of 'em.

Sal

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: Deni-C
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 07:13 AM

Here in the Plymouth area of the Southwest of England, we have two local clubs, the Hyde and Folk on the Moor.

Ours is the Hyde, which attracts around 40 listeners and players per week. Sometimes we get an influx of students from language school and the university, and sometimes we get as many as 60 people, but I have noticed that most of these want to perform, and on guest nights the attendance drops to around 30. This despite the fact that we only charge £2.50 or £2.50 as gust nights are subsidised by the club. We still feel it's worth putting on guests however, for the liteners and for the fact that if folk clubs don't book guests then who is going to.... I alsways tell guests is nothing personal when only 30 people show up, but they often think this is a good-sized audience compared with audiences elsewhere.

What winds our club members up more than anything is performers with an 'adore me' attitude. Audiences are willing to be won over, but they won't automatically like a performer just because they are good at what they do (that being kind of taken for granted). Therefore the stagecraft angle is essential. Clubs are a valuable training ground. Maybe they should get a grant from the education authority.....

What we need to remember is that a lot of guests we'd consider well-known, are unknown to people who don't read the folk press, follow festivals etc.... I've found when we stopped using the word 'local' in publicity, more listeners turned out for say, a regional guest.

The image we portray is in our hands. People will come if you promote it in the right way.
Deni
Mad Rush


http://www.beehive.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/hydefolk

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 06:33 AM

I'm in the same area as Leadfingers, and from what I see around the clubs that do well tend to be the ones that "look after their audience". Let's face it, the majority of attendance at most local clubs is at least 2/3 (and as much as 90%) singers. And it's not hard attracting local performers, but to make the thing pay you need listeners.

But exclusive tactics and practices, "clicky" attitudes etc, where they occur - and they do occur unfortunately - all work against the need to attract new bums on seats. There are happy exceptions (the Herga and Maidenhead clubs are good examples in the area, do visit them). But I have also been in clubs where the organisers will crack one in-house joke too many at the expense of audiences, turning them off and effectively shooting themselves on the foot.

At the end of the day, clubs need organisation, and that means both energy and imagination. Clubs blessed with such organisers will in the end do well, provided they pay attention to the needs of the audience.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: Bernard
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 05:59 AM

Sadly, if people don't attend folk clubs it means they aren't needed. Here in Bolton, Lancs, there hasn't been a decent folk club for many years - the one I ran in the mid 1980s had to close through lack of support, and a few others suffered a similar fate.

Things like Karaoke (literal translation 'empty orchestra'!) have been contributory factors to the unwillingness of people to give proper attention to those with musical skill and a good singing voice...

Ho hum...

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: Strupag
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 05:49 AM

I'm in the North West of Scotland vindelis and I don't know of any folk clubs in the whole Highland area. There used to be dozens.
I dont think there is any alternative to a FC for allowing new artists to face an audience and learn all the relevent skills but perhaps we, the public, are no longer willing to sit and listen to someone learning any more.
The Feis movement up here is growing tremendously and we have many very tallented youngsters playing instruments extremely well. It's just the perfoprmance thing and rapor with and audience that is lacking.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 08:00 PM

It all seems to be in patches and very cyclic. Round here (UK West of London) we have a good choice of clubs with some very good local singers and musicians,but still some clubs fade away and other are revitalised.It doesnt take many people to relocate (jobs or whatever)
to either kill a club or bring it back to life.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: vindelis
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 07:39 PM

I don't know what sort of catchment area Strupag is talking about, but I can say that, the folk club on Portland (UK) folded, as above, through people singing the same songs to the same people week after week. I don't feel that the drink-driving legislation has helped a lot, (combined with the two mile beach road, between Portland and the 'mainland'). Two miles may not seem much to some people, but somehow it seems to be a psycological barrier, both for 'them over there' and 'us' on the island. There are occaisions, when events on 'the mainland' are not supported by 'us', for the same reason! The other problem that seems to rear its ugly head from time to time, is folk club 'politics' - you know 'A' falls out with 'B' over some relatively small point, because the indestructable force has hit the immovable object. I apologise for my ramblings. V.

Subject: Folk Clubs- We need them!
From: Strupag
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 07:04 PM

I got a pm recently from a very talented lady across the pond looking for gigs in Scotland and it made me realise, that although the music scene here is buzzing, there is a dearth of venu's and opertunities for the solo performers, particularly those who write and sing their own material.
I feel that the demise of Folk Clubs is a big factor- BUT - The demise came through a lack of attendence to the venues.
Is this the the case throughout the Mudcat world?
It's a tough one, I know, but perhaps one worthy of debate