The Gypsy Project--WOW

Subject: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: Mudlark
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 02:00 PM

Went to a spectacular concert last night, Bireli Lagrene's Gypsy Project. He, and his equally fantastic violinist, Florin Niculescu head up a quartet that is dedicated to Le Jazz Hot a la Django/Stephane...but the twists and turns they take with this basic premise are brilliant. They are backed up by Thomas Dutronc, rhythm guitar and Diego Imbert, double bass, no slouches either. Lagrene, a Sinti gypsy, shares Reinhardt's Belgian-Gypsy roots, but I think has taken this music to even higher limits. Inventive, electrifying speed, wonderful interchange between guitar and violin... If you get a chance to see these guys, don't miss it!

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: C-flat
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 02:08 PM

As a die-hard Django fan I have to agree that Lagrene has really nailed the spirit of Gypsy Jazz. Another band who make you want to burn your guitar is The Rosenberg Trio. They're as close to Reinhardt as I've ever heard!
I wonder what Reinhardt would be playing if he were alive today?
Modern Jazz?

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 02:09 PM

I was going to try to make it to their show in Minneapolis Tuesday, but it doesn't look like I'll be able to make it. (It'll probably be sold out by the time I get back into town Monday) I've only heard them on cd, but I agree, brilliant.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: Mudlark
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 02:29 PM

I wonder if Reinhardt would have wandered off into fusion-rock, as Lagrene did for a while. I'm glad he wandered back. And watching him play made me think of a remark recently made here about fingering...something like "after all, I bought the whole neck!" Lagrene's guitar has a huge sound hole, high on the instrument and almost as wide as the waist...and the fret board goes all the way to it...and he plays a LOT there...dont know how he gets his hand wrapped around the guitar, even tho it is cut away somewhat. On the other hand, the rhythm guitar had an unusually small sound hole, no wider than the fret board.

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: C-flat
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 03:34 PM

Most of the gypsy players favour the small sound hole. I must confess that I don't know wether it's for that compressed sound or wether it's about style but they do look like sexy guitars!

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 07:21 AM

The small sound hole was to project the sound further for the lead instrument. Personally, I think Bireli is definately an EQUAL to Django and is the best modern player in that style. He swings better than any other player and that is the most important thing within that style.

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: Mudlark
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 04:13 PM

SB Protege...

Please illucidate on sound hole size. Rhythm guitar/very small hole (yes, very sexy!), Bireli's HUGE sound hole, 3X bigger, it looked to me, and not round but lozenge shaped, higher on guitar I think, and nearly to the edge at the waist of the body, a jeallybean shaped hole, long ways at right angles to neck. If small hole projects more..???? Though my knowledge of Reinhardt is not exhaustive, if anything, I think Bireli not only equals his skill but is more versatile...ditto for Niculescu vs Grapelli on violin.

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: GUEST,steve benbows protege
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 02:44 AM

No, in the old days the d shaped sound hole was for rhythm guitars. Think sound waves here. If you have a great gaping hole the sound will escape quicker. If you have a small hole the sound will reverberate more and then leave through a small hole. These days it doesn't matter as they are all miked up or have a pick up in them!
As for bireli, I was being polite. As a Jazz guitarist myself, it is etiquete (I have found) that you say the pupil has equalled the master, especially when the master is dead. As for Niculescu, however, I will say that in my opinion he is much better than Grapelli.
Oh, Babik ( Django's son) favoured the Gibson es-175 as did most of his hot club of france.
   Enjoy the style it is truelly undervalued and underplayed. (That is the style i play.)
   With regards.
    Pete.

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 02:42 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: Mudlark
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 04:50 PM

Pete...thanks so much for the input. And, no sarcasm intended, thanks for the etiquette lesson! Being a 12=chord wonder I worship at the feet of great guitarists but am not close enough to being a card-carrying member to even know when I'm not being polite. I felt blessed just to have been able to see these extraordinary musicians in person.

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: GUEST,steve benbows protege.
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:44 AM

You are all very welcome. It is my preferential playing style. My guitar teacher's musical partner ( Denny Wright - Lonnie donnigans guitar man!) accompanied Grappelli, Diz Disley drops in to see Steve. Steve worked with a) Ivor Moraints who met and played with Django, b) Ike Isaacs who played with Grappelli, aswell as being around when a foureteen year old Fapy lafertain ( I never can spell his surname) travelled two days to see Diz play in london. So we have some knowledge of the style. Remember though, Django wanted to play like Eddie lang/ Joe Venuti who he had seen in Paris before the Hot club was started and Eddie Lang is one of the most under-appreciated jazz guitarist.
If i can be of assistance regarding guitars, playing, repertoire etc then everyone here is welcome to give me a shout.
   Best regards.
    pete.

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:30 AM

thanks pete. I will bear all that information in mind and if i need anything i will join and send you a message. Always useful to have a good connection here.

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 12:01 PM

Mudlark there are easy ways into the style.
A) Get/learn the chords from out of the front of the mickey baker book.
B) learn scales for different chord types.
C)learn arpeggio patterns. - there are only four/five i use.
D) LEARN THE TUNE AND VARY IT SLIGHTLY TO BEGIN WITH.
E) LEARN THE CHORD SEQUENCE. THAT IS WHAT YOU WILL BE PLAYING OFF.
That is the main part of it. LISTEN TO: Eddie Lang, Django, Bireli, Diz Disley(Playing with Grapelli), stuff smith, eddie south.
The style WILL come the more you listen to it. Mark O'Connor the bluegrass fiddler has released two hot club albums which shows change of style is possible. The fact you have 12 chords instead of the folk 4 or 5 holds you in good stead.
Enjoy, take on board ideas above even if you then use them for fiddle/bluegrass tunes.
If I can be of anymore help P.M me.
   with regards.
    Pete.

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:55 AM

Interesting points raised pete.

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: Mudlark
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 01:56 PM

Thanks, Pete, for the encouragement and direction. Will now go in search of Mickey Baker book, and will give it a go. But...I can't even LISTEN fast enough to keep up with these guys, let alone hope to play at one tenth their speed! That's ok...the world--and great musicians--need a knowledgeable and appreciative audience too.

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: C-flat
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 03:07 PM

If you can find someone to sit in with and play along with it will bring you on in leaps. Try learning the changes and rhythms before picking out the melody lines.
I played in a gypsy jazz trio for a couple of years and rarely took a solo but I certainly had my hands full keeping the rhythm driving along.
If I played every day for the next 50 years I'd never get close to Lagrene or D'jango but it's fantastically uplifting music to play, even if it means taking a few shortcuts, musically!

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 05:45 PM

Mudlark, I would see if you can borrow mickey baker. It is really the chords that you need(PG1) or a good jazz chord guide. As for speed, as long as you can ply the melody and chords it is erelevant. There are tricks for playing that speed. Benbow pulls that one occasionally just to make sure I ain't asleep!! As for being able to play close to django: Listen to the sound track to "sweet and lowdown." Nothing like as rough as django.
The rhythm: Think of a hi - hat on the drum. BOOM- chacka-BOOM - chacka - BOOM - chacka. THat's all there is to it. eventually it will syncopate itself.

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: Mudlark
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:16 PM

Like all magicians, Pete, you make it look easy! But as I've nowhere to go but up, I might as well try....couldn't hurt...

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 02:29 AM

Exactly! good positive attitude!! I like that.

Subject: RE: The Gypsy Project--WOW
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 08:55 AM

refresh