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Separation of Music and B.S.

GUEST,Sheila 16 Mar 03 - 06:54 PM
Art Thieme 17 Mar 03 - 11:19 AM
Joe Offer 17 Mar 03 - 11:30 AM
bet 17 Mar 03 - 04:59 PM
SINSULL 17 Mar 03 - 05:02 PM
Áine 17 Mar 03 - 05:03 PM
greg stephens 17 Mar 03 - 05:12 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 17 Mar 03 - 05:35 PM
GUEST 17 Mar 03 - 05:37 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 17 Mar 03 - 05:54 PM
The Shambles 17 Mar 03 - 07:04 PM
Tweed 17 Mar 03 - 07:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Mar 03 - 07:22 PM
Malcolm Douglas 17 Mar 03 - 08:08 PM
Bobert 17 Mar 03 - 08:39 PM
John Hardly 17 Mar 03 - 09:20 PM
greg stephens 17 Mar 03 - 11:52 PM
Sorcha 18 Mar 03 - 12:31 AM
The Shambles 18 Mar 03 - 02:04 AM
GUEST,Jon 18 Mar 03 - 08:43 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 18 Mar 03 - 09:25 AM
Bullfrog Jones 18 Mar 03 - 10:38 AM
catspaw49 18 Mar 03 - 10:49 AM
Jeri 18 Mar 03 - 10:57 AM
katlaughing 18 Mar 03 - 12:56 PM
GUEST 18 Mar 03 - 01:41 PM
BuckMulligan 18 Mar 03 - 01:45 PM
MMario 18 Mar 03 - 01:46 PM
harpgirl 18 Mar 03 - 01:56 PM
Ed. 18 Mar 03 - 03:54 PM
greg stephens 18 Mar 03 - 04:06 PM
Felipa 18 Mar 03 - 04:22 PM
GUEST,Russ 18 Mar 03 - 06:30 PM
toadfrog 18 Mar 03 - 10:35 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 18 Mar 03 - 10:39 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 18 Mar 03 - 10:43 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 18 Mar 03 - 11:51 PM
catspaw49 18 Mar 03 - 11:57 PM
harpgirl 19 Mar 03 - 12:06 AM
Rick Fielding 19 Mar 03 - 10:43 AM
JennyO 19 Mar 03 - 11:05 AM
GUEST,Jon 19 Mar 03 - 11:32 AM
Bill D 19 Mar 03 - 12:43 PM
Mudlark 19 Mar 03 - 04:32 PM
Joe Offer 19 Mar 03 - 08:55 PM
Padre 19 Mar 03 - 09:04 PM
Pene Azul 20 Mar 03 - 11:42 PM
GUEST,Jon 21 Mar 03 - 05:34 AM
Bullfrog Jones 21 Mar 03 - 08:37 AM
MMario 21 Mar 03 - 08:38 AM
ard mhacha 21 Mar 03 - 01:27 PM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Mar 03 - 04:55 PM
katlaughing 21 Mar 03 - 05:06 PM
Rick Fielding 21 Mar 03 - 05:49 PM
katlaughing 21 Mar 03 - 06:09 PM
lamarca 21 Mar 03 - 06:45 PM
GUEST,Jon 21 Mar 03 - 07:55 PM
GUEST,Jon 25 Mar 03 - 08:02 AM
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Subject: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 06:54 PM

I don't know why it's taken me a while to realize that this separation has been made, but THANK YOU! It certainly makes scrolling easier and more helpful. Thanks again, whoever you are!


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 11:19 AM

RIGHT ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Art


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 11:30 AM

Kudos go to Jeff/Pene Azul, who does most of our programming nowadays.
He's contantly working on new ideas.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: bet
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 04:59 PM

It took me awhile also and I'm all for it. Thanks!!!!!!! bet


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 05:02 PM

This is great! Thanks, Jeff.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Áine
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 05:03 PM

It seems like the best solution for all, definitely. I'm encouraged to visit more often, now that I don't have to wade through the non-music threads at the git-go. And if I want to dive into the BS (threads), one click and I'm as knee-deep as I want to be.

Fantastic job, my darlin' Jeff (as usual!) ;-)

-- Áine


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 05:12 PM

Well,I liked the old promiscuous mix-up, but it looks like I'm in the minority so I'll go with the democratic flow (though someone may be fixing the voting, I've heard about all those dimpled chads)


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 05:35 PM

Greg,

The old format is still there too. If you prefer it, just use this link http://www.mudcat.org/threads.cfm?mixbs=yes to access the "unsplit" forum and then bookmark it.

(No, I'm not geek enough to have figured that out on my own. Spaw mentioned it in this other thread on the same subject.)

Bruce


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 05:37 PM

shouldn't this be a BS thread?

No, not really. The topic is of general interest to the entire forum and more likely to be seen by all if not labeled as BS. -- JC


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 05:54 PM

GUEST,

Can we leave it up to Joe et al to be the arbiters of what is and isn't BS? And if you really think it needs to be changed - if you really want to play strictly by the rules - your comment should have been addressed to the Help Forum. (Go to the top of the page and look for the little word that says "Help" right under the "Go" on the Quicklinks menu.)

Bruce


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 07:04 PM

See also

Thread Proliferation Control


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Tweed
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 07:18 PM

I sorta liked wading around also Greg but like Bee-Dub says I can bookmark the other address. (which I'm gonna do right now...Thanks for the tip!)

Yerz,
Tweed (who is comprised mostly of BS and only a little music now and then)


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 07:22 PM

The distinction isn't between music and BS, it's between BS and things that aren't BS, which needn't necessarily be music. For that matter, it's perfectly possible to have music threads that are BS, though normally they aren't so labelled, and they tend to wind up in the top end of the page.

One interesting thing that the split brings out is the fact that there are so many more threads which are music than BS. I think this has always been the case, and that the common false impression to the contrary was because threads tend to get a steadier stream of responses when a discussion is active, so such threads tended to cluster up towards the top.

On the other hand, I suppose it's possible that the new arrangement is changing the balance between the two sorts, and increasing the number of music threads. Anyone feel like researching which is the truth? (For example via this time warp facility.)

And thanks Bee-dubya-ell for passing on that de-splitter - I'm with Greg in preferring it that way, so I'll bookmark it now.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 08:08 PM

I'm guessing, rather, that the removal of non-music threads to the bottom of the page means that we now have fewer knee-jerk posts, since people actually have to make a small effort to locate the "what colour underwear do you prefer, and should we go to war about it without a Public Entertainments Licence" threads. Additionally, the trolls are getting less immediate prominence.

I do read some of the BS threads, but only when I'm bored. Since I now have to make a special effort to look at them, I usually don't bother. The new approach may reduce the traffic on the site, but I don't think that will be a bad thing.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 08:39 PM

Well, I've never shyed away from this topic so why start now?

What I liked with Mudcat when I first came here was this wonderful mix of ideas. As folk musicans, we are *charged* with translating our observations of our times into verse and song. Yeah, I thought, "What a grand site!". People chatting politics, events, stories, folklore, songs, tabs, lyrics: all the things that I think make a folk musican.

Now we have become compartmentalized (female term for men when they try to distance themselves from what ever we are trying to distance ourselves from...)and next thing ya' know we'll have 15 different categories all meeetin' in different rooms.

How sad for folk music.

Hey, lots of folks may think its the new Catters that have added to the BS threads but it isn't. It's the times in which we live. And as folk musicans, unless we want to marginalize ourselves, we need to be paying close attention.

That's my take on the subject.

I liked the mix and I think the "seperate but equal" philosophy is counter-productive to producing folk music.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 09:20 PM

I like it.

I think that, though it has always been a "enter threads at your own risk" policy around here, this way, if you really are in a mood to sling shit or have it flung your way, it's REALLY your choice. You don't ever have to go...

.....below.

No more accidents -- and, more important, I think the music threads are treated with more respect -- less hijacking for general BS. Of course, there was that thread I started last week...


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 11:52 PM

I know you can(if youve acquired the info) remix the threads the old way, but my objection to the separation approach is that it has tended to divide Mudcatters into two groups. My choosing, or McGrath or Bobert or whoever, choosing to view the threads in the old way doesnt alter the fact that a split has been imposed on the majority of Mudcatters(by their own choice in most cases,obviosly). and I personally dont feel this has improved the overall feel of the place. As I've said, I admit I'm in a minority. At the moment!!!


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 12:31 AM

I can't help but think this whole discussion is funny.....sorry.It ain't up to us.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 02:04 AM

Not up to us?

All the changes to Max's original ideal have been forced on him by us. Indirectly or by people constantly complaining about what other people are doing.

Every one of these enforced changes appears to bring with unforseen problems, but still we insist on them.

Sorry, but it has always been up to us.....................


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 08:43 AM

Shambles, complaints are one thing but constant arguments are another. One can never provide the ideal for everyone but hope to accomodate everyone as well as possible. This change illustrates this. It provides a new default view but also allows those who prefer the old mixed view to have it that way.

Probably the key question in any of this is what Mudcat should be. My personal belief, based around the idea that Mudcat owes much of it's existance to the fact that it is the primary location for the dt and to past qualtiy musical contributions that Mudcat should give folk and blues music more importance than BS. I would not however argue that BS has no place in Mudcat, I would in fact argue that a certain community element is healthy for most of us. Other views may range from ideas that Mudcat should be soley about music to a general mis-mash of anything with no priority being given to anything.

What I do know is that there have been rows about BS for as long as I have read this forum. I am also aware that there have been many casualties and that musical contributers have been either lost or turned to a position where they contibute less frequently. On the subject of traditional ballads, one could count on one hand the people likely to provide quality accurate information. This, I believe is a very sad reflection on a forum holding what I belive is by far the largest collection of folk songs and with such a vast membership.

It aslo became clear that Mudcat was getting attacked by trolls starting BS threads. One could argue over the need to respond to trolls but like it or not, these threads were answered. Under the old view, these threads were frequently the most responded to and got straight back to the top. Apart from causing a distraction to some, can you not imagine the impression that can create for a first time visitor to the site? I would think it also fair to suggest that most people come here originally in a search for music and find themselves joining in with other stuff later.

I think the change in the default view (after all it is still possible to view the old way) will have an effect on the forum but perhaps one for the better. Apart from removing troublesome threads from immediate attention, I believe it will reduce the number of people joining with "general chatter" or even trouble making as thier main objective and that Mudcat will once again have some focus.

I don't see that this focus will detract in any way from friendships being made amongst lovers of music or that a community spirit should be weakend. I would instead suggest that with reasons for the constant waring for the past few years removed or reduced, the ability to have a true community will be strengthened.

Jon


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 09:25 AM

Sorcha, I think you might find that your craven, supine view would earn you few brownie points with Max. Without the community of people who mix here and use the place, Mudcat would be a waste of server space and Max's time.

So far, I'm in favour of the split and haven't resorted to Spaw's workaround. I only ever recommend Mudcat to people for its music/folklore content, so it suits me that the shop window now reflects that valuable content far better. It would appear that the predominence of BS threads that we sometimes saw was for the reason that McGrath explained - a handful of highly active threads pushing the rest aside.

On the other hand I see the logic of Greg's concern. We'll have to see what happens.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 10:38 AM

I'm in the mix-it-up crowd too, so thanks for the tip Bruce (and Spaw).

BJ


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 10:49 AM

Fionn, BJ, et al.....I didn't have anything to do with the other view/workaround. I just had passed on the info that Joe had posted. Personally, I use it the way it is and it seems to have reduced the squabbles.

Jon, that was an excellent synopsis of what's happened and why and how.....Thanks.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 10:57 AM

I don't think the split has divided Mudcatters. The same folks who read only music or only non-music are still only reading only music or only non-music, they just can find them more easily. The folks who read both, scroll. It makes a thread much easier to find if you knew it was, for instance, a political thread, but you can't remember the name. It doesn't much matter to me what other people do. What does matter is navigating Mudcat, and I think the sorting helps with that.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 12:56 PM

It has reduced Rick Fielding's feeling guilty about BSing, so it has to be good!:-)


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 01:41 PM

Gee, I thought we were all grown-ups here. I liked the old way..It was nice just to browse the topics. But I guess someone wise than I has to do it for me. I just like the paternalism of it.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 01:45 PM

Well GUEST, you can have it your way. That's the point. Or are you grumbling about having to make a choice in order to get what you want?


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: MMario
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 01:46 PM

Everytime I see this thread I keep reading "Church and State" - The big Question is: Which is Which?


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: harpgirl
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 01:56 PM

I think the change is absolutely brilliant and an elegant solution to complaints about too much BS, Guest posters, the tenor of the forum and the lack of focus on music. It hasn't had any negative effects that I can see. Finally, is all I can say!!!!!


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Ed.
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 03:54 PM

I love the change too, and I'd echo Spaw's praise of Jon's message. Brilliantly said, Jon.

Come up with a simple solution, that in a snap diffuses one of the biggest 'fights' here, and allows a user choice between the old and new system. Superb. The fact that a few still complain is I guess inevitable.

The only thing that I might suggest, is an easier way for those who prefer the 'old' system to hear about it.

I know that you don't want the top of the page too cluttered, but maybe a 'mix music and BS' link might help.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 04:06 PM

Totally agree with the previous post. it would virtually all my doubts if the option to choose was clearly avaiable when you actually come into Mudcat. There's already a clickie to take you straight to BS. Just have a clickie to either mix or separate.I'd`obviously prefer the default position to be mixed, but it wouldnt make much difference either way if it was accessible and obvious.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Felipa
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 04:22 PM

on the whole it is probably good that the music threads are now placed above other threads,although all threads are shown on the page. Newcomers to the site won't be under any misapprehension that it is primarily a music site.

Because most people who participate in Mudcat have a strong interest in music and song, lyrics often appear in so-called BS threads. Maybe these need to be garnered occasionally and published in Lyr.Add threads.

Quoting myself from the "If you're happy ..." thread:

The Duct Tape thread is labelled a BS thread, which in Mudcat parlance means a thread discussing something besides music, song and folklore. But with Mudcatters involved in the discussion, BS threads can become song threads; there are FOUR songs/poems so far contributed to that so-called BS thread.

And there is a poem based on Dr Seuss in the"BS: Iraqi War with apologies to Dr Seuss" thread which I don't think should have been labelled BS to start with as the initial contribution is a substantial poem.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 06:30 PM

Put me down as preferring the new arrangement.

Though it took me a while to notice it.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: toadfrog
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 10:35 PM

Hurray for the change. And if actual music threads could be sorted out from all the ones which are BS and not labeled as BS, that would be even better. Threads about birthdays, how to address audiences, how to get gigs and the like are no more musical than the political threads.

I do not understand how anyone could reasonablly object. Suppose Joe gets to decide what material is BS and what is not. So what? People who want to read the political stuff are free to do so. The right to free speech is not a right to prominent placement of one's statements. It made it hard, for those of us with little time, to find the musical threads.

And yes, McGrath, political threads were always in the minority. But they were also always right at the top, and interminably long. And threads that are actually about music are an even smaller minority.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 10:39 PM

Well said...LaughKat...As long as the pussy-farts stay in the lower regions...I will not venture there.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 10:43 PM

Damned Glad.... Max and Joe finally heard my plaintive cries in the wilderness....and came to their senses.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

A few more modifications and the MudCat could become everything I envisioned it could be.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 11:51 PM

"A few more modifications and the MudCat could become everything I envisioned it could be."

Greggie Baby, any vision that you may have of what the Mudcat could be would be totally repellent to over 99% of its members. Unless, that is, your vision includes the total absence of yourself.

Bruce


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 11:57 PM

Go easy Bruce.....Remember that Greggie is but one tiny member......which describes both his role here and his genitals.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: harpgirl
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 12:06 AM

...garg, sometimes your misogyny makes me really mad! Lay off the women, you dickhead! love, harpgrrl


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 10:43 AM

Well kat....thanks, but in fact I have never once resorted to "BS", not even one word of it. Perhaps a sylable of "BS" slipped by my steel trap editing mechanisim, but it was probably a "high end BS sylable."

It hardly matters though....I have so much ELSE to feel guilty about!

But......I really like the separation arrangement. I had a bad week a few days ago and didn't appreciate anything...but I'm feeling much more positive now, and can see the true beauty of the music at the top, and the marvelous discussions (at least the one on Baseball) down at the bottom.

Boy, would it ever be difficult to accomodate Toadfrog and split the music ones into worthwhile and 'sorta-BS'. I think it would result in tons of silly arguements. Might end up with someone relegating a thread to the BS pile simply because they weren't familiar with an artist's name. ...or not.

Cheers Joe and Pene

Rick


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: JennyO
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:05 AM

I still think, as I have mentioned before, that there should be a link to the mixed option, preferably at the top.

I have used it both ways, and it seems to depend on my mood which way I want to view it on any given day. One thing I have noticed, however, is that if I start off on mixed threads and then submit a post, I am returned to the split threads. Why is this?

Jenny


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:32 AM

JennyO, the "post page" probably redirects to the main page (threads.cfm) when it has done it's job.

There are workarounds to this. The Annexe for example offers 2 views although the one view, more in common with other systems such as the popular UBB one is probably never used.

After a post is made, I redirect to a small page, default.asp. It relies on a cookie bieng set. Here is the actual code I use:

  'this bit tries to set a cookie when "switch mode" is clicked
select case Request.QueryString("mode")
case "1"
Response.Cookies("mode") = 1
Response.Redirect("default1.asp")
case "2"
Response.Cookies("mode") = 2
Response.Redirect("default2.asp")
end select

'this bit checks the cookie setting and moves the user
select case Request.Cookies("mode")
case "2"
Response.Redirect("default2.asp")
case else
Response.Redirect("default1.asp")
end select

I've no doubt there are better solutions but this one works for us.

Jon


Line breaks added to pre-formatted text. --JoeClone


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 12:43 PM

I love this new system...it is like being at a party where some people are trying to sing, while others want to gossip, and having the talkers banished to another room..They CAN come in when they feel like music, and I CAN wander in there when I need a break and want to chat...it ain't far. And, like any song circle, small digressions from the music are tolerated, while longer, interminable debates are sent off to the back room.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Mudlark
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:32 PM

Nice simily, Bill and I agree completely, also with Jon's notion that putting the music threads at top gives them the respect they deserve from a music-oriented forum.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 08:55 PM

Hi, Jenny - Here's an idea - use this Mixed Format Link (click) to get to the mixed Forum Menu. If you have Microsoft Internet Explore, go to tools/internet opitions, and select the general tab. Then select "current" for your home page. Then you can easily get back to mixed format by just clicking on the "home" icon.
Jeff can do just about anything, so I'm sure he could design a system that would send you back to mixed format after posting, but I don't think there's enough of a market for him to do the work. It'll just cost you a couple of mouse clicks.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Padre
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 09:04 PM

Bill D - Like you, I enjoy the option of 'separate rooms' for music and chat. Reminds me of the old Getaways at Prince William Park.

Padre


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Pene Azul
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:42 PM

If you're logged in, you can now set "Mix Music & Non-music" as your default. Click "Membership" in the banner to set this option.

Jeff


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 05:34 AM

Fantastic! From being in a position a few months ago where I was highly critical of certain issues here, I now find myself in a position where I want to offer praise. Great job Jeff.

Jon


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 08:37 AM

Elegant solution. Thanks Jeff.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: MMario
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 08:38 AM

Thanks Jeff


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 01:27 PM

Brilliant solution, there are some people on the present BS threads that sedom , if ever, contribute to a music thread.                                                             The only music they like to hear is the rattle of a war-drum. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 04:55 PM

"...I will not venture there."

That a promise?

Myself, I quite like singing the odd song in the talkie bar, and having the odd discussion in the music bar. But the bouncers haven't ejected me yet.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 05:06 PM

Ah, GoyleGarg, you keep declaring your love for me and who knows what may come of it?!

Rick, I was just sorta quoting you, darlin'...as I thought I'd read a couple of comments by you in BS threads saying you didn't feel guilty about being in BS threads now?*bg* No matter, glad you're feeling better.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 05:49 PM

Hi kat. You know I guess facial expressions are soooo important. I was completely joking both times. Funny, but I get my jokes all the time.

But...I know what ya mean.

So what's this about you and Gargoyle being an item? It's about time!

Cheers

Rick (all posts comprised of 78% humour)


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 06:09 PM

It was the deadpan expression that didn't give you away! Reminds me of my Uncle...unless you watched for a tiny twinkle, even a hint of a glimmer in his eye, one never quite knew until later that he'd been pulling one's leg.:-)

About time, eh? It has been a rather long time, hasn't it? I think this might really work.


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: lamarca
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 06:45 PM

I've been off the boards for a LOONNNGG time - came back to look at Jonathan's Obit and found the new arrangement. I think it's great!

I've gotten involved with another discussion board. There are several things I really like about it:

1. It's divided into different "rooms" divided by topic, each with its own listing of threads in that room. There's a General room where threads both on and off topic are started. There's a "Games" room where threads like the Mudcat Tavern, virtual stories, etc take place. There's a "Tech Help" room. There's a separate forum for Political Discussions, to prevent arguments starting on the main board. You get the idea.

2. There's a volunteer moderator for each room who only steps in if he or she gets personal messages complaining about a flame war starting, or a grossly inappropriate thread. The moderator can "close" the thread to further posts.

3. Each thread is labelled with the title, the nom-de-Web of the person who started it and how many posts it has - with a counter to show you how many new posts have been added since you last logged in (a feature for members only). This is great, as it lets me click on threads started by a friend, skip over the sixty zillion threads started by the same person, etc. if I so desire.

4. In each Room, you can set how far back you want to see the threads. For Rooms where there isn't a lot of posting, you can set it for 1 week; for the General Room set it for 24 hrs, etc.

I would visit Mudcat more often if there was a similar structure - a room for Lyric or Tune Requests, a room for gig and CD release announcements, a room for Games like the Tavern, a Social room (it sounds so much nicer than "BS") for non-music discussions among our social group, and a general Music room for chat about everything vaguely musical - song origins, neat parodies you've discovered or written, instrumental techniques, 12 step programs for instrumentoholics, musical activism re PELs, etc.

Barring that (and I know it would mean a hell of a lot of work for Max, Jeff, Joe and all the other hard-working folks who try to take care of this unruly kingdom), I really like the separation of BS. How does it work, though?    Is it totally dependent on the honor system - counting on the person who starts the thread to label it BS? Does someone transfer a thread that is started in the non-BS section inappropriately?


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 07:55 PM

I can take a stab at the last bit. I'd guess that there is a "tag" which we don't see. If a thread is started as "BS:", it gets set automatically, on starting the thread but otherwise it isn't set. The site admins can later change the setting of this "tag" if need arises.

In other words, it is initially an honour system but can be over-ridden at any time.

As for the rest, and I'll in no way argue about it being right for MC, the common approach is to have forums (or rooms) and categories on top of that. That way, you can say have a general approach, eg. music or subdivide music as well as divide into rooms with a moderator. How you choose to display is another matter, most go for the "room" aproach but perhaps the split view here is better for MC, personnally, I like it.

I'm feeling nervous here as I don't want to be thought of again as putting out rows or criticisms when I'm only trying to answer a question but if you are interested, try my search (here. Just put "Jon" in as a user name and play around with changing the "search in" list boxes (the second takes priority) before hitting "search" and you should get (thread wise) anything I posted, anything I posted musical or even find anything I posted on musical instruments.

Jon (only trying to share information and I think that bit illustrates at least part of a commonly used structure)


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Subject: RE: Separation of Music and B.S.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 08:02 AM

I just want to correct my "stab". I had a look and found in the create thread "view source"

SELECT NAME="ThreadCategoryID"
OPTION VALUE="1"
OPTION VALUE="2"Lyrics Request
OPTION VALUE="3"Lyrics Add
OPTION VALUE="4"Tune (melody) Request
OPTION VALUE="5"Tune (melody) Add
OPTION VALUE="6"Chords Request
OPTION VALUE="7"Song Origins
OPTION VALUE="8"Review
OPTION VALUE="9"Obituary
OPTION VALUE="0"BS / non-music
OPTION VALUE="14"Folklore
OPTION VALUE="13"Technology

I hadn't realised but each thread now has a "threadcategoryID" that can be changed. Mudcat under the surface is really a multi-forum system now!

Jon


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