BS: Black gun crime in the UK?

Subject: Black gun crime in the UK?
From: GUEST,Red Eye
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 06:34 AM

Has she got a point??

Ms Dynamite has accused the Government of failing to tackle gun violence in Britain's black communities.

She said the comments of culture minister Kim Howells - who blamed the rise on gun crime on 'gangsta rap' - showed the Government has no real understanding of the problem.

Ms Dynamite was one of a group of black artists launching the Stop The Violence Campaign, which aims to turn black youths in inner-city areas away from gun violence.

Dr Howells provoked an outcry from the music industry when he blamed "macho idiot rappers" such as So Solid Crew for "glorifying gun culture and violence."

Ms Dynamite, real name Niomi McLean-Daley, said she would have liked to have worked with the Government to tackle the problem, but didn't believe they cared what she had to say.

The 21-year-old said: "People can make out they are interested in a problem, but then they go and make comments like they have about our music. It shows no one's listening, no one's understanding and no one cares."

She said poverty and lack of education were the root cause of gun violence, but that the Government had failed to address this.

She said: "In terms of gun violence and gun crime it's obvious - the problem is poverty. The Government have to give young people education and jobs, then none of this would be occurring."

In another criticism of Dr Howells, she added: "Young people have to live in crazy circumstances. Someone who doesn't have to live in those circumstances, and doesn't know what we have to go through, can't judge."

Subject: RE: Black gun crime in the UK?
From: The Walrus
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 07:09 AM

But if it's poverty that is leading black youth into gun crime, why is it that so many high profile (and high income) performers (like several members of the aforementioned "So Solid Crew") are being arrested and convicted for posession of illegal firearms?
Handguns (except those manufactured before 1919) are prohibited weapons in the UK, so they don't come cheap - how does that tie in with poverty?

Face it, guns (or in many cases replica guns) have become a fashion item. Now why? (let's say the 'Gangsta rap' image hasn't helped).

Walrus

Subject: RE: Black gun crime in the UK?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 08:11 AM

The Government does have an initiative that's been running for about 2 years. It's called Operation Trident and is specifically aimed at "black-on-black" gun crime.

From what I read in the local papers the guns aren't being used so much in muggings and robberies as in internal gang feuds. In other words the guns aren't being used to get money but in the struggle for control of the gangs.

Subject: RE: Black gun crime in the UK?
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 08:32 AM

When I saw that thread title, I thought we were in for a really horrible thread. Reading your comments though Mr.Red, I realise you are addressing an issue. No doubt some of our American friends would have been equally alarmed by the title - which to my mind is not a good one.
For the sake of our American (and other) friends, I should point out that the comments come against the backdrop of a tragedy earlier in the year. Two teenage (as it happened black) girls were shot dead in what appeared to be the crossfire between rival gangs.
Miss Dynamite certainly voices concerns which I share. I am sure you are as concerned about the fate of the (as it happened black) victims and indeed the whole community.
My oh my though, you really should be more careful with your thread title - and I think this should also have a BS prefix.

Subject: RE: Black gun crime in the UK?
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 08:36 AM

I'm staying out of this...the title seems to me provocative.

Subject: RE: Black gun crime in the UK?
From: GUEST,Red Eye
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 08:44 AM

Black gun crime in the UK? It is an issue facing all of us who live within an inner city. A market town close by to me has had three gun related incidents in the last nine months. One death, a face blown off and a shot in someones back. The shootings are apparenty drug related and involved black gang members. I think Ms Dynamites comments are weak when it comes to the reason people carry guns, don't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Black gun crime in the UK?
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 08:58 AM

I should not have mentioned the estimable Mr. Red here earlier. I apologise for that. I was, of course, referring to Red Eye.

Subject: RE: BS: Black gun crime in the UK?
From: GUEST,jh
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 08:59 AM

I would have thought that the title was describing a fact of life. It seems to me that certain individuals would prefer to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that this problem doesn't exist. There are times when you have to state the facts as they are. Have we really got to the point where PC has become so rediculous that when a description of a suspect in a crime is given, appearance can only be stated if they are "white" .. I am becoming increasingly irritated that there can be "black communities", "black music" etc. etc. I find all this racist and very offensive. If there were things desribed as "white communities, music or anything else there would be uproar.

Subject: RE: BS: Black gun crime in the UK?
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 10:25 AM

There are a lot of factors, too many to discuss, but I think it's a safe bet to say that poverty is one of the greatest contributors. Regardless of race and cultural disparities, the poorer demographic almost always engages in more violent crime. I mean this not as a criticism of the poor, but rather as a statement that reducing poverty and unemployment would be a trememdous step to reducing violent crime, whether with guns, knives, or halfbricks.

Subject: RE: BS: Black gun crime in the UK?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 05:16 AM

Recently my home area, Eltham SE9, has been described as "The most racist area in Britain" - partly because the tragic Stephen Lawrence mureder. A local paper described 4 (white on black) racist incidents. In the same issue of the paper, however, there were reports of at least six muggings and other incidents (one including serious injuries to an elderly lady) which were black on white. While it could be argued that these were for economic gain rather than predudice reasons, It seems strange that these were not counted as racial incidents.

There have been councils recently which have discouraged the flying of the national flag in case it offended ethnic minorities and I have even come up against local authorities who preferred to push "Folk Events" which had little or none of our own tradition in them. Surely this "Political Correctness" or "Positive Discrimination" is fuelling the very racist movements which it is supposed to oppose.

Subject: RE: BS: Black gun crime in the UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 07:00 AM

She said: "In terms of gun violence and gun crime it's obvious - the problem is poverty"

Sorry Miss D. We have always had poverty. Somtimes worse than we have now. The increase in gun crime cannot be ascribed to this. Not sure what we can put it down to but there is one thing I am certain of. Crime is crime. If there were no guns it would be committed in some other way. If it were not the black community it would be someone else.

What we do need to do is to stop labeling and clouding the issue. Stopping ALL crime should be the aim. Albeit an impossible one:-(

Cheers

Dave the Gnome