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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:45 PM Care to respond to my question, Jim? or just keep repeating "God Bless America"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:47 PM What country do you belong to Greg F.? I honestly don't know - |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Stilly River Sage Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:50 PM We live in a global village. Anything anyone says anywhere can be picked up and spread around the world in a nanosecond. It doesn't matter who Maines addressed her thoughts to. Now that the Dixie Chicks are not on the radio so much, we probably have to suffer through zillions of plays of Greenwood's sappy American Hero song. Now that one I'll turn off every time. Much better to have Maine's edge and intellect than Greenwood's kneejerk patriotism. I'm not planning to have the television on much during Dubya's War. I find all of the hashed and rehashed news that comes across during war causes a depression that I'd just as soon avoid. I certainly understand the old line "Wake me when the war's over," though that isn't my point. We'll all understand full-well what is going on without absorbing every ounce of coverage the networks can wring out of it. I'll wait quietly, and start reading closely again when the international charges of war crimes are filed against George W. Bush. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:53 PM I don't 'belong' to any country, oh great and powerful anonymous one, (whichever one you happen to be)- I'm a citizen of the world. Not that it does, or should, make any difference. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:00 PM While we're on the subject of selective trashing of presidents, how come Clinton wasn't fit to be Commander in Chief because he got a draft deferment, whereas Bush is a worthy holder of the office though was AWOL for a year from the National Guard in time of war? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:19 PM So... lemme see, the Dixie Chicks and other musicians like to get a little mouthy and argumentative (even about things they don't actually know a lot about)? MUSICIANS!??? With each other??? I'm SHOCKED! ;~) ~S~ (whowillbecookieless for a bit) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:33 PM SRS- So Maine has intellect and edge but Greenwood has kneejerk patriotism, eh? Why? Because you agree with her but disagree with him? Beccy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Pseudolus Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:36 PM Touche Beccy...... :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Jack the Sailor Date: 19 Mar 03 - 05:05 PM My point is calling her "unpatriotic" for criticizing the president is stupid and hypocritical. Calling her a coward is just mean and uncalled for. Doug I was complaining about people who are smug while they are stupidly contridicting themselves. I don't think I was being smug or hypocritical. I equally defend your right to say stupid things about Clinton as I defends Maines' right to stupidly (as it turned out) criticize Bush. Speaking of saying dumb things about Clinton. Clinton & Saddam "And I, for one, would be interested in your elaborating on your remarks about how Mr. Clinton was dealing with Saddam. It seems to me he did his best to avoid dealing with him the eight years he was in office. If he had, perhaps we wouldn't be facing the situation we are now." Perhaps if the people weren't so distracted by thousands of "conservatives yelling "wag the dog" then the country might have had the political will to deal with Saddam in 1998. Yes people do have the right to boycott the Dixie chicks. Apparantly they also have the right to call them cowards. That doesn't mean they are right. Your opinion Frank, coward is a dastardly word. I'm not surprised at the reaction. I would have expected the same self righteous prigs that so gleefully attacked Clinton to attack her for doing the same to their guy. She probably gave her countrymen more credit than than. I certainly am willing to stand by my contention that saying those things in England is no less cowardly than in the USA, which you well know was the point of my "sarcastic" comment. You Frank, also know damned well that courage didn't enter into her decision one way or the other, especially if, as you allege, she didn't think beore she spoke. The knife was pointed in the correct direction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Troll Date: 19 Mar 03 - 05:08 PM Greg, if you are a "citizen of the world" as you claim, why is it that I never see you criticize any country but America and no President but Bush? I would think that with the whole world as your bailiwick you would be able to find some one or someplace else on whom to vent your spleen. If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a few questions about this "world citizenship" thing. Who issues your drivers license and what entity collects your taxes: I assume that you do pay taxes. Do you use a passport when you travel or do you just have ID that all countries accept? Who issues that ID? And what currency do you use to pay for your "world citizen" taxes etc. Or are they all free? Please answer in detail. I'm sure that there are many Mudcatters who would take advantage of this if they only knew how. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Jack the Sailor Date: 19 Mar 03 - 05:11 PM Beccy - PM Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:33 PM SRS- So Maine has intellect and edge but Greenwood has kneejerk patriotism, eh? Why? Because you agree with her but disagree with him? Beccy HAHA have you HEARD their music? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 19 Mar 03 - 05:52 PM JTS- I actually own the Dixie Chicks' "Wide Open Spaces" and a compilation with several of Greenwood's songs on them. So, I guess the answer is yes- I have heard their stuff. What's your point? Beccy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 06:11 PM Jesus, Troll, don't be such an unsufferable prig. We've 'duelled' before, and I know you're not an idiot. Why act like one? If you've never seen me "criticize any country but America and no President but Bush?" you either haven't been looking or you really need to get yourself to an ophthalmologist while there may still be a chance to save what's left of your eyesight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Bobert Date: 19 Mar 03 - 06:22 PM Well danged! I hope someone has moved the Bill of Rights into a bomb proof shelter. Now it looks like if you are a performer you can't say a danged thing that isn't part of the company line? Hmmmmmm, didn't we go thru this about 50 years ago? This is less about repsect for the presidency than our 1st Ammendment rights. Man, wherre's ol' Tom Jefferson when we need him the most. Seems like there are a lot of folks who could use a remedial course in democracy in the joint these days. Yep, J the S, we certainly aren't short in hypocricy these days. All the loud mouths during the 90's want everyone who doesn't want the US to use military solutions as it centerpiece of its foriegn policy to just, ahhhh, shut up! Hmmmmm? Looking more and more like Osaom can declare victory! Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: jimmyt Date: 19 Mar 03 - 06:32 PM Greg, not to sidestep your question the answer is that If we had a leader with those propensities as you mentioned in Hitler and Stalin, we would excersize our right to VOTE HIM OUT OF OFFICE!!! Of course you, being a citizen of the world, may not know about our silly old antiquated democracy here in the USA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 06:42 PM Greg, not to sidestep your question... But you just did..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Stilly River Sage Date: 19 Mar 03 - 06:53 PM Yes, Beccy, that's exactly what I mean. The arguments make just as much sense. (But I really do hate that Greenwood song) Your partisian argument is more profuse on this thread, but no more convincing than anyone else's. It's all politics, and you're not going to change anyone's mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: jimmyt Date: 19 Mar 03 - 07:06 PM Greg, I hope you have a nice day. I will not continue trying to explain or defend my opinions in this thread. THe amazing thing to me is that people like you who profess to be so all knowing and liberally enlightened, are the least tolerant people about any opinions different from theirs. Again. Good luck to you, Have a wonderful life, and I hope one day you can find some happiness. Sorry if that doesn't sound like a conservative in your mind, but therein lies the paradox |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: kendall Date: 19 Mar 03 - 07:46 PM Doug, if you republicans didn't have Clinton to keep dragging out, would you be able to defend Bush at all? Also, who put Saddam in charge? It sure as hell wasn't Clinton. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 09:35 PM Thanks for the kind words, Jim, really. No need to get huffy. But you still haven't addressed the question. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: jimmyt Date: 19 Mar 03 - 10:29 PM Tell me what the damn question is, Greg I thought I answered your stupid question pretty clearly, but then again, maybe not clearly enough for you! The answer is that these leaders would not be left in power in the USA as we have the ability to vote assholes like this out of office!!!!Any other stupid questions? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Jeri Date: 19 Mar 03 - 10:50 PM I'm not entirely sure we voted Bush in in the first place. That's quibbling though - enough people voted for him. In any case, Hitler was very, very popular in Germany. People have a tendency to want to believe in charismatic leaders and I don't think many are willing to see anything bad, let alone look for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Stilly River Sage Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:15 PM No, "enough" didn't vote for him, more voted for Gore. But the Supremes got into the picture when Gore's folks made the mistake of thinking there was a hurry and they should ask to recount only a few counties in Florida. No one will ever make THAT mistake again! If they'd asked to count the entire state, the Supremes wouldn't have been in a position to vote 5:4 to appoint Bush as president. . . Oh, I guess enough people (if you look at only 9 people who count) did vote for him. Never mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST,Ely Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:19 PM I'm from Texas, too, and I've ALWAYS been ashamed of Bush. Both Bushes. I still can't believe we ended up with him as President. I think he's a bully and I think he's out of touch. All my most right-wing, fundamentalist-religious, Texan-provincial coworkers think war is a bad idea. Yes, I think that it was cheap for her to wait until she got to England to say it, but she can still say it. I liked Clinton. I think he's a total creep but he was a good president (lots of good presidents were creeps, and lots of nice guys were probably lousy presidents--anyone who thinks they're voting for morals is clueless). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Troll Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:20 PM Greg, The cleaners called. Your sense of humor has been cleaned and repaired and is ready for pickup. troll and not a moment too soon, I might add. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:26 PM Citizen of the World. Wow - how underwhelming. So you would be a universal no opinion personage. Not sure it does matter - and I'm not great nor wise - but I am an American and hope that my country does the best it can. And the president is my representative to the world. Whether I voted for him or not. In an elected position the majority rules. And please leave your semantical diatribes out of that statement please - When the Ditsy Twits made their comment I am certain they thought they were following popular opinion. That's what people like them do. They entertain and sell themselves. So it follows that when they, selling a product, make a mistake it can be costly. There are many ways they could have made the statement they did. They chose wrong. And they get to not be paid for it. People like me call their local radio stations and tell them not to play their music or we'll turn them off. Products should not be allowed an opinion. I've heard their music, liked some of it, but as an American trying to support the will of my country I will not support any entertainer who does not agree with my political outlook. And for the most part those same entertainer's comments border on the inane. "Don't people die in wars?" Duh - Well enough for you - have a lovely evening. Hey jimmyt - don't bait on the guy - he doesn't have a clue - |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: DougR Date: 20 Mar 03 - 01:17 AM Ely: you think Clinton was a "total creep, but was a good president." What did he do that causes you to believe he was a good president? I'm really interested. Kevin: Clinton happens to be the last poor president we had. That's why I criticize him. He was a great PR president, but I think history will show he was one of the worst presidents in U. S. history. He had the potential to be among the best, but he screwed up (pun not intended). Why? IMO, because he cared more about himself than he did his country. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Jack the Sailor Date: 20 Mar 03 - 01:26 AM "What did he do that causes you to believe he was a good president? I'm really interested." Doug, you are not interested at all. You just want to argue. Which would be pointless since you seem to think that Bush is a good president. You are quite unlikey to be swayed by statistics or logic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: SarahC Date: 20 Mar 03 - 02:03 AM So much for western democracy and free speech! * You can say what you like as long as it's what the establishment wants to hear! * You can vote on a motion as long as you say yes but if we think you'll say no, then we won't bother getting a vote! * We are acting on the courage of our convictions, despite your protests, because we are right. Anyone got the distinct impression that there isn't any democracy in UK or USA either!!!!! Debate and opposing views aren't support for Saddam - they are democracy at work. It is not unpatriotic to hold an opposing view - it is the exercising of a RIGHT to hold an opposing view. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 20 Mar 03 - 08:53 AM Troll- Sense of humor? Fer chrissakes, you find war, death and the antics of these dickheads humorous? I don't find anything the BuShite Junta is up to amusing in any way, and its really rather pitiful and pretty revealing that you DO. Jim- the question was about 'respect' and 'respecting the office' and is quite clearly stated, above. Try actually reading it this time before framing a reply. "Guest" whichever- "a universal no opinion personage"? Jesus. WHO doesn't have a clue?- piss off. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Blues=Life Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:09 AM As always, I hate to introduce logic into a perfectly good emotional argument, but I just can't help myself. 1. Maines made her statement re: Bush overseas, apparently in reaction to a great deal of Anti-American sentiment. Free speech, no problem here. 2. She almost immediately apologized for her remarks, due in a large measure to the backlash from her primary audience. Therefore, she either: a) did not mean what she originally said, but let her mouth run away from her in response to her immediate environment, making her an unthinking idiot who has no true opinion of her own. b)meant her original statement, but was too cowardly to stick to her moral views once she realized how much her pocketbook was going to hurt. Idiot or Coward. Them's the choices, folks. (And don't present the good old "mispoke" argument, cuz that would be choice A). I have no problem with a celeb using their popularity to espouse their point of view, as long as they stick to it. I thought Richard Gere was extremely couragous at the Concert for New York when he spoke of responding to 9-11 with peace, not with violence. There was immediate negative feedback, which he verbally recognized, but he didn't back down. Freedom of speech has consequences, especially if you espouse an unpopular point of view to your source of income. Now back to vitriol and mud-slinging. Peace, Blues |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:13 AM Logic??? Can you spell "False Dichotomy"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:29 AM Ah Greg F - did you get a little bent by my comment? Shucky darn man - truth hurt? Ha ha ha ha ha - |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Blues=Life Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:30 AM Yes, I can. If you have a third choice, go for it. :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Lepus Rex Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:47 AM I'd like to point out that both Travis Tritt and Toby Keith sport completely unironic mullets. What more is there to say? ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Rick Fielding Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:11 AM "completely unironic mullets" !!!!! My laugh for today. Ya gotta have at least one, you know! Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Pseudolus Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:29 AM Jack, Perhaps reading the posts would be a good idea. I never called her a coward. I said the act was cowardly, there is a huge difference. No one's perfect, you don't have to be a coward to commit a cowardly act. It's my opinion that the act was cowardly. You think my opinion is mean...so be it. And by the way, I never said that courage had anything to do with her statements so I'm not sure where you were going with your last sentence. Stupidity might have, courage no. Let's face it, careers in the music business live or die with with people's opinion. To not know that the reaction to such a statement could be bad was just plain stupid, or perhaps she just doesn't care. But the reaction WAS bad. Look, I support her right to say what she felt, I support her right to say it where she did, but I also have a right to have an opinion about it....it was cowardly and stupid. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:44 AM What's the difference between an "unironic mullet" and an "ironic" one? Beccy P.S. Isn't a mullet just a mullet??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST,k Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:10 AM Fighting on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics: Even if you win you're still retarded. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Bagpuss Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:14 AM k - I really don't know what to say. I can't believe you just said that! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:24 AM Bagpuss- For once, I'm going to agree with you. Yikes. Beccy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Lepus Rex Date: 20 Mar 03 - 05:23 PM An ironic mullet is something you might see on an annoying hipster kid at a Yeah Yeah Yeahs concert. An unironic muller is something you might see on a 35-year-old shirtless mechanic at a Quiet Riot reunion concert. Hope that clear it up. ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST,joe Date: 20 Mar 03 - 05:30 PM hmm, if i read her apology right, she didn't actually express a different opinion than that contained in her first statement. 'embarrassing' is closer to both situations, his & hers, seeing that he is not really the president & the DC's (along w/ the rest of 'country' use far too much compression on their final mixes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Jack the Sailor Date: 20 Mar 03 - 05:57 PM Frank I still don't agree with cowardly. But I suspect that she didn't think thing through before she spoke. Idiot is harsh and certainly not accurate. I don't understand condemning someone for speaking their mind but I do agree that it wasn't wise for her to do it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Stilly River Sage Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:35 PM I think it was very wise. The question is, was it prudent? From a financial standpoint, perhaps not. I'm sorry someone managed to cow her into making an apology. That took the thunder from the statement that is going to cost her either way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: mousethief Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:16 PM I think she should have stuck to her guns, but hey it's her paycheck not mine. I did go out and buy their latest CD yesterday to show my support for Free Speech, something I hold very near and dear. Why is distance a measure of courage? If she said it in Seattle is that less courageous than if she said it in Chicago? Is it twice as courageous to say it 500 miles from DC as 1000 miles? She was among brits and wanted to let them know Americans aren't all moronic idiots. Unfortunately a great number of us went and proved her wrong immediately thereafter. I'm ashamed to be from the same PLANET as Dubya. Alex |
