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Req: Polem dym / Veshchaya Sud'ba ( russian song)

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GUEST,radojka.biscan@hnb.hr 20 Mar 03 - 08:42 AM
Sorcha 20 Mar 03 - 09:26 AM
Wolfgang 20 Mar 03 - 09:30 AM
GUEST,radojka.biscan@hnb.hr 20 Mar 03 - 09:55 AM
Sorcha 20 Mar 03 - 10:04 AM
Sorcha 20 Mar 03 - 10:06 AM
GUEST,radojka.biscan@hnb.hr 20 Mar 03 - 10:12 AM
Wolfgang 20 Mar 03 - 10:13 AM
Wolfgang 20 Mar 03 - 10:24 AM
Wolfgang 20 Mar 03 - 10:27 AM
GUEST,radojka.biscan@hnb.hr 21 Mar 03 - 08:05 AM
GUEST 21 Mar 03 - 08:11 AM
Sorcha 21 Mar 03 - 10:12 AM
masato sakurai 21 Mar 03 - 10:13 AM
Joe Offer 21 Mar 03 - 11:48 AM
Jim Dixon 22 Mar 03 - 10:37 PM
Haruo 22 Mar 03 - 11:38 PM
Haruo 22 Mar 03 - 11:49 PM
Artful Codger 31 Oct 10 - 02:02 AM
GUEST,Grishka 31 Oct 10 - 08:00 AM
Artful Codger 31 Oct 10 - 03:03 PM
Crowhugger 31 Oct 10 - 04:28 PM
GUEST,Grishka 31 Oct 10 - 05:43 PM
Artful Codger 31 Oct 10 - 08:49 PM
GUEST,Grishka 01 Nov 10 - 07:00 AM
GUEST,Grishka 01 Nov 10 - 07:07 PM
Joe Offer 02 Nov 10 - 01:10 AM
GUEST,Grishka 02 Nov 10 - 05:44 AM
GUEST,Grishka 02 Nov 10 - 05:55 AM
GUEST,Grishka 02 Nov 10 - 07:08 AM
GUEST,Grishka 02 Nov 10 - 07:48 AM
Joe Offer 02 Nov 10 - 02:26 PM
Artful Codger 02 Nov 10 - 04:14 PM
GUEST,Grishka 02 Nov 10 - 04:15 PM
Joe Offer 02 Nov 10 - 04:29 PM
GUEST,Grishka 02 Nov 10 - 07:14 PM
Artful Codger 02 Nov 10 - 09:10 PM
GUEST,Jeanne Bogacho 31 May 17 - 09:15 PM
GUEST,Grishka 01 Jun 17 - 06:03 AM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: GUEST,radojka.biscan@hnb.hr
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 08:42 AM

Hallo! Is anybody out there to send me lyrics of beautiful russian
       song "Polem dym" ( in cyrrilic ! ).
       Please help me!


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Subject: ADD: VEShAYa SUD'BA( russian folk? song)
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:26 AM

Could it possibly be this one??

VEShAYa SUD'BA


Sled zamershii. Veter. Filin.
Vetvi. Yama. Zapah gnili.
S hlipom chavknulo boloto:
- Kto ty? Kto ty?
Ni otveta, ni priveta...
- Gde ty? Gde ty?

Zaplut'al, ne zn'ayu gd'e...' |Am Am9 Am Am6
Chud'o chudn'oe glyad'el:' |Dm7 Dm6 Dm7 Dm6
Po hol'odnoi,' po vod'e, |E E7 E
V gr'yaznom rubish'e' |E7 Am E+5
Cherez r'eku, n'apryam'ik' |Am Am9 Am Am6
Brel, kak p'osuh'u, star'ik' - |Dm7 Dm6 Dm7 Dm6
To li v pr'oshlom' ego l'ik, |E E7 E
To li v budush'em...''' |E7 Am Am9 Am E+5

Pozam'erzsh'aya mezh'a,' |Am Am9 Am Am6
A met'eli' vse kr'uzhat...' |Dm7 Dm6 Dm7 Dm6
Ya glaz'ami' provozh'al, |E E7 E
Sl'yshal serdca st'uk.' |E7 Am E+5
Odin'oka 'i gorb'a, |Am Am9 Am
Ne mo'ya li shl'a sud'b'a? |Gm A7 Dm
Eh, sprosit' b'y... Da gub'a |Dm7 E
'Onemela vdr'ug...''' |E7 Am Am9 Am Am6

P'olem, polem, polem, |Am
Belym, b'elym polem dym. |Dm
V'olos byl chernee sm'oli - |E E7
Stal sed'ym.' |Am E7

P'olem, polem, polem, |Am
Belym, b'elym polem dym. |Dm
V'olos byl chernee sm'oli - |E E7
Stal sed'ym.''' |Am Am9 Am E+5

A star'ik vse sh'el, kak s'on,' |Am Am9 Am Am6
Po por'oshe' bosik'om,' |Dm7 Dm6 Dm7 Dm6
To li vd'al' za g'oriz'ont, |E E7 E
T'o li v glub'' zemli...' |E7 Am E+5
I temn'ela' vysot'a, |Am Am9 Am
I snezh'ink'i, pet' ust'av, |Gm A7 Dm
Na ego lozh'ilis' st'an, |Dm7 E
D'a ne tayal'i...' |E7 Am G7

Vdrug v zven'yashei' tishin'e' |Cm Cm6 Cm Cm6
Obern'ulsya on ko mne, |Fm
I mur'ashki po spine |G7
Ledyanoi voln'oi - ' |Cm G7
Na men'ya smotr'el... i sp'al... |Cm Cm6 Cm
- Starche, kt'o ty? - zakrich'al, |C7 Fm
A starik zah'ohot'al, |Fm/E G7
Sginuv s glaz dol'oi.' |Cm G7

P'olem, polem, polem, |Cm
Belym, b'elym polem dym. |Fm
V'olos byl chernee smoli - |G7
Stal sed'ym.' |Cm A7

Ne pov'eril' by glaz'am,' |Dm Dm9 Dm Dm9
Otpis'al by vs'e slez'am,' |Gm7 Gm6 Gm7 Gm6
Mozhet, vs'e, chto bylo tam, |A7
Pomer'eshilos'...' |Dm A7
No vot v z'erkal'e, druz''ya, |Dm Dm9 Dm
Vdrug eg'o uv'idel 'ya. |Cdim7/F# D7 Gm
Vidno, vstrecha' ta mo'ya |Gm7 A7
Vse zhe v'eshaya.' |Dm A7

P'olem, polem, polem, |Dm
Belym, b'elym polem dym. |Cm
V'olos byl chernee smoli - |A7
Stal sed'ym.' |Dm A7

P'olem, polem, polem, |Dm
Belym, b'elym polem dym. |Cm
V'olos byl chernee smoli - |A7
Stal sed'ym. |Dm


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:30 AM

And now in Kyrillic please (grin)

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: GUEST,radojka.biscan@hnb.hr
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:55 AM

I think it is this song and THANKS, now does somebody has cyrrilic-
version !?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:04 AM

Mudcat won't dislpay the Cryllic........but maybe I can find a clickie.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:06 AM

Nope, sorry. Google lists only 2 hits for this; neither Cryllic.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: GUEST,radojka.biscan@hnb.hr
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:12 AM

I can display cyrrilic ( I have many cyrrilic fonts ) !
Can you give me address where you`ve found lyrics ?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:13 AM

O.K., on the off chance:

Sorcha has copied the lyrics from a site from Aleksandr Rozenbaum. Here now is the homepage of a singer by that name including an e-mail address. If both persons are the same he might help you. The E-Mail is the second clickie from below:

Aleksandr Rozenbaum

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:24 AM

And perhaps have a look at this page

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:27 AM

A more direct link to the lyrics

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: GUEST,radojka.biscan@hnb.hr
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 08:05 AM

I am happy to say - I`ve found author Aleksandr Rozenbaum`s origi-nals, even with acords ( with a little help from my friends on
MUDCAT DISCUSSION FORUM !! )
Here is original cyrrilic text (if MUDCAT will display correctly):
      ÂÅÙÀß ÑÓÄÜÁÀ   

                Ñëåä çàì¸ðçøèé. Âåòåð. Ôèëèí.
                Âåòâè. ßìà. Çàïàõ ãíèëè.
                Ñ õëèïîì ÷àâêíóëî áîëîòî:
                - Êòî òû? Êòî òû?
                Íè îòâåòà, íè ïðèâåòà...
                - Ãäå òû?.. Ãäå òû?..

Çàïëóòàë, íå çíàþ ãäå...
×óäî ÷óäíîå ãëÿäåë:
Ïî õîëîäíîé, ïî âîäå,
   
 ãðÿçíîì ðóáèùå
×åðåç ðåêó, íàïðÿìèê
Áðåë, êàê ïîñóõó, ñòàðèê   -
Òî ëè â ïðîøëîì åãî ëèê,
Òî ëè â áóäóùåì...

Ïîçàì¸ðçøàÿ ìåæà,
À ìåòåëè âñ¸ êðóæàò...
ß ãëàçàìè ïðîâîæàë,
Ñëûøàë ñåðäöà ñòóê.
Îäèíîêà è ãîðáà,
Íå ìîÿ ëè øëà ñóäüáà?
Ýõ, ñïðîñèòü áû... Äà ãóáà
Îíåìåëà âäðóã...

Ïîëåì, ïîëåì, ïîëåì,
Áåëûì, áåëûì ïîëåì äûì.
       Âîëîñ áûë ÷åðíåå ñìîëè -
Ñòàë ñåäûì.

       Ïîëåì, ïîëåì, ïîëåì,
Áåëûì, áåëûì ïîëåì äûì.
Âîëîñ áûë ÷åðíåå ñìîëè -
Ñòàë ñåäûì.

À ñòàðèê âñ¸ ø¸ë, êàê ñîí,
Ïî ïîðîøå áîñèêîì,
Òî ëè âäàëü çà ãîðèçîíò,
Òî ëè â ãëóáü çåìëè...
È òåìíåëà âûñîòà,
È ñíåæèíêè, ïåòü óñòàâ,
Íà åãî ëîæèëèñü ñòàí,
Äà íå òàÿëè...

Âäðóã â çâåíÿùåé òèøèíå
Îáåðíóëñÿ îí êî ìíå,
È ìóðàøêè ïî ñïèíå
Ëåäÿíîé âîëíîé -
Íà ìåíÿ ñìîòðåë... è ñïàë...
- Ñòàð÷å, êòî òû? - çàêðè÷àë,
À ñòàðèê çàõîõîòàë,
Ñãèíóâ ñ ãëàç äîëîé.

Ïîëåì, ïîëåì, ïîëåì,
Áåëûì, áåëûì ïîëåì äûì.
Âîëîñ áûë ÷åðíåå ñìîëè -
Ñòàë ñåäûì.

Íå ïîâåðèë áû ãëàçàì,
Îòïèñàë áû âñ¸ ñëåçàì,
Ìîæåò, âñ¸, ÷òî áûëî òàì,
Ïîìåðåùèëîñü...
Íî âîò â çåðêàëå, äðóçüÿ,
Âäðóã åãî      óâèäåë ÿ.
Âèäíî, âñòðå÷à òà ìîÿ
Âñ¸ æå âåùàÿ.

Ïîëåì, ïîëåì, ïîëåì,
Áåëûì, áåëûì ïîëåì äûì.
Âîëîñ áûë ÷åðíåå ñìîëè -
Ñòàë ñåäûì.

Ïîëåì, ïîëåì, ïîëåì,
Áåëûì, áåëûì ïîëåì äûì.
Âîëîñ áûë ÷åðíåå ñìîëè -
Ñòàë ñåäûì.
                               ( Aëåêcaíäð Ðooçeíáaóì )

Here is address:
HTTP:/CCLIB.NSU.RU/CGI-BIN/ROZENBAUM/SONG.CGI
If you like russian poetry and music you`ll enjoy!

Thanks folks!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 08:11 AM

Sorry for the "cyrrilic text " !
Does MUDCAT display any cyrrlic font? It was ARIAL, I can try with
TIMES or COURIER perhaps!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 10:12 AM

No, don't bother. Mudcat will not display any Cryllic at all.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: masato sakurai
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 10:13 AM

Dozens of sites with the lyrics can be found via Google (Google search results):

Cyrillic text with chords

Cyrillic text with chords

Cyrillic text with chords

And I found an MP3 (Click here) on THIS PAGE (No. 3 is the song).

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 11:48 AM

I had to go to View/Encoding on my browser and select Cyrillic/Windows. Now the post from radojka looks right to me. At least I think it's right. I studied Greek, not Russian - but their alphabets are somewhat related.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 10:37 PM

Well, I've never seen so many creative ways to spell cyrrilic/Kyrillic/Cryllic/Cyrillic. It's helpful if you know that Cyrillic is named for Saint Cyril. But I suppose if you don't know how to spell "Cyril," you're out of luck.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: Haruo
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 11:38 PM

Joe's right; Mudcat will not automatically display a Cyrillic font, but if someone posts lyrics in a Cyrillic font and lets you know which one they used, you can probably tease your browser into displaying it correctly.

Just to see if this is correct, here is a simple Russian word (= "thanks!") in three common Cyrillic encodings (Windows, KOI8-R, and Unicode):

1: Ñïàñèáî! (Win)

2: óÐÁÓÉÂÏ! (KOI8-R)

3: Спасибо! (UTF-8)

Try your Encoding menu and see if any of these work for you.

Haruo
who has hopes for Unicode


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Subject: Unicode numerical aliases for Russian, Greek etc.
From: Haruo
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 11:49 PM

Interesting: even without trying my browser did the Unicode right. When I set it to Cyrillic (Win) then it does both the Windows and the Unicode versions right. But no matter what I do I can't seem to get my KOI8-R to work.

So it appears that the Unicode UTF-8 encoding is the best one to use if you want others to be able to read it here. Unfortunately, the only way I know to use it is to type out the numerical aliases of each letter, which means each character is seven characters long; usually what I do is first type ampersandpoundsignsemicolon, highlight it, Ctrl-X it, and then use Ctrl-V once for each letter in the text I'm typing, using ordinary English punctuation and spaces. Then I go back and fill in the four-digit number for each letter. Where do I find the four-digit numbers to use? On my website's Unicode page, which also has a bunch of other-language letters including the Greek alphabet.

This is not efficient, but it works, and I can use it from anywhere since my Unicode page is on the Web (as well as on my home computer, where I don't have Internet access).

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 02:02 AM

Mudelfs, the preceding message (from Sluccemnnub) is spam. Please remove it and this message, thanks.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 08:00 AM

Haruo, the source code of this page shows that your numbers 2 and 3 are both in HTML-Unicode. Therefore 2 will always fail and 3 should always be correct regardless of the coding assumed by the browser.

In other words: Number 3 is the best method. If for example you want to produce the output

Полем, полем, полем,
Белым, белым полем дым.
Волос был чернее смоли -
Стал седым

safely, you should enter something like

Полем, полем, полем,
Белым, белым полем дым.
Волос был чернее смоли -
Стал седым

The same applies to Czech, Polish, Chinese ...

I have a little program doing the transformation for me, programmed by a friend. I'm sure there's lots of such programs on the 'net, but if you don't find any, we might find a way to donate ours to the community.

Grishka (Гришка)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 03:03 PM

I've posted such a utility here twice--htmlesc. There are also online converters, if you don't mind cut-n-pasting twice.

There may have been a recent change to Mudcat: some text entered in the message entry box now gets converted automatically to the proper Unicode escapes--when you preview, you'll see the escapes in the edit box (though they show as the desired characters in the message preview). I've just tested this again, and it works for the most common European languages in Roman script (including Czech!) and for Greek, but not for Cyrillic. So it looks like all Cyrillic text still needs to be converted explicitly to Unicode escapes if you want to ensure others will see it properly. Note that unconverted text will preview properly to the posters, but still won't show properly to all users.

And to the pundit who claims there is only one proper spelling of Cyrillic: St. Cyril was a Greek monk, and his name in both Greek and Russian is spelled and pronounced with a K (kappa/ka = hard C sound); if anything, "Cyril" with a C, and a soft one at that, is a perverted spelling, even if it has become the standard English way to spell his name (and the alphabets derived from his Glagolitic script).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: Crowhugger
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 04:28 PM

Go figure. Just for fun I set Cyrillic encoding to KO18-R but it's the UTF-8 entry that converts nicely. One more reason to love Vista. Not.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 05:43 PM

Crowhugger: As I wrote, Haruo's input was transformed such that his entries 2 and 3 actually don't depend on the character encoding of the displaying browser. As AC pointed out, the Mudcat script tries to make sense of your input and is sometimes successful, sometimes not.

I should explain the notion of character encoding for HTML:

Character encoding in this context is the way your browser displays bytes from 128 to 255 found in a HTML page (the ones below 127 are fairly well normed). If you had a web page for yourself, you could specify in it the particular encoding you were using. Any letter not included in that particular coding list ("codepage") can only be obtained by the syntax

  &#number;
      or
  &#xhexcode;

In Mudcat pages, no codepage is specified at all. Your browser uses "any" one, but may allow you to change it (for the time being). This is of course only a makeshift solution. The correct idea is that the poster uses the above syntax for any character not contained in that well-normed set, in particular any letter not used in English.

Vista is innocent.

AC's tool should do the job alright (although I wonder why you enforce the mnemonic entities, AC: it is not required, blows up the tool, slows it down, and runs the risk that some browser may not know all of them). Could perhaps some elf upload a "jar" version on Mudcat, for every potential poster to download easily and use by double-click?

For the programmers of the Mudcat script: It may also be a good idea to specify an arbitrary but constant codepage in all Mudcat pages, so that the preview page may warn the poster who fails to encode properly.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 08:49 PM

I use the named entities because they were/are more universally supported, and they're still semi-readable/decipherable to humans--remember us? The Mudcat powers asserted that they were preferable, so when there were common named entities, I used them instead. My personal preference is for hex entities.

If you don't like the named entity translation, just trim down the translation table (though you should take care to retain translation for ampersands, angle brackets and quotes--you could substitute hex translations in the table for these.) Any character outside the ASCII range and not in the map is automatically translated into a hex escape.

The conversion issues have been discussed ad nauseum in other threads.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 07:00 AM

AC: Your incentive is highly appreciated as a service to us as readers. A tool like yours should be used by other posters, since I own one already, to my full satisfaction.

For want of "clickies" I could not follow the discussion hitherto. Unless it has led to a better result already, I suggest that The Mudcat Powers offer a ".jar" compilation for download, so that users need neither install the bulky JDK nor use a command line. Alternatively or additionally, a web service may be recommended. Easy guidelines should be issued and posters reminded of them if necessary.

Then we may enjoy foreign poetry in its original shape, or feed it into translation software, without our pitch-black (or brunette or blond) hair turning grey unnecessarily. Rozenbaum deserves our attention.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Polem dym ( russian folk? song)
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 07:07 PM

I found a good translation (mirrored here).

Note that the title of this song is Veshchaya Sud'ba (Вещая судьба, translating something like Premonition). Joe, please change the title of the thread accordingly.

Grishka (Russian only by a small fraction, not an expert)


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Subject: RE: Req: Polem dym / Veshchaya Sud'ba ( russian song)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 01:10 AM

Hi, Grishka -
I'll augment the thread title, leaving the original so it's easier for the requester to find it. The Cyrillic characters display just fine - if you go to View/encoding on your browser and set it to Cyrillic. Now, if some good soul would like to post this song in ampersand codes so it displays for everybody.....

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Req: Polem dym / Veshchaya Sud'ba ( russian song)
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 05:44 AM

Here we go. And Joe, please reconsider what ArtfulCodger and I wrote about minimizing the fuss in the future.

ВЕЩАЯ СУДЬБА
(Aлекcaндр Рoзeнбaум)


    След замёрзший. Ветер. Филин.
    Ветви. Яма. Запах гнили.
    С хлипом чавкнуло болото:
    - Кто ты? Кто ты?
    Ни ответа, ни привета...
    - Где ты?... Где ты?...

Заплутал, не знаю где...
Чудо чудное глядел:
По холодной, по воде,
В грязном рубище
Через реку, напрямик
Брёл, как посуху, старик -
То ли в прошлом его лик,
То ли в будущем...

Позамёрзшая межа,
А метели всё кружат...
Я глазами провожал,
Слышал сердца стук.
Одинока и горба,
Не моя ли шла судьба?
Эх, спросить бы... Да губа
Онемела вдруг...

        Chorus:
        Полем, полем, полем,
        Белым, белым полем дым.
        Волос был чернее смоли -
        Стал седым.

Волос был чернее смоли -
Стал седым.
А старик всё шёл, как сон,
По пороше босиком,
То ли вдаль за горизонт,
То ли в глубь земли...
И темнела высота,
И снежинки, петь устав,
На его ложились стан,
Да не таяли...

Вдруг в звенящей тишине
Обернулся он ко мне,
И мурашки по спине
Ледяной волной -
На меня смотрел... и спал...
- Старче, кто ты? - закричал,
А старик захохотал,
Сгинув с глаз долой.

        Chorus

Не поверил бы глазам,
Отписал бы всё слезам,
Может, всё, что было там,
Померещилось...
Но вот в зеркале, друзья,
Вдруг его увидел я.
Видно, встреча та моя
Всё же вещая.

        Chorus bis


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Subject: RE: Req: Polem dym / Veshchaya Sud'ba ( russian song)
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 05:55 AM

Note that the first six lines are not sung, they form a kind of prologue. (Google the Cyrillic song title to find an audio file.)

Also note that Radojka spells the artist's (yiddish) name "Roozenbaum", which might make for better phonetics in Russian, but is not the form chosen by himself.


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Subject: RE: Req: Polem dym / Veshchaya Sud'ba ( russian song)
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 07:08 AM

Of course, I copied the lyrics from an internet source which seemed to offer the most accurate spelling. Now I listened to the song and found that Rozenbaum repeats the first chorus completely, as in Radojka's rendering, rather than only the last two lines, as my source.


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Subject: RE: Req: Polem dym / Veshchaya Sud'ba ( russian song)
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 07:48 AM

Instead of Через реку, напрямик, Rozenbaum sings Через реку, через миг on that audio file, probably a lapse of memory, but producing 1,710 Google hits (vs. 2,540 for the authorized version). Also, as with many surrealistic songs, you can google any imaginable mondegreen successfully.


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Subject: RE: Req: Polem dym / Veshchaya Sud'ba ( russian song)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 02:26 PM

Grishka, what should be the content of the code-defining line in the page heading? If we included that line at the top of a message, would it work?
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Req: Polem dym / Veshchaya Sud'ba ( russian song)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 04:14 PM

Joe, it's difficult for us common users to encode Cyrillic in a title because of the length of the Cyrillic escapes required. If the length limitation were overridden, the title might still be truncated in the database or search indices--and likely in the middle of an escape sequence.

Searching for the title is complicated because most folks here would be using an English translation or transliteration. Several transliteration systems are in common use and there's usually a variety of possible translations (unless the song has a fairly standard set of English lyrics). If you encoded the title in Cyrillic, more Russian speakers would find it (the folks most likely to be interested in Cyrillic versions) but fewer English speakers. Any special characters in the titles are likely to confuse searches for English speakers--even embedding apostrophes for the soft sign might affect matches. Whether searches specified in Cyrillic would succeed might depend on whether the user was using the same raw encoding. In short, there's no good solution.

It's my understanding that encodings can only be specified in the first line of an HTML document; they can't be changed dynamically within the document (though an included file might be able to specify a different encoding.) In other words, the entire HTML page must use the same encoding. The only real solution is to convert from locale-specific encodings to Unicode escapes upon input. Specifying a page encoding of UTF-8 would allow the text to be encoded in a shorter native form, rather than in Unicode escapes, but it wouldn't solve the problems.


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Subject: RE: Req: Polem dym / Veshchaya Sud'ba ( russian song)
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 04:15 PM

Joe: Unfortunately no, to the best of my knowledge. I have read some of the threads where the matter is dealt with "ad nauseam", as AC puts it. Unfortunately I am not a real expert (neither for HTML nor for Russian chansons), but I think a codepage can only take effect in the HTML header, and only one per page. I think I have read that Haruo tried it out per-message before and you subsequently disabled the tag, which was not effective anyway.

To complicate the matter, there is more than one codepage used on computers of a single language such as Russian; I saw a Mudcat page on which two were used by different posters of Russian text.

If I understand your first question correctly, you ask me which codepage should become "Mudcat standard". Answer: any one, the advantage being that the preview should no longer depend on the settings of the poster's browser. "ISO-8859-1" may be a good idea.

Wikipedia has UTF-8, which is not a traditional codepage but a modern unicode concept solving the problem completely. However, it may leave some old browsers/OSes behind. If this is still an issue, Mudcat should dispense with unicode.

The problem actually lies in the interpretation of what comes from the posters' various browsers; if this were done safely, your script could convert the characters to entities (&...;), as it actually tries to do.

Anyway, it should be the posters' responsibility to convert their messages using a tool like AC's, whenever the preview fails to yield a perfect reproduction.

This is for what it's worth; please ask real experts, who might not read this thread.


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Subject: RE: Req: Polem dym / Veshchaya Sud'ba ( russian song)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 04:29 PM

My "edit" button allows me to add prohibited tags if there's a legitimate need. If there's an HTML tag we can ad to Cyrillic messages to make them legible, I would think that's a legitimate need and I'd be glad to add it.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Req: Polem dym / Veshchaya Sud'ba ( russian song)
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 07:14 PM

For this page, you can add a line

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset= Windows-1251" />

before the </head> end tag, to have Radojka's version displayed in the codepage she intended back in '03, equivalent to your browser's "Cyrillic/Windows". That is: you could have, because either you or some other elf charmed the beginning to false hex-entities. You can try to reverse this (in case the original is lost) by copying the current content, starting with ÂÅÙÀß, from the browser to the editor. Or ask me to post an exact reproduction of the original post in hex-entities.

Another popular Cyrillic codepage is obtained if you replace the token Windows-1251 by KOI8-R. If both are used in a single page, your method fails.

Anyway, I prefer the Cyrillic version of the lyrics I copied here in hex-entities, because it employs a more orthodox spelling which is vital for the use of translation software, without being any less "original" than Radojka's.

It's not easy to be a kind soul but not knowing precisely what others really want, let alone whether ones advice will be correct and useful. The more detailed you express your wishes, the more likely I can help.


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Subject: RE: Req: Polem dym / Veshchaya Sud'ba ( russian song)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 09:10 PM

I haven't converted and reposted Radojka's version because, as I understand it, the song is copyrighted, and I try not to violate copyrights.

At this point in time, any browser or OS so old it does not support Unicode, including the UTF-8 file encoding, has ceased to be a realistic concern. Unicode is the proper way to go.

Note that Unicode escapes (using only the 7-bit ASCII character subset) work with the vast majority of code pages and with all UTF file encodings. Don't confuse them with specific UTF encodings like UTF-8, which are more like codepage encodings, displaying properly only when the right encoding is detected or selected.

Note also that, when previewing, codepage-specific text will often show up to the poster exactly as expected, regardless of being improperly encoded for universal viewing. Forcing a specific standard encoding (like iso-latin-1) on both thread and preview pages should cause such errors to show up more consistently to the poster in preview. But most posters neglect to preview their messages, so errors would still occur often.


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Subject: RE: Req: Polem dym / Veshchaya Sud'ba ( russian song)
From: GUEST,Jeanne Bogacho
Date: 31 May 17 - 09:15 PM

Does anyone know a Russian song that phonetically is something like this:

Sar maya rositch ku sadilla
Sar maya budu polyevatch
Sar Maya budu ku sarbilya
Sar maya buds viekstraddatch

My father used to sing this to me...he was Russian, could speak it, but could not write. It is a haunting song, but beatiful.


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Subject: RE: Req: Polem dym / Veshchaya Sud'ba ( russian song)
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 01 Jun 17 - 06:03 AM

Could it be this one?


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