BS: Roses and Thistles

Subject: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: *daylia*
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:15 AM

Over the last few days, angry and upset about the situation with Iraq, I've made some anti-American comments on the Cat which I now regret. True or not, I've allowed myself to get caught up in the negativity that this issue produces and I don't like it. Changes are on the way!

If my comments hurt anyone unnecessarily, please accept my apology here and now. I only wish the very best for America and Americans, and for everyone else involved in this conflict.

I found this little story on the net last night, and it really helped me set my priorities straight again. I found it comforting and healing, and most conducive to regaining a measure of 'inner peace'. Even after watching the latest awful news! I'm posting it here in the hopes that someone else might find it helpful in coping with the current situation.

Roses and Thistles.

Enjoy, and peaceful 'gardening' to all ...

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: Beccy
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:23 AM

daylia- apology accepted. I enjoyed your link. I think it would behoove us all to remember that we can disagree without trying to hurt each other. I shall endeavour to be calmer in my subsequent posts.

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: GUEST,amergin
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:26 AM

why apologise? many of us yanks see the truth...nevermind the right wing fascists on the board...they are just a small minority.

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: jimmyt
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:30 AM

Daylia, Thanks! I needed to see this post this AM. I am so very tired of reading mean-spirited negative threads and posts to threads, that an effort to do or say anything positive is truly appreciated. I am in fact, frequently on the opposite side of many of you in these issues. I take pride in knowing that even if you and I disagree, I don't think you are stupid or evil. We just disagree on this issue. I have many friends in my country as well as Great Britain and other European countries who can agree to disagree without all the venom.

I do not think America is evil and I think although we do have a reputation for being a little over exuberant, We are by and large a good people. I feel the same about your country and its people. Any negative generalizations about nations or the people that live in them is at best inaccurate. Thanks again for the thread

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:47 AM

Beautiful story daylia, but one note: I like the weeds and thistles, too!**bg** No need to dump one for the other, to paraphrase Bill Staines...All god's flowers have a place in the garden!

stillluvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: *daylia*
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 12:25 PM

Beccy - I am endevouring likewise. Glad you liked the story!

Amergin - I stand by my apology, even though I still believe my remarks about US policy do express the truth. IMO there's already more than enough snipers in the world, most of 'em a lot better at it than I am anyway. Hate and rage just produce more of the same, and I've had enough of both for awhile ...

jimmyt - you're most welcome. And right on about the pointlessness of making generalizations!

kat - thanks for that! All flowers do indeed have a place in "god's garden"! I was just thinking about encircling my 'roses' in a ring of 'thistles' - to keep out unwanted rose-eaters! Of course, I'd make a secret pathway through the thick of those thistles, so peaceful sage-walking kittys could join me in my rose-garden if they like ... maybe a little catnip would be nice too ...

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: Mudlark
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 02:29 PM

And a good news story isn't amiss in these rough times either. The bill to allow drilling in the Arctic was defeated, which took not only all the democrats but several republicans as well...I thank each and every one!

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 02:40 PM

I saw that and it IS good news, Mudlark! Thanks!

daylia, I like that and the catnip would be most welcome!!:-)

katsagewalker:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: DougR
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 02:46 PM

Daylia: it was nice of you to post this thread. We all get a bit heated at times debating political subjects and your example of stepping aside and smelling the roses is a good one.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: *daylia*
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 08:39 AM

Mudlark I read about the ban on oil drilling in the Arctic last night. And that IS good news! And today is the first day of spring ... yahooo!!!!

Yeah Doug, if it weren't for the finer things of life there'd be not much point to life at all, eh?

Well, I've just finished tending the "thistles" I planted on Beccy's "support our troops" thread. Why? Because I stand by what I've said, just as I stand by my apology for perhaps overstating my point and inadvertently hurting people in the process. I also managed to tend those thistles without throwing around either profanity or attacking anyone personally.

I used the trusty Ann Landers method for deciding whether or not to say something - asked myself 3 questions about what I wanted to say:

Is it true? Yes, to the best of my knowledge!
Is it necessary? Yes, the truth must be known if badly-needed changes are ever to happen!
And is it kind? Yes, the truth hurts sometimes, but I presented it as kindly as I could while still doing justice to the horrific facts of the matter.

Thistles have an important place in the great scheme of things! Very protective indeed. So I'm still feel pretty rosy!

When I hold up a "mirror" so to speak, if people are insulted by the truth of what they see in it, then that's a reflection on them, not me or my mirror.

A makeover would seem to be in order, in that case. And Spring's a wonderful time for a makeover!

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 06:11 PM

But, as katlaughing said, thistles have a place as well. After all, the thistle is the national flower of Scotland.

I remember many years ago my father, whose ten years dead now, who was a keen gardener came to visit us and we were pottering around in the garden. And there was this enormous thistle with a great purple head, and he was going to cut it and then he spotted some indication on my part that I liked the look of it, so he went and found a plastic bag, and fixed it over the head so it'd still be there, but it wouldn't spread its seeds.

I've often thought it showed a rare sensitivity and tolerance on his part. We need more of that in the world, and here is a good place to practice it.

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 01:06 AM

I'd heard it was the national flower of Scotland because it alerted them of bare-footed enemies approaching. Ouch!

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: *daylia*
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 07:58 PM

Right on, Kevin. Thanks for the story ...

Kat, speaking of thistles being the national flower of Scotland, I just did a search for "songs about thistles" and look what I found!

I think some of you Cats will enjoy this "celebration of Scottish History and Celtic Mythology, featuring modern original as well as older traditional works, all told through folksong & poetry."

Haven't checked them all out yet, but I liked "Flowers O'The Forest."

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: Frankham
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 01:55 PM

Daylia and Beccy, I take much hope and comfort from your apologies and reconciliation. It makes me realize how much more civilizing some women's perspective on hot issues can become. Might be time for a woman president.

I don't think there's any person alive that really wants to see people killed and dying unless they are socially disturbed.

But the ability to agree to disagree is American to it's core in terms of the true values of our country. I for one don't agree with this war but I do respect the conscience of the American soldier who believes that he is doing the right thing. I also must acknowledge my own conscience and what I feel is right.

The name-calling, the accusations and the rigid position-taking are all just chaff from the wheat IMHO. What is important here is to bring the facts to light so that intelligent decisions can be made about them.

I think that in terms of demonstrations, I would like to see support for the people who have made their views felt out of their sincere convictions. I believe that the best arbiter is the round table rather than the city streets although sometimes this appears not to be possible. I believe you can't have peace and war at the same time so whenever the olive branch is passed, I consider it my duty to acknowledge it and compliment those who pass it.

Congratulations, Beccy and Dahlia for your apologies. Very healing!

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: *daylia*
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 09:49 PM

Frank, thank you so much for your comments and your support. It's hard to keep a level head in times like these - and when I read your words I felt even LESS "thistley" and "bristley". :)

I agree that "the best arbiter is the round table rather than the city streets". Demonstrations so often bring out the very worst in people, just as war does. But it does seem they are the only "voice" loud enough to be heard over "Big Brother", at least for a few moments, these days.

Funny, I was thinking just yesterday about what changes we might see if it was a woman in the White House, women who were in the positions of power worldwide right now. I think that in general women do tend toward compromise rather than violence as a solution to conflict. They are less likely to sanction the killing of the weak and innocent that war always entails, more likely to be guided by compassion rather than by adrenalin. Certainly less likely to be driven by testosterone!
(Not that I'm bashing testosterone - just it's excesses).

If memory serves, I believe that it was - and still is - the elder women who hold the power of decision in the governing Councils of the Mohawk and Iroquois (the Longhouse tradition). Would "Matriarchy" prove more peaceful than "Patriarchy"?

Hmmmmmmmm ... a few wise, loving grandmas holding the power of decision on the "War Councils" of the world might make all the difference indeed! And not to worry - wise loving grandmas can be feisty and protective indeed! Even roses have their thorns, eh ....

Well, I've convinced myself! Now, lets's see ... how can we make this happen???

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 10:38 PM

Well, we all seem to have reached the point of wanting to ease off on the mutual hostility at about the same time here. That's good. We must've just collectively reached overload, I guess...

After all, it's not like we don't know where people stand at this point. :-) No use beating a dead horse, is there?

I was at a birthday party last night for Bob A., the best fingerpicking guitarist I know (except for Rick Fielding). We played songs till 2 AM, and what a great time! A guy named Bill who coincidentally looked a lot like George Bush kept asking me to do Dylan songs from his youth...he loves that stuff. I was delighted to oblige. Nothing I appreciate more than someone who appreciates Dylan...

I hope we can all find some more stuff to feel good about in the days ahead, though trouble be around us still.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 11:45 PM

Why thank you Little Hawk.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 07:05 PM

After being sadled with Maggie Thatcher for all those years. people in our part of the world aren't so confident about sugestions such as "what changes we might see if it was a woman in the White House".

My impression is that absolute power, or even great power, corrupts women as easily as it does men. Which is a great pity.

When it comes to ordinary voters I suspect women may have the edge on humanity. I think it's rather a pity that, to make up for the delays in women getting the votes, we couldn't have had a few generations in which men didn't have the vote and couldn't get elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: *daylia*
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 02:43 PM

Well, I guess those roses always look rosier on the other side of the fence, Kevin. Thanks for the international perspective on lady rulers. Canada's one-and-only lady PM, Kim Campbell, wasn't in office long enough to make any waves or get corrupted by the power of it all I guess.

She was in office long enough for some boudoir shots, though ...

Wonder how Dubya would look in a negligee!

Kinda like this?

:)   daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: *daylia*
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 02:47 PM

This one's even cuter!

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: DougR
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 05:48 PM

Naw, I'd go for #1 I think, Daylia. Just goes to show, women are not good judges of female beauty. Besides, I think #1 looks as though she would also be a great conversationalist! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Roses and Thistles
From: *daylia*
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 09:26 PM

Doug - you're lookin at a gorgeous georgie-babe like that, and you're thinkin about whether or not s/he's a good conversationalist?!?

I'm truly impressed, dude! There's hope for the world yet!!

I thought #2 was a little more, well, demure. I like demure. And, I like her - oops, his - outfit better too. He's much "softer-looking" in pastels, imo.

Oh yeah, I forgot - guys usually try to avoid the "soft" thing though ...

;)    daylia