BS: New Car - which one is best?

Subject: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: RangerSteve
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 06:54 PM

My 1993 Jeep Wrangler has more things wrong with it than I have room to describe here and gets about the same mileage as a Navy destroyer. I'm getting a small car. My mechanic says to avoid Mitsubishis, because the parts are too expensive. I don't like what I've heard about Fords. I have 15,000 dlrs to play with. Something the size of a Honda Civic or Toyota Camry would be nice. Anyone have experiences with Kia's or Hyundai's? How about the PT Cruiser? How are Chevy and Dodge cars these days? Thanks for your help.

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 07:08 PM

Most of the new stuff is pretty reliable and a lot of the old manufacturer things aren't as true anymore. All of the American stuff is considerably improved. I still like Honda a lot. Look at Saturn too. Too many selections anymore and they are all pretty decent. I can find folks too, who will tell you that __________ are all crap and you should get __________. Fill in the blanks with anything you choose.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 07:28 PM

I've had considerable experience with Hyundai and Kia. Although they are considered low end, they are a good choice if your funds are limited. Honda and Toyota still head the list for quality.

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 08:11 PM

Yo, RS, keep away from Mitsubishi, Nissan and most American built small cars. Honda Accord and Toyota Camry are a tad over $15K but not that far over. Both are good. Stcik with 4 cyl. engines. They are more dependable. The Hyndai's are much improved and have a great warrenty but I'd still pick the Camry of Accord over a Hyndai.

I don't know how amny miles you drive a year, but the Subaru Forester, though not a 200K car is a pretty nifty little Sation Wagon, has four wheel drive, handles well and will give you 150K miles, but not the 200K miles of the Camry's and Accords.

Saturns don't hold up and don't hold their value worth a dang so I'd avoid them.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: bbc
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 08:19 PM

I vote for the Suzuki Aerio SX AWD. It is a little hatchback that thinks it's an SUV. Standard features range from 4-speed intermittent wipers to cruise controls to digital dash display to power everything. Comes w/ a ABS option. Has a smooth, quiet drive w/ very comfortable seats. Back seats fold flat & the car has lots of head & leg room. I just got one & am still discovering features that I love! It's 20" shorter than my Honda Accord wagon & 9" longer than my Honda Civic wagon was.

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: jimmyt
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 09:57 PM

I am a diehard Toyota person. I have a Toyota Avalon and a Tundra truck, all three of my children have toyota Camreys and this is the third Avalon I have had. I have never had a moment's problem with them   They are just getting broken in at 100,000 miles. You can buy a program car that has <18000 miles for under 15K. I couldn't recommend them more highly. By the way, I am not a car pewrson, they are just a way of getting arounf and have never felt any particular sentament about a vehicle until I started in this Toyota run

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 10:11 PM

I'll add my support to the Camrey recommendations. They're not only pleasant and quiet to drive but nothing ever really goes wrong with them. For a few bucks you can buy a limited term subscription to Consumer Reports Online where they have archives of all their studies and they track repiar experience with every make and model. This is a must-have resoursource for anyone looking to buy a car whether new or used.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 10:25 PM

If you can't get on the list for a Bugatti Royale, almost any Hispano-Suiza will do. Failing that, I suppose a Bently can do a workman-like job. And failing that one might as well walk.

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: NicoleC
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 11:21 PM

Hmmm. I can't say about repair costs for Mitsubishi's or Nissan's, since neither one I've owned for 100,000+ miles has ever needed a single repair. I'd cheerfully buy one of either brand again.

Both Fords I've owned have been pieces of junk from day 1. My VW was a fluke lemon; so I made 'em take it back and got a Honda Civic.

All in all, I'd recommend a Honda Civic HX. Reliable, comfortable, affordable, and the gas milage is awesome.

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 11:31 PM

The best car...is that which you can pay cash for.

Never buy on credit...even 0 percent interest. To buy on credit is to become an indentured servant for the term of the loan.

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: DougR
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 02:08 AM

Ranger Steve: after two or three years wrangling with the Green Party members here on the Mudcat, I can offer you some solid advice. Buy a bicycle.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 07:26 PM

Well danged, Dougie! What's the Green Party got to do with it. We drive cars, too.

What do you drive? Hunhhh?

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: NicoleC
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 09:13 PM

Irony: I was having a conversation with someone today, who in the morning told me he missed his Honda Civis. In the afternoon, he told me his Expedition got 12mpg on a good day. Two minutes later he started whining about how "they" need to do something about smog and air pollution.

*sigh*

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 09:22 PM

Nicole:

Normal! Every SUV'er in America has some reason why he or she *needs* the danged thing. Yeah, they complain about the "other folkss" who own SUV's, then get in the danged things and become Mister-Hyde-In-An-SUV.

Skinner would have a ball with this behavior,m except instead of Skinner's Box it would be an Expidition or Tahoe...

Iz stickin' with my '91 Camry, thank you. Hope to still be driving it in 20 years.

Maybe your friend could just buy a used civic and stick it in the back of the 12 mpg Expidition just for nastalgic sakes.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 11:27 AM

Just got a 2nd hand Honda Civic myself. 3 years old but only 10,000 on the clock! Dunno if the US range is the same as the European but mine is the 1.5is VTEC. Love it up to now. Goes like s&*t off a shovel when required but gets up to 40mpg when treated sensibly!

Good luck whatever you get!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: Grab
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 11:54 AM

Don't bother with anything that looks like an SUV, thinks it's an SUV or has any aspirations to being an SUV. Yeah, nice high driving position, but everything else is just lousy. Crap fuel consumption, more emissions, more road noise, more affected by side-winds, more dangerous to pedestrians in an accident (the front-end may as well be studded with knives), more dangerous to you in an accident (high CoG means they'll roll, and if they roll then the roof crushes and you die), more expensive parts, and very few of them can go further off-road than a gravel track anyway.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: GUEST,bbc at work
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 11:54 AM

If you can find the features you want in a Honda, I'd recommend it highly. I've had 2 Civic wagons & an Accord wagon. Both Civics ran over 100,000 miles & my Accord, over 200,000 miles. They have great air systems, brake well, & always started & ran reliably for me. The only reason I switched to a Suzuki was that I wanted a small hatchback w/ AWD & Honda is only putting AWD in their big monster cars now.

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 12:55 PM

A Toyota RAV4 -- a nice balance between carrying capacity and mPG. What people think they need is none of our business, really -- if you are complaining about SUVs because of their emissions, or their low MPG, then you should likewise aim your bitchin' at '58 T-birds, which woould be an orful shame. The 2WD, 4-cylinder manual transmission model probably gets 25 miles to the gallon and can be had for about 16K$ new.

A

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 02:04 PM

What car is the best really depends on what kind of driving you do--If you drive a lot, particularly to or for work, a Toyota Camry or Honda is great, comfortable, pleasant to drive, and reliable, but repairs, and parts are very expensive--they do keep their value well, though--If you like cars that go fast, handle well, and look cool, a VW Passat or Jetta is hard to beat--they requre a bit more repair and maintenance, and have the same repair/parts problem--

I like the pay cash idea a lot--but you need to stick to the sure things, Toyota or Honda--Nissan is a good used car, too(ignore Bobert, he drives a freaking Subaru!) because it has the same level of reliability as the other two, but repairs and parts are cheaper--also, resale values are lower--this means that you'll lose more if you buy a new car, but get more car for you money on a used one--

Also, if you are open to buying a used car, check out CarMax--their inspections and warrantees take a lot of the fear out of buying a used car--their huge inventory is on the web, too so you can pick model, year, color, etc and they'll actually get it to the CarMax nearest you--Prices are reasonable(good) but not negotiable(not so good)--

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: Grab
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 01:01 PM

Amos, RangerSteve is looking to trade down from a Wrangler and get a small car. Not much point trading down to something that's still a gas guzzler.

I do realise that there are times when an SUV is the right tool for the job. If you can only afford one car and a large part of your work/leisure time takes you over bumpy-but-not-extreme tracks, it's the right thing to have. If you want to go more seriously offroad then the Wrangler is a top choice, regardless of fuel consumption. But if your offroad activities are limited to parking on the kerb to drop your kids off at school, why bother?

I don't actually mind if people buy them because they like the look of them. As you say, if we were to ban that then the '58 T-bird would be out the window (and Caterham 7's, etc). I'm a great fan of kit-cars, so I'm a natural sympathiser on this.

What does get on my tits though is people who say "I bought it bcos it's safer/has more space/is good offroad/blah-blah". These SUV drivers have the credibility of a line-dancer in her high-heeled rhinestone boots saying, "Well I got these boots bcos they're real good for walking in the mountains"...

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: Amos
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 01:11 PM

I would hardly class a RAV4 as an SUV. Or a gas guzzler. It's a 4-cylinder Toyota, as efficient as they come in all-gasoline engines. If all he wants is MPG, of course, he'd do well getting a three-cylinder Geo.

A

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: RangerSteve
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 02:24 PM

THanks for all your tips. I'm trading down from the Jeep to something that doesn't have 4WD because I don't have the money this time, and I'm tired of being the one person who's expected to show up at work on snow days because of my 4WD. Let someone else do it. One of my co-workers has a Hyundai Accent which is smaller than anything I've ever owned, but it looks nice and he says it's comfortable and roomy enough (he weighs at least 300 lbs.). As for misophist's suggestions, I'd rather have an Aston Martin - James Bond had one, so they must be cool. Now he drives a Beemer - what a loser he's become.

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 03:29 PM

I'll just throw my voice in for Hondas; they're very reliable and the Civic is just a nice car all around, except for the lack of 4WD, which isn't a problem for you (not so fun in Minnesota, though). Nissans are fairly solid as well.

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 07:55 PM

Best new car is an old car. Run it as long as you possibly can. Think Cuban.

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: Troll
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 10:07 PM

Right on, Kevin. I drive a "73 Plymouth Duster. My wife, however, travels 50 miles per day to and from work and drives a 3 cylinder Geo. It's a nice little car, farily comfy and surprisingly roomy.
The PT Cruiser is basicaly a Dodge Neon with a cute body. They are somewhat underpowered with the standard 4 cylender enging although I understand that the turbo does pretty well. This is not from personal experience but from my mechanic.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: DougR
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 02:02 AM

I dunno. You guys make a pretty persuasive argument for your vehicles of choice, but I still think, for the sake of the environment, you should get a bicycle. Or a Camel! You might be able to pick up a Camel pretty cheap in a few weeks!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: KateG
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 06:27 PM

If you want to save money think used. The economics are unbeatable.

I'd check out 2-3 year old Hondas or Toyotas. Let someone with $ to kill eat the initial depreciation, and get one with about 25-30K miles, you'll have 7/8 of the useful (200K mile) life of the car for 2/3rd of the price. Camry's get top ratings for safety and reliabilty, plus they get good mileage and are comfy (if staid looking). Click & Clack and Consumers Report both give used Camry's top billing.

Used Hondas are also a good deal. When I was broke and commuting 50+ miles a day, I went through a series of Honda Civic hatchbacks. Paid $1,500 - $2,000 dollars cash for cars with c. 95K miles on the clock, invested another $500 in basic repairs (timing belt and water pump, tires, battery, tune up etc.) and drove them for another 50+K miles. My best one cost $1,400 with 97,000 miles on it and died 36 months later with 196,000 miles on the clock, having needed about $1,000 in non-routine maintenance. That's 100,000 miles for $2,400 plus gas, oil changes and other routine stuff that any car would need, new or used. Can't beat it.

I currently drive a Subaru Impreza wagon. It's smaller and zestier than my husband's big Outback. 4WD gets you through snow, low center of gravity makes handling a joy. Good gas mileage and no rollover wories, with plenty of room for my Rottweiler and instruments in the back. Bought as a three-year old with 27K miles for under 10,000.

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: Ely
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 09:10 PM

Of course, it depends on your taste/needs, but I second the vote for the Suzuki Aerio. I'm a believer in tall station wagons. My first car was a 1986 Nissan Stanza (the one with the sliding doors and no B pillar), which has been passed on now to a new owner but is still running like a charm and never ailed anything except a couple of cracked (due to age) wires and two worn-out alternators. Our all-time best was a 1983 Toyota Tercel wagon that we kept for 16 years; it had over 250,000 miles on it when we gave it to VOA and never stalled, hesitated, or was slow to start in its life.

I got a Pontiac Vibe last year; yes it's a dumb name, but I really like the car. Except for the body panels and seat padding, it's the same car as a Toyota Matrix (which is the RAV4's little sister). It's basically a Corolla hatchback. The seats fold down flat so I can get an 8-foot ladder into it (or sleep in it) if I have to, it's about the same length as my dad's 1974 VW bug so I can fit into any tight city parking space, it gets good gas mileage (30/35), is comfortable (upright seating position--my lower back gives me grief if I sit with my legs in fron of me for too long), and it doesn't feel quite as sluggish as a PT Cruiser.

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 09:12 PM

Toyota pickup truck with 22 RE engine. Handles great, a heavy duty little pusher, gets a bit better mpg for the gas, just try to kill it!

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 01:35 AM

Glad to see a pickup mentioned. Though mine isn't the most economical, I use it for a lot of stuff that a car just couldn't handle. I compensate for the so-so mileage (18-10 highway) by telecommuting at least a couple of days a week, and making every trip count by going once and making a loop or something, not by making frequent short trips.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 10:31 AM

Oops--that should have read "18-20" highway. Sometimes better if the wind is blowing the right direction.

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: Lyrical Lady
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 02:20 PM

My friend is a mechanic and he says the best cars are the ones that are easy to fix! He says the subarus and hondas are the best for maintence. He swears by the volkswagon rabbits, golf or jettas... very easy to get parts for... and best on the market for gas mileage. He services volvo (worst car for fixing), mercedes(completely computerized and very costly to fix), and subarus ( easy to fix but not the best warranty). He drives 400 miles to see me, and it costs him just over $24 (can). He drives a volkswagon rabbit (diesel). Hope some of this is useful info.

LL

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: NicoleC
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 10:45 PM

The newer VWs are all computerized, a bear to work on, and horribly expensive to maintain. Think $600-900 for your routine 40,000 service -- that's if nothing is broken or needs to be replaced. There's nothing like your car computer deciding something is broken (when it isn't), and helpfully disengaging the ignition, to put a kink in your morning commute. After it did this about 6 times I was wondering if I could manage to cause it to go up in flames without getting caught.

The old VWs were a piece of cake and dirt cheap to fix. I don't know when the changeover started happening, but since your friend is driving a car that was discontined in 1984, I suspect his doesn't have all the new bells and whistles :)

Subject: RE: BS: New Car - which one is best?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 11:02 PM

I had a 1967 VW Beetle. Best year they ever made! Used to do my own oil changes and tune ups, including checking the timing. I think I still have that timing light in a box out in the garage somewhere. . .

SRS