Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]


Who Defines 'Folk'????

Related threads:
What is a Folk Song? (230)
Popfolk? (19)
What isn't folk (88)
Still wondering what's folk these days? (145)
What makes a new song a folk song? (1710)
Does Folk Exist? (709)
Definition of folk song (137)
Here comes that bloody horse - again! (23)
What is a traditional singer? (136)
Is the 1954 definition, open to improvement? (105)
Folklore: Folk, 1954 definition? (133)
So what is *Traditional* Folk Music? (409)
'Folk.' OK...1954. What's 'country?' (17)
Folklore: Define English Trad Music (150)
What is Folk Music? This is... (120)
What is Zydeco? (74)
Traditional singer definition (360)
Is traditional song finished? (621)
1954 and All That - defining folk music (994)
BS: It ain't folk if ? (28)
No, really -- what IS NOT folk music? (176)
What defines a traditional song? (160) (closed)
Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished? (79)
How did Folk Song start? (57)
Traditional? (63)
Should folk songs be sung in folk clubs? (129)
What is The Tradition? (296) (closed)
What is Blues? (80)
What is filk? (47)
What makes it a Folk Song? (404)
Article in Guardian:folk songs & pop junk & racism (30)
Does any other music require a committee (152)
Folk Music Tradition, what is it? (29)
Trad Song (36)
What do you consider Folk? (113)
Definition of Acoustic Music (52)
definition of a ballad (197)
Threads on the meaning of Folk (106)
Does it matter what music is called? (451)
What IS Folk Music? (132)
It isn't 'Folk', but what is it we do? (169)
Giving Talk on Folk Music (24)
What is Skiffle? (22)
Folklore: Folk, Pop, Trad or what? (19)
Folklore: What are the Motives of the Re-definers? (124)
Folklore: What Is Folk? (60)
Is it really Folk? (105)
What is a kid's song? (51)
Folk Rush in Where Mudcat Fears To Go (10)
A new definition of Folk? (34)
What is Folk? IN SONG. (20)
New Input Into 'WHAT IS FOLK?' (7)
What Is More Insular Than Folk Music? (33)
What is Folk Rock? (39)
'What is folk?' and cultural differences (24)
What is a folk song, version 3.0 (32)
What is Muzak? (19)
What is a folk song? Version 2.0 (59)
FILK: what is it? (18)
What is a Folksinger? (51)
BS: What is folk music? (69) (closed)
What is improvisation ? (21)
What is a Grange Song? (26)


Stringsinger 12 Mar 19 - 02:25 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 11 Mar 19 - 05:28 PM
Jim Carroll 05 Mar 19 - 05:32 AM
GUEST 05 Mar 19 - 05:23 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Mar 19 - 03:59 AM
Andy7 04 Mar 19 - 06:29 PM
punkfolkrocker 03 Mar 19 - 01:07 PM
punkfolkrocker 03 Mar 19 - 12:58 PM
Iains 03 Mar 19 - 12:40 PM
punkfolkrocker 03 Mar 19 - 11:42 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Mar 19 - 02:30 AM
The Sandman 03 Mar 19 - 02:17 AM
Steve Gardham 02 Mar 19 - 04:03 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Mar 19 - 02:42 PM
Stringsinger 02 Mar 19 - 02:31 PM
punkfolkrocker 27 Feb 19 - 04:48 PM
Steve Gardham 27 Feb 19 - 02:39 PM
Snuffy 27 Feb 19 - 01:29 PM
GUEST 27 Feb 19 - 12:40 PM
punkfolkrocker 27 Feb 19 - 10:11 AM
Rain Dog 27 Feb 19 - 10:04 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Feb 19 - 09:59 AM
Rain Dog 27 Feb 19 - 09:39 AM
GUEST,Mark 27 Feb 19 - 09:34 AM
Rain Dog 27 Feb 19 - 09:32 AM
punkfolkrocker 27 Feb 19 - 09:04 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Feb 19 - 08:42 AM
punkfolkrocker 27 Feb 19 - 08:00 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Feb 19 - 03:36 AM
Iains 27 Feb 19 - 03:26 AM
punkfolkrocker 26 Feb 19 - 12:08 PM
Iains 26 Feb 19 - 11:04 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Feb 19 - 04:12 AM
The Sandman 26 Feb 19 - 03:34 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 23 Feb 19 - 05:50 AM
GUEST,Guest 23 Feb 19 - 04:44 AM
The Sandman 23 Feb 19 - 03:45 AM
John P 22 Feb 19 - 04:19 PM
Andy7 22 Feb 19 - 03:08 PM
The Sandman 22 Feb 19 - 02:29 PM
GUEST 22 Feb 19 - 01:42 PM
punkfolkrocker 22 Feb 19 - 09:11 AM
GUEST 22 Feb 19 - 09:00 AM
punkfolkrocker 22 Feb 19 - 08:19 AM
The Sandman 22 Feb 19 - 12:16 AM
GUEST,Observer 21 Feb 19 - 08:19 PM
Steve Gardham 21 Feb 19 - 04:55 PM
GUEST 21 Feb 19 - 04:18 PM
Steve Gardham 21 Feb 19 - 03:02 PM
punkfolkrocker 21 Feb 19 - 10:48 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 02:25 PM

For me it's experiential.

I may not immediately recognize it as people like Jim who has studied it for years can,
but when I hear it I'm moved and transported to a different space. I can sit and listen enraptured to a trad ballad through thirty verses.

I like opera, jazz, popular music, classical music and some rock but it ain't folk.

i believe that it comes from working class people who express it without the idea
of becoming show business performers.

I've sung folk songs for years but I don't consider myself a traditional folk music singer.

I believe that Horton Barker, Texas Gladden, Margaret Barry, Jeannie Robertson, Iron Head Baker, Vera Hall, Buell Kazee, and others of this genre are really folk singers.

Field hollers, lullabies, dirty songs, foc'sle ditties, blues shouts, local ballads, stories handed down in songs,protest songs, singing expressions coming out of every day lives not made for the concert stage. the recording industry, or TV.

Great classical music composers have been inspired by it, Villa-Lobos, Schubert, Beethoven, Stravinsky, Bartok, Koday, Katchaturian..the list goes on.

I had help in discovering this from Alan Lomax, Pete Seeger and more from Bess Lomax Hawes, Alan's sister.

I was fortunate enough to hear traditional folk singers live in an environment that wasn't show business oriented but in the field. Hearing it live is the best and recordings don't do it justice.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:28 PM

Producer-package-consumer.

You'll need all three to define any genre or style.

Jazz Age jazz was consumed for fun. Contemporary academic jazz is for liberal arts audits. Two entirely different consumers. Two very different forms of jazz.

Academics have all sorts of social, political, racial &c exclusions Jazz Age consumers were only too happy to ignore.

It applies to folk forms like calypso as well. If the Andrews Sisters or Harry Belafonte want to have a go at it, that's not a cultural issue, it's financial.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 05:32 AM

Me too
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 05:23 AM

I think Stringsinger got very close to what it's all about- communication


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 03:59 AM

Sorry about the repetition (and for spoiling the fun) - my argument, from a previous thread
Jim Carroll

Nobody can say with any certainty who made our folk songs - nobody knows who did and probably never will so we can only rely on what little we do know and common sense to even approach the question   
The suggestion that our folk songs, dealing with the real lives of real people, as they do, originated from the pens of city dwelling entertainers whose lives were as far from those depicted in the songs flies in the face of over a century's scholarship and research and in the face of logic.
The published collections of unsingable songs by bad poets - (HACKS) - who churned out their wares at a rate of knots indicate that they are the least likely to have made them - they had neither the experience to handle the subject matter nor the creative ability to pen the deathless pieces of social history that make up our folk song repertoire - Ashton, Hindley, Bagford Holloway and Black, Euing.... all fairly convincing proof, as far as I'm concerned, that they could not have made our folk songs.
        
The 19th century popular songmakers, represented in the mammoth 'Universal Songster' and the pastiche outpourings of Dibden, stand out as examples of poor and often extremely patonising (sometimes denigrating) representations of working peoples' lives, next to the insightful and sympathetic realities of the poaching and transportation songs, or the broken-token pieces describing the popular practice of exchanging 'gimmel rings', or the songs depicting the 'camp-following' women who accompanied men into battle.

Over a century of scholarship unswervingly attributed the making of these songs to the people whose lives and experiences they described
Child named them "popular" (belonging to the people) while at the same time writing off the commercial products that occasionally included the occasional folksong as "veritable dunghills"
Motherwell sharply warned against tampering with the people creations by "improving" and rewriting them   
Sharp went to great lengths to analyse their structure.
Up to comparatively recently, there has been no doubt as to who made our folk songs...
Topic Records, which dedicated its existence to making available folk songs, chose as the title of its monumental and ongoing set 'The Voice of the People', just as Lloyd, four decades earlier, entitle his 13 programme presentation for schools, 'The Songs of the People'
How could so many clever and experienced people have got it so wrong for so long?   

Pat Mackenzie and I dedicated thirty years of our lives to finding out what the remaining bearers of our 'folk songs' considered the songs they sang and how they compared them to 'The Other Songs" (Mike Yates's phrase) they also sang - apparently they got it wrong too.
Walter Pardon went to great lengths to describe the difference between his "old folk songs" and "them other old things" - his opinions were swept aside by giving everything he sang Roud numbers

I looked forward to Steve Roud's book with some anticipation, hoping it might correct some of the previous flaws in our understanding - in removing the uniqueness of our folk songs by lumping them in with the long rejected popular songs, the parlour ballads and the rest, Steve Roud's book has blurred the lines between many genres of song
Despite the fact that Roud's work is larger and far more widespread in its approach and gos into far greater detail, in my opinion it measures small next to Lloyd's book of the same name written all those years ago.
In my opinion, despite Bert's flaws and idiosyncrasies his 'Folk Song in England has a far greater understanding of the uniqueness of the genre than does the latest contender for the title .

What we learned by our field work, especially among the non-literate Travellers and the Irish singers who were still singing their songs socially up to the middle of the twentieth century was that the communities they came from produced instinctive song-makers who constantly reflected their experiences and emotions in verse whenever the occasion arose
A discussion going on at present on this forum concerning the Peterloo massacre clearly indicates that English workers were probably as prolific at songmaking.
We owe the survival of many of our greatest ballads to a cultural group who have yet to accept literacy as part of their lives – The Travellers   
      
Over the last decade or so there have been many claims that we no longer know what folk song is - little wonder, considering what has happened to the clubs.
Now, it seems that confusion has spread to the world of research.
For me, and many like me, what "folk" means has never been in dispute
Folk song is as researched and analysed as any other cultural form - there may have been disputes following the singer-songwriter phase inspired by the protest song-maker that once was, Bob Dylan,   as to what wasn't a folk song, in my experience, there has been little doubt as to what a folk song was
For me, the answer lies in the two terms "tradition and folk", often treated as separate entities but in fact two sides of the same coin - the "Folk" were the people who almost certainly made and remade the songs to suit their lives and record their personal experiences, "tradition" is the process they used to do so - I don't believe it ever gets more complicated than that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Andy7
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 06:29 PM

Please don't nominate me to carry out the divining, I'd probably turn up a heavy metal band for you all to enjoy.

I once took part in a divining session, led by an expert, at a green festival. Mine was the only stick in the whole group that didn't twitch once, from beginning to end of the 2-hour session.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 01:07 PM

..though, a cheap Chinese mass manfactured plastic stick
should be sufficient for Ed Sheeran and Mumford & Sons...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 12:58 PM

Depends if it's a wooden or metal stick...

..a folk rock divining rod might need batteries...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 12:40 PM

would that be traditional or contemporary?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 11:42 AM

Who Divines 'Folk'????

An expert blessed with mystical senses, who holds magical sticks in close proximity to singers and musicians.
If the stick twitches positively, it's folk...!!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 02:30 AM

Isn't it interesting that when questions become uncomfortable someone decides them to be "thread drift"
Never fails
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 02:17 AM

"Who defines Folk based on the same criterion as Ellington defining Jazz?"         .......the question suggests to me an international outlook , therefore one would have to look at many people at least one from every country


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 04:03 PM

I suggest some people go back and read the OP. This has been more thread-drift than thread.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 02:42 PM

"The time has come like democracy for people to reclaim it."
Wish I'd said all that String - my feelings exactly
"Do the folk police issue de fines?"
Probably as often as trolls come out from under their bridges
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 02:31 PM

Having thought about this question for a number of years I've come out with my definition. Folk music is accessible to people. That's why it reaches so many.
When it becomes esoteric or rarified it loses its meaning. It's generally a simple musical statement without being simplistic. It's unaffected. Academics have tried unsuccessfully to define it. Record companies have also. It is always redolent of where it came from, a cultural base. It may not be popular now but it will go on when all popular trends in music have disappeared. Why? Because we need it. It tells us who we are.

The time has come like democracy for people to reclaim it.

It defines itself.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 04:48 PM

Delirious
Delectable
Detainable
Detestable...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 02:39 PM

Do the folk police issue de fines?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Snuffy
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 01:29 PM

Deep Ends


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 12:40 PM

nice to read a bit of humor in a mudcat 'folk' discussion


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 10:11 AM

Destabilises
Denounces
Depilates...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Rain Dog
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 10:04 AM

Could have been frosted. I cannot remember which club I heard it in. I need to check with Nick Lowe.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 09:59 AM

Was that transparent or is it just a pane?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Rain Dog
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 09:39 AM

Ooops

Just noticed that defenestrates was mentioned just a few posts before. Of course the defenestrates that I mentioned was a later and more shattering version.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 09:34 AM

It's probably most traditional to Deflower.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Rain Dog
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 09:32 AM

Defenestrates


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 09:04 AM

Destroys.....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 08:42 AM

Denudes?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 08:00 AM

Describes
Divides
Delights
Denies
Descales
Depraves
DeLoreans...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 03:36 AM

Who...
Defines
Defiles
Defends
Defenestrates
Deforests
Defibrillates
Deforms
Defoliates
and Defrags
Folk?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 03:26 AM

How about who defends folk? The three offer scope for endless argument!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 12:08 PM

When we've eventually exhausted this thread...

We could always have a go at...

Who Defies 'Folk'???? and Who Defiles 'Folk'????...???


Yep, guess I'd have to nominate myself for both........


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Iains
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 11:04 AM

https://www.encyclopedia.com/literature-and-arts/performing-arts/music-popular-and-jazz/folk-music


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 04:12 AM

"Jim does, with increasing anger when challenged!"
Not me bro -
In contrast to those who have chosen to abuse and insult, I have done neither to anybody - feel free to show me wheer that has not been the case
I would love to claim the honour of having defined folk song, but that happened long before my time - the fact that people choose to ignore that fact says everything that needs to be said
"The People"
99.9% of the people neither know or care a toss about folk song - if their opinion counted folk song doesn't exist
Folk song is among the most carefully researched, documented and reported musical forms -those who don't know what it is don't want to know
Go buy a book or a thousand - it's all there
You don't even have to read a detaied description - you just flick through the massive eight volume' Greig Duncan Folk Song Collection, or search out massive Carpenter Folk Song Collection on line
Does anybody have an equivalent example to offer? - I won't hokld my breath !!
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 03:34 AM

The People


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 23 Feb 19 - 05:50 AM

jim who?- not me!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 23 Feb 19 - 04:44 AM

Who defines folk?
Jim does, with increasing anger when challenged!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Feb 19 - 03:45 AM

well andy 7, in my local village in ireland i could do just that if i wanted , which illusrates the difference culturally between ireland and england,neither would it be considered middle class.
this is because there is still a respect for trad music
   in fact last year myself and jim bainbridge did turn up in a rural pub in kent [we both knew the land lady[ but had not made any prior arrangement and we sat down and had a great session of songs and tunes, and that was in the uk.
it is more a question of picking the right place [ that means prior knowledge] layout [ preferably two bars and not shooshing people]., and how you do it.
however in PFRS CASE THE FAULT LAY WITH THE PUB OWNER OR MANAGER, in not clarifying what he wanted in the pub


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: John P
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 04:19 PM

There are a couple of discussions happening here.

Who defines folk? At my house, I do. At the vast majority of performances I've done, it is irrelevant. No one cares except for a few pedants.

Should bad singers get up and sing in public? God, no. Please learn your craft before taking it out in public, and please stop encouraging those who haven't. If you are never going to be good enough to perform, please don't perform. Just like me not flying an airplane or performing surgery.

I like that folk music is, more than other genres, participatory. I think it is important for non-performers to be able to take part. Camps, living room sessions, workshops, and the shower are all appropriate venues.

I spend a lot of time encouraging people to make music, and sitting with beginners and amateurs so they can experience playing music with and learning from others. Part of what I tell them is that if they want to go farther, they need to practice a lot, and have some way of evaluating their skills.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Andy7
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 03:08 PM

I think my right to free speech gives me the authority to march into any pub, at any time, start singing at the top of my voice, and tell all the other punters to shut up and listen.

Just off into the town centre to try out my theory ... should be a fun Friday night!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 02:29 PM

Sorry, what is middle class about wanting to sing songs in a conducive attitude. I repeat the fault lay with the publican, all he has to do is speak politely to both sides it is his pub ,not yours or the shoosing singers


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 01:42 PM

Jolly good. Carry on. Bung ho !


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 09:11 AM

GUEST - precisely, folkie condescension at it's finest...

thank you for agreeing and confirming my point...xxx


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 09:00 AM

Whatever, dear boy. Xx


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 08:19 AM

Sandman - yesterday I was in the mood for a moan about something that happened over 30 years ago..
..as best I could remember it...

so you chipping in now theorising exactly who's to blame is a bit pointless so long after the event...

f@ck knows who they were, who the bar manager was and what he was doing, and how many pints were sold that afternoon...

There's unfortunately insufficient evidence and witnesses [reliable or otherwise..] to satisfy public interest for a full invstigative enquiry...

To be honest, I'm not even certain now if it happened in the 1980s or 1990s...
as I'm sure many more pints were sunk later that afternoon and evening.....

Though I do believe such a stuck up supercilious middle class folkie mindset still prevails in UK folk culture to this day....

.. perhaps even more so....?????

..and that "casting pearls before swine" attitude sure don't help present a good welcoming inclusive image of trad folk
to the perception of the mass of ordiary modern music lovers...???


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 12:16 AM

PFR perhaps the fault lay with you, or perhaps the fault lay with the landlord, he could have made it clear what he preferred,
on the other hand those people may have been the majority in the bar,they may be spending more money than you they coyld have considered you arrogant little shits.
i think the fault lay with the pub owner, he only has to make it clear what he prefers


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 08:19 PM

Tonight a visit to my local "Folk Club".

Four hours of music, only two folk songs sung, the rest God knows what genre they belonged to, but all instantly forgettable - complete and utter self- pretentious dross. Now only one hour having left the place can I not recall or remember a single line of an lyric sung throughout the entire night.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 04:55 PM

Yes, arrogant shits can be found in most communities but it does have a greater tendency to follow the money.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 04:18 PM

Agreed ..... but the "middle class shits" do not have a monopoly on it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 03:02 PM

>>>>>It wsan't a folk session of any sort, they hadn't been boooked or invited,
but just strolled in and took over the bar like it was their god given right...<<<<<<

That is rude and arrogant however you look at it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Who Defines 'Folk'????
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 10:48 AM

I'm going off on a bit of a tangent which I'll call

"Who defines folk in the wider public perception..."

Essentially, my excuse for another moan about middle class folkie arrogance and their sense of superiority and entitlement..

Back in the late 1980s I went home from London for a few days to see family and old mates..

I met my mates for an afternoon pint in the small bar of the local Arts centre
which had been our second home since Youth Theatre in the 1970s..

We were enjoying catching up and joking about, when suddenly a small group of upper middle class hippy types at another table
suddenly stood telling us all to shoosh up..

Then a young woman took centre room and started singing long trad folk ballads..

granted she was pretty and had a lovely voice..

But me and my mates, slightly inebriated punky new wave blokes in our 20s,
were subjected to her family/friends giving us the stern evil eye
if we even looked like we were going to open our mouths to continue our abruptly interupted matey banter...

It wsan't a folk session of any sort, they hadn't been boooked or invited,
but just strolled in and took over the bar like it was their god given right...

Bloody stuck up middle class folkies..

Now me and some of my punky mates were actually also folk fans, despite our appearance,
but if we hadn't been
those selfish full of themselves middle class shits would not have converted us......


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 21 March 6:08 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.