Photos From Iraq

Subject: Photos From Iraq
From: GUEST,Hani
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 03:56 AM

Photos   from Iraq

I saw photos on T.V I hope pictures like this will spread around so that people will start thinking with their conscious instead of their greed.

I also heard that the Americans administration is afraid of such pictures being spread around and anti-war resentiment might rise again.


I'm fully aware that many innocent Iraqi civilians are being injured and killed by US bombs, and that's horrific.. honestly, thoughts like this plague me every day... I do not consider myself truly pro- or anti-war, but that does not make me indifferent

I would advise anyone in here especially young and sensitive members if you go to these sites, are aware you are going to see dead people.

http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/
http://www.almotmaiz.net/iraq_photos/iraq_photos.php?type=people.php
http://alsaha.fares.net/sahat?[e-mail]5ekDNt5L.14@.1dd3388f
http://www.aljazeera.net/index.htm
http://enews.ajeeb.com
http://palestinechronicle.com

Subject: RE: Photos From Iraq
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 11:53 AM

A story on NPR yesterday spoke of a family in California last week watching the Spanish language channel Telemundo. They saw the film of dead American soldiers being propped up for Iraqi cameras--and to their horror saw their son among the dead. These images should never be shown without ample warning, and should probably not be available at all unless one wants to work to see them. I glanced at one page of thumbnails--that's enough, just to know that the news is there if I choose to pursue it. Thanks for posting those, Hani.

SRS

Subject: RE: Photos From Iraq
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 12:01 PM

I don't know about that, SRS. One young person was quoted in the paper today as saying she didn't really realise how close to home the war is until she saw the name of her junior high school sweetheart on a wall of support display. Maybe if more people saw such things, they would oppose the war more and bring about an end which would bring our troops home. War is brutal. Why should it be sanitised?

kat

Subject: RE: Photos From Iraq
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 12:07 PM

I'm not suggesting sanitizing it, but surely his parents shouldn't have learned of his death by seeing his corpse treated like a trophy before the whole world? I'm simply saying don't put it in my face without some warning, just to get the ratings. This is all one big Realty Show for the networks, and I don't need to watch any of them to know how colossally stupid they are. Including this war.

SRS

Subject: RE: Photos From Iraq
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 01:10 PM

We have been told repeatedly that Saddam starved his people so that he could build numerous palaces. I have not seen ONE photo of Iraqis that indicates starvation. Before we got there, that is.

Maybe what we are really being told is that Saddam, in order to build numerous palaces, withholds funds from education, hospitals, the elderly, children, health care, construction projects, remedial environmental actions, environmentally sound cars and heating plants and experimental fuels...?

Why does that sound familiar?

Subject: RE: Photos From Iraq
From: JedMarum
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 06:13 PM

When the British soldiers drove the Iraqi irregulars out of the hospital they were using for a staging area for their military efforts (near Basra), they found not only the weapons and ammo the paras were using, they found the chemical protection suits and gas masks they intended to use - and today they found the shallow graves of four of the American POWS. All four had been tortured and mutilated by the valiant "Iraqi freedom fighters."

The photos of the the hospital's torture chamber, where the metal bed springs and car batteries had been used, were shown to the world press. Perhaps they should also have shown the mutilated bodies of the men and women killed by the Iraqis. Probably would help their case.

Subject: RE: Photos From Iraq
From: Sorcha
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 08:17 PM

The whole thing is sick (on both sides), and I am sick of hearing about it or looking at it. All I want to know is when it's over.

Subject: RE: Photos From Iraq
From: Troll
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 08:34 PM

Ebbie, about 60% of the people in Iraq were dependent upon the Oil-for Food program and just a few weeks ago, Tima Mag. detailed how Saddam was skimming money from that fund. Since 19991 he has built some 9 or 10 (I believe the # was) palaces in and around Baghdad.
No, the people of Iraq have not been starving but it's no thanks to their leader. Don't let your opposition to George Bush and the war blind you to the facts. It is my understanding that before the war started, water was cut off in Basra and that food was in very short supply. This gives the lie to the statement by the Iraqi Information Minister that the US had bombed a warehouse containing hundreds of tons of food for the people of the area.
If the Ieaqis ane not in favor of our being there, why have many risked their lives to escape Basra? Why are they being shot in the back by their own countrymen in the Fedayeen Saddam and other paramilitary group?

troll

Subject: RE: Photos From Iraq
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 08:45 PM

Thoughtful nightly coverage, and interviews with people who have been covering Iraq for a very long time, have been showing up on PBS' Charlie Rose Show, 11pm or 12am EST. And they don't talk so fast you want to scream after a minute. There are enough images there to get as much of a feel as we can from this distance, and there is some real thinking going on.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Photos From Iraq
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 10:09 PM

Troll-There's been fighting in Basra, no reliable news on who by. People flee from combat towards either side, whichever is closer. Better to be a prisoner than shot in the crossfire.

Subject: RE: Photos From Iraq
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 12:30 AM

Susan, I've been watching 'Charlie Rose' for some time now; I agree that it's a thoughtful, thought-provoking show with informed, articulate guests. Last week I was really struck with how taken aback, even dismayed, Rose was at what he was being told by several of the commentators. This was a night when a couple of Middle Eastern men were on. Did you get to see it?

troll and others, very few people I know, including Mudcatters, are holding a brief for Saddam Hussein. The facts of his history are there and the facts are ugly. HOWEVER. What you are saying is part of the problem. On the one hand, we have our government telling us- over and over- that Hussein is starving his people for the sake of his palaces and pleasure. What I'm saying - and you seem to concur- is that we have seen no evidence of starvation. These people look healthy, well rounded and active. There are pictures of terrified but healthy-looking children who look like they could be my neighbors. (I have one of them as 'wallpaper' on my computer even though I cannot bear to see her terror; it reminds me to pray for wisdom for our leaders and ourselves and peace at home and for the invaded and terrified abroad.)

But who is lying here? The demonization of our 'enemy' is perhaps a necessary step in the battle for people's minds but we must remain alert against that temptation. If we do NOT, we can become the same brutes that we despise.

Jed Marum, I have no doubt of your veracity, even though I have not yet seen a news story on that atrocity. The only point I would make in response is that cultures differ from place to place and from era to era. A few hundred years ago, torture and brutalization was common all over the world- think Spanish Inquisition, for one example.

None of us are so far removed from the impulses that make devils of us all that we can safely congratulate ourselves.

Subject: RE: Photos From Iraq
From: wysiwyg
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 02:55 PM

Ebbie, I did see that show, I had to turn it off though because the speakers started talking so fast and loud it was too much. I realize that the cadence of Arab speech is often like that, and I tried to hang in to hear their thoughts, but the regular press and indeed TV in general these days is so sped up I just can't take it. I'm not sure I agree with your characterization of Rose's reactions.... or disagree... I think he just feels all of it, and I do prefer people keep their connection to their heart even in these difficult times.

More and more I find myself watching news from the perspective of a witness, waiting to find out what I really think and feel, myself.... our culture (IMO) has such a tendency to think it can pre-know and pre-feel what has not occurred yet. I try to keep my feelings engaged moment to moment, but to let my opinions stay detached until I have processed those feelings and gained more information. Otherwise this would all be more than I can interact with.

I think people will burn out soon on how much coverage they can take in, on a daily basis, en masse.... I don't like knowing that our desire to know what is happening has been calculated into a marketing equation for how many commercials can be crammed into my head. My husband is a good model for me in this-- he spends the day DOING his life, and then catches about an hour of reportage at the end of it, but then he goes off to play guitar.

If all we can do as it unfolds moment by moment is pray, we can do that without knowing what has JUST happened, every minute of the day. (War is war is war.) One can remain in a general state of prayer over it as one goes about daily life.... what difference does it really make to live each minute of it in realtime, when you get down to it? I need to understand, not merely to know... and for me that means striving for a balance in how many times each day I will present my body for a carefully orchestrated assault on my adrenaline.

~Susan