BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 04:16 PM

I've got to tell you The Rock, behavior like that of you and your buddies certainly doesn't give me very much confidence in our troops overseas if you are representative of them in any way. I certainly hope you are not.

Steve. You have gone completely round the bend. You need some help. I suggest you get it soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST,The Rock...
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 04:15 PM

Big Mick, don't get me going dude. I am a combat vet, point blank.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST,The Rock...
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 04:13 PM

And I graduated in the hills of Kentucky, I'm not a Marine. I got no beef with any of you except the ass hats who while having the freedom to be stupid, they object to the fact that we have the perfect right to bring it to thier attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 04:09 PM

And we have definetly not just gottne home from any school...we long ago graduated school, most of us from the school of hard knocks.
And some from the Island and some form the West Coast...but all in the same gun club!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 04:09 PM

I see that you men are visiting us from this forum:

Marine Open Discussion

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 04:07 PM

Children, could we be civil? You are showing me that you are likely not combat vets at all, but rather a bunch of wannabe's. Norton, I have great respect for you, but if these are your "friends" would you please call them off? This type of discourse does nothing to further your cause. Lepus and Greg are obviously talking through their hats, and have not had any experience in that to which they speak.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST,The Rock
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:58 PM

Nice try artyboy, that may be a tactic you use, but in this case you can beleive this buddy. There can only be one Rock, one Alpha Male, and that would be me....line up ladies.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:56 PM

Carol, my guess would be that it's all the same person, and he/she has just gotten home from middle school.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:54 PM

Hey Norton thanks for not threatening to beat me up. Its a start.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:50 PM

Steve, are these people your friends from the Marine Forum?

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST,The Rock.....
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:50 PM

Let's keep'em guessing for awhile........long live James Taylor!

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST,Colorado
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:48 PM

.....I certainly hope the musicians who would wish ill will on others on this forum are not from Colorado, as I DO happen to like some folk music.

Let me know if you are, so that I do not patronize those that have psychological issues.

I appreciate music, though I have little or no knowledge of the art.

Commute on my bicycle, wear Birkenstocks, recycle, etc. But a Marine, to the bone.

I know what I like, but I do not pass judgement, or wish I'll will to those that I don't understand.

'Work for Avon'? Maybe a few of us would care to identify our professional endeavors, not that it should matter...................

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST,The Rock
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:37 PM

Beleive me you little pussy, you wouldn't want none of this. Now, tell where your women are before I bitch slap the shit out of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:35 PM

My, my, my. Devil Hound is standing on the Rock and yelling at King Rabbit. These guys are probably working for Avon.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:34 PM

Hey Teufelhunden, we took the Baghdad Aiport today. Hooah!

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST,GuitarPlayer116
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:34 PM

Stop being such a little girl Lepus Rex.

It's no wonder you play such crap music.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:33 PM

Norton1 these people are laughable.
Have any of you tre hugging, peace loving fraks even had the experience of being in a third world country? Let alone growing up in one?

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST,Marinefromhell
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:30 PM

What a bunch of wussyboys on this thread. Norton1 told me there were holier than thou igno's here. Christ on a Crutch, Lupussy hex, Hope you sleep well tonight--hope you get enough momma tit too.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST,Guest, Teufelhunden0311
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:28 PM

Greetings Rock and Norton

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST,Guest, Teufelhunden0311
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:26 PM

Lepus, Lepus, Lepus.....
I just have to jump in on this one.......your ignorance is unprecedented. Your arrogance unjustified.
Your lack of patriotism revolting.
And your nickname completely laughable.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST,The Rock......
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:21 PM

Lupus Rex, you don't know what your talking about and you obviously have no operational knoweldge of the military. You keep you delusional ideas about the military. It would be folly to try and educate someone who does not wish to learn. I just thank God every single day that their are still enough people in the USA to get the job done while slackers like you bitch and whine, drink beer, and go to your important jobs at 7-11 every day, or go to some terrorist supporting college to get a daily dose of America hating 101. Lupus Rex, I spit on you face you ass wipe!

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST,Kegler300
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:21 PM

Lepus Rex and Greg F - you two are friggin idiots! Liberal halfwitted scumbags that don't have a clue! Does your mommy know you two are playing with her computer? Idiots...

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:12 PM

Reasoned protest is an excellent idea, and as applicable to the "anti-war" protesters who stand outside the gate of our local Air Force Base and yell "murderer" to the familes of deployed servicemen and women as it is to those who would interfere with lawful dissent.

You'll get no disagreement from me on that point, artbrooks. And you won't ever see me condoning that sort of behavior on the part of "anti-war" protesters, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:06 PM

This from our little thug Lepus -

"If you ever want real violence, boy, come to me."

Yep - skin heads are really bad - I'm a quivering boy - just a quivering - you and greg have me really worried here - couple of bottom feeders that should have been aborted early in the process.

Sorry about the turn JtS (puky retort to the kids BTW) but I don't think another thread will start up here - too much lumping to get much of anything sorted out.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:02 PM

Reasoned protest is an excellent idea, and as applicable to the "anti-war" protesters who stand outside the gate of our local Air Force Base and yell "murderer" to the familes of deployed servicemen and women as it is to those who would interfere with lawful dissent.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 02:51 PM

Troll, Did you see "Black Hawk Down" One of the Delta force guy tells a young Ranger that Once the fighting starts politics goes out the window. You are fighting for the guy next to you. I don't think what I have said could possibly make a marine forget that. The equation changes when you and your buddies are relying on one another for their lives.

Carol is right about one thing. Deamonizing a third the people the kid is supposed to be protecting doesn't help any. The strongest "anti protestor" rhetoric, seems to come from middle aged men. Men feel the need to attack, they can't get at Bin Laden so they build up fantasies in their mind about the protesters being agents of the enemy and they therefor. These men get immense satisfaction from fighting with the protestors. That behavior is just as bad for the young men as the anti war protests. We are all be much better off with civil discussion, like the discussion we are now having in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 02:01 PM

As necessary as that sort of training and fighting mentality may be, it is equally necessary for people of conscience to stand up to their government when they percieve it to be doing something wrong. As others have pointed out, the people who protested the Vietnam War helped bring that war to an end. Even some of the top people responsible for that war now agree that that war was wrong.

So the reality of war protesters is something those brave young people fighting overseas are just going to have to learn to live with. I'm sure they are up to the challenge.

I think that when people over here start flinging a lot of angry sounding rhetoric at the people who oppose the war, they aren't helping the young people overseas one little bit. All they are doing is further poisoning the environment that those young people will be coming home to. I think they would be helping those young people a lot more if they would use a less vitriolic way of trying to make their points. The bigger the chasm between people here at home, the more the returing service people will suffer when they get back.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 11:50 AM

a certain amount of indoctrination and
discipline is necessary. You cannot hold committee meetings in a firefight

Of course it is, and of course you can't. Absolutely no disagreement from me. But if indeed the result is that they can only conclude one of two things. One, the protesters are anti-American, or, two, they are cowards then something is obviously amiss with their brainwashing err, training.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Troll
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 11:28 AM

I never meant to suggest that they are "brainwashed" but if anyone choses to interpret it that way, so be it. I will say that I give a lot more credence in matters of this kind to the opinions of those who actually have some military (not necessarily combat) experience and not just their ideas are more likely to agree with mine.
It is simply that it is not easy to explain military training to someone who has never experienced it.
Do we have any ex DIs or Boot Pushers out there who would like to make a stab?
Greg, I never suggested "brainwashing them into imbecility" but a certain amount of indoctrination and discipline is necessary. You cannot hold committee meetings in a firefight. I think the Russians tried something of the sort under Lenin with the Political Commissars and quickly gave it up. I could be wrong tho. It's been many years since I read any Soviet history.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 11:10 AM

I doubt very much if brainwashed soldiers are in fact more effective soldiers. My impression is that this is how some of the most effective fighting units in the world see things as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: TIA
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 09:15 AM

Troll, I think I understand and agree with (sort of) your point. You said "These young Marines are taught love of Corps and Country above all else. It HAS to be done this way. They cannot question their orders or the reasons behind them..." I understand that.
But, I hear people using that thought as the first step down a very slippery slope:

1) Marines are conditioned to not question orders.

2) therefore, they cannot understand why civilians back home are questioning the orders,

3) therefore civilians who question the orders are undermining the Marines,

4) therefore the civilians questioning the orders are committing treason,

5) therefore, the only patriotic course of action is for everyone (civilian and military) to not question the orders or the reasons behind them.

I said it was a first step, but as I write this, I realize that I have heard many people in the last month take all 5 steps.

People are following these five steps to a scarey new USA that was never intended by our great founders.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 08:44 AM

Sorry, Troll, but no, it does not HAVE to be done that way. Man and women can be (and are!)trained up into an efficient fighting force without brainwashing them into imbecility. The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Troll
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 05:41 AM

My son is not in the military. He is a professional musician who is presently working in Japan. But there is very little difference between a 20-year-old-marine and a 20-year-old fiddle player when they feel let down and alone. I've had experience with both. There is, of course, the danger quotient, which is of some importance to someone older, but to kids, worries over the pregnant wife and worries over death or injury can be of nearly equal importance.
As I said, I've had a bit of experience in dealing with both.
These young Marines are taught love of Corps and Country above all else. It HAS to be done this way. They cannot question their orders or the reasons behind them because,if they do, they and -infinitely worse- their buddies may die. This, BTW, is common to all military organizations; it's just a little more developed in the Marines.
So, when they here of anti-war protests, they can only conclude one of two things. One, the protesters are anti-American, or, two, they are cowards.
With the certainty of youth, they can see no other options and their interactions with each other reinforce these beliefs. Any attempts to convince them otherwise are generally futile.
If you thinl this isn't so, try to convince the average 20-year-old that they shouldn't drink and drive, or smoke, or that a boom-box car with the gain all the way up will damage their hearing. You might as well save your breath.
The things I warned my daughter against at 20, she did anyway. At 30, she came to me and admitted that I had been right, but at 20, she didn't want to hear it.
The same thing applies with our young poet. He doesn't want to hear - and he will not hear- that there are two sides to the question.He only wants to hear that we think that he is doing the right thing and that he's an ok person. To say anything else does not instruct. It only alienates or worse, causes self-doubt at a time when he needs all the self-confidence he can muster.
Because he won't decide not to go. Right now, the Corps and his buddies are his world and he will die before he lets them down. This is what I was talking about and this is what I think you don't understand.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 04:26 AM

Troll, I am very pleased that you have stopped the rhetoric. You are very lucid and persuasive when you talk more openly. I hope you appreciate the following explaination. I don't think that we are as far apart as it may seem.

The kid is calling protestors cowards. Cowards who don't love their country. Its a very common attitudes among the arm chair war hawks who often frequent these forums. I'm not actively anti war. but if that kid wants to send a message that he thinks that people who protest the war are against him. I want to see him told that there are other issues and that those who are against the war are not against him.

The protestors against Viet Nam saved a lot of lives. The government didn't give the troops the support they needed and they didn't fight the war to win. They expected the South Vietnamese to rise up and defeat the North just as Cheney expected the shi'ites to defeat Saddam. The Ba'ath party and Saddam's paramilitary seem to be very similar to the Viet Cong and no doubt Saddam considers himself to be at least the equal of Ho Chi Mihn. I don't want the kids over there now to go through what that generation did. General Powell's doctrine for the last war was overwhelming force. Mr. Rumsfeld's is do more with less. Lets not lets Mr. Rumsfeld's pride cost American lives.

Is your son in a war zone. Has he been told that those protests are about him? If that is so please tell him that the vast majority of people who are criticizing the war realize that it wasn't his decision. They are grateful for what he does and they will be glad to welcome him home when this is over. And tell him to watch his ass because even the best can die when their unit is outnumbered on enemy turf.

I'd be for the war if it were being run better. But I'm really concerned about the ability and credibility of the administration. I would like for them, to stop waffling about the reasons, to stop telling lies and spreading propaganda that no one believes and I would like for Rumsfeld in particular, to be a man and take responsibility as Secretary of Defense and to stop spreading the the blame and the heat down the line to his generals. He is setting a horrible example, an example that I believe the vast majority of US officers way have to much honor to copy, but a bad example never the less.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Troll
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 01:40 AM

JtS, after a long discussion with Skeptic, I have come to the realization that what we have here is a difference in perception.
You read Joshuas poem and saw a political statement that you felt needed a rebuttal.
I read it and saw a 20-year-old kid asking for reassurance.
Your perception was colored by the fact that you are actively Anti-war and I guess that it's pretty important to you that your thoughts on the subject be known
Mine was colored by the realization that it could have been written by my son, who just turned 20.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 01:06 AM

"It was a wasted effort since I should have realized that expressing your opinion was much more important to you than any damage you might inflict on a frightened kid."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:39 AM

Amos, I wouldn't have been at that checkpoint in the first place, so it's hard to say. I think I'd have just gotten out of the way, to be honest.

And thanks. But I might not make it to 30, if Norton1 has anything to say about it. :)

Bobert, if they didn't think they might have to kill someone in the military, they aren't very bright. And that there has been only one American conscientious objector so far (that I know of), tells me that most of them really don't mind killing Iraqis all that much. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for such people.

And Norton1 drives a Harley, not a walker, eh, Troll? OK, then. Let me amend my earlier statement: "I wouldn't fight you, no matter how hard you hit me with your white-trash motorbike."

Better?

---Lepus Rex

PS, Kat, yet again: Yeah, I got the "barely" thing the first time... I was kidding around. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Troll
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:08 AM

JtS you are correct. I should not have made the "haunt you to your grave" remark. It was a wasted effort since I should have realized that expressing your opinion was much more important to you than any damage you might inflict on a frightened kid. How very mature of you.
That you will no longer place any credence in anything I might say does not disturb me in the least. In fact, it could be construed as a compliment. Your approval or disapproval of my thoughts and utterances is not a requirement for my continued well-being.
If you should hook the giant radio telescope at Arrecibo, P.R. to the Hubble Space Telescope, you would STILL be unable to detect how very little your opinion of me or anything I do affects my life.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:29 PM

Well danged, Teribus! I oughtta stick my head in here more often. Heck of a food fight.

Hey, I din't want your A,B,C & D to go unappreciated. What kind of slide rule did you use on that? My Wes Ginny slide rule would like to spend a few minutes with yours in a dark alley... Jus funnin'.

But really, if you are wondering what you're getting for you tax dollars this weeks from Bush's PR folks it's the old "Support the Troops" crapola from the Vietnam days. Same tune.

"Yer either with us 'er yerz aginst us!"

I'd find it funny if it weren't such a simplistic, divisive, controling joke that was being played on a dumbed down population.

Yeah, you can bet that the great *Spitting Lie* is not far behind!

This ain't about supporting troops. It's about Bush and his warmonging cronies who stand to get rich from a bunch of working class American kids get killed and maimed while doing the same to folks in Iraq.

Yeah, I support out troops. Bring 'em, home, put Bush on trial for genocide, and get someone in the White House who has a better vision of the the US's role in leading the world into a *much better place*.

But, T-Bird, don't think for one moment that you're ABC's exercize has not gone unappreciated!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:29 PM

"In a general response I would say that "you" represents the supposed "peace" folks who antagonize others, start fights and then say they were not wanting that, stray from topic to keep the fight going, are assholes and not truly looking for anything but a confrontation, infer that which is not stated or implied to return to jingoistic taunting behavior, and have a rabid need to "win" with the last word at all costs. "You" also are the folks that destroy proerty in the name of civil disobedience, physically attack those who countermarch, physically assault men and women in uniform as a "statement" of peace, make anonymous threats over the phone to people who have children fighting in Iraq, are bigots, racist, gay bashing, despising of anything that does not exactly meet your standard of what should be. "

Boy, Norton, are you ever confused. (It's called projection, I believe.)

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 08:38 PM

TIA-It's a very good question, and one which is answered differently in every case. I would respond that in this case, it is most important that the administration realize that the war is not fully supported, and the people know that it is unjust, so that it is not repeated. I think our soldiers are morally stalwart enough to defend themselves and each other, even if they do not believe that everyone supports them; I think that everyone else objecting to war protests on behalf of the soldiers, with the thankfully rare exceptions of those protestors who do blame the soldiers, should let us get our message out, in the interests of the freedoms we all care about.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 07:22 PM

TIA, your question is a good one. One thing to remember that the War mongers can't wait to get boys in harms way for that reason. It could well be the reason they started the war a month before all of their troops were in place. The thing about Rumsfeld's rolling start is that it is a start. It is very difficult for a country to stop a war once it has been started.

Think of all the young men who died in Viet Nam because presidents and generals were to proud to admit mistakes. Who kept the war going long after it was lost because they didn't want to seem weak.

The people who are running this war are using propaganda on the Iraqis, the rest of the world and on people in this country. Why else would they claim that opposing the war or questioning their plans is "anti American"?

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 07:13 PM

The intent was to say that I support the young men but not the Administration. Some protesters of Viet Nam war were stupid and cruel enough to blame the soldiers for the war. I am not.

That first letter was not a request for support, it was a political statement. He is in Kuwait and claimed to speak for dead men. I am in Georgia. I tried to point out that there are other dead people who need to be thought of. I pointed out that thinking that he is the best doesn't shield him from the enemy. I pointed out that there are brave people at home doing what they feel is right. I'm not pointing it out to Corporal Josh, I'm point that out to people like you. If you think that is in poor taste, Troll, then so be it. Except for a few typos I'll stand by every word.


And Troll
with regard the stuff about a note in the Mudcat "Haunting me to my grave" could you be more childish and melodramitic? At least it tells me how much creedance to give to everything else you say.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Troll
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 06:33 PM

Lurker, have you heard the expression, "Damning with faint praise"?

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: TIA
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 06:28 PM

Troll's 5:52 PM post raises a damn good question.

{my words, not his, to follow}

How can one vocally and publicly oppose the war (our absolute right, and, to many, an obligation) without risking that those who are too young, too ideologically different, too short on the full text of the debate, too damn busy staying the f--- alive, or too whatever will not understand your political, ideological, economic or humantiarian point, and just take it personally? Is it even possible in a world where incomplete video bites are transmitted live across the globe? And, if it isn't, which is more likely to save lives, lessen suffering, and promote world peace - anti-war activities, or shuttin' up and pretending to go along?

I got no good answers.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 06:00 PM

"Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle! Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did, and it never will. Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass, August 4, 1857.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 05:55 PM

Troll-He did, however say "I'd really like to thank you" and "We know you are doing the right thing." Sounds like support to me. I suppose it might not be viewed in that light, but tehe intent is there.

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Troll
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 05:52 PM

Rhetoric points mostly but I wasn't trying to make it look dangerous. I just feel that it was in very poor taste and gave a hypothetical reason why.
Let me also say, however, that many things go through your mind in combat and no one needs something like that to complicate an already perilous situation. Every soldier knows, at least in the last couple of wars, that not everyone back home agrees with the war. But kids like Josh and his buddies, who have written what is essentially a plea for support as they go off to risk their lives, do not need to hear it. What they need to hear is that they have the support of the folks back home.
JtS may have been expressing an honest opinion and he had every right to do so. It's just that sometimes it's better to remain silent and I feel that this was one of those times. His letter showed -to me- much more concern for making his political point than for the mental welfare of the young man he addressed it to.
As I said before, I felt and still feel that it was in very poor taste. I hope this clears up any confusion you may have had.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 05:34 PM

Troll-Do you honestly believe that JtS's letter could cause a soldier such a crisis of faith that he would be unable to defend himself, or are you just trying to score rhetoric points by making an honest expression of opinion look dangerous?

Subject: RE: BS: Marine Message from the Front Lines
From: Troll
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 05:09 PM

Jack the Sailor. i suppose that you feel that you had to write your letter back so that your particular point of view. You had every right to do so and that right is one of the things that young men like Josh sign up to defend. He is about to go and lay his life on the line in a cause that he obviously feels is just.
If your letter causes him or any of his fellows to doubt their leaders at a critical moment, causing injury or death, it is my hope that you will somehow know and that the knowledge of that will haunt you to your grave.
If you had tried, I don't think you could ahve written a more damaging piece or one that was in poorer taste.
I eagerly await your "defense" of your action. It will be interesting in the extreme to see how you justify it.

troll