Stanza of 'Streams of Lovely Nancy'?

Subject: Stanza of 'Streams of Lovely Nancy'?
From: Stephen R.
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 02:11 AM

The broadside of "The Streams of Lovely Nancy" by Wright has a stanza not found in other broadsides:

The bright stars of Ireland, how glorious they shine, / Her skin's like the lily, her hair of dark brown, / I delight in her company more than gold, I declare, / Although she does slight me for the love that I bear.

The Newfoundland versions published by Maud Karpeles also have this, of course with some differences of detail:

The bright star of Erion so pleasant may shine, / With her hair over her shoulder of a deep, deepish brown. / I delight in her company more than gold I declare / Although she did slight me, she's the one I love dear.

"Skin like the lily" is commonplace, a number of Irish songs refer to a _cailin deas_ as "The bright star of" one town or another,;and the truelove may have brown hair in a number of songs. Beyond this, I wonder if anyone can identify the stanza or some part of it in any other song? I feel that it's out there somewhere but haven't come across it.

Stephen

Subject: RE: Stanza of 'Streams of Lovely Nancy'?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 12:35 AM

I posted the following over three years ago, and got no response. Here it is again, in the hope that someone may have seen this somewhere. I still think it out there somewhere . . . .

Stephen

The broadside of "The Streams of Lovely Nancy" by Wright has a stanza not found in other broadsides:

The bright stars of Ireland, how glorious they shine, / Her skin's like the lily, her hair of dark brown, / I delight in her company more than gold, I declare, / Although she does slight me for the love that I bear.

The Newfoundland versions published by Maud Karpeles also have this, of course with some differences of detail:

The bright star of Erion so pleasant may shine, / With her hair over her shoulder of a deep, deepish brown. / I delight in her company more than gold I declare / Although she did slight me, she's the one I love dear.

"Skin like the lily" is commonplace, a number of Irish songs refer to a _cailin deas_ as "The bright star of" one town or another,;and the truelove may have brown hair in a number of songs. Beyond this, I wonder if anyone can identify the stanza or some part of it in any other song? I feel that it's out there somewhere but haven't come across it.

Stephen

Subject: Lyr Add: YOUNG-MAN'S LAMENTATION (from Bodleian)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 06:50 AM

Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads contains a broadside dated "between 1683 and 1696" called THE YOUNG-MAN'S LAMENTATION - Douce Ballads 2(261b). Unfortunately, the on-line image is mostly illegible, but a transcription already exists in an article at Musical Traditions. I have copied it here. (I modernized the spelling and punctuation.) It has 4 lines which resemble yours. I have marked them in boldface:

THE YOUNG-MAN'S LAMENTATION
His Passionate Complaint of his Unconstant Lover;
Together with his Resolution to leave her who scornfully slighted him.
To an Excellent New Tune, or, Over Hills and High Mountains
Licensed according to Order.

1. Meeting's a pleasure,
But parting's a grief.
An unconstant lover
Is worse than a thief.
A thief he can rob me
And take what I have;
But an unconstant lover
Will bring me to the grave.

2. When fancy is grounded
And rooted beside,
The lover is wounded
As soon as denied.
Many torments are bleeding
To increase his pain,
And the lover lies bleeding
By the darts of disdain.

3. This is my condition,
I needs must confess.
With humble submission
I have made my address.
In her charms I delighted
More than gold, I declare;
Yet am scornfully slighted
For the love which I bear.

4. I value not treasure,
The rich golden ore.
There's joy, love and pleasure
Which I dearly adore.
But alas! That sweet blessing
I may not enjoy,
I all sorrows possessing,
Which my life will destroy.

5. Like a ship on the ocean,
I am tossed to and fro,
From the height of promotion,
To the depth of sad woe.
While the billows are roaring
In a tempest of grief,
I the fates am imploring
But can find no relief.

6. Of a false-hearted lover
I must needs complain.
To my grief I discovered
That my sighs are in vain,
Having moved her to pity,
With tears in my eyes,
While that sorrowful ditty
She would scorn and despise.

7. To think that my jewel
Should torture me so,
In love's flaming fuel,
With a fever I glow.
She's more than ungrateful,
Unconstant, unkind,
To her dear loyal lover
Like the wavering wind.

8. In her cheeks blushing roses
With lilies appear,
Where Cupid reposes
As her charms I draw near.
I account it my duty
Her perfection to prize.
She's a phoenix for beauty;
Was she constant likewise!

9. If her heart was not ranging,
She should soon be my bride,
But alas she is changing
And turns with the tide.
Having ruined many
By her false heart alone,
She's not constant to any
But can love more than one.

10. Since I find out her folly,
I'll no longer repine,
But will strive to be jolly
With a glass of rich wine.
No longer about her
Will I troubled be.
I can now live without her.
Let her go, farewell she.

11. Though I am forsaken,
Yet she is forsworn;
Yet she is mistaken
If she think that I'll mourn.
I'll set as slightly by her,
As e'er she did me,
And for ever will deny her.
Let her go, farewell she.

Printed for P. Busby, J. Deacon, J. Blare and J. Back.

Subject: RE: Stanza of 'Streams of Lovely Nancy'?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 10:57 AM

Note that the "Stephen Reynolds of Oregon" mentioned in Steve Gardham's article at  Mustrad,  which originally appeared in  English Dance and Song,  is the Steve R who started this thread back in 2003.

Interestingly, the beginning of 'Over Hills and High Mountains' is echoed in some examples of the 'Shrowsbury for me' / 'Boys of Kilkenny' song family, which overlaps significantly with the 'Streams' / 'Green Mountain' group. The Pepys broadside can be seen at  The Pepys Ballads:

The Wandring Maiden, Or, True Love at length United,  

Related texts and commentary are at Bruce Olson's web site, archived at both the Mudcat and the University of Fresno:

http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/Olson/SONGTXT1.HTM#BYSKLKN

http://www.mudcat.org/olson/viewpage.cfm?theurl=SONGTXT1.html#BYSKLKN

The tune for 'Over Hills and High Mountains' seems not to have survived.

Subject: RE: Stanza of 'Streams of Lovely Nancy'?
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 04:35 PM

I think the tune probably has survived, but there are more than one contender...identification is not certain.
Chappell's "Popular Music of the Olden time" goes into this a fair amount. He gives a tune, also known as "On yonder high mountain" (p681 0f the Dover edition) as his main suggestion. A fabulous tune, incidentally.

Subject: RE: Stanza of 'Streams of Lovely Nancy'?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 07:27 PM

Simpson wasn't convinced by Chappell's remark that "it is probably the right air". It isn't impossible, but there is no particular evidence to support his guess, beyond compatibility of metre and the mention of "high mountains"; which isn't exactly a novel phrase.

"The relationship between the tune of 'Love will find out the way' and 'Over hills and high mountains' is puzzling. The latter tune name is derived from the opening line of 'The Wandring Maiden ... To an excellent new Tune' (B[agford] B[allads] II, 572 [and Pepys 3.165; see link above]); and this ballad is so evidently a paraphrase of the earlier 'Truth's Integrity' that one is inclined to wonder whether the tune for it was indeed 'new,' or whether its description was merely a part of the advertiser's dernier cri psychology. We do not, at any rate, possess a tune called 'Over hills and high mountains,' although several late seventeenth-century ballads cite it for singing.

"Four ballad operas use a tune called 'On yonder(s) high mountain,' ¹ for which no original words have been found; it bears a family resemblance to 'Love will find out the way,' despite a good deal of difference in harmonic and melodic detail.

¹ ... Chappell (PMOT II, 682) used this music with one of the ballads calling for 'Over hills and high mountains,' but he recognised the lack of positive documentary evidence to link the two tunes."

Claude M Simpson, The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music. New Brunswick: Rutgers University Press, 1966, pp 472-474, Love Will Find Out the Way.