Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)

DigiTrad:
BARRETTS PRIVATEERS
GARNETT'S HOMEMADE BEER
MICKEY'S MOUSKETEERS


Related threads:
Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? (38)
Lyr Req: 3 minute LaMarca Ring of the Niebelungs (50)
Lyr Req: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers) (3)
Lyr Req: Barrett's Privateers (Parody by Ian Robb) (17)
Lyr Req/ADD: Mickey's Mousketeers (parody) (7)


Sherbrooke Village 27 Jul 98 - 03:57 PM
Richard Wright 27 Jul 98 - 05:23 PM
Dan Calder 27 Jul 98 - 08:57 PM
Barry Finn 27 Jul 98 - 09:52 PM
dick greenhaus 27 Jul 98 - 09:55 PM
jester@buncombe.main.nc.us 27 Jul 98 - 10:44 PM
Ireland O'Reilly 28 Jul 98 - 12:21 PM
Dan Calder 28 Jul 98 - 12:37 PM
Ireland O'Reilly 28 Jul 98 - 01:01 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 29 Jul 98 - 07:37 PM
Dan Calder 29 Jul 98 - 08:16 PM
Dan Calder 29 Jul 98 - 08:18 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 29 Jul 98 - 08:52 PM
Ireland O'Reilly 30 Jul 98 - 12:59 PM
Joe Offer 30 Jul 98 - 01:57 PM
Ireland O'Reilly 30 Jul 98 - 02:31 PM
harpgirl 28 Jun 99 - 12:11 AM
Night Owl 28 Jun 99 - 10:09 AM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 03 May 00 - 08:04 PM
Stewie 03 May 00 - 08:34 PM
Willie-O 03 May 00 - 09:05 PM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 03 May 00 - 09:09 PM
Uncle_DaveO 04 May 00 - 09:37 AM
T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 04 May 00 - 10:37 AM
Clinton Hammond2 04 May 00 - 12:21 PM
SDShad 04 May 00 - 02:44 PM
Bill D 04 May 00 - 06:48 PM
Clinton Hammond2 04 May 00 - 08:04 PM
The Walrus 05 May 00 - 01:53 PM
GUEST,Shane Evong (Halifax) 11 Jul 02 - 11:42 AM
Mr Happy 11 Jul 02 - 12:31 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 Jul 02 - 12:35 PM
InOBU 11 Jul 02 - 12:49 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 Jul 02 - 12:52 PM
InOBU 11 Jul 02 - 03:55 PM
MMario 11 Jul 02 - 04:24 PM
EBarnacle1 11 Jul 02 - 04:37 PM
flattop 11 Jul 02 - 04:39 PM
GUEST,Jean in Sherbrooke 02 Apr 04 - 07:33 PM
InOBU 02 Apr 04 - 10:00 PM
LadyJean 03 Apr 04 - 01:02 AM
Charley Noble 03 Apr 04 - 09:46 AM
breezy 03 Apr 04 - 10:01 AM
Amos 03 Apr 04 - 12:00 PM
Uncle_DaveO 03 Apr 04 - 12:56 PM
GUEST,Obie 03 Apr 04 - 06:03 PM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 05 Apr 04 - 04:53 PM
Clinton Hammond 05 Apr 04 - 05:13 PM
Santa 05 Apr 04 - 05:45 PM
Clinton Hammond 05 Apr 04 - 05:47 PM
GUEST,Kile Dawe 11 Oct 04 - 04:35 PM
breezy 12 Oct 04 - 04:28 AM
Clinton Hammond 12 Oct 04 - 12:04 PM
TS 12 Oct 04 - 12:47 PM
ToulouseCruise 12 Oct 04 - 12:59 PM
Taconicus 11 Aug 10 - 02:29 PM
frogprince 11 Aug 10 - 03:31 PM
Taconicus 11 Aug 10 - 05:10 PM
Joe_F 11 Aug 10 - 05:58 PM
frogprince 11 Aug 10 - 06:23 PM
Joe Offer 11 Aug 10 - 06:31 PM
The Fooles Troupe 11 Aug 10 - 07:34 PM
Taconicus 11 Aug 10 - 08:16 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Sherbrooke Village
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 03:57 PM

We are looking for information on the Stan Rogers Song "Barrett's Privateers". We are looking for the sources that Stan may have used for this song. For instance, does anyone know which Sherbrooke he was referring to?

Thanks!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Richard Wright
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 05:23 PM

Try his web site or the STan Rogers Festival site


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Dan Calder
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 08:57 PM

Check out the Stan Rogers Page:

http://www.summerfolk.org/srmain.htm

You'll find all sorts of great informaton, including extensive writings and discussions on Barrett's Privateers. All of your questions regarding all things Stan-Related (and some you never even thought of) will be answered.

Enjoy, Dan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 09:52 PM

Or if you're just looking for the words & tune you could try the DT. Barry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 09:55 PM

Sherbrook is in Nova Scotia.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: jester@buncombe.main.nc.us
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 10:44 PM

There's also a Sherbrooke in Quebec, straight North of Orleans, Vermont an hour or so. It's NE of Magog, and due SOuth of Asbestos. As I recall, that area of Quebec is know as the Eastern townships, although it's been some time since I visited that part of the world. I'd have to bet that Stan was refering to the Sherbrooke in N.S., though, since the P.Q. Sherbrooke is quite a ways from the St. Lawrence. I guess this note is just a waste of everyone's time, but I did get to recall some ol' Northern road trips. Look for the several parody versions of this great tune on the Stan site. Happy pickin'! JESTER!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Ireland O'Reilly
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 12:21 PM

If the Sherbrooke in Barett's Privateers is in fact Sherbrooke, Nova Scotia, I suppose it was poetic license on Stan's part when he said "The year was 1778" as our humble town in Nova Scotia was not known as "Sherbrooke" until about 1815 or so.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Dan Calder
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 12:37 PM

One has to keep in mind that Stan wrote the song in about half an hour one evening. He was performing with The Friends of Fiddlers Green, and became annoyed when he couldn't get a chance to sing the lead in any of the sea chanteys they were doing. So...he went off into a quiet corner and wrote his own...one only he could sing the lead to that evening...thus came about the birth of Barrett's Privateers. Quite a guy was Stan. Another song he reportedly wrote quickly was "The House of Orange"...a much more meaningful piece of work, especially in light of what has been going on in Northern Ireland lately. It was also the last song Stan ever wrote. He said, "I don't care what your politics are, when our children are dying in the streets, it's time to put away the guns." Amen to that.

Dan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Origins: Barrett's Privateers
From: Ireland O'Reilly
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 01:01 PM

"I don't care what your politics are, when our children are dying in the streets, it's time to put away the guns."

Yes, Dan... a fervent Amen.

Back to the privateers for a moment, though. I've found a couple of sources with an interesting twist. More than one source says that perhaps the "Sherbrooke" in Stan's song refers to a ship, and not the town. There were three ships called "Sherbrooke" on the water at the time the song is supposed to take place. One was out of Halifax, and was named the Sir John Sherbrooke, after a great military man of the day (and later, one of our governors here in Nova Scotia), Sir John Coape Sherbrooke. Incidentally, both Sherbrooke NS and Sherbrooke PQ were named after Sir John as well. A great page with info on "Barrett's..." is here, at Barrett's Privateers Explored.

Cheers,

Ireland


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 29 Jul 98 - 07:37 PM

Didn't know that about the date of the use of the name Sherbrooke in Nova Scotia. I had always assumed that it was so called from the days when the United Empire Loyalists went there during the American Revolutionary War. What name did it go by then?

Besides, I think most of the serious privateering was done during the War of 1812, but 1812 wouldn't scan.:)

Stan was a great singer and writer, but like all of his he sometimes made a few mistakes of fact. For example, in The Nancy, The Moy was not on Lake St. Clair but on the Detroit River on what is now the Canadian side. And I have never been able to figure out what incident he refers to in that song. There were MacIntoshes here, but as far as I am aware they were British subjects in good standing and never had any battles with the militia. Amherstberg fell during the War of 1812 but I haven't read any reference in any local history book to the MacIntoshes doing battle with the Americans from their schooner. It is the sort of thing that would likely have been mentioned, and no doubt a plaque erected.

And the Blue Dolphin was at the bottom of the harbour in Sarnia, not Windsor. Last I heard of it, in one of the Detroit papers, some eccentric old geezer had it in dock in Detroit wanting to restore it, and someone unplugged the pumps by mistake and it sank again. That was several years ago and I have heard nothing of it since.

But I never let these pedantic concerns get in the way of a good song.:)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Dan Calder
Date: 29 Jul 98 - 08:16 PM

"Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story."

Dan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Dan Calder
Date: 29 Jul 98 - 08:18 PM

"Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story." Let the historians worry about the details...you can always find them in a book. Let the music be the main message. We can overlook a few flaws now and then. Dan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 29 Jul 98 - 08:52 PM

And "Watching The Apples Grow" is to the tune of "The Cherokee Shuffle", but who cares?:)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Ireland O'Reilly
Date: 30 Jul 98 - 12:59 PM

Before 1818 the town of Sherbrooke, PQ was known as Grandes Fourches. The town of Sherbrooke, NS, also had a french name. it was first settled as a fur-trading outpost around the 1650's and was called Fort Sainte Marie, after the St. Mary's river, near which the settlement was built. the town was mostly French to begin with, but by the time the 1800's came, the british had also come. Shrbrooke was primarily scottish presbyterian (probably spelled wrong!) community. More on sherbrooke, check this out...

Cheers,

Ireland


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Jul 98 - 01:57 PM

Say, Ireland, I tried to send you a personal message, but apparently you aren't registered or you're set up not to allow messages. Take a look here for Dan Mulligan's HTML primer. You had the link above almost right, but you put a slash before the a href and that goofed it up. Slashes are used to terminate an HTML command, and you put that slash at the beginning of your command instead of at the end.
Quotation marks within a link are optional, as far as I can see - but if you open a link with quotes, you have to close it with quotes. See Dan's example - you can leave out his quote marks if you like, but you have to leave them out on both ends of the link.
-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Ireland O'Reilly
Date: 30 Jul 98 - 02:31 PM

Thanks, Joe!

I am well-versed in the ways of HTML, but was in a hurry & i didn't bother to check my typing. As a lot of people know, I'm _always_ in aa hurry, and I'm a terrlble, terrible typpist when I'm in a hurry. :) I'm glad somebody cares enough to go behind me and pick up on my typos :)

I know some people who would probably benefit from the primer, though. :)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: harpgirl
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 12:11 AM

this thread might help Rick and Dianne...harpgirl


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Night Owl
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 10:09 AM

Great information....thanks all...hope there's more!!!! (Not letting the facts get in the way of good music.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 03 May 00 - 08:04 PM

BTW, there are people who remembered hearing in the early days of the song, Stan singing the song as "on" Sherbrooke, rather than "in" Sherbrooke, feeding the speculation it was really a ship by that name. According to those who have researched it, there were several ships which had that name, none known to be of the year mentioned in the song. Also, there was a General Sherbrooke, who was the fellow that both the Quebec and Nova Scotia communities were possibly named for, since he served in both areas.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Stewie
Date: 03 May 00 - 08:34 PM

Neil V. Rosenburg (Ed) 'Transforming Tradition: Folk Music Revivals Examined' University of Illinois Press includes 2 essays on the song: Pauline Greenhill '"The Folk Process" in the Revival: "Barrett's Privateers" and "Baratt's Privateers"' (pp 137-157) and Anne Lederman '"Barrett's Privateers": Performance and Participation in the Folk Revival'. (pp 160-174).

--Stewie.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Willie-O
Date: 03 May 00 - 09:05 PM

Huh. Speaking of coincidences, last Saturday on the finale of the Nova Scotia Kitchen Party on CBC Radio One, they did a Stan Rogers tribute (big surprise, not.) As an extra-special thing they did a multi-location worldwide singalong of you-guessed-it...Barretts Privateers.

It so happened that at the time I was driving down Sherbrooke Street in Montreal (took my young lad and a couple of his pals to the Biodome for the day, hoo-eee!) so of course I sang "Wish I was on Sherbrooke now". Thought I was being clever but apparently I was just being true to the original...

I had an ancestor on my New Brunswick mom's side who tried privateering in the war of 1812. Highly unsuccessful venture. Lost his farm as well as his ship (I think), having mortgaged the former to outfit the latter.

Willie-O


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 03 May 00 - 09:09 PM

I was there at the time the show was broadcast.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 May 00 - 09:37 AM

"In Sherbrooke" would refer to aboard the Sherbrooke just as well as "on Sherbrooke"--more colloquially, in fact, as the usage used to be.

Dave Oesterreich


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 04 May 00 - 10:37 AM

Great thread--thanks for the info and links, everybody!

T.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 04 May 00 - 12:21 PM

Read "An Unfinished Conversation".. Stans Bio... all kinds of info about all kinds of stuff...

BUT.. Sherbrooke refers to a town not a ship... And it's vague so that it can apply to any or all of themo...

The song was arranged by Garnet...

Privateers 1n 1778?? A little late boys?!? LOL!! Makes the song even funnier really!

And please people, if yer gonna cover this song, do it a capella like it was ment to be... I've heard some horrible treatments of Barrette and the boys, and the worst offeneders have been the ones who try to put instruments behind it... Don't change the lyrics either... I never "wish I was in Edinburgh now..." We would not presume to rewrite Shakespear eh???

LOL!!!!

{~`


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: SDShad
Date: 04 May 00 - 02:44 PM

I must confess that when I sing Barrett's in a setting where "God damn them all" might be inappropriate for a large enough percentage of the audience, I follow the example of someone in a much earlier Mudcat thread and sing it ass "well, hang them all." The original works better, but if there are, for instance, families with small children about, I'll bend to propriety on those occasions.

But "Edinburgh?" Yeesh. Why?

And yes, I do sing it a capella. Unless the inevitable handclaps from the audience count.

Chris


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 May 00 - 06:48 PM

"Barrett's Privateers" has fallen in with the likes of "The Old Dun Cow" and a few others as songs that seem to grab many newcomers to 'folkish' music...*sigh*...they LOVE to bellow them out at gatherings, whether or not they understand them, know the tune, get the words right--or have heard it done every week for MONTHS!...

...just a personal observation and peeve..*grin*

(perhaps YOU can think of songs which get overdone this way...)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 04 May 00 - 08:04 PM

Barretts hardly goes on my list of overdone... it's only been around since 76... But I'll argue that it's FOLK, no if, ands, or buts...

With junk like Wild Rover and Whiskey In The Jar out there I'm all too happy to be singing Barretts instead!!

But I also will not change the lyrics for children.. most parents who are concerned about their children learning language like that are just plain naive and likely their children have already picked it up, or MUCH worse.... Folk music is for common people, and common people use "expressive" language... Why try to deny it.. better to educate yer kids so that they know that there's a time and place for such language... Singing Barrett's, yes. In church, No!

LOL!!!!

{~`


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: The Walrus
Date: 05 May 00 - 01:53 PM

>Privateers 1n 1778?? A little late boys?!? LOL!! Makes >the song even funnier really!

Why so?, If the war went into the 1780s, there was still a chance of merchant prizes (and privateering wasn't outlawed until sometime around the 1860s).

As you may have gathered, the American RevWar isn't my period of history.

Regards

Tom


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: GUEST,Shane Evong (Halifax)
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 11:42 AM

Great song and it should be appricated a little more.. Who ever said that it sucks with instruments behide it must be deaf.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:31 PM

there's a canadian group, 'tanglefoot' who do a superb rendition.

i've seen them loads at uk ffs, & i think they're still here this season


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:35 PM

Oh I'm not deaf... I'm just correct...

It does suck with instruments behind it...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:49 PM

Dear SDShad:
My sister in law asked me not sing sing Barrett's Privateers with the God Damn part around my nephew, to , instead, sing gosh darn (fuck's-sake she is raising an effing yuppie!) ... my answer was, "I wont change our cultural traditions, so I'll just not sing around the ween, if he grows up to be an eejit, it is on your head not mine..." Cheers Larry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:52 PM

Yer nephew is how old Larry?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 03:55 PM

Eleven. Cheers Larry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: MMario
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 04:24 PM

If the four and five year olds at ren-faires can figure out there is a time they can use the language and times they cannot - an eleven year old certainly should be able to!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 04:37 PM

The in or on argument is getting like the in or on argument in Fiddler's Green. Just do it like the author published it, F'Gawdsakes.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: flattop
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 04:39 PM

Couldn't "in Sherbrooke" and "on Sherbrooke" also both refer to the esteemed General. That's the thing about lyrics and old military men who have been away from women too long, they're open to interpretation.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST,Jean in Sherbrooke
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 07:33 PM

The song is about the village in Nova Scotia I dwell in. While Stan was an Ontarian his grandparents lived in Canso, Guysborough County and he spent many a summer there. Sherbrooke is on one end of Guys.Co. and Canso is on the other.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: InOBU
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 10:00 PM

As this thread has been re-opened... being that me nephew has a very distant relitive who was a GREAT privateer, one of the most successful of all time, Otway Burns... sank and capture more than his share of British shipping in 1812, he should sing God Damn them all... and grow up to be a hearty buck.
Cheers
Larry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: LadyJean
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 01:02 AM

A Scadian lady I know wrote an S.C.A. parody called "Galen's Privateers" that is very funny, ending with the lines, "And they took us to jail and they read us our rights, and some guy named Bubba says he likes my tights". Googe Assar, and see if you can find the whole song. Even if you don't know the S.C.A. You'll think it's funny.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 09:46 AM

It never occured to me that "in Sherbrooke now" referred to anything other than a sorely disallusioned privateerman's nostalgia for his home port, and probably the one in Nova Scotia. That's a major point of the song. And by what flight of fancy would one want to be in or on "General Sherbrooke" now?

This discussion calls for a glass of Garnet homemade beer!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: breezy
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 10:01 AM

How I wish I'ld never drunk it now

ssh


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Fate of the Blue Dolphin
From: Amos
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 12:00 PM

As regards the fate of the Blue Dolphin, the sister ship of the Bluenose, the following is of interest:

The ship was apparently raised in 1982 and brought to Sarnia where it
was docked for repairs. It's owner was a man named Joe Pica (who
incidentally was a printer). His interest extended primarily to
working on the engine, and Bruce Kemp, who as well as being a
photographer is also a diver, did his best to hold things together as
far as the hull was concerned. Pica was an American, and didn't have
enough money to restore the ship properly. The interior was
apparently beautiful and need buffing up more than major restoration.
In it's earlier history the ship had been used by Wood's Hole Marine
Institute to do geographical underwater surveys. The ship was
apparently large enough that the docking fees were horrendous. Donna
says that really, government funding was needed to restore it and
maintain it, and they were trying to arrange for this, but it would
have meant that Pica needed to give up ownership, and in exchange
would become Captain in perpetuity. He was unwilling to do this.
According to Donna he was not a very social person, and wanted it
repaired only for his own enjoyment. In the middle of the night, he
"pulled a Hank Snow" and disappeared with the boat, leaving all the
dockage fees unpaid. He took her back down to the Detroit River. He
didn't have any diver friends there to help keep her afloat and
without maintenance the wood deteriorated quickly, and she sank again
shortly thereafter and continues to lie on the bottom of the Detroit
River. He is still seeking money to raise her, but can't afford
dockage.

The Kemps own all the original drawings of the boat. At the time Pica
took her away they had been trying to interest JB Phelan (owner of
Swiss Chalet chain) to invest in her restoration. Who knows what
condition she is in now...

Bev Walkling
Sarnia, Ontario
walkling@ebtech.net


A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 12:56 PM

The Walrus said, in part:

(and privateering wasn't outlawed until sometime around the 1860s).

Outlawed by whom? A privateer is licensed by his sovereign government to prey on the enemy. "A letter of marque came from the King" Even as late as 1948, when Israel was formed, since it didn't have a powerful navy Israel issued letters of marque and reprisal to help with the naval function.

Who, in 1860 or so, would have international authority to "outlaw" this function? Or even today, who? My guess is, nobody.

Dave Oesterreich


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 06:03 PM

Privateering would be banned by peace treaties between warring countries. The privateers simply became pirates,in many cases, and continued to plunder.
Stan's songs were most often historical fiction, so some error from historical fact should be forgiven. Sherbrooke, Nova Scotia is obvious as the place even if the name was not correct in 1778.
          Obie


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 04:53 PM

For a really good essay on Barrett's Privateers including speculations on Sherbrooke, have a look at

Tony Dalman's Essay on Barrett's Privateers


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 05:13 PM

Interesting...

But some people are thinking way too much about a song that is just damn good fun....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Santa
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 05:45 PM

Since when did thinking about something stop it being fun?

Thinking about things is pretty good fun in itself.

You got something against thinking, huh?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 05:47 PM

Anytime -I- try it, it hurts too much!

LOL

And ya... I find that people who "overthink" tend to be an uptight, repressed lot...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST,Kile Dawe
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 04:35 PM

I need the audio file for Barret's Privateers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: breezy
Date: 12 Oct 04 - 04:28 AM

you need 'Home in Halifax'

Too many I have heard try to do this song without hearing the original

and 'Fogarty's Cove'


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Oct 04 - 12:04 PM

Ug... The original 'studio' version of Barrett's on Fogartys Cove is really lousy... check the live version on "Between The Breaks" instead...

But ya... the best is probably "Home In Halifax"

If you were to contact a certain Mudcatter directly, he might even email you an MP3 of it...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: TS
Date: 12 Oct 04 - 12:47 PM

I will say one thing...Barrett's Privateers is definately the most requested song when I am on stage. I hate singing it most times but on the plus side of things...its the one song I can sing at any venue, festival, etc. from St. John's to Victoria where at very moment you think you're losing the crowd and you come out wiht "Oh the year was 1778..." everyone cheers, starts clapping, and sings along. So for that reason alone, what a treat of a song!...I will even admit, (with head hung in shame) that when its in the 3rd set, and the beer is soaking in just right, there are times when I finish the last line with "..so how the fuck did I get here"......Slàinte!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 12 Oct 04 - 12:59 PM

Reel... how about

"I'm a drunk old man singin' on the stage here
Would someone buy me a f***in' beer"


But, like you, it's a highly requested song for us, and one that we try to avoid... whenever my bandmate breaks a string, we will normally do it then -- he sits on the floor and brings his mic down, and changes the string while singing backup!

Brian


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Taconicus
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 02:29 PM

When I sing it I change a single word which, aside from the musically unimportant anachronism that Sherbrooke didn't exist with that name until 1815, is the one outright mistake Rogers made that no seafaring man would stand for: ships roll on their side, rather than pitch (which is a rotation in the vertical fore-aft plane). Ergo, to avoid mental snorts of ridicule from listeners who know ships and boats, I'd sing it:

The Antelope shook and rolled on her side.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: frogprince
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 03:31 PM

I wish I could attribute this more specifically now, but I know that years back I heard someone who had been close to Stan (possibly even Garnet while on stage with Stan) observe that Stan was a master of commemorating naval encounters that never happened. He wrote some things out of respect for actual people or circumstances, and some with no concern at all except making a good song.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Taconicus
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 05:10 PM

Frogprince, look here for an historical analysis of Barrett's Privateers, including a discussion with Stan Rogers about what a "main trunk" is.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Joe_F
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 05:58 PM

Taconicus: Hear, hear!

Roll, pitch, yaw!
Surge, sway, heave!

has indeed the makings of a chorus, and I have an idea for the song.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: frogprince
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 06:23 PM

Thanks, Taconicus.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 06:31 PM

This is from Dan Conlin's THE CANADIAN PRIVATEERING HOMEPAGE. Just so it doesn't get lost, I thought I'd post it here also.

Is the Stan Rogers song "Barrett's Privateers" true?


Well, no, not literally. There was no Elcid Barrett. There was no Antelope sloop and there wasn't even a town of Sherbrooke in the year of 1778. Stan Rogers basically made up an imaginary privateer to carry a 60s anti-war theme in a traditional folk setting. Having said all that, many of the details, ranging from the type of cannons mentioned to the letter of marque reference, are very authentic. Stan Rogers did a fair bit of reading about privateering and appears to have been influenced by the historian Archibald MacMechan, who wrote several books on Canadian privateers, as well as a privateering song of his own, The Ballad of the Rover.

For more information: Frequently Asked Questions about Privateering

Below you will find the lyrics to Stan Rogers' song with explanatory notes.
Barrett's Privateers - by Stan Rogers. Inspired by a story from Bill Howell, a Halifax poet, and influenced in style by Friends of Fiddlers Green. The following comments are intended to supply background to the period details. Further discussion about Stan Rogers and this song can be found on the Stan Rogers Website.
Congrats and best wishes to the successful Stan Rogers Folk Festival in Canso, Nova Scotia!

Oh the year was 1778
In the American Revolution (1775-1783) aggressive American raiding of Nova Scotian communities provoked previously neutral Nova Scotians into privateering against the Americans. Nova Scotia had a long history of privateering before and after this time.
(How I wish I was in Sherbrooke Now!)
Sherbrooke is a town on Nova Scotia's Eastern Shore the area of Stan Rogers' family. However it did not get the name Sherbrooke until 1815 and was very sparsely settled in 1778. For more on Sherbrooke's history, check out the the Sherbrooke Village web page. Some have suggested this may in fact be a reference to a large successful privateer vessel named Sir John Sherbrooke, which the rueful singer wishes he joined instead of the scummy Antelope.
A letter of marque came from the King
A letter of marque or privateering license was issued by a colonial governor using authority conveyed by the King, in this case George III.
Here are some examples of real Letters of Marque.
To the scummiest vessel I'd ever seen
Privateer captains and owners generally chose new and fast vessels but occasionally there were hasty gambles with inadequate vessels.

CHORUS:
God damn them all! I was told, we'd cruise the seas for American gold
Privateering was a handy mix of wartime patriotism and the chance to make your fortune. Real privateer recruiting, such as the newspaper advertisement run by the privateer Revenge in 1779, used phrases appealing to men" desiring honour and fortune".
We'd fire no guns! Shed no tears!
This was a realistic promise. Other than the obligatory warning shot the vast majority of privateer captures were completely bloodless.
But I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier
Other hazards that could produce broken men, but they were more like shipwreck, disease or conscription into the tyrannical Royal Navy.
The last of Barrett's Privateers
The song exagerates the battle risks of privateering, offering us a case of a crew who all perish in battle except the singer. No Canadian privateering vessel suffered such a fate in battle. The closest match in reality is probably the schooner Rolla, which sank in an 1815 storm with all hands.

O, Elcid Barrett cried the town
There was no real Elcid Barrett. Stan Rogers, according to his mother, borrowed the "Elcid" from a friend because he liked its old fashioned sound. Barrett was a common surname in several Nova Scotian privateering communities and a Robert Barret shows up on the crew list of one privateer ship in 1799, although only as seaman, not captain!
(How I wish I was in Sherbrooke Now!)
For twenty brave men, all fishermen, who
Twenty men was very small for a privateer vessel. many carried crews of a hundred or more. Fishermen were often draw to privateering but so was almost every trade of the time from carpentry to medicine.
Would make for him the Antelope's crew
Even a small sloop would usually have a crew of thirty or more to man guns and crew captured ships. However perhaps the fictional Antelope was in such bad shape that few wanted to join her.
Antelope was a very common vessel name in the 1700s. It was used literally by hundreds of vessels. (As a very fast animal in a far away place, it was a great name for an owner to pick to promote his vessel's speed.) - another example of Stan Rogers' great sense of authenticity (not to mention irony!) in picking an appropriate period name for his fictional vessel.

The Antelope sloop was a sickening sight.
A sloop is a single masted sailing vessel, usually quite small. Some very successful privateers were sloops, such as the Dart from Saint John, New Brunswick. However, their small size meant they were good for only short range privateering. One privateer sloop, Frances Mary, made a disastrous cruise to the West Indies in 1800 that bears some resemblance to the fate of Antelope. Sloop also had another meaning as a class of Royal Navy warships, smaller than a frigate but larger than a schooner. However there is no little or no evidence that this meaning of sloop was used by privateers.
(How I wish I was in Sherbrooke Now!)
She'd a list to the port and her sails in rags
Listing means a vessel tilted to one side by leaking or sloppy ballasting, a very worrisome sign.
And the cook in the scuppers with the staggers and jags
Scuppers a small holes to drain water from decks and a logical place to find someone reeling from an alcoholic affliction.

On the King's birthday we put to sea
King George III's birthday: June 4. Often celebrated by privateer owners with flags and cannons, although marked less enthusiastically by average folk
(How I wish I was in Sherbrooke Now!)
We were ninety-one days to Montego Bay
In Jamaica, but actually a poor privateer base as it was too close to navy ships who might conscript your crew and too far removed from American trade routes.
Pumping like Madmen all the way
Ships damaged in storms, or in this case, a worn-out, leakly vessels had to be pumped continuously, a wearing and backbreaking task. Rogers was perceptive in this reference. Privateer logbooks on long cruises to the west Indies often attest to heavy pumping. Pumping was usually helped by rhythmic work songs called chanties. Barrett's Privateers could be used as a chanty, but the rhythm is not ideal.

On the ninety-sixth day we sailed again
Five days meant a quick top-up of supplies and hopefully some repair work to the Antelope's undersides!
(How I wish I was in Sherbrooke Now!)
When a bloody great Yankee hove in sight
A large merchant ship was always the sought-after prize. Many privateers under 100 tons but captured 400 or 500 ton enemy vessels.
With a our cracked four pounder we made to fight
Very accurate description of a favoured size of privateer cannon, the four pounder. A small gun, about the thickness of a telephone pole and firing a ball weighting 4 pounds, these guns were lightweight, making a vessel fast and sea-worthy. The drawback was their very limited range. Some privateers armed mainly with four pounders, such as the brig Rover and the ship Charles Mary Wentworth, enjoyed very successful careers, but it took a very skilled commander and gunner to deploy them effectively.

The Yankee lay low down with gold
This is stretching possibilities as the rebellious colonies had little or no gold to ship, let alone enough to weight a ship down, although one could perhaps suggest a gold payment headed to their friends, the French, to pay for supplies. Of course a valuable cargo like rum or whale oil would be nearly worth its weight in gold.
(How I wish I was in Sherbrooke Now!)
She was broad and fat and loose in stays
An authentic gender touch here - seaman often used the same language to describe a vessel as to describe a woman, so the image of a large overweight woman is used to convey a large slow ship. This is re-enforced with the description of rigging. Stays are the lines used to support masts from the bow (Shrouds support masts from the sides.) but the word stays also referred to corsets (a women's undergarment covering the waist), hence the image of a large, sloppy woman. Hardly non sexist language, but appropriate to its 18th century setting! There is another layer of nautical terminology here. "Stays" and "in stays" also refer to the process of tacking, zig zagging as you sail into the wind. A vessel that is "loose in stays" could refer to one that is slow and clumsy in coming about while tacking, and thus should be easy for a privateer to catch, that is any privateer aside from the woeful Antelope.
But to catch her took the Antelope two whole days
Privateer chases usually took only hours, such as a typical chase by the Duke of Kent, but sometimes days and obviously in this case, the ragged sails and loose rigging of the Antelope eroded her speed.

Then at length we stood two cables away
That would be 400 yards. (1 cable = 1/10th of a nautical mile or 100 fathoms and 1 fathom = 2 yards)
(How I wish I was in Sherbrooke Now!)
Our cracked four pounders made an awful din
Even a 4 pounder in good condition would be at the edge of its range at that distance and its destructive power would be minimal, so the Antelope's guns would indeed make some nice loud noises but accomplish little of use.
But with one fat ball the Yankee stove us in
Highlighting the chief disadvantage of a 4 pounder! You had to rapidly close in or an enemy with longer range and heavier guns could make a mess of you.

The Antelope shook and pitched on her side
Actually pitching refers an up and down movement. A vessel would roll on its side, but that perhaps is nit-picking.
(How I wish I was in Sherbrooke Now!)
Barrett was smashed like a bowl of eggs
Such a vivid metaphor! And a grimly accurate way to illustrate the carnage of a naval battle which usually resulting from the splinters and wreckage sent flying by enemy shot.
And the main truck carried off both me legs
There are several possibilities here. "Truck" is an old nautical term for a round or cylindrical piece of wood (Falconer's Marine Dictionary - 1780) such as the round cap found at the very top of the mast, in this case the mainmast, hence "main truck" which we can assume came crashing down with great violence as Antelope disintegrates. A truck also refers to the heavy round wheels on the carriages holding a cannon. Eric Ruff curator of the Yarmouth County Museum once discussed this with Stan Rogers, who at first told him that "main truck" meant gun carriage but later took Eric's advice and decided use to use the explanation that it refers to the very top of the mast.
So here I am in my twenty third year
This is very close to the average age for privateer crewmen that I calculated in my MA thesis, based on studies of crew lists.
(How I wish I was in Sherbrooke Now!)
It's been six years since we sailed away
Privateers were treated as POWs and would only be held for the duration of the war, in this case another four years, and often less as prisoner exchanges usually let them return within a year of capture. However one can imagine that this lad was perhaps stranded in perhaps the French Caribbean and spent two years working money and passage to return home.
And I just made Halifax yesterday
Halifax of course being the major British North American port after the loss of the 13 colonies and a logical place for a POW to return.

For a look at sources, have a look at my privateering Reading guide and Bibliography based on my MA Thesis on Canadian Privateering. Thanks for comments and suggestions from Chris Gabbett, Mark Murphy and Jim Roberts among many.

Comments, suggestions or corrections? Drop me a line.
Dan Conlin jacktar@chebucto.ns.ca

Copyright 1997 Dan Conlin
Last Revised January 30, 2001


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 07:34 PM

Very nice, thanks Joe.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Taconicus
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 08:16 PM

I do hope, Joe, that you got permission from Dan Conlin to copy and republish his copyrighted material on the Mudcat website? I'm an intellectual property attorney, and while copyright isn't my specialty, I'm pretty darn sure a wholesale cut & paste of an entire webpage isn't fair use, regardless of the non-profit nature of this site.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 22 July 12:17 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.